chasing the market down: our favorite price choppers

250 West 82nd #33:
Had one contract fall through already; probably about due for another reduction.
10/11/2007 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $3,900,000
01/31/2008 Price decreased to $3,450,000
03/08/2008 Price decreased to $2,995,000
04/19/2008 Price decreased to $2,750,000
08/07/2008 Price decreased to $2,550,000

240 West 102nd #63:
11/26/2007 Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $2,500,000
01/15/2008 Price decreased to $2,195,000
03/31/2008 Price decreased to $1,995,000
07/22/2008 Price decreased to $1,795,000
10/14/2008 Price decreased to $1,595,000
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/155661-coop-240-west-102nd-street-upper-west-side-new-york

crescent, why do you say 155 E. 76th is a good deal? $900K for a decent-size 1-bedroom coop on UES? Tons of cheaper 1-bedrooms, a fair amount of cheaper junior 4's, and there are some real 2-bedrooms for around the same price.

The listed square footage is a joke, I would say it's 900SF at best.

I've seen the place - nicely renovated. Maintenance ratio is low at 1.3x. Maybe I'm warped on my price perception because I've been looking at almost entirely 2 & 3 bedrooms.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/348513-coop-23-west-73rd-street-upper-west-side-new-york

Priced to start at a 60% premium to the 2004 sale. A 20k cut from $799k to $779k is cute. Given the timidity, I'm thinking the property will either chase the market down (with cuts too small, continuing to overprice the property) or just sit and sit and sit.

omg it's tiny

Love this one! All this in less than two months!! For a 2-br it's starting to look pretty reasonable.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/347697-coop-500-west-111th-street-morningside-heights-new-york

Riv_Drive, this must be a (pre-)distressed sale. I, however, still feel it is overpriced.

Agreed- you could probably get it for closer to 600. Maybe I'll make a low ball offer and see what happens.

That apartment at 500 W 111th is listed at 1050 sq ft but it's 750 at best. If you add up all the areas whose size is specified in the floor plan it comes up to 648. The hallway and bath would add 100 at most. How on earth somebody thought you could list a tiny thing in Morningside Hts. for over a million bucks 45 days ago, baffling.

In terms of 'favorite' listings, this one has intrigued me because I thought it was and is still ridiculous. Don't know if this one was picked up yet: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/339738-coop-61-west-9th-street-greenwich-village-new-york?email=true

06/16/2008 Previously listed in StreetEasy by Elliman for $995,000
08/07/2008 Elliman listing unavailable at $1,195,000
08/12/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $1,045,000
08/18/2008 Price decreased to $995,000
09/13/2008 Price decreased to $940,000
10/17/2008 Price decreased to $895,000
10/23/2008 Price decreased to $799,000

5 price cuts since the early August increase. It's now 33% from it's peak asking price and 20% from its original listing in May. I'm not an insider (as I'm no longer considering a purchase) so I can't see what is sold for in March 2007. However, the asking price at that time was $705,000. 3E sold in the same month when the asking price was $695,000. 4E sold for $975k in October 2007. While they are the same line 3E's square footage is listed as 645 and 4E's is 750. Could be broker inflation, as I don't know that I would come to even 645 square feet for 8E (maybe closer to 600?). So, the asking price per square foot is still somewhere in the range of $1,240-1,330 at 600-645 square feet, with monthly maintenance at $2 per square foot.

jaspernonbeliever,
Re: 61 W 9th 8E
03/05/2007 - Previous sale closed for $665,000

02/23/2008
Previously listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property for $8,995,000
10/24/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $4,850,000

zizizi, even that near 50% discount is still not good enough.

A couple more:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/300813-coop-111-east-85th-street-upper-east-side-new-york
4 price chops totaling 25% in 4 months (from $1.995MM to $1.495MM). Really messy layout, but almost tempting...

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/346072-coop-320-east-83rd-street-yorkville-new-york
Started at $1.595MM in February, down to $1.05MM. 34% in total chops.

We have two clear and distinct threads. 1)price choppers. When(i.e. if) there is a sale post on comps. 2)When there is a reduction post on chasing. Not so say anybody has done anything wrong just want to keep my threads straight.

Can this be true? The recorded sale price seems impossible.
STREETEASY HISTORY
05/24/2007
Previous sale closed for $6,600,000
11/10/2007
Previously listed in StreetEasy by Elliman for $4,950,000
07/22/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Vandenberg at $4,850,000
08/12/2008
Elliman listing unavailable at $4,950,000
10/23/2008
Price decreased to $4,350,000

hooboy! 9th floor Classic 7 on the market for $1.975 (after multiple cuts) while the 3rd floor, same line, is under contract with a final asking price of $2.350 million. I hope those poor souls who bought 3B can get themselves turned down by the coop board.

490 West End 9B

STREETEASY HISTORY
06/07/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,450,000
08/16/2008
Price decreased to $2,425,000
09/09/2008
Price decreased to $2,387,500
10/19/2008
Price decreased to $2,125,000
10/25/2008
Price decreased to $1,975,000

Active Listings (1)
↓ $1,975,000
490 West End Avenue #9B 3 beds

SAVE Listings in Contract (2)
$2,350,000
490 West End Avenue #3B 3 beds

happyrenter, what is the listing for the $4,350,000 unit?

dmeisterg: Here's the Vandenberg listing: http://www.townhouseexperts.com/PropertyDetail2.asp?area=new&listing=228
The Elliman listing looks like a different building: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/153043-multi-21-downing-street-greenwich-village-new-york

happyrenter: 490 WEA #9B represents something of a breakthrough for a prime classic seven on that stretch of West End, though the footprint of that particular line isn't especially generous. I don't know what the contract price on #3B is; the apartment is vacant, so the $2.35MM ask may have been quite negotiable. Hard to imagine that it sold much below $2MM. Also, #3B was a wreck; at least #9B looks habitable. So if it keeps dropping, a whole class of apartments might be headed for drastic repricing, and all the $1.75MM classic sixes in the next category down could get squeezed too.

965 Fifth Avenue:

StreetEasy History

02/08/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's at $5,500,000
05/09/2008
Price decreased to $5,250,000
07/03/2008
Price decreased to $4,950,000
10/20/2008
Price decreased to $3,750,000
10/23/2008
Price increased to $4,750,000
10/24/2008
Price decreased to $3,750,000

West 81st, they are definitely the same building. The Elliman piccture is from the back. Sorry I left out the link originally.

I agree about 490 WEA. Because the living room and dining room are so small and have to be combined to make one decent room it is more like a classic six than a seven in a way. Even so, in that location, in that building, on that floor, the downward movement is quite remarkable.

I wonder if 45 Christopher will have a similar impact on the village (prewar doorman open view 3 bedroom condo just reduced to 2.6), driving down the inferior Gold Coast area apartments (37 West 12th, 33 5th, 51 5th, 11 5th, etc.).

A quick call-out to poster "Curiously": 15 West 84th #2A was just cut to $1.99MM.
http://www.bhsusa.com/detail.aspx?id=958318
Time to go in for the kill?

happyrenter: Thanks for the clarification on 21 Downing. Re. 490 WEA, the dining room in the original "B" floorplan is adequate. The living room is more of a Victorian parlor, but I think it can be explanded by opening it to the foyer rather than the dining room. Matter of personal preference, really.

Thanks!...we'll see, but my budget is still less than that and with this price cut, now it seems almost priced to sell as it is down 30% from original ask and even in todays reality it's probably worth 2MM...So I may have moved on and will likely settle for a nice smaller classic 6.

Unless I'm looking at the wrong unit, 15 West 84th has only been reduced 15% from the original ask. I don't support using reductions to gauge value (comps, comps, comps) but let's get the numbers right. 15 W. 84th may not be an easy apartment to sell--I sort of dig the layout, but it's not at all classic, and it's a second floor apartment. I would not give up on it by a long shot.

it started at 2.85MM way back when

2.85 is nowhere on streeteasy. Do you know what brokerage had the listing at that price?

I still think you could have a shot for well under 2 million. Why not give it a shot?

happyrenter: #2A moved from Halstead to BHS after the first couple of price cuts. StreetEasy doesn't always match up previous listings with current ones. In this case, the matching algorithm failed. I agree with your bigger point, though: dropping below $2MM may not be good enough, especially if they want a quick sale.

Thanks for the boost, as I guess in this market, you never know. Stribling had it first.

Here's a nice chop:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/345759-coop-215-east-72nd-street-upper-east-side-new-york

Previously sold for 3.675 in early 2006. From the description it sounds like it has been renovated during the intervening years, which means it is being sold at a substantial loss.

Nonetheless, I think it is still massively overpriced and I'm afraid these sellers are going to lose their shirts. I just think most people buying $4 million family apartments don't want to live between 2nd and 3rd on 72nd street (loud, busy, commercial, far from the park).

Curiously: Right - Stribling, not Halstead. I always confuse those two. Must be the fake-sounding WASP names.

19% at the Dakota...

http://curbed.com/archives/2008/10/30/morning_massacre_dakota_stares_down_chupi_blinks.php#more

A-Rod 11% Park Avenue Chop...

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10302008/realestate/a_rental_135893.htm

Also notice 21x buy to rent...

The Dakota is the Dakota, and it is unquestionably fabulous. But $20 million for a 9 room back (ie no view) apartment? I don't see that happening.

I know the Dakota is amazing and all...but I remember in 2002 an estate sale in that same line languished on the market for months before selling for 6MM. It was listed through BHS I think.

That's right xellam. And the listing is a bit strange. This was originally a 14 room apartment? I've looked at that floor plan and whatever way you slice it up you can't get to 14 rooms.

I can't see 14 rooms either, even with the original floorplan. They've completely changed the service wing and taken out 2 maids rooms and a bathroom, combinging them into the eat-in kitchen.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/68429-condo-300-east-62nd-street-lenox-hill-new-york

I mentioned this one on this thread two weeks ago. Another $100K chopped off. It's been on the market since February 2007, I've been keeping an eye on it since December 2007. With any luck, after a few more $100K chops, I'll buy it for $1.6MM in 2010.

Here's one...Large Classic 7 in a prime pre-war building on West End Ave...

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/329222-coop-277-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

If this apartment is in decent shape, $2.495 seems like 2002 pricing!

mrsblogs: The exact same apartment on the 12th floor (#12MC) sold for $2.2MM this summer. It was an estate-sale wreck that needed everything, but the floors were in pretty good shape (covered with carpet for decades). #6C is cleaner, and habitable as-is, but the buyer might wind up spending a comparable amount on renovations. The kitchen and bathrooms there show their age, and the floorplan is original.

The intractable problem with the "C" line is the view of Schwab House. It's pretty bad on 12, and it's likely even worse on 6.

Agreed West 81st. A north-facing apartment on the 6th floor looking out across a narrow street at an unyielding, boring, post-war brick wall is just not what most buyers of a Classic 7 are looking for.

west81st and happyrenter: what do you think is a fair price today for such a unit?

hrdnitlr: It's hard to say what a "fair" price is for anything, with so many extreme conditions stressing the market all at once. Based on the high-floor 2008 comp and recent trends, I think something between $1.75 and $2MM is easy to defend.

I just wouldn't buy that apartment, quite frankly. The apartment must get no light and has a boring, oppressive, totally closed view. I would much, much prefer a smaller apartment such as the Classic 7 at 490 West End or the Classic Six on the park block at 75th Street. That said, if someone absolutely loves this location and needs four bedrooms, maybe $1.85 million. But I just don't think it's a good apartment.

I thought that these two apartments were quite comparable in terms of space and location, but offered at very different prices. Do you have any more information on them, West81st? 277WEA Is being advertised as a 3Br/2Bath, whereas 270 WEA is being advertised as a 4Br. According to the floorplans, they both seem to have 3BR, 3 bathrooms plus a small maid's room behind the kitchen. They are both co-ops along WEA's "Gold Coast" in full-service pre-war buildings...

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/329222-coop-277-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/349511-coop-270-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

Our old friend at 15 West 84th st just got another price chop:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/355041-coop-15-west-84th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

Started at $2,850,000 back in March and it's down to $1,999,000 as of 2 hours ago (10/31). This latest broker is not messing around. The old broker took 6 months to chop $500k off the price. The new one has chopped $300k off the asking price in 4 weeks.

aptometrists, look at maintenance, $2k/month.

for a family with $2M to spend, why not wait and buy a brownstone? they are so much more efficient in terms of taxes and maintenance.

mrsblogs I was about to post the same comparison between 270 and 277 west end. It looks so similar. Have anyone seen them both to compare? I saw apt in 277 which sold for 2.2 and I think it was in very bad condition. West 81st gave a great write up as always on it in May and later on the actual closing price. I just do not know if it being an estate sale is a fair comparison. I think estate sales can really mess up the comps. Also 2.5M for a place this size does not seem bad and I think it is much bigger and better apt than 490 west end.

Bela and mrsblogs: the apartment looks north into a huge postwar buildling--it is just the worst view you could imagine. why would you choose to live like that?

happyrenter I think we are going back to the topic of sq footage vs.view and that is just a matter of opinion

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/realestate/02deal2.html?ref=realestate

Interesting article about slashing the price of Brooke Astor's co-op by 26%. Regardless of whether it was/still is overpriced, there is an interesting quote that indicates that multiple small price cuts can do more harm to sellers than good...

[Leighton Candler, the broker at the Corcoran Group who has the listing, said the price was marked down to address the lack of confidence and uncertainty in the marketplace. “We didn’t want buyers to say, ‘Let’s wait until it goes down more,’ ” she said. “We didn’t want them to guess how low we can go.”

Instead, she said the price cut amounted to “a double discount,” including both the smaller price cut the sellers would normally make about now, and the larger one they might make next spring if the apartment had not sold.]

Bela - A bit of additional color on 277 WEA #6C: I can confirm that it is in original condition, other than some 1970s decor and kitchen fixtures that the buyer will certainly replace. The floorplan is unaltered. Essentially, it's the same property as #12MC, in slightly better condition but needing just about everything that #12MC did, six floors lower. Unlike #12MC, which got some light and a tiny glimpse of the river, #6C's view is all Schwab House, all the time. Also, for reasons I won't get into here, I don't there's more than 5-10% of negotiating room left in the price after the big recent reduction.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/164090-coop-221-west-82nd-street-upper-west-side-new-york
has this one been mentioned? 1.76 to 1.195. Nice sunny 2 br (needs work though)

stanco88: That's a perennial StreetEasy favorite:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/4873-nice-drop-

Another emerging trend: the musical-chairs price-chopper. As properties linger on the market for 6-12 months, a higher proportion of the new listings seem to be retreads from other brokerages. A few fresh - or rather, stale - examples from the UWS:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/364312-coop-239-central-park-west-upper-west-side-new-york (Elliman to Rand)

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/364276-coop-755-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york (Elliman to
Corcoran)

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/364216-coop-320-central-park-west-upper-west-side-new-york (Corcoran to BHS)

$2.1MM for a 1900 SF 3-bedroom on CPW and 84th?! Really?! Does CPW not command as much of a premium as it used to, or is this seller that desperate? Or are views the problem? Or what am I missing?

Along the same lines as West81st mentions: This 2 bed 2 bath p-w coop dropped to $1,350,000 when listed at Sotheby's through this fall. It was just relisted with Elliman at $995,000.

Old Sotheby's Listing:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/194996-coop-151-e-83rd-st-upper-east-side-new-york

Elliman:
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=963458&rentalperiod=&SearchType=quick&Region=NYC

And it's still overpriced.

newbuyer: I saw the apartment and am not surprised it didnt sell despite multiple price cuts.
Positives: the layout is decent, the building and location are outstanding
Negatives: Every single window faces a wall. Absolutely dreary. Oh yeah and the bedrooms face a courtyard which includes a school playground. Also the place needs updating.

P.S.
The same line on the 14th floor which sold for 3mm+ was in no way comparable. Better layout, great light, and a wonderful new renovation.

newbuyer99: bfgross is right about the views from #4C. You may also have a point about the sellers' motivation level, since the apartment now appears to be vacant. But if they really want to sell, $2.1MM probably won't do it. I think buyers in that price range have better options now.

Regarding the need for updating, there's a question of degree and urgency. The apartment is in decent condition, but it's pretty quirky - starting with the weird green cooking island in the kitchen. Anyway, you can see the Elliman panoramics here: http://tours.vht.com/Viewer/360Scenes.aspx?ListingID=1130723

Thanks, bfgross and West81st. I am so used to seeing huge premiums for CPW (like the $3MM similar line on 14th floor you refer to), but I can see how facing walls everywhere almost defeats the purpose of living right by the park. Makes sense.

Anyone have a similar thread about drastic price drops in the Hamptons??

2109 Broadway (the Ansonia) - large (but 3 rooms) prewar 1BR condo. This property has had a series of 25k and 50k cuts to come down from the original $1.3M asking to the current $1.05m. Still seems like it may be a tough sell at that price in this market for a variety of reasons (e.g., reduced interest from foreign buyers, reduced interest from wealthy out of towners looking for a pied-a-terre, still priced at a huge premium to coops while buyer is unlikely to be able to take advantage of more liberal financing restrictions).

06/12/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $1,295,000
07/31/2008 Price decreased to $1,250,000
08/27/2008 Price decreased to $1,225,000
09/09/2008 Price decreased to $1,215,000
09/25/2008 Price decreased to $1,150,000
10/03/2008 Price decreased to $1,125,000
10/10/2008 Price decreased to $1,095,000
11/09/2008 Price decreased to $1,049,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/292793-condo-2109-broadway-upper-west-side-new-york

151 East 83rd, 5D
03/20/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's at $1,675,000
04/30/2008 Price decreased to $1,495,000
06/20/2008 Price decreased to $1,395,000
09/22/2008 Price decreased to $1,350,000
10/29/2008 Sotheby's listing no longer available
11/09/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $995,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/194996-coop-151-e-83rd-st-upper-east-side-new-york

West 81st, have you seen 240 West 102nd #63?

What do you think its worth?

John Doe:

That is quite a breathtaking price chop and a nice find since streeteasy is not showing it for some reason. But you left out the most interesting information: the comps.

10/17/2007 #1D $900,000 -5.3%
08/23/2005 #2D $950,000
06/16/2004 #3D $1,150,000

This is a legitimately nice two bedroom apartment in a good building in a prime location. This apartment is now asking 13% less than 3D sold for in 2004--and with a back-facing apartment like this, those two floors probably make a big difference. If this apartment fails to sell quickly at this price, there is an entire universe of Upper East Side two bedrooms that will need big chops to generate any interest at all.

I am a major bear for Manhattan real estate, but this surprises even me. You could get this apartment for not much more than the first floor unit sold for last year, just amazing.

samnyc: Yes. I wrote it up when it was still at $1.795MM:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/5265-open-house-reports-uws-92308-92508
For reasons we discussed on that thread, it's a very difficult unit to price.

Happyrenter and JohnDoe, at first glance the situation between 181 East 83rd 5D and its comps looks unusual, to say the least. In my experience, most NYC apts. gained 25 to 30% between 2004 and 2007. I just find it very hard to believe that 1D, which closed for 900K in 2007 was a true and accurate comp of 3D, if it's true that 3D closed for 1,150,000 in 2004. Doesn't make any sense. The normal curve would have put 1D at least at 1,300,000 in 2007.

Happyrenter, JohnDoe & Trompiloco: Do you think the high maintenance for this apt. is making the buyer pool for this type unit almost zero? I am looking for a 2br, 2 bath, would prefer to be on the UWS, but would consider this apt. on E.83rd if the maintenance were less than $1,600. With increases coming in the next few years, you could potentially be paying $2,400 in maint. for what looks to be approx. 1,000 - 1,100 sq. ft.?

What do you think about this one now?
170 East 79th Street #56A in Upper East Side
I saw it a few weeks ago and was waiting for a price reduction which just happened yesterday.
What do you think it's worth?
Do you think it's crazy to offer around $2M?
I think it's smaller than what they quote. It might be around 1850f2

Trompiloco--I think the comps between 1D and 3D between 2004 and 2007 look entirely accurate. There is a big--BIG--difference between a 5th floor apartment or a 3rd floor apartment and 1st flood apartment. That is, 1D is a much less valuable apartment, but in the same building and with the same floorplan. I don't understand why you would expect a first floor apartment to sell at no discount to the 3rd floor.

Margategirl--I think you should reconsider. If you think the maintenance is too high on the apartment (and I agree that it is high) then you should simply factor that into your purchase price. Let me be clear: I would not buy this apartment right now at this price. But relative to comparable apartments on the market right now it is undoubtedly very reasonable and represents what may be an acceleration of downward price movements.

One other thing: that apartment looks to be 1200 square feet or more. Am I wrong?

Sanba: I think you should give those sellers a bit of time to come to their senses. You could offer $2 now, but even that might be overpaying. At a minimum do not offer anywhere CLOSE to the asking price, that's not in the realm of reasonable.

Happyrenter, granted what you say about 3rd and 1st floor, but the sale of 3D for 1,150,000 in 2004 just doesn't fit. An apt. in a higher floor, 5D, is now listed way below at 995K?

Trompiloco--what doesn't fit? Prices are declining. I guess you say it 'doesn't fit' because you have a theory that prices aren't going down. But is it not the case that theories are supposed to fit fact, rather than facts fitting theories? We have a set of facts here. This apartment was originally put on the market for 1.675 million, which was evidently over-optimistic, but was surely in part based on the comp of the 3rd floor unit in the same line. The owners have since lowered the price 40%, over time, so that it is now offered for 12% less than the 3rd floor unit.

Explain to me what doesn't fit?

Happy renter: Thanks. I was thinking about offering $2M. I'm visiting the apartment these week again to see a few details. Let's see what happens.

happyrenter, I am kind of with trompiloco here. The pattern looks weird to me. I understand that there is a significant discount for a first-floor apartment, don't know just how significant. But why did 2D sell for $200K less than 3D more than a year later, when the market was sprinting up? Further, while prices are certainly declining in a lot of cases, being 13-14% below 2004 comps (or more, if it sells below ask) on a lower floor seems pretty extreme this quickly.

In other words, that 2004 3D sale just seems off. No idea what the explanation might be.

203 West 90th PHG
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/166487-condo-203-west-90th-street-upper-west-side-new-york
StreetEasy History
01/14/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Stribling at $2,500,000
03/06/2008 Price decreased to $2,295,000
09/17/2008 Price decreased to $1,895,000
11/12/2008 Price decreased to $1,649,000

The latest cut on this UWS penthouse surprised me a bit. The 36% drop from the original ask isn't the interesting part. What struck me is that the ask is now less than 4% above the price at which the sponsor offered it... in 2002.
http://www.margaretbassett.com/mtc/price.html

The apartment actually closed in 2003 for $1.35MM:
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/Detail?Doc_ID=2003052800235001
So it still has to fall another 18% or so to mark a true return to 2002-2003 pricing. But still, the new price seems remarkable (and the original $2.5MM ask not so unreasonable) when you consider that in early 2007, $1.7MM in that building would only have gotten you apartment #8A, which the sponsor sold at the same time as PHG, for just $888K. To see PHG now asking less than #8A got last year implies a pretty sharp drop.

Just to be clear, I'm not a big fan of the building or the apartment, so this one is just a set of data points for me. Basic comp analysis 101 says PHG = 8A X 1.5. So at some point in 2006-2007, PHG might actually have fetched something like $2.5MM, which means it's down more than 35% from its peak value. And #8A, for which the current owner paid $1.7MM, is now worth no more than $1.1MM.

203 West 90th is an odd address: New construction on top of old, with a busy, stinky restaurant on the ground floor, a funeral parlor up the block, and a so-so stretch of Amsterdam all around. The building probably doesn't represent the UWS market very well. But to the extent that it's relevant, it's pointing way, way down.

This is quite interesting, West81st. What I think it shows, primarily, is that problem apartments (or even apartments with problems) are getting harder and harder to sell. At the height of the boom a lot of buyers would have overlooked the strange building and less-than-charming environs, and focused on the terrace, the ample windows and light. Now that the market is in the doldrums, the problems stand out in stark relief, while the advantages just don't seem that significant any more.

So I agree with you that this apartment isn't quite indicative of the UWS in general, but I also think that it is headed for a 50% decline, and that people who own in middling areas of the UWS should be concerned.

West81st,

I don't have a good comp for this one (I don't know Central Park West all that well) but this one really feels like movement to me:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/365253-coop-257-central-park-west-upper-west-side-new-york

8 rooms (you could call it 9 with that double living room) 3.5 baths, 45 feet facing the Park (albeit 3rd floor). Given the lack of pictures and no mention of the condition I assume it needs a gut, but even so...

Let's put it this way: if you compare it to other apartments on the Upper West Side with similar asking prices, you have to assume those other apartments are in trouble. To pick one example, and a beautiful apartment at that:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/351881-coop-110-riverside-drive-upper-west-side-new-york

I can't disagree that apartment quirks are an issue. But I also think the degree of seller motivation plays a huge role.

More and more, it's looking to me like a dichotomy in the market. The really desperate sellers are chopping prices, writing negotiable in all caps, having their brokers call everyone, etc. The sellers that can afford to wait, or don't have to sell, are generally keeping prices high, and in some cases, even finding their ideal buyers willing/able to pay their high prices.

Nothing if not interesting...

newbuyer99 I think you're right about the dichotomy, but even some of the least eager sellers are starting to adjust. Here are couple of examples that cut prices today:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/326763-condo-650-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york
New price: $2.45MM
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/307224-coop-52-riverside-drive-upper-west-side-new-york
New price: $2.975MM

They still won't sell, but they aren't standing still either.

West81st
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/307224-coop-52-riverside-drive-upper-west-side-new-york
New price: $2.975MM

will trade around $1,950,000 when the owner and broker decide to sell.

Revisiting 1192 Park Avenue #10A, a classic 9 that Mrsblogs mentioned earlier in this thread:

03/31/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $5,875,000
04/19/2008 Price decreased to $5,495,000
05/28/2008 Price decreased to $4,975,000
08/28/2008 Price decreased to $3,995,000
Today, Elliman cut this one to $3,250,000:
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=962691

#2A, apparently in similar condition and with a dismal view, traded in 2006 for $3.6MM.

West81 - it must be the wallpaper. Ugh.

I just bought in a new development downtown, got accepted offer at 24% less than asking price

Stephanie76 report abuse I just bought in a new development downtown, got accepted offer at 24% less than asking price

Really? I just bought into that same new development downtown for 32.41% less then asking price.

What development is it? Is it in FIDI?

Ruff..why you so angry and bitter on multiple threads?

Hey, I'm not bitter.

Thanks west81st, that's a great one--some serious chopping going on over there. i don't love that area of carnegie hill but a park ave classic 9 on the tenth floor at this price...things have changed.

West81 - re 203W 90th street - i visited it, it is a 1200sf apt w a 500sf terrace - it's really quite small, and $1.65mm may still be high for this one, especially considering the location. There are also projects all around it - not the best of neighborhoods

bender1961: I totally agree. The apartment is OK, but it's small, and the view from the terrace and living room is awful: wire-mesh balconies across Amsterdam that the tenants appear to use as storage bins. It's so bad that the agent shows the apartment with the curtains closed - a tactic usually reserved for windows that face brick walls.

btw, West81, since you seem to be really abreast of the market, on a tangential subject: (1) What is your sense of premium a hypothetical 1.5mm apartment would command if it had decent outdoor space as well (in other words a 1.5mm apt w/o outdoor space would trade at 1.5X if it were the same apartment with outdoor space - what is X?) and (2) have you observed whether X has changed over the past year as the prices have started adjusting?

bender: I'm afraid I can't help you there. Outdoor space is too rare in the apartments I track. Sorry.

This one is only down 28%, but I'll mention it anyway because I think it's beautiful:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/360030-house-327-west-76th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

StreetEasy History
07/06/2007 Previously listed in StreetEasy by Elliman for $16,000,000
08/12/2008 Elliman listing unavailable at $14,500,000
10/25/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $13,500,000
10/31/2008 Price decreased to $13,000,000

BHS just posted a reduction to $11,500,000.
http://www.bhsusa.com/detail.aspx?id=965995

Can anyone spare me $11,450,000?

I'm not sure if this one should go under favorite chops, or demonstrating movement with comps. Or both.
330 Spring Street 10C
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/357830-condo-330-spring-street-soho-new-york

StreetEasy History
12/01/2006 Previous sale closed for $2,469,256
10/15/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Core Group Marketing at $2,295,000
11/20/2008 Price decreased to $2,150,000
Recorded Sales:
12/01/2006 #10C $2,469,256

I like this apartment too--both a chop and a "movement with comp":

264 Lexington 10A
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/343690-coop-264-lexington-avenue-murray-hill-new-york
StreetEasy History
08/21/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $949,000
09/30/2008 Price decreased to $889,000
11/20/2008 Price decreased to $839,000

Recorded Sales:
12/19/2007 #9A $875,000

They keep snipping away at this one:
210 west 78th 3D
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/225866-coop-210-west-78th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

StreetEasy History
04/22/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Stribling at $795,000
05/17/2008 Price decreased to $770,000
06/04/2008 Price decreased to $749,000
06/25/2008 Price decreased to $722,000
08/04/2008 Price decreased to $699,000
09/02/2008 Price decreased to $670,000
09/24/2008 Price decreased to $645,000
10/10/2008 Price decreased to $629,000
11/14/2008 Price decreased to $620,000
11/18/2008 Price decreased to $599,000

Previous sale:
01/18/2006 #4D $749,000

Happyrenter: The Linden78 construction can't be helping at 210 West 78th. It's a huge job on a tiny street.

Pamela D'arc seems to favor incremental price cuts. I wonder if she'll rethink that strategy.