1160 3rd Ave - Frost House

As you said the building has a lousy lobby and the apartments tend to be on the smaller side that average. Some have balconies though!

The maintenance charges are high. Even if you believe the 450 sq ft its 1.67 per foot for no amenities except a doorman.

I know someone that lives there. They have a mice problem. At the last board meeting, they said about 45% of the units have mice. Sorry to break the news to you.

if 45% have a mice problem the entire bldg. must have it.

I think all buildings have mice in NYC at one point or another - it's the vigilant maintenance and upkeep of the building that allows it to either flourish or keep it away.

Is 1.67 high? We've looked at a ton of places in the UES and the average monthly maint / s.f. is 1.7, and that's with real sf quotes calculated from the floorplans, not the BS claimed.

Is there any update on the issue with mice at Frost House? The last posts are 2 years old. Also, how is the financial condition of the coop? Does the coop own the retail space? What is the size of the underlying mortgage and reserve fund, if any?

The sponsor owns the retail space. The building's a cond-op, with the retail unit at 10.46% and the co-op unit at 89.54%. Not much of a mortgage that I can see.

One listing indicates there is a monthly assessment till the end of 2010. How about 2011? The commercial space is not very attractive, as though the sponsor who retained it has no clue. Appearances from the curb are a draw back. Take a nick off for it being a white brick building as well.

Does the sponsor also own the land, ie is there a land lease?

There is no land lease. The land and building form a two-unit condo. The sponsor owns the retail unit and the co-op owns the residential unit.

Thank you so much for your help. I still do not understand who owns the land: the cooperative corporation, the sponsor/owner of the retail space or a third party?

The unit owners (two of them in this case) own the space within the boundaries of their respective units.

The parts of the building outside those boundaries, and the land itself, are called the Common Elements and are held by the condominium in trust on behalf of the individual unit owners.

So, when you buy a condo unit, the deed says "Unit x, block y, lot z, together with n% of the common elements."

The law makes exceptions for government-owned land like Battery Park City, Roosevelt Island, and Brooklyn Bridge Park. They can be condo-fied with the condo only leasing the land.

Again, I do appreciate all your help and, if I decide to buy, would obviously have a lawyer read all the documents. I thought the Frost House was a coop. Is it actually a condo? Or, does each shareholder own shares in a coop AND a percent ownership in the condo that owns the land and common areas of the building?

It's both. I.e., it's a co-op that owns a condo unit. The co-op corporation owns the residential condo unit, which is 89.54% of the condo. The co-op shareholders own shares of the co-op corporation. So, if you own 1% of the co-op's shares, and if the condo decided to sell the whole thing to a developer, you'd get 0.8954% of the proceeds.

A co-op can also lease a condo unit. E.g., at Chelsea Enclave the seminary formed a condo but retained ownership of the units. It leases out the big residential unit to the co-op. When the lease ends the co-op corporation won't own anything, so neither will the shareholders.

I lived in the building back in the 80's as it was going coop and the building was INFESTED w/ mice. WOW, I can't believe over 20 years later there is still a problem. You'd think they would have solved the problem.

Demand to see the condo board minutes.

Live in the building. There is absolutely no mice problem. Utter nonsense.

Is there any mice or rats or other bug related issues in this building?

And does anyone know the reason for the surge of units for sale in this building?

Pros of the building:
1. doormen - they will bend over backwards to make you feel safe, to take in your packages and to be like a member of your family. EVeryone in the building likes the doormen.
2. Maintence men - the guys who clean the lobbies, deal with trash/trashrooms, clean side walks, etc. do a very good job. the trash rooms never smell, the recyling area is cleaned very quickly.
3. Super - easy going guy that says hello to everyone. He looks at problems very quickly and provides answers on how to fix anythign that has gone wrong in your apartment. Also has a good number of connections to recommend quality people to hire for renovations.
3. location - convenient location to subway, grocery, pharmacy. on snowy days you don't have to walk more than a block to get out of the elements.
4. Apartment layouts - smartly designed apartments. Most owner apartments are modern and updated. Easy to move in and live in without a lot rennovation. All apartments have balconies which is nice.

Cons of the building:
1. the board. more interested in creating houserules that shareholders get no say on. they take themselves very seriously, but not the overall welfare of the building. They gossip about tenants like school children. It's embarassing to think these are the people responsible for your biggest investment. As a result, values of the apartments trail all the comparative buildings. Maintence increases are necessary, but the building should get something other than simply maintaining itself for these increases.
2. the lobby. hard to call it a classy building when this poor, outdated lobby has broken tiles, a doorman desk that is propped up with a door stop, and old looking wood throughout the main floor. Hardly screams "high end building".
3. laundry machines never work properly. Try calling the company number to tell them that your clothes are soaking wet after spending 2x in the dryer, nothing ever happens. Building only puts up notes sayign they'll fix the issue, but nothing gets better.
4. no amentities. no gym, no roof deck, no common space, no storage. For the maintence you pay here, you can get those things at other buildings in the same area. Again, why would people live here when they can pay slightly more for the apartment, but have lower costs of maintence? The building can not get any of the amentities listed above due to space restrictions, but they should not have the same maintence costs.

In the end, you have to make the call on what building you want to live in. if you can live with those problems at frost house, then it's a fine place to live. if you can't deal with meddlesome board members and barely working laundry machines, you should look elsewhere. Perhaps the shareholders of 1160 will elect a new board. It would make a world of difference.

Don't bring up the con's to the board. They'll deny, deny, deny. They prefer to stick their heads back in the sand and make up some more rules. Maybe they'll ban internet next since they seem to be so cutting edge.

This is a great location just one block from the subway. My friends and family cannot believe how easy it is to get to any place in NY.

As for the disucssion on the problems, yes, the board is definitely a bit harder than typical boards -- they seem to be more concerned on money than other places. But the building is very well run and the staff are superb. They absolutely love our family and treat everyone with respect. The residents were so warm to my son this Halloween. Our floor neighbors are friendly and ready to help with anything -- which is definitely unexpected on the UES.

Lived here for 8 years, there is NOT a mouse problem. Did renovations to the apartment, and NEVER had an issue with the board. In fact, no issues with the board at all. Agree about laundry, but machines are rented, and will probably get new ones soon. True, ugly lobby and zero amenities, but the staff is amazing. This is a family-friendly, warm building, in a perfect location.

Do the owners with west facing units on the lower floors hear the synagogue's industrial HVAC/air conditioning unit during the summer months? How loud does it get and does it go on for hours? I've been looking at some apartments but I'm concerned of the "unknown" since it's still winter.

Any updates on Frost House? Are things getting better, i.e. Board, mice, etc?

Thanks in advance.

wwwwwwwo ooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwww

The litigation between the sponsor and the co-op continues. Here's a "Joint Statement of Material Undisputed Facts" by the parties: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=i/daSHop8RKlzXa6ABQ3JQ==&system=prod

No cell phones in the common areas is a funny one.

The co-op has no case, right, NWT? This seems like a basic, "we don't like that the sponsor has 30% of the stock through we know what the consequences are" situation.

That about says it. The gist, from reading all the depositions, seems to me to be that the co-op thought the sponsor would settle pretty quick and give them something. That didn't happen. Two years later, the sponsor is fighting tooth and nail, and the co-op's legal-fee billings are almost $600,000. This in a co-op with hardly any reserve fund to begin with.

It's too many thousands of pages to get through it all, but go to eCourts, then do a party search for Frost Equities for some good reading.

There does indeed appear to be a rat problem. It also looks like there may be repair work needed on the facade, which can be expensive. On the plus site it does look to have low utility costs.

You can see this information by searching for the building on Revaluate

sponsor is selling and leaving. building is in good shape, residents are largely happy to rid themselves of sponsor who never added any value to the building. if there was no case, there would have been no settlement.

The continued comments about mice problem is bordering on harassment. you can literally go floor by floor and ask residents if they have had mice in the last 5 years and you will overwhelmingly hear, "no, i have not had mice".

It still has one of the ugliest lobbies in ny, but things have largely improved for the building. if you want a great location, great staff and a building zoned for great schools while being close to subway transportation for an easy commute to work, its hard to beat 1160 3rd ave.

Here's the settlement agreement: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=FrfyWfcxnFBbFZxlcDx6dw==&system=prod

The sponsor has 15 years to sell 15 apartments. The co-op has to pay the sponsor 19% of each apartment's sale price, but no more than one apartment per year.

teapot, who paid the co-op's legal fees? The shareholders or the sponsor?

there is a rumor afloat that the lobby will finally be remodeled, is this true?

This building has finally started to redo the lobby! I saw recently. While the exterior is still dated and Walgreens has closed and the front of the building is horrible, this is a step in the right direction! Agree?

Just wondering whether anyone has experience with owning a small dog here. I know the building is advertised as "cats only" but how strict are they?

The Frost House which is at 1160 Third Avenue East 67-68 Street is very conveniently located. Still reasonably priced for a full-time doorman building in the East 60s. Most units have private balconies. The new lobby is modern and bright. Upscale and elegant and clean. The staff is friendly, helpful and welcoming. The resident building manager who has been managing the building for the past twenty plus years is excellent. The building has a package room, a bike room and a large laundry room which has a cute book lending library established by the residents. The new rental policy is a big plus for the owners and buyers. Own for three years and you can lease for six years.