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building at 75 Wall Street

Started by richgolf
over 17 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Oct 2008
Is anyone having a problem getting a mortgage in this building
Response by BrianGallagher
over 17 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Oct 2008

Countrywide is lending in the building. Let me know if you have any questions. I am very familiar with the project. brian_gallagher@countrywide.com

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Response by rufus
over 17 years ago
Posts: 1095
Member since: Jul 2008

stay away from that building. it's a total piece of crap and in an awful neighborhood. why would anyone want to live on wall street?

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Response by nyc10022
over 17 years ago
Posts: 9868
Member since: Aug 2008

well, somehow they get people to live in Chicago.... so if they can get them to live there, they can get them to live anywhere...

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Response by GoingDown
over 17 years ago
Posts: 164
Member since: Aug 2008

75 Wall is ALL Website. If you are playing the Sims then this is the place for you.....cyberspace.

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Response by NYC__123
over 17 years ago
Posts: 8
Member since: Oct 2008

Hey Rufus - I am really sorry to hear that you got laid off from your job at the shop and that your mom won't let you live in her basement on long island anymore, but I am sure I speak for everyone on streeteasy (and all the other boards where you post your non-sense) when I say "Pack your bags (and don't forget your gold chains, sweatpants and baseball caps) for Chicago and don't let the door of the airplane hit you on the ass on the way out".

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Response by richgolf
over 17 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Oct 2008

Last I checked countrywide was not lending in this building
is there a risk this building is in financial trouble

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Response by andy
about 17 years ago
Posts: 5
Member since: Jan 2008

I see a new rental listed for 75 wall. Are people closing on apartments in the building? Looks like most construction has subsided.

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Response by JuStreet
about 17 years ago
Posts: 3
Member since: Dec 2008

How are people evaluating this and 20 Pine?

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Response by nyc212
about 17 years ago
Posts: 484
Member since: Jul 2008

...in terms of? They are both nice, but 75 Wall is much more solid as a luxury bldg. Also, I find the layouts to be much more efficient at 75 Wall.

20 Pine attracted too many investors/flippers, which is causing the current problems. We have yet to find out whether 75 Wall has attracted the same body of buyers currently in contract... I hope not.

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Response by 20_Pine
about 17 years ago
Posts: 11
Member since: Jan 2009

Alchemy is a great developer

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Response by foresto300
about 17 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Oct 2008

Several of my clients have closed on apartments at 75 Wall. Floors 21-28 are ready to close and the next set of floors to close will be 18-20. The gym, lounge, & media room are 95% complete and will be available shortly. Every apartment has it's own washer/dryer. There are a handful of apartments available for rent and two or three that have already been leased. The views to the West, North, & Southwest are great.

CountryWide, Chase, Lloyds TSB, and ISB (Investors Savings Bank, New Jersey) are all currently lending. The initial problem with CountryWide was that they didn't realize the condo and hotel were not related to each other - The issue has been resolved.

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Response by dmsrud
about 17 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Mar 2007

Thank you, foresto 300 !

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Response by foresto300
about 17 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Oct 2008

No problem.

I had a chance to photograph the amenities last weekend. Photos are posted at: http://www.condoanewyork.com/New_York_Apartments/Newsletter/Entries/2009/1/19_75_Wall_Amenities_Revealed.html

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Response by Eurocash
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 124
Member since: Aug 2008

The free fall has started.. people are pulling out and leaving their deposits here too.. it's going to get ugly

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Response by jimstreeteasy
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 1967
Member since: Oct 2008

either this market in manhattan is a lot stronger than people on here think OR this building is not going to sell any units at these prices (well above 1000sf for wall street is absurd, in my view)

but,,,if the market is so weak...why is this building still listing such high prices?...i just dont get it

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Response by anonymous
almost 17 years ago

The building is a bit out of the way, really was never intended for NYers but instead foreign investors who wanted a pied a terre but didn't think about the specific area.

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Response by dmsrud
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Mar 2007

Hey,Eurocash, tell me more details... please.

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Response by gusantana
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 20
Member since: Dec 2008

Jimstreeteasy,

The developers are running out of capital. They can ill afford to offer any concessions. Once the banks take over then you will see prices drop. These developers overpaid for the land and on top of that they probably overpaid for the labor and materials. Once they default you will see prices drop but only then will this come to fruition.

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Response by jrw293
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 91
Member since: Jan 2007

hey gus,you proclaim to know much about this building.how are you so privy to such priveledged info?could it be that you actuall know nothing about anything.

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Response by Goldie
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 182
Member since: Apr 2007

"probably overpaid for the labor and materials"? I walked by the giant rat every day for many months. Unlikely.

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Response by gusantana
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 20
Member since: Dec 2008

jrw293,

I am simply stating the obvious that must new developments and new condo conversions were bought at the height of the market. This means the developers paid inflated prices for the land, materials and labor. Urbadigs wrote an excellent post about these types of condos http://www.urbandigs.com/2008/11/condos_the_latest_unkind_cut.html. Until the developers are squeezed into default why would they decrease the price? Lets say they paid $1000/sqft if they sold for $600/sqft and our illiquid how can the developer cover the closing cost and his losses?

So you see its quite simple to understand why they are still priced so high!

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Response by jrw293
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 91
Member since: Jan 2007

dear gus,your 2nd post is worthwhile ,but the first was deplorable,because,it specified that negative situation conditions were at play at wb.now you change the nature of your comment to your perception of overall market conditions ,which is fine to espouse but in your 1st post,without basis,you badmouthed a project where laborers,professionals,and enteprenors expended much,as well as those who bought homea there.you shoud not be so quick to throw diatribes.

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Response by jrw293
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 91
Member since: Jan 2007

i meant 75 wall.

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Response by GAL
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 4
Member since: Dec 2007

I live in 75 Wall. Had no problem whatsoever getting a mortgage (from Chase). No service charge has been levied yet so pretty cheap. 18th floor amenities (gym, lounge etc) are open and are excellent. No idea about the roof terrace although I'll question that when it gets warmer. Work on the lobby has started although clearly isn't going to be completed in the three weeks they've suggested.

Apartment has been excellent with everything decent quality. A few problems with the apartment but nothing unexpected for a new build. The construction crews and building management have been very helpful with everything. Loads of people looking at apartments at the weekends; I'd guess about a half to two-thirds of the apartments are occupied for the floors which have closed. If you don't want to live here, that's fine by me, I like it quiet.

I was a bit sceptical about FiDi but now I love it. Lots of fantastic buildings and history, plenty of places to eat and drink nearby (true, more during the week than at the weekend, but still plenty). Super convenient for the subway: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, J, M, Z, R, W are 5 mins or less away. Ikea is 20 mins by the ferry which goes from the end of the street. Don't say that people who live here aren't going to Ikea; FiDi is cheap by comparison with most of Manhattan even though it's got an architecture and history that it can be proud of. Gristedes is acceptable for general groceries. The Chambers St Whole Foods is a couple of stops or about 15 mins walk. During the week, FiDi is full of people no matter how late. During the weekend, I was surprised how many tourists there are. In fact, there's so many tourists I don't know why more places aren't open at the weekend. I guess some people, and businesses, just don't understand how much times (and areas) have changed.

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Response by AgentRachel PRO
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 275
Member since: Nov 2008

they are going rental

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Response by TedGounaris
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 14
Member since: Mar 2009

75 Wall Street is going rental?

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Response by AgentRachel PRO
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 275
Member since: Nov 2008

someone i know in the industry was offered a position as a rental agent to work in-house...

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Response by TedGounaris
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 14
Member since: Mar 2009

I know there was an investor, from Russia I think who was in contract for several dozen units. It may be to rent those with in house help. I doubt its for sponsor units.

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Response by sticky
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 256
Member since: Sep 2008

I've seen this happening a lot in LA. Developers will only lower prices so low before converting the remaining units to rentals. For the most part, this has worked and the bank doesn't foreclose on the building. I think a lot of people will get great prices per sf from banks, but usually these aren't "prime" units ... mostly studios with unimpressive views.

But wow, 75 Wall was a very upscale building, I'm surprised they took this route. Wonder what percentage of the building will be rentals. It will be interesting if the same happens to 20 Pine and William Beaver.

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Response by chrystea
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 17
Member since: Mar 2009

1987 is backkkk

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Response by Eurocash
over 16 years ago
Posts: 124
Member since: Aug 2008

Is it a fact that the building is going rental??

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Response by jason10006
over 16 years ago
Posts: 5257
Member since: Jan 2009

"But wow, 75 Wall was a very upscale building, I'm surprised they took this route. "

Most new condo buildings in ALL neighborhoods, even Tribeca, Lenox Hill, and Chelsea, have many units for rent either by the sponsor or by owners. Even 15 CPW.

AS for this one - See

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/479208-rental-75-wall-street-financial-district-new-york

Rents are decining for those units available.

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Response by Jerkstore
over 16 years ago
Posts: 474
Member since: Feb 2007

now advertising rent to own on nytimes.com.

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Response by NYC_10005
over 16 years ago
Posts: 6
Member since: Apr 2009

anybody have a sense for how much off the asking prices people are getting in this building? I was thinking that 30% of ask would be a good placed to start - anybody think that is too high or not high enough?

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Response by NYC_10005
over 16 years ago
Posts: 6
Member since: Apr 2009

Just realized I had a typo in my post - I meant to say 30% "off" ask, not 30% "of" ask.

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Response by sallyunknown
over 16 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: May 2009

I know for a fact that the owner will entertain 30%+ off of ask.

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Response by chunderboy
over 16 years ago
Posts: 83
Member since: May 2009

sallyunknown,

obviously the next question that should be thrown in your direction is, how do you know for a fact? I am and have been watching this building and didn't get that when I spoke to the agent.

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Response by stash17
over 16 years ago
Posts: 87
Member since: Jan 2008

any new condo in FiDi will entertain 30% off asking. i recently looked down there and didn't but but that was my impression. i'll hedge a bit by saying i didnt look at 75 wall directly.

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Response by Penier
over 16 years ago
Posts: 6
Member since: Jun 2009

What does that mean they will "entertain" 30% off asking?

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Response by nyc212
over 16 years ago
Posts: 484
Member since: Jul 2008

It, of course, depends on the Development, but I'd have to say one is being too optimistic if s/he thinks "30% off" is the norm in FiDi. That might work for troubled developments that were initially grossly overpriced like 20 Pine, 88 Greenwich and maybe the District, but 75 Wall? I think not.

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Response by Downtownster
over 16 years ago
Posts: 140
Member since: Mar 2009

nyc212 - why do you think that 75 Wall is not "grossly overpriced"? It sure seems that way to us but perhaps we are missing something. Plus, who really wants to buy in a building that's gone rental?

http://downtowny.blogspot.com/2009/06/this-deal-at-75-wall-street-is-reason.html

-DT

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Response by downtown1234
over 16 years ago
Posts: 349
Member since: Nov 2007

According to Streeteasy, 28N sold for $972,000. I don't know what it was listed at, but 32N is listed for $1.325MM and 20N is listed for $1.105MM (and both are 762 sq ft one bedrooms - the sales office gave me a price list). I also know that all the floorplans on floors 21-30 are the same (based on literature the sales office gave me), so 28N is a 762 sq ft one bedroom. Based on the listing price of 20N and 32N, I would presume that 28N was listed around $1.275MM; That means a $972,000 sale is about a 24% discount from ask.

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Response by evnyc
over 16 years ago
Posts: 1844
Member since: Aug 2008

And yet, although a 762 square foot 1-bedroom costs $5,636 a month to buy and the same size apartment costs $3,320 to rent, the apartment is in contract.

Buy:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/393228-condo-75-wall-street-financial-district-new-york

Rent:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/503490-condo-75-wall-street-financial-district-new-york

How does one rationalize such a purchase price?

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Response by Downtownster
over 16 years ago
Posts: 140
Member since: Mar 2009

ev - it seems even more difficult to rationalize when you look at this place:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/418045-condo-75-wall-st-financial-district-new-york

At only 675 sq ft, it costs $3230 per month to rent, just a hair less than the 762 sq ft apartment that you link to above. The pricing at 75 Wall is so messed up - probably the market is just looking for clarity around how to treat the whole rent to own issue.

http://downtowny.blogspot.com/2009/06/this-deal-at-75-wall-street-is-reason.html

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Response by evnyc
over 16 years ago
Posts: 1844
Member since: Aug 2008

Downtownster, this kind of stuff makes me want to throw up my hands and say I'll never understand this market, much less be able to purchase anything. In so many ways, this city is all about chance and luck. It's maddening. It's even more maddening that I love it here anyway.

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Response by rbegun
over 16 years ago
Posts: 3
Member since: Jan 2009

There are at least 13 lawsuits in this building pertaining to the Land Lease Act and more coming.

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Response by merumeru
over 16 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Jun 2009

I think I can shed some light on the discussion here. I've spent time at 75 Wall trying to find something to rent (ideally a 1 bed + HO, 2 bed - 2 bath).

Just about all of the floors for sale/rent-to-own (RtO) are done, and the lobby is coming together pretty well. I was told that the roof-deck will be done September 1st (we'll see...), and the amenities floor has been done for some time. I believe most of the construction now is focused on the hotel floors; you do see quite a few construction guys in the elevators.

Apparently (this is from talking to the RtO agents on the 31st floor), the bank is requiring a minimum price/sq foot for the RtO program, and possibly even for selling as well (they were a bit reluctant to give out too much information). That's why those prices (esp. rents) are so high. Also, after the initial 14-month lease, there doesn't seem to be any desire to renew/extend the lease; eventually they want to sell _all_ of the units (I know, good luck unless they can convince the bank to let them lower the prices). So for someone like me who has no intention of buying anytime soon, renting through the office makes little sense, unless you really want to move again in a year. You can negotiate the final purchase price as part of the RtO program, but I don't know how far down they will go.

So, I don't think it would be accurate to say the building has "gone rental." Or at least no more so than a building like 15 Broad, the WB House and several other buildings have. In any condo building you'll have owners who rent out their units. I did find a rental at 75 Wall, but directly through an owner, not the RtO office. You can get a much better deal that way, if you can find an owner willing to rent.

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Response by Downtownster
over 16 years ago
Posts: 140
Member since: Mar 2009

merumeru - that certainly is interesting - I think there was an article in maybe the Real Deal last month on the topic of sponsors trying to negotiate lower reserve prices with banks - interesting that 75 Wall might not have been able to do that.

75 Wall seems like the institutional equivalent of that thread about "delusional owners" who decide to rent for a year while they wait for the market to come back. Interesting to see a building doing it...

http://downtowny.blogspot.com

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Response by bignycfan
over 16 years ago
Posts: 27
Member since: Aug 2008

great building!

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Response by Gwcarver
over 16 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Jul 2009

D0es rent to own kill the chance for a owner to rent his place out because there is no extra incentive. or free months?

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Response by merumeru
over 16 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Jun 2009

Downtownster: I never thought about it that way, but you might be right! I noticed that SE now lists over 50 units active for sale, it was about 30 for a while... perhaps they've realized the program just makes no sense.

Gwcarver: It didn't for me. I'm renting directly from an owner. As I mentioned above, the rent to own program doesn't make much sense unless you really know you're going to be able to buy the place after your lease is up. Though it is true you would probably have to match or beat (as my landlord did) the effective rent of a RtO apartment to be competitive.

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Response by mayeenyc
over 16 years ago
Posts: 4
Member since: Jan 2009

Does anyone know if this building is having any financial problems? What should a potential buyer be concerned about?

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Response by gqbuthighiq
over 16 years ago
Posts: 39
Member since: Sep 2009

Does anyone know if any of the units have sold for 400k or below?

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Response by downtown1234
over 16 years ago
Posts: 349
Member since: Nov 2007

A big issue with this building is the lack of sales. The building has roughly 349 apartments and the sales office claims about 52-55%% (roughly 180-190) are sold or in contract. However, only about 65 or so have actually closed - that means about 115 units are in contract but haven't closed. Since the building has a TCO for almost all the floors, it means that the purchasers of most of the 115 units do not plan to close (either b/c they cannot get financing or otherwise don't think losing their 15% deposit is enough to force them to close). Thus, you end up with building where about 65 of 349 apartments are closed and occupied. I'm not sure what will happen, but I think there is a reasonable chance the construction lender will foreclose on the unsold units and drop the prices on the remaining units.

As for whether any units have sold for less than $400 - you can check the sales history on streeteasy, but I seriously doubt it.

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Response by dtlooker
over 16 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Sep 2009

So 35G got forced to close at early 2008 prices
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/919268
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/166072-condo-75-wall-street-financial-district-new-york

StreetEasy History

01/12/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,300,000.
04/22/2008 Listing is no longer available.
09/03/2009 Listing sold.
09/03/2009 Sale recorded for $1,300,000

And now listed to rent furnished for $5K per month.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/569322-condo-75-wall-street-financial-district-new-york

Common charges over $1K per month

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Response by kalundur
over 16 years ago
Posts: 3
Member since: Sep 2009

This might be better than 20 Pine if you aren't a swimmer because you don't have to pay the pool maintenance charges.

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Response by jim123
over 16 years ago
Posts: 121
Member since: May 2008

What's the deal with several of the recently closed units in this being bought by LLCs?

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Response by nyc212
over 16 years ago
Posts: 484
Member since: Jul 2008

Once inside, it is a lovely place, athough (like 20 Pine), the units have tiny and limited # of windows due to the large floor plate. If they were to have completed back in 2006, they would have done really well.

However, the bldg's exterior is SO unattractive right now. Just by looking at the construction site, 75 Wall is a mess (physically). If they want people to buy, they should try (physically) cleaning up the mess a bit. Are you reading, 75 Wall??? Seriously.

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Response by nlgreen
over 16 years ago
Posts: 8
Member since: Sep 2009

Any preferences on this vs William Beaver House?

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Response by NYC917
over 16 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Jul 2009

75 Wall has much more space to store stuff, although ammenities at WBH nicer and its ready.
1BR apt at 75 Wall are going for $3,200 or less and all fees are paid by owner, even application fees.
Still waiting to see rooftop open and no bike storage yet available.

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Response by downtown1234
about 16 years ago
Posts: 349
Member since: Nov 2007

Just saw 31G and 32G sold in October. Both are 653 sq ft. I can't imagine that the buyers of 31G are very happy since they paid $140,000 more than the owners of the same apartment on the 32nd floor.

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Response by petersjohn135
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Nov 2009

I am currently in contract to buy a unit on the 35th floor for the full asking price just shy of $1,200,000 - A price pegged prior to the down-turn. I'm not sure whether to go ahead and proceed to close on the purchase or to cut my losses and lose my 15% deposit monies - Does anyone have any comments ? By the way I am an overseas investor so my objective is to rent out the unit as soon as I take ownership - That also gives me concern as to the state of the rental market. I have recently read a number of advertisements detailing reductions in their rents for units at 75 Wall St - Any help would be good!

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Response by Reisol
about 16 years ago
Posts: 3
Member since: Apr 2009

Hi Peter,
I live in the building and also represent several foreign investors.
I think I can help you
Please email me at info@sohallc.com

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Response by Catch22
about 16 years ago
Posts: 4
Member since: Nov 2007

Can anyone explain to me why they can't seem to move any units in this building? I toured it several weeks ago, and it appears it's going to turn out beautiful...the amenity floor and rooftop facility are amazing! But they seem to have only sold 2-3 units during the past two months. They have over 200 unsold units. What's going on?

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Response by RE2009
about 16 years ago
Posts: 474
Member since: Apr 2009

i don't have any specifics but i think they are still very expensive for this market.... are they offering huge discounts?
also think office conversions are difficult to pull off, often strange layouts and never really feel like home, especially with that kitchen..
but again, just my thoughts..

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Response by downtown1234
about 16 years ago
Posts: 349
Member since: Nov 2007

It seems they are offering discounts of around 10-12%. The problem is that still puts most apartments in the $1000-$1200 sq ft range. That is a tough sell for high-end buildings in USQ, the village, chelsea, etc. I don't think most people are willing to pay those prices for an apartment in FiDi when they can get once just as nice in a more desirable location. FWIW, I do think that 75 Wall is one of the few office conversions that actually turned out quite nice - they are just priced too high for where they are located.

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Response by Brooklyn77
about 16 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Dec 2009

well this building has a lot of issues. mexicans working on condo units and they want to sell $1300 per sf.
quality of the units and craftsmanship is bad. $800 per sf is new realistic price. many renters in the building. they will move out and you will not get a new condo anymore. it will be second hand.

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Response by jenny828
about 16 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: May 2009

I visited 75 Wall a few weeks back and am interested in their 440 sq studio unit. Is anyone concerned about the projected tax without the abatement? It is about $1.65/sf, which seems extremely high compared to other comparable buildings, like 88 Greenwich, which is about 69 cents per sf. Why is the projected taxes so high for 75 Wall? I would appreciate any feedback.

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Response by marco_m
about 16 years ago
Posts: 2481
Member since: Dec 2008

just another weak office conversion in a weaker neighborhood to live

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Response by jenny828
about 16 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: May 2009

anyone have any experience with the rent to own program offered at 75 wall?

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Response by inonada
about 16 years ago
Posts: 7952
Member since: Oct 2008

Jenny, let's do the math. Common charges are $500, and unabated taxes will be $725. You'll get a tax deduction on the taxes worth $225 a month, so your monthly costs will be $1000 not including insurance or upkeep. You can see that the units rent for no more than $2000 (last ask on one was $1950). Suppose you can negotiate that cheapest unit from $570K down to $500K. That means for the $500K you have to put up (say you had the cash), you'd get a $10K benefit (the difference between rent and monthly ownership costs assuming you had no mortgage). Does a 2% return on a long-term risky investment of $500K sound good to you? It shouldn't.

What I'm trying to say is that go for it and rent it, but beware the rent-to-own program as it's just a technique to sell to you at a price no one else was willing to buy at. Would you be willing to share the rent-to-own price.

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Response by rangersfan
about 16 years ago
Posts: 877
Member since: Oct 2009

you have the same opinion on rent-to-own offered at the visionaire? Different comp I would say....

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Response by anonymous
about 16 years ago

how does it work at the visionaire?
i have always wondered about rent to own

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Response by anonymous
about 16 years ago

Ranger are you at the Visionaire. I have been thinking about that building, I was there in the fall with a friend and loved it. Am curious as to how the plan works but not up for a heavy sales pitch so any any information would be appreciated!

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Response by jimstreeteasy
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1967
Member since: Oct 2008

Is rent-to-own an option to purchase (ie a call option,that is probably worthless, in my view) or just a discount basically where you are not obligated to buy now but only after renting (just a discount).

MOving on, buying in that neighborhood, at 1000psf or even more, no matter what the building. is,let's face it, a loud screaming statement that you think manhattan real estate has a brief blip and is no longer in a bubble (unless you are ultra-wealthy and don't care and are buying for say convenience). Paying 500k+ for a 440 sf studio seems completely absurd to me. Everyone is different by 440 sf is below the "livable" size in the view of many,many people. Have you looked at your alternatives? Have you looked at what you can get for spending say another 80,000 or so? If you are buying so small because of your financials then I would say the absurdity is even more pronounced. Why pay dumb-money prices if you don't have bags of cash to waste?

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Response by jimstreeteasy
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1967
Member since: Oct 2008

I meant to say in my first paragraph...is rent to own an obligation to buy after renting?,which is, sort of, a discount, I guess.

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Response by rangersfan
about 16 years ago
Posts: 877
Member since: Oct 2009

bubbles, midtowngal - i think its probably negotiable, but understand you can negotiate a purchase price now and if you decide to buy within the first year then a percentage of rent will be applied to purchase price. i think its a great building but obviously the red flags are new development and the current market environment.

jim - i don't think a call option is worthless in any environment. if you are intending to own, there is time value to doing one of these deals now without getting locked in and losing deposit if you the market continues to soften and you decide to walk away.

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Response by inonada
about 16 years ago
Posts: 7952
Member since: Oct 2008

A call option is never worthless, just potentially of infintesimal value. If your rent is no worse than other rental options, the free option can't hurt unless you lock yourself into something mentally, which of course may be the point from the developer's side.

Rangersfan, I don't really follow the buildings or this market per se, but I'm more than happy to offer my free opinion (you get what you pay for) on a Visionaire unit. Do you have a specific one in mind?

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Response by jimstreeteasy
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1967
Member since: Oct 2008

Rangers..I meant negligible value (of course, any option has some theoretical value). Even the bulls dont ascribe much option to a call option at today's prices.

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Response by RE2009
about 16 years ago
Posts: 474
Member since: Apr 2009

i know bpc fairly well so happy to offer my opinion too. also know FIDI pretty well but not an expert, but i do know a few buildings well so happy to offer my thoughts.

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Response by jenny828
about 16 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: May 2009

thanks inonada, i'm not sure what the rent to own price is, but I was told by the sales office that they are flexible with respect to the price, as well as rent to own terms (length, price). The lowest I've seen a studio sell for was for 500k in Feb 2009, which is still $1,133/sf (pretty high). I've been looking to buy in the fidi for quite a while, but haven't found the right place. I will need to enter into a rental by the end February (unless I buy), so I thought 75 Wall might be a good option. If hypothetically, they are willing to deduct $25,000 for a year of rent (at $2,000/month) off of the lowest previous sales price of $500,000, that would bring the monthly to $2,500/month (30 year fixed mortgage at 5%, with 20% down). I think $2,500/month is reasonable, but that is assuming (1) interest rates will stay around 5% at the end of the 12 months rent period; (2) I would be able to sell the unit in 5 years for at least for what I purchased it for (since I would want to sell well in advance of the tax abatement ending). That's also assuming prices will not fall even further in the next few years. I can't make a slam dunk case for it, which is why I've been on the fence and unable to buy... Just thought 75 Wall might be a good option to leave open (at the right purchase price) since then, at least I won't be throwing money away on rent.

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Response by jimstreeteasy
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1967
Member since: Oct 2008

Jenny...Your comments suggest you should kick back and read more on this site.

If you want OUT because of the expiring abatement, think like this: others less likely to want in

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Response by jenny828
about 16 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: May 2009

thanks Jim. The apartment is small but works for me. I'm not willing to pay the extra 80k for the extra space, out of the budget. I'm looking for a studio in fidi with low cc + tax (around $500/month). There just seem to be many around in fidi for under $500k. I agree with you, I think it's extremely expensive.

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Response by rangersfan
about 16 years ago
Posts: 877
Member since: Oct 2009

inonada - thanks. i will take you up on your generous offer. basically, you can see by their site that the building is still over 1000 psf and upwards of that with high floors and views. the developer and architecht are first class. realize all the negatives - new development, probably around 60% sold, bpc (land lease). it is a first rate building so to me the biggest wild card seems like inventory is completely stalled (not unlike anything else in the market). reading these threads, all seem to be bears and when you cut through all the gobble, would appreciate any insights to new development in bpc.

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Response by jenny828
about 16 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: May 2009

i agree with you about the abatement. seems like in the next few years there will be a lot of units on the market with abatements that are set to expire in a few years. unattractive, and would likely drive down the purchase price. ideally, i would like to buy a unit in the fidi in the next year, but only if it makes sense financially.

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Response by jenny828
about 16 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: May 2009

*there just DOESN"T seem to be many studios in fidi for under 500k.

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Response by jimstreeteasy
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1967
Member since: Oct 2008

I don't know jenny828, my feeling is this: very highly priced studios are for rich guys looking for a place to crash when they work late, or 27 year olds who are on an upward income trajectory with plenty of room for a big risk appetite....not for a careful person on a budget.

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Response by jenny828
about 16 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: May 2009

I fall into the second category - but am still mindful of a budget and being disciplined. Think you have to in this market, and I'm exploring my options. Thanks for the feedback everyone.

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Response by inonada
about 16 years ago
Posts: 7952
Member since: Oct 2008

"Just thought 75 Wall might be a good option to leave open (at the right purchase price) since then, at least I won't be throwing money away on rent."

Certainly keeping your options open is good, but just be careful to acknowledge if you're paying for that option. I.e., is $2000 a month a good rental price given other options? From other markets I track, I think $2000 is an OK rental price, but I think if you work hard and have some flexibility, I would guess you could do as good as $1600 for something comparable. $2000 is a fine rent, but I bet you could do better.

On the expression "throwing money away on rent", I find it to be a pretty silly expression. First, you are spending the money. It's just as silly to say "throwing money away on food". Second, when you buy a place, you spend money on interest that will never come back. You pay maintenance. You pay taxes. You pay interest. You pay an opportunity cost on a high-risk down payment that is first in line to get hit if prices go down. You pay transaction costs that are on the order of 10% of your sale price. The expression evokes the idea that renting wastes money because the alternative of buying somehow magically abolishes the need to spend money for shelter. It doesn't; it merely complicates it greatly beyond the ability of most people to analyze.

Best of luck with your decision!

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Response by inonada
about 16 years ago
Posts: 7952
Member since: Oct 2008

Rangersfan, that is really outside markets I follow, so I'm not sure I have anything helpful to say beyond generalities. It looks like 28D last asked for $2.575M and last asked a rent of $8500? The 4% rent vs price ratio doesn't seem that different than anything else. Assuming the common charges and taxes (which I presume are $1600 and not being abated) are not going up, they are on the reasonable side. However, you still got the issue of a sub-3% net yield. Same story as most NYC developments.

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Response by Catch22
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 4
Member since: Nov 2007

Can anyone tell me what all the "Sales Activity" that occurred on 4/15/10 for a number of units involved? Thank you.

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Response by NJSHORE
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 15
Member since: Feb 2010

had to believe that somebody for studio paid over 1670 psf. 75 wall street is in trouble as everybody else in FIDI

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Response by kennykeno
over 15 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: May 2010

I own a unit in 75 wall i have it rented and it pays for it self i am very happy with it. I have it rented for about 18 months now.

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Response by downtown1234
over 15 years ago
Posts: 349
Member since: Nov 2007

Anybody have any news on this building? The last closing (according to Streeteasy) was in March and a bunch of apartments were de-listed in April. I can't imagine their lenders are happy with the lack of sales. The lack of activity makes you wonder if something like what is going on at WBH is happening here too.

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Response by Rinafiron
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Dec 2009

I'm thinking about renting a unit in this building from an investor/owner with a broker attached. I happened upon the listing while browsing online -- I hadn't engaged the broker on our behalf. Is it unreasonable to ask not to pay the broker's fee?

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Response by fongfong
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Jun 2010

Anyone knows how many years of tax abatement left in this building? 15 years?

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Response by downtown1234
over 15 years ago
Posts: 349
Member since: Nov 2007

The building has a 15 year tax abatement. Taxes begin to phase back in during the 10 year.

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Response by downtown1234
over 15 years ago
Posts: 349
Member since: Nov 2007

Lenders give 75 Wall St. a 2-year extension
German bank holding the $263 million construction loan on the hotel/condo tower gives the developers a much needed break; more than half the units in the converted office building still unsold.

Share Print Email Add a comment By Amanda Fung

With more than half of its 346 luxury condominium units still unsold, the developers of 75 Wall St., a condo conversion in the Financial District, caught a big break from their lender. The developers, Hakimian Organization, along with partners Peykar Brothers Realty and Gorjian Properties, announced Monday that they have received a two-year extension on their $263 million construction loan from Germany’s Bayerische Landesbank.

The loan matured April 30, according to Rex Hakimian, an executive director at the Hakimian Organization, adding that the developers were also given an option to extend the loan for one year. The developers began work on the condo conversion three years ago. A 253-room Hyatt hotel chain, called Andaz, is now on the lower floors of the building, which is zoned for residential and commercial use, and 346 luxury condos are on the upper floors. The Andaz opened in January, around the same time the apartments were completed, noted Mr. Hakimian.

“Our lender is on board and everyone has a lot of faith in this project,” said Mr. Hakimian.

So far, 125 units—36% of the condo units—are sold, with 10 currently in contract, according to Corcoran Sunshine Group, which has been handling the exclusive sales and marketing for the project since its inception. While residents share the hotel amenities with visitors, the residences are separate from the hotel.

Sales of the units, which range from 440 square foot studios to 3,420 square foot penthouses, began 18 months ago, said Mr. Hakimian, adding that he was glad Andaz opened this year as opposed to in 2009, when the hotel market was struggling. He noted that while price reductions have not been implemented in the building, the developers are negotiable on pricing for certain units.

“Contract signings slowed down a little as the market went down, but traffic to the property and inquiries have increased dramatically since the hotel opened,” he added. Prices range from $915 per square foot to $1,600 per square foot, and penthouses are asking for more than $2,400 per square foot.

Last year, 75 Wall introduced a successful rent-to-own program, where 100% of rent would go to the purchase price of the apartment, according to Daniel Hedaya, executive vice president of brokerage Platinum Properties, which placed renters in the building. The developers said it’s is still offering that program on a limited basis.

“As the end of the term of their leases, renters are purchasing in the building,” Mr. Hedaya noted. “75 Wall is one of the best buildings downtown. Units have fantastic layouts and a lot of storage, the building has a gorgeous rooftop and amenities.”

In 2006, Hakimian and its partners bought 75 Wall Street, formerly a 36-story, 600,000 square feet commercial tower, from J.P. Morgan Chase for $185 million. Today the building is two-third luxury residential and one-third hotel with a parking garage and 2,200 square feet of retail. The retail space is currently being marketed by Winick Realty, said Mr. Hakimian.

“We are confident that we can get sales completed and that we won’t need to get an extension,” said Mr. Hakimian.

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Response by jvwnyc
over 15 years ago
Posts: 9
Member since: Jul 2007

Does anyone living in &5 Wall know the annual property management fee(shown as a line item in the year-end financial statment sent to unit owners) for this building or similar buildings in the Financial District?

Are you happy with the managing agent's services?

Thank you for you help or suggestions on where to obtain.

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