brokers helping brokers & "The answer is Apartment Rentals"

Never pay more than 1 month's worth of rent as the broker fee.

Negotiate hard on this.

More is a waste.

Never pay the broker fee. Is a waste.

What are the best ways to find a rental apartment "without" paying broker fees?

That's my question also...how can you get the landlord to pay the agent fee?

julia - many tried, very few succeeded.

In a bad rental market- as in 2001/2002 the landlords paid the agents fee - if you went on your own you got a free month.

go no fee rental places.

nybits.com

Easiest way to avoid broker fees is to go directly to the buildings management office and just bypass the brokers. Many buildings have the telephone number of the management office on the outside of the building. Heres a couple of big management companies. Rosewood, Akam, Brodsky, Rudin, Glick, Solow etc. Also with the market downturn, you'll see more apts. without fees. I have rented in the city for over 25 years and never paid a brokers fee.

I've been told that if you bypass the broker and go directly to the building's leasing office you will likely pay more in your monthly rate because the "fee" goes to the building's leasing rep/manager. A kind of you-pay-one-way-or-the-other deal. Any truth to that?

find smaller property management companies, they all have websites by now...

lol @ the likes of related, and their prices in this market

Look at this list of available apartments:

http://ogdencapproperties.com

Click on residential, top left.

In the past (like last week) the prices were listed.

Jim - yup. Happened to me. It was a lease assignment, too, and they didn't even bother to spruce up the place after the lease breaker moved out.

Try:

K&R Realty specializes in low rent no broker fee apartments throughout Manhattan . Our buildings are clean, well maintained, and efficient.
www.kandrrealty.com/

they are indeed a good management company!

"I've been told that if you bypass the broker and go directly to the building's leasing office you will likely pay more in your monthly rate because the "fee" goes to the building's leasing rep/manager. A kind of you-pay-one-way-or-the-other deal. Any truth to that?"

Yeah, that sounds like another broker lie to me. "Go through me or get screwed".

I know plenty of folks who paid or avoided broker fees on apartments that rented for the same amount either way. The brokers keep the broker fee. The management company gets the same money either way.

Some people clean their own houses. Some people repair their own computers. And some people hire others to do that for them.

I know folks love to bash brokers, but some people still need them and will continue to use them. The fees can be galling, but in many cases a broker performs the tasks some renters don't want/have time to do. We do negotiate with landlords. We do preview apartments. We do make appointments and drive renters from location to location. In my (remote) neighborhood, I also give informal tours, show people the various routes to the subway, advise about the bus schedule, where to walk your dog, etc... We do perform a service, and unless someone rents or buys through us, we don't get paid anything. I'm not sure how that makes us evil.

tina24hour - you really preview the apartments?! Even the brokers I am dealing with on purchases don't do that (unless they happen to have been there for a different reason) so I'm surprised to hear they do it for rentals.

We do preview, on occasion - especially for out of town clients, or for new construction. Or if a landlord has recently renovated an apartment and is increasing the rent. Sometimes you can't preview because there's a tenant in place and you don't want to bother them more than once. And sometimes it's more effective to go with your client, particularly in the beginning when you are getting to know their preferences, tastes, price ceilings.

We're based in Brooklyn, and it is a bit different here. Manhattan rentals tend to move really quickly, so there's not as much time for that. And buyer clients often go to open houses without me - I get as much information from the listing broker as possible, register my clients, and get involved if my buyer is interested.

But I think most people prefer going to open houses without their brokers - like kids at the mall, it's no fun window shopping with your mom.

Yes, I might trust a broker to tell me where to walk a dog and how to get to the subway or bus.

But as soon as brokers got into the "investment" game, and basically lied about everything being a great "opportunity", then I think they deserve ALL of the criticism they get.

nyc10022 - to which "investment" game are you referring? The one in which investors purchase investment property, to develop, rent, or flip? Or the one in which owner/occupants buy for the long term?

It can be either... pretty much anyone buying apartments as "investments" whether they live in them or not.

Long term owner/occupants who buy for a long term PLACE TO LIVE, cool.

Long term owner/occupants who buy as a "financial strategy"... thats as much of a game as the flippers...

I mostly deal with two types - people looking for a place to live (long term), and developer/investors.

I have been advising nearly every non-developer buyer I have spoken to over the past three years to buy only if they plan on staying in the property for the next five years. I have even talked people out of buying properties (2007: 3 br condo conversion on 110th street for $1500/sf, shifty developer, high projected maintenance). There's a business strategy behind this way of operating, too: I have no need to compete with the bigger "wholesale" brokers if I have a small, dedicated clientele who will refer me to their friends if I don't screw them. No much of a business model in 2006, but it's working out nicely now.

Serious developers need no advice from me. I just find them properties and submit their bids.

> I have been advising nearly every non-developer buyer I have spoken to over the past three years to
> buy only if they plan on staying in the property for the next five years.

If less than 5, absolutely, bad advice to buy.
But, even if more than 5 years, its still pretty lousy advice...

"Riding out" a loss is no excuse to take one you can avoid...

I'm not sure many people - property owners or not - avoided a loss this year. Those people who kept their money in mutual funds instead of using it for a down payment on a property aren't necessarily feeling too sanguine right now.

Thats a bad comparison. Anybody who put down payment money in stocks wasn't too smart. Any basic investing book will tell you that...

That being said, taking even a 50% decline in a mutual fund leaves you much better off than even just a 25% decline in an apartment leveraged 5x or 10x. Those folks will losee 100% or more of the investment.

But comparing one stupid "investment" to another doesn't make EITHER a good investment...

Thats a bad comparison. Anybody who put down payment money in stocks wasn't too smart. Any basic investing book will tell you that...

That being said, taking even a 50% decline in a mutual fund leaves you much better off than even just a 25% decline in an apartment leveraged 5x or 10x. Those folks will losee 100% or more of the investment.

But comparing one stupid "investment" to another doesn't make EITHER a good investment...

Right now the vast majority of mgmt companies are paying the brokers fee & offering a free month. if you don't have the time to search on your own, you don't lose anything but using a broker (at most you would pay 6.5%, which is less than a month). Granted there are many shady/sleazy brokers out there that give the rest of us a bad name, which is a shame. That's probably the main reason I decided to become a broker myself.
As far as previews go, many rental brokers preview "hot" apts so that they can take photos & post them on their websites. The reason sales brokers don't is usually because the listing agent won't allow it. Also, an experienced rental agent will have a good idea of what the typical apt looks like in buildings owned by major landlords.

Here's my beef with most brokers I've been dealing with (on the rental side, mind you): They think as a renter (say, from a coop owner) I have to pay their fee, because that's the way it's been...well guess what, times have CHANGED! And I'm not your client, the owner looking to rent is. I grew up in NYC and I don't want to hear about where to walk my dog or where to buy a goddamn hotdog, I just want the owner to feel good about renting his/her apt and I want to feel good about my rent...and with this person in the middle, they just screw it up most of the time (I'm talking about RENTALS here, not buying.) The majority of the brokers I've spoken to in the last 2 months haven't been willing to admit to the downturn, because they want more money and need to justify their existence in the rental market...and in those cases I walk away, without any other discussions.
It's one thing to have to negotiate with the landlord/apt owner, but ALSO having to negotiate with the broker (FOR A RENTAL)...what's the point? Fee? I say HAH

Brokers even lie to other brokers ,the ads some of these companies run are BS...take it from a 27 year Manhattan resident and 17 years as a broker. It's a tough market all around and those who have wanted to see us on the ropes-you are now getting your wishes.

You can certainly find an apartment on your own but you will certainly exclude coops and condos that are being handled exclusively. If you are looking for something a bit special or unique you may not find that in a "no-fee" rental building such as a loft, pre-war doorman building or a brownstone. There are also a couple of owners that only use brokers. Most large firms will not except a one month fee from a client on an exclusive listing-remember the broker must split that with his/her firm.

I have now convinced all the owners I represent to pay the brokerage fee and I am willing to except discounts even from them so I can offer all my listings "no fee" the environment warrants it. I still offer these listing to the entire brokerage community but as a "collect your own fee" and I get paid from the owner, not out of the fee collected by cooperating broker(I don't get paid twice).

When working with clients that want to see all available listings including other firms exclusives I work for a pre-agreed flat fee and work to lower the overall percentage of the fee as well. On all deals where I am being paid directly by owners(paying at least 1/2 a month fee) all my clients receive either a $500 or $1000 dollar gift card at move in. Most clients will pay no fee with me these days as I am able to collect my commission from the owner even if the owner is not offering it, most will pay me a reasonable amount if I bring them a good client(in this case no gift card as I am sometimes accepting as little as $500).

You can also hire me as a flat fee consultant where I will send you all listings suitable to your requirements, perhaps a few I think you should consider as well and schedule the viewings for a fee of $500. With this consulting model I do not show you the apartments but will be available to assist you with the application and answer any questions you may have about the location. building etc.
www.theburkhardtgroup.com