Two Northside Piers

WBurg - that's where ours was too...let us know how yor shade hunting goes! Thx.

I recently made an offer for a 1BR C line but they were not willing to give me anything more than a 7% discount whereas the Edge gave me 10.3%. Look, I loved it at 40, 50 is an insult. I just don't understand how they can stay firm on their old prices when they couldn't make a sale when they discounted during the summer. What are they smoking???

I'd assume WburgNYC likes 1NSP because he's buying in 2NSP. Still only 34 closings at The Edge... The latest prudential elliman Q3 report was good for Brooklyn overall, but not ideal for Wburg and Greenpoint... I was expecting the opposite of what was reported; prices went down and purchases went up. Condo market was strong though:
http://assets.prudentialelliman.com/NYCPhotos/retail_reports/Brooklyn_Q3_2010.pdf

salvydicopa I too had a larger discount at The Edge, but even after the discounts comparable units were still ~$100/sqft more at the Edge. Is the difference closer in your case?

Yes, the comparable difference was in fact in favor for the Edge if you include the outdoor deck space. W/O it was only $83 difference in favor of 2NSP. My broker predicted that NSP would stiffen at 5% whereas the Edge would be more negotiable. I'm still baffled as to what makes them think that they can sell it at the old prices now (especially when we are headed into the slow season) when they couldn't sell at the discounted prices over the summer??? Have their lenders cut them some slack where they can afford to wait it out and play chicken with the market?

outdoor square footage is usually multiplied by a factor of 50% and then added to the indoor square footage in a price per sft calculation

Thanks polisson for the tip. According to my adjusted psf calculations, my Edge accepted offer would be cheaper than 2NSP's final counter-offer by about $18.

I googled this as reference: http://matrix.millersamuel.com/?p=8015

as a prospective buyer, is it possible to make simultaneous offers to NSP and the edge and go for the one that accepted the biggest discount? both developments seem to have around 30% of units closed or on contract, am i right? or it's not possible to negotiate simultaneously 2 different units?

notadmin: that's what I did. My broker told me that it's perfectly legal so long as you haven't signed both contracts. You can back out of any offer you make prior to signing a contract because it's considered part of the due diligence process and unlike UCC law where oral contracts are binding, all offer and acceptance must be in writing for any real estate transaction to be binding.

Absolutely. There is no restrictions on making offers. Definitely play one off the other.

My sense is that NSP is getting cocky and has firmed up, at least on the 1 BR "C" line.

love you guys!!!

love you guys!!!

Impressive forum!

SHADES A quick update on yesterday's visit to Modern Decor in Chinatown. To refresh, this was a referral from a few buyers at 1 NSP who were happy with the quality and value pricing. In order to compare apples to apples, I received a quote on my bedroom. I was on sensory overload at Modern Decor, despite asking multiple times for non-synthetic, non-patterned, quality fabrics such as silk or wool, I was shown synthetics, stripes, dots, and fleur-de-lis. An hour and a half later I just accepted that Modern Decor caters to frugal buyers and their inventory demonstrates this, and had them write up a quote on a silk-like polyester, lined with 95% light block, with a sheer. The cost savings amounted to ~$400 for the bedroom. Multiply the savings for the entire apartment it would save me approximately $1400 for the entire unit.

In conclusion, the $1400 spread between buying quality fabric versus synthetic is not sufficiently large enough for me to opt for the more frugal option, even though synthetics offer better pricing, do not fade over time, and clean easier. I have decided to go with The Shade Store.

Looks like this homeboy is trying to flip for a profit-- selling at over $1000/sf--
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/786572

Salvy... Question. Were these two units you are comparing completely apples to apples. Meaning, were they on the same floors with similar or comparable views?

Yes this has been a really helpful forum on so many levels. Really appreciate all the good info and looking forward to being neighbors to those of you taking the big leap.

Also keep in mind that the asking prices PSF at the Edge are slightly higher than NSP. You shouldn't only base your decision based on who is giving the biggest discount percentage wise. If you calculate PSF, NSP may still be a better deal..of course you have to factor in the floor, views, and balcony.

actual square footage is much lower at the edge as well. NSP is at least close to what they advertise.

WBNYC, has the common charges increase in NSP1 after the first year?

thestreet Just as a disclaimer, you should all know that each of the towers will have its own condo association. So, please draw your own conclusion on what I'm about to share with respect to the history of common charge changes in 1NSP, because it may or may not be a guide on the short-, mid-, and longterm stability of common charges in 2NSP.

End 2009 there was a two month suspension of common charges for November and December due to the economy and reserve funds greater than anticipated/needed/planned, and an announcement of an across the board (ATB) 12% decrease starting January, 2010. A month ago, we experienced an increase of ATB 7% a month ago, but this is still 5% below where we started with in 2007-08.

We finally saw the amenities at NSP2, our closing is set in a little over a month. I have to say we were a bit disappointed by the gym (it is quiet small) and lounge... Also we were in and out in less than a minute so we really only got a glimpse of everything. Again, I wouldn't say that NSP's biggest asset is selling you their product... especially once you have already signed the contract!
Does anyone know if there is a bathroom or changing room or lockers by the gym/swimming pool?

WilliamsburgNYC- How is the gym and the amenities in NSP1?

We also went to the open house event the edge had on Sunday. Needless to say that their amenities looked amazing and for a few minutes made us question our decision to by at NSP... that was until we made it to the model units, and then it all made sense again. No doubt the amenities are superior at the Edge but the floor plans at NSP have much nicer layouts and feel so much more open and ultimately that is were we will spend most of our time. The Edge is just too cramped and has so many units on each floor! We also visited Oro, and One Brooklyn Bridge... none of these projects really compare to neither NSP or the Edge, based on finishes, amenities, views or location. We now feel pretty confident we made the right decision :)
Another thought we had by seeing Oro and One Brooklyn Bridge was that it looked like the prices were greatly discounted but the best units were gone already... one is 65% sold, the other almost 50%. I thought I'd share that for those who are waiting for price cuts.

Thanks WBNYC.

Not to get everyone all riled up, but what you all may wish to think about is how the future 2NSP condo board is going to contract to clean the exterior windows of our units, because unless you are spiderman, there is no way for owners to clean their own exterior windows.

This is a big deal in 1NSP because the developer did not place an "easement" on the penthouses, so it is at-will that a penthouse owner will agree for the suspension equipment to be hung from their homes. Imagine, we are now two years living in 1NSP and have only had the windows cleaned once, two years ago; coincidentally, this was only accomplished because at the time the penthouses were unsold and the Sponsor had ownership of those units so it was no issue for them to gain access.

For those of you in contract, I have reviewed the Buyer Plan, and I cannot see an "easement" on the top floor units. This is an area that the Sponsor honestly doesn't seem to want to talk about, or for that matter care about, they think it's the future condo board's and the unit owner's problem to figure out.

Thoughts?

yes, thank you wbnyc for sharing.

FF2010 Amenities are on par with Williamsburg condominiums, and certainly offer more than similar Manhattan condominiums. That being said, I can't wait to use the gym, the pool in 2NSP. At least there are windows in the gym, 1NSP has no windows, just mirrors - very dreary and depressing. I have never used the gym in 1NSP, I can't stand being not being able to see outside when I'm running, or working out. It was always odd to me that in a glass tower with its central design theme being exposed outdoors would have all its amenities completely cacooned in drywall.

Your analysis of unit space and amenity space between The Edge and 2NSP is right on, and many of have drawn the same conclusion that the value is in your home. Size, layout, and design of the homes is heavily weighted, whereas amenities are "nice" to have. Of course, I realize that some may disagree.

Kiz10014 - can you summarize the article? We can't access it.

I was at 2NSP the other day and I actually wondered why everyone was making such a big deal about the gym. I'm not quite sure what people are expecting, but it seems to be one of the better condo complex gyms I've seen (maybe not quite as good as the Edge) and has plenty of equipment to do a good workout. There are about 10-12 cardio machines (treadmills, bikes, ellipticals) with built in TVs, universal machines for all of the various body parts, and a selection of free weights.

Regarding the pool area, yes there are both a men's and women's locker rooms as well as a sauna.

WilliamsburgNYC- Thanks for clarifying amenities at NSP1. If I understand correctly you are saying without the penthouse owners agreement windows cannot be cleaned... Is window cleaning included in the cc/maintenance? I am not sure what can be done about it at this stage... maybe have an additional rider added to the contract? Has anyone tried that at NSP1?

crosby- My complaint for the gym being small has more to do with the lack of space to work out if you do not use machines for your workout, like a yoga room. I honestly was in there so quickly that I didn't even notice what kind of machines were there nor anyone bothered explaining it! Anyhow, thanks for clarifying the there are locker rooms.

FF2010... I see what you are saying now. Funny, there is actually quite a nice yoga room in 1NSP, and I sort of assumed 2NSP would have one too, but I didn't see it. There were a few rooms across the hall from the gym that I did not go in, however.

2NSP has no yoga room. If you ask the sales team, they'll tell you this outright. 1NSP does have the yoga room. There is apparently an outdoor space off of the pool that can be used for yoga, inasmuch as it can be used for anything you like.

I was told by the sales team that 1NSP reduced carrying costs, in part, by switching from twice yearly window cleaning to once per year window cleaning. I was also informed that the carrying charge estimates are based on twice per year cleaning and that the tenants can choose to amend this once they take control of the condo board.

There are locker rooms near the gym and sauna.

People overlook the number of units in the Edge, as compared to 2NSP. The sheer number of units (575? in the Edge versus 270? in 2NSP) necessitates a much larger gym and common area in the Edge.

Potential Edge owners, in my opinion, seem to be younger and more absolute cost oriented than value/cost per square foot oriented. Edge units are cheaper on a total cost basis, however, they're generally smaller units and, in my opinion, poorly laid out and poorly utilize space. I think that these same owners are more likely to use the amenities than NSP owners, and are more likely to abuse the common elements than NSP owners, thus leading to higher maintenance costs for these issues.

Someone recently said that when looking at a condo development, you want a decent gym that you can use in a pinch (new mother with 45 minutes to work out while the baby sleeps; someone trying to get in a quick workout before leaving at 7am for work) but not one that will replace people's gym memberships. I tend to agree with this.

@FF2010 - I tend to disagree about One Brooklyn Bridge Park not being able to compete on building quality, view, and amenities. With the exception of a pool and a sauna, OBBP has more amenities (music room, art room, golf simulator, putting green, etc.) and more well thought out amenities (cardio rooms on multiple floorsnstead of one main gym) than either the Edge or Northside Piers. Location is an issue that everyone has to deal with. Northside Piers and OBBP are each .5 miles from the subway. The Williamsburg developments have more around them, and more things will open around them than will ever open near OBBP. OBBP has the park and the existing schools. If you've got kids, it matters.

Hi everyone, just wondering if anyone locked mortgage rates in the past few days? what were your rates? thanks.

FF2010 Apparently it is about $65-75,000 to do the windows in 1NSP. I'm sure 2NSP will be much more since it has more windows. You are correct, penthouse owners would need to agree. 1NSP was planning biannual window cleanings, but these haven't been completed with the dispute over access to the penthouses. Don't forget, in a penthouse an owner has a humungous terrace from which to clean their own windows so not much motivation to be magnanimous the rest of us on lower floors. Yes, the common charges cover the cleaning of the windows. Unfortunately, at this point the best the condo board can come up with is to try and cajole the penthouse owners to allow access, the board is not seeking any legal remedy.

juuceman Thanks for highlighting the number of units at The Edge and therefore larger amenity space. So true and should be considered when trying to compare the amenity space between the two developments.

Hi, did anyone have issues with the big fissures / natural cracks on 2 NSP kitchen counter tops? It looks look like the san andreas fault. They say it's in a lot of other unit's counters but not sure if I should believe them.

Did anyone receive a credit toward full closing costs? If so, would that mean that ALL settlement charges other than mortgage will be taken care of including attorney fees, mortgage fees and transfer taxes on closing day?
Or are there any surprises?

Crosby - yes, the two units were apple to apple, i.e. 2NSP 1BR C line vs Edge 1BR B line with one floor differential (neglible). You're talking about a 775sq ft unit vs a 688 sq ft unit respectively but I won't beat a dead horse regarding size vs quality and all their differing attributes. I'm sure you are not afraid to engage in some hand to hand combat negotiating with these folks but I found the Edge more relenting whereas 2NSP WOULD NOT BUDGE. Maybe they were insulted by my lowball offer, I dunno. I low-balled both of them, but only one bit. But you have nothing to lose by making a lowball offer so don't be afraid to go there! It's getting awfully close to the holiday season and they gotta show progress to their banks. I love both buildings, they have their pros and cons but essentially cut from the same cloth. If the numbers work, go with the one you love more no?

curious_buyer:

The agreement we signed states that we will be given "credit towards settlement costs for Homeowner's contribution and fees. Credit not to exceed actual closing costs."

It seems very non specific and basically covers anything that we would normally pay for. (We'll see!)

buberry - there is what looks like a crack in our counter top, but there is no actual groove in the stone. I think these lines are part of the natural formation of the stone. I don't think it will actually split.

buberry - our countertop did have a number of lines and dark gray crisscross pattern type of markings. They weren't cracks though, it was smooth and we were told was a part of the natural stone as well. We actually love the differences throughout the stone.

Thanks LookPied.I think Toll seems to clarify the same but it's my attorneys who seem to confuse the issue as a result of which I am still trying to figure out if, besides paying TBI my downpayment, I will have any other checks I may need to write out.
Closing costs as per toll include attorney fees, mortgage fees etc right?

Hi, are the lines and grooves are big as this one?
http://picasaweb.google.com/buberry0/Apt?authkey=Gv1sRgCOPWoJf3l5bZaQ#5529875193072642578

That's not part of the stone, that's a repair job. They better not try that with me, I'll lose it.

Yeah, we complained too but they refuse to do anything about it saying it's a natural fissure and part of the stone and a lot of other apartments have the same thing.

That fissure would seem to make this an inferior grade of a similar product -- whether they can get away with this depends on the contract/offering plan description I would think, which should say something about grade or quality or product.

You can see that it follows part of the natural stone formation; however, the issue is how the stone was either cut/finished, or something that happened during transport. You can practically see silicone bringing the two pieces together! It's completely unacceptable.

All kinds of stones have flaws. The number and magnitude of flaws impact the "quality" of the stone. So for them to say it is naturally ocurring doesn't answer the question whether the flaw falls within the reasonably acceptable quality range as described implicity or explicitly described somewhere in contractual terms. Just my guess -- I think you should ask a decorator what is normal and then a lawyer.

We wrote this on a previous post, but seems worth repeating. We were able to see our unit when it was still in a very rough state, though the master bath seemed to be close to finished. Unfortunately the marble slab on top of the tub was poorly finished. Very poorly. There were random cut marks in the marble. As if they thought about cutting there, but changed their minds half way through. The corners were not squared off (as in the showroom), and there was a seam running perpendicular to the grain of the marble; making it look patched together as if with leftover pieces of marble. We brought it to their attention then, but at the time they didn't seem to care. We'll be sure to see if this was fixed during our walk-thru.

buberry0- Did you notice this issue during your walk-thru?

everything is great except for the kitchentop's grand canyon...but they don't seem to care whatever your concerns are.

in the offering plan it states "***Marble, stone and wood. The marble, stone and wood in your home are products of nature and variations of color, texture and surface smoothness can be expected. All of these products have more pronounced imperfections and veining in their finished surface than others. Buyers acknowledges that they have reviewed the marble, stone and wood samples in the sales center and understand that these variations exist and that there are inherent variations between the different marble, stone and wood selections. Also, the location of seams in the countertops will be determinded by the manufacturer based on length, layout, various options chosen, etc."

well, That sure gives them a huge amount of discretion in what they deliver, so it seems likely you have almost no chance of disputing this topic. My guess is that this was very deliberately written like this to allow them to deliver grade b material....but maybe I am too cynical.

"Hi, are the lines and grooves are big as this one?"

I can't believe people put up with that sort of quality at this price-point. It's stuff like this that gives new construction a [deserved] bad name.

That counter top is completely unacceptable
buberry, have you closed yet or was that noted during walk through
if you have not closed, talk to your lawyer and unequivocally demmand that is replaced before closing or else they will never address. of course they will try to get away with doing as little as possible unless you use the leverage of the purchase
if you have closed-- unlikely they will fix-- live with it or pay yourself to replace

I had my walkthrough yesterday. Likewise, everything was great except for a few cosmetic changes - general cleanup and a few nicks and scratches I wanted taken care of.
As regards the marble, I did notice some of those lines but as noted earlier, they seemed like part of the marble. I agree it would have been a teeny bit nicer without them but ti didn't bother me as much overall.
On the brighter side, it was nice to see thermostat control in both the living and bed room; as well as the main kitchen sink having garbage disposal ability.

Didn't close yet, demanded replacement, they said no. Going to hire outside consultation to assess the slab to see if it's really natural fissure, any potential damage, any grade difference with or w/o fissure. Hope this doesn't happen to anyone else.

Even if it's only cosmetic, that crack would definitely hurt resale... I would look at it and assume a few (3 or 4?) grand to replace it (depending on the size of the slab, and if there are other matching pieces which would be difficult to match). It's not like 2NSP is bargain housing- you're paying a premium to live there.

If it is cosmetic (highly doubtful), then they should not have used this piece because it looks ridiculous. In all the granite counter tops you have seen in other kitchens, have you ever seen a wide fissure extending throughout the span of the stone--I haven't.
Ask them to show you several other units that have this present-- if its a natural part of the stone from this lot, then many other counters should have similar markings.

Our counter and backwall has lines (cracks) but again are smooth and appear to be part of the natural gradient of the stone. The part we were most surprised about on our walk thru was the floor. We thought it was hardwood...but it is "engineered hardwood" which is not a laminate but same concept in that it is layers - it is just layers of all natural wodd materials including plywood. It is beautiful but there was actually a piece where the top layer was splitting off.....so we checked the plan and specs and marketing materials and did some on line research and the terms "engineered hardwood" and "wood" were used and apparently the material they used is in that category. It's just not what I was expecting.

njbuyer- I did some research and though I also thought hardwood floors were better it actually seems to be a good solution for these kinds of apartments considering the sun exposure ( heat) and it's a greener solution. I guess the question would be more of which quality did they go for and how thick is that top layer of hard wood... Could you tell the thickness from that piece that was splitting off?

http://www.hoskinghardwood.com/Hardwood_Floors_7/7/Engineered_Wood_Floors.aspx

http://www.builddirect.com/Engineered-Hardwood-Floors/Engineered-Hardwood-Flooring-FAQ_8804.aspx#Whatisthedifferencebetweenalaminate,solidhardwoodandanengineeredhardwoodfloor

http://homerenovations.about.com/od/floors/a/artengineerflr.htm

Thanks FF2010 the spec Adam sent to our attorney at our request shows 3/8 inch here is the link:

http://www.armstrong.com/flooring/hardwood/autumn-brown-walnut-5-in-engineerd-haardwood-wide-plank-EWT30LG/floor-103661.asp

Holy smokes buberry - I fully agree with everything said here: that crack is ridiculous, regardless of the language in the contract. I disagree that they can get away with this. Putting down in a contract that they're going to rip you off doesn't make it legal for them to do so. I'd go to war with them over this. I mean, it's just so obvious that this is not what a buyer should reasonably expect in an apartment with this price tag.

I'm also concerned about the issue with the hardwood raised above. The point about real hardwood floors of course is that you want to be able te re-sand and re-finish a couple of years down the road. That doesn't work with the engineered stuff.

This kind of stuff makes me nervous that what your seeing is just the tip of the iceberg. If they try to pass off that counter when it is so obviously substandard, imagine what you can't see.

That walnut seems like a relatively soft wood, especially for high traffic areas, kids etc

That walnut seems like a relatively soft wood, especially for high traffic areas, kids etc

Just heard that TB have a policy to NOT allow independent inspections. But we can get it inspect the slab after we close. I've asked where does it state that in the offering plan. They have to get back to me about that.

Just heard that TB have a policy to NOT allow independent inspections. But we can get it inspect the slab after we close. I've asked where does it state that in the offering plan. They have to get back to me about that.

On the counter top: it's definitely defective. You shouldn't close before they have it replaced. Otherwise grease will soak in from the crack easily. Besides, the crack is very ugly and it's a major crack.

On the floor - we have not bought at NSP2 but we went to the open house twice - their floor is definitely engineered walnut. We currently have regular walnut at home, and honestly speaking, the look is much nicer and different than what NSP2 has. I noticed the hardwood right away, and then I was a little taken back by the finishes at NSP2. (Not that the Edge was much better....they used Oak...real hardwood but not as nice looking or durable as walnut...)

We noticed very different level of finishes b/w older developments (pre crisis) and newer developments (during and after the crisis). Unfortunately the Edge and NSP2 are both products that were "downgraded" during the crisis. Don't get me wrong: they are definitely very nice, but they are not as nice as they were originally designed to be.

Have to disagree with you on the downgrading of "Edge", caffeine. Everything was finished exactly according to the initial specs. The floors are 3/4" hardwood, and I have not heard of any issues with the countertops. Yes, they used white oak, which is a traditional, high quality material for floors, and also sustainable. I'd say it's a matter of preference if one prefers the darker walnut or the lighter colored oak. If I had the choice, I'd probably go with the real thing, though (either way).

It is my understanding that oak was used at the Edge for LEED certification purposes.

bubbery0 From the one pic you linked I still think that the slab was likely in good condition and either broke apart during delivery or installation. To test that theory: you can see from the location of the crack that it's close to the sink, which means you can open up the cupboards and pull out any draws in the way and with a flash light inspect the slab from the bottom. I think you'll find the same identical crack on the bottom and therein lies the proof that it's not a "natural" variation of the stone, but rather a manmade break in a beautiful piece of stone either as a result of improper transportation or improper installation...

Can you at least request another look before closing? Have you completed the second walk-thru? Maybe that's that chance to do it. Hang in there, you can see that all your future neighbors are here to support you!

I'm having my walk through today. Does anybody have any advice about what I should look for besides the issues with the counter top and floors?

WilliamsburgNYC - did 1NSP also have engineered hardwood floors?

Bigfatphil- I would suggest that you pay close attention to the bathroom finishes. In particular the master bath and marble top of the tub. You will definitely notice that the tiles in both bathrooms have been reduced. They are certainly not "wrapped in floor-to-ceiling tile" like they describe on their site or like the model in the sales office.

bigfatphil here are some punch lists:
http://www.frontporchllc.com/2006/09/im-doing-my-first-walk-through-what-should-i-look-for/
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/3069-punch-list-checklist-or-guide?comment_id=28936
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/21998-final-walk-through

and then check the issues people have mentioned here; floor, bathroom tiles, countertops...
As for the marble top itself, worst case scenario your lawyer should be able to get your deposit back as that is clearly not in acceptable or as advertised condition. To verify if the marble was cracked just check the bottom for a similar break. Or assuming they used some form of epoxy to bond the pieces, I don't recommend this but you can try burning the crack (from the bottom) to see if it smokes or gives off a funky smell.

phil-- personally i recommend using a home inspector-- some say its a waste of money for a new condo, bec the expensive things like roof and mechanicals are not the focus. but in my opinion the few hundred $ you spend is a drop in the bucket compared to the purchase. the inspector will find things that you may not see. from this discussion it sounds like the builder is being completely unreasonable so he may not fix you punch list items anyway, but if they are not inventoried before close you can definitely forget about. search discussion boards for rec on a good inspector

if you are going to go yourself-- concentrate on expensive stuff-- floors, masonry, counters, windows, plumbing, electrical, appliances

no independent home inspection allowed with Toll Brothers. That's why I can't bring an expert to inspect the marble.

The crack doesn't reach the bottom and it ends just 1 centimeter away end of the counter. They pointed that out to me showing that's why it's naturally cracked and that maybe eventually I should learn to love it and even put stuff over it to cover it.

lawyer advice it's a big gamble and may lose our deposit if go to arbitration, etc.

I hope this doesn't happen to anyone else.

Rembrandt. Yup, 1NSP also has engineered hardwood, maple. My recommendation for everyone is to take the following steps at move-in: 1. Instruct movers that they cannot enter the unit with moving equipment such as a dolly or cart, the reason being is that the equipment comes in from the outdoors and picks up all sorts of debris in the wheels which will mark up your floors. 2. At inspection ask Mark to have masonite relaid wherever you anticipate the greatest traffic area to minimize any accidental drop, scrape, or ding to the hardwood. 3. Have floor-savers from Bed Bath Beyond or Home Depot on hand for all your furniture so it can easily be slid from place to place by the movers...

As much as we would like to have confidence that folks employ common sense, in my experience be prepared for movers to use little to no common sense when it comes to maintaining your walls and floors in brand new condition.

buberry0- Sorry to hear that! It's really messed up, anyone with any aesthetic sense could tell you that's not acceptable, naturally cracked or not. If I were you I would get the info of the supplier and see if you can work something out with them... I know it's a long shot but at least make sure you can match the piece should you decide to replace it. I hope everything else looks good!

Inspection tip: Also pay very close attention to the porcelain in the tub. It's a white tub so very difficult to notice things like chips. This can be fixed, but not if you don't point it out when doing your walk thru. The chips in the porcelain are very frequent from construction when the team drops heavy objects in the tub...

They don't allow you to bring a home inspector? say what? that's ridiculous/not enforceable. did your lawyer point that out to you? has everyone else (tower 1) abided by this.

Back to the floors - Skir - according to what I read you actually can refinish the engineered hardwood....and it has a 25 year warranty. And it supposedly is constructed to withstand high traffic areas.

It's common in new developments to have engineered hardwood floors. I can't think of any that I've seen that didn't. Either way the floors look great and they can be refinished many times if you ever choose to.

polisson, oak is cheaper than walnut. Don't take sales' words as truth. Have some independent thinking. I don't think that Oak or Engineered floor is really an issue, as long as the price is right.

yes you can refinish. but for very limited times.

Home Inspections: During the walk-thru process at 1NSP, buyers were able to bring a whole entourage with them. I had a friend, as well as a real estate agent from Developer's Group, just to be sure I had six pairs of eyes to look at everything...

Maybe it was this sort of activity in 1NSP that ruined it for 2NSP...

There were 4 of us on Monday for our walk thru. It just wasn't a "formal" inspection. I'm not sure how they can forbid you from bringing an expert with on a walk thru.

Has anyone locked rates with TBI recently? We locked a couple of weeks ago at 4.25%. Wondering if the rate has dropped since then.

A tip for walk thrus: our broker (who is a good one) offered to join us on the walk thru and to make sure they fulfill the items on our punch list. If you worked with one, you can ask him/her to join. I'm sure they would know what to look for.

Ilovebrooklyn 10 year treasury rates are up from 2 weeks ago and TBI told me that is the driver....

Williamsburg. Just did my walk through and the tub is not porcelain. It's fiberglass. Was a little underwhelmed by that. I guess NSP1 had real porcelain tubs. Anyway, apt in relatively good shape, but watch out for scratches everywhere. Stainless sink. Cabinets. Refrigerator door. You name it. As far as the counters, they ain't budging. Anything else, they were amenable to. Also ran the hot water for 30 minutes and it never got hot. They claimed when more people move in it will be normal. We'll see. Apparently there is one occupant so far.

Caffeine, maybe you could use some independent thinking yourself. It's a bit ridiculous that you seem to equate "more expensive" with "better".

But if you insist.... : 3/4" real hardwood floors in oak are more expensive than 3/8" engineered walnut floors:

- real oak:
http://www.lumberliquidators.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=1539&categoryId=5&sectionId=1&subCategoryId=52

- engineered walnut:
http://www.lumberliquidators.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=3126&nsa=1

But anyway, the difference in price will probably amount to something like 0.1% of the purchase price for these apartments, so I highly doubt that price is really the main driver behind the choice of material here.

I still say that the walnut vs oak question is a matter of preference. I personally think both are beautiful, but some people may prefer darker and some people may prefer lighter colored floors. And as was pointed out before, "Edge" chose a sustainably harvested material.

bigfatphil Woah, you serious. They're porcelain in 1NSP, it never occurred to me that they might be anything but in 2NSP. Now I need to go and review the Buyer Plan to see if it can shed some light. Fiberglass tub! That's just dumb.

Does anyone recommend a lawyer that they loved and used for NSP2? Also any ideas for mortgage companies other then TBI for jumbo loans?

Shahvi23, I would recommend our lawyer...I don't love him on a personal level, but that doesn't matter because he is very responsive and gets the job done. If you send me your email I can pass his contact info.

I wouldn't rely on your broker to help you identify deficiencies during the walk through-- he/she is motivated/rewarded to get the deal done and remove any obtacles to doing so. It is not in their interest to help you create a laundry list of things to get fixed. Unless this broker happens to be a personal friend or someone that would be motivated to look out for your interest over his own.

Understandable - that is why the key word is 'good' broker. She will not note things like the counter top marble or flooring that NSP will not budge on. But chances are, she would notice things that our untrained eyes wouldn't and that could be easily handled by NSP. Smart brokers want to at least look like they are acting in your interest (hence getting you concessions that you know are probably small) so that they could recommended to others.

understand, but that is a compromise on your part, its a big investment, and i'm less concerned with what the builder wants or doesn't want to be fixed. If I signed a contract for a newly constructed condo, there must not be substandard construction. I don't really care what the selling agent says. You have paid a deposit, they need you to close, so you still have leverage.
That being said, there are some things, that you might be better off accepting as less than perfect, bec sometimes in the process of trying to achieve perfection you cause yourself a lot of headache and get nowhere.

Re: Fiberglass tubs. Yes, those beautiful sunken tubs are nothing but a cheap mold inset into nice marble trim. Such a damn shame. Take a good look at those tubs in the walkthough. Mine were all scratched up on the bottom from the workers. They didn't seem to object to my concerns and said that they would take care of it. Not sure if that means new tub or what, but it's worth noting. Also look at the floor, one board at a time. There are plenty of scratches and they seem willing to replace boards as noted. Run your hands over the cabinet surfaces carefully. We noted several scratches and they agreed to swap out cabinet doors that were damaged. Once you move in, it's on you.

polisson, please. I was comparing hardwood walnut with hardwood oak. Okay? Do you work with the Edge or something?

Sorry that your counter top is faulty bubbery. Give 'em hell! Just wanted to show you some support.

I googled the tub spec and they run over $3k per tub....that doesn't seem to me to be a cheap mold inset....anyone else have a view of that. This is what I found:

http://www.qualitybath.com/product~name~Alcove%2BFlory%2Bde%2BColt%2B7766KA~ID~78736.htm

njbuyer/bigfatphil: Thanks for the specs on our bathtubs. My bad for confusing the topic with porcelain, all this time it seemed like porcelain so I never questioned it. The tubs in 1NSP are acrylic, as in 2NSP. From the write-up, and info available on acrylic, this does not appear to be substandard or a el-cheap-o option, but does chip and scratch. From literature it's not necessarily fiberglass, the acrylic can be reinforced with fiberglass, but fiberglass is one possible reinforcement, there are others...

caffeine, even 3/4" hardwood walnut is not necessarily more expensive than 3/4" hardwood oak.

Oak:
http://www.lumberliquidators.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=1539&categoryId=5&sectionId=1&subCategoryId=52

Walnut:
http://www.lumberliquidators.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=2051&nsa=1

But my point was that oak wasn't chosen to cut costs. They might as well have gone with engineered walnut over oak hardwood and saved money.

It's just weird that you seem to think walnut is the only acceptable choice for a high quality floor. This may be your personal preference, but others may have a different preference.

And my job has nothing to do with real estate (this "you're a broker" is so lame, btw). But let me guess where you work: it's a lumber company cutting down trees in Brazil, eh?