Any MBA Graduates Out There?

The NY Times had an article about MBA's and the lost opportunities and experience to people who get right into banking. My MBA was sort of a waste, but I didn't pay much for it and it's not exactly U of Pheonix.

Do you have a link for the article?

To add to my comment, the easy money in IB is over. I'd only consider school if I didn't have a decent job. A good job in this market is golden. Anyway, it's much more competitive in a shiddy economy to get into the top schools so you have to think about your prospect of getting accepted.

I was planning on getting my MBA online. I was leaning toward Northeastern University.

The average salary for an MBA grad with less than 5 years of experience is entirely dependent upon the industry in which you work, and to a lesser extent, the prestige of the school.

Get your MBA from Wharton or Harvard and the world can be your oyster, even in a down economy.

Get your MBA from Pace, and, well, you will have a harder time getting a job.

Where do you think Northeastern would rank?

Found it- http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/16/business/16mba.html

I got mine in 05, so I'll try and throw in my .02.

I definitely think it is worth it, but a big part of that is exactly where you get it from. A first tier b-school (Wharton et al.) is much more marketable than one from SUNY Stony Brook. BUT! A lot of the recent layoffs seen have been in sectors that MBAs tend to gravitate towards, so in the immediate future there will be a lot of competition amongst peers for jobs.

In addition, with people getting laid off the competition for enrollment in these programs is likely to increase in the short term as well.

Northeastern is not a prestige school.

I agree with TheFed. Your career prospects are entirely dependent upon the industry you want to go into and the competition you will be facing from more marketable (prestigious) schools.

If you want to go into investment banking, forget it if you don't have an MBA from Wharton/Harvard/Stanford/NYU/Chicago/Columbia. Especially in this economy.

If you want to go into management consulting much the same applies.

Ditto private equity, venture capital (though here the rules are slightly dependent if you are looking to work in Silicon Valley).

Other industries probably have different standards.

So, again, the answer to your original question is dependent upon the industry you want to work in.

thanks for the article.

So is it worth it go et an MBA from a non-presitgious school? I doubt I can get into Harvard or Wharton, especially since nobody in my family has ever gone to them.

Having family connections is not a relevant criteria for admission to either Wharton or Harvard unless your family has wealth sufficient to make a donation to those schools' operating budgets. Which it sounds like is not relevant to you in any event.

Those schools admit primarily on the basis of exceptional undergraduate GPA, high GMAT score and significant work experience.

Whether getting an MBA at a less prestigious school is worth it to you is an answer only you can figure out. Perhaps quantify it by summing up all the costs (books, tuition, foregone income) and see if the income you think you can earn after getting the MBA is sufficient to recoup those costs.

I got my undergraduate degree in legal studies from an online university (not Univ. of Phoenix, but on that level) and graduated with a 4.0 GPA. But I usually don't do well on exams like the SAT and GMAT. Do I stand a chance of getting into a good school?

To be honest: probably not. Is the online university you got your degree from accredited? Even if it is, understand that top MBA programs select from the cream of the crop, so unless you have some phenomenally unique experience that your average undergrad from, say, Princeton or Caltech does not (I don't know, say, hunting down Osama Bin Laden), your chances of being admitted to a top program are small.

Yes, it has the same acrediadation as any other campus based school. It's not one of these diploma mills that sell degrees for $500.

>>> " understand that top MBA programs select from the cream of the crop, so unless you have some phenomenally unique experience that your average undergrad from, say, Princeton or Caltech does not"

Having gone to a top-5 undergrad and business school, the vast majority of my classmates from my undergradaute school got into a top business school - if not Harvard/Wharton/Stanford than at least Columbia/Kellog/Chicago/MIT type schools. It's competitive, but people overstate how "unique" you have to be. If you went to Penn or Dartmouth or Duke or Princeton, had a 3.3 GPA or higher (which most gradates of these schoosl do) you get a halfway decent job - consulting, banking, something entpreneurial, or decent promotion track record at a Fortune 500 company in something like engineering or marketing - and get a 700 on your GMAT, your chances of getting into at least one top 10 school are pretty good. I literally can't think of a SINGLE person who has this background who did not get into at least one top business school. On the whole, I found the people I went to business school on the whole less impressive than my undergraduate classmates, and this view was shared by many of my classmates at business school who went to top undergraduate schools.

Generally I am underwhelmed and believe graduates of these schools aren't that impressive: there are certainly some but many lack common sense, social skills, etc. But perception is 9/10 of reality and there is no doubt it opens doors so it's hard to argue with it.

I went to a pretty good public university for my MBA part time and although it's worked out for me (lots of other factors involved there), I would recommend going to the best possible school you can get into. An executive MBA is sometimes an easier way in but not sure what your work circumstances are.

To be honest, an online MBA won't get you very far. Depending on what kind of field you are in, you could try a different kind of accreditation such as CFA, CPA, etc. as opposed to an online MBA.

> The NY Times had an article about MBA's and the lost opportunities and experience to people who get
> right into banking.

Yes, they wrote that at the peak of the bubble. Hell, they write that at the peak of EVERY bubble. When banks are hiring like mad, they promote analysts to associates straight through all the time. When WS is in the shitter, its the rare few who make it through. The cycle always works this way. And the press is always surprised each time. Morons.

> If you want to go into investment banking, forget it if you don't have an MBA from
> forget it if you don't have an MBA from Wharton/Harvard/Stanford/NYU/Chicago/Columbia
> If you want to go into management consulting much the same applies.

Interesting how you stuck NYU into there. There are a bunch of schools with better odds than NYU and even Columbia. Kellog and Tuck do MUCH better in recruiting... with the only exception being second and third tier banks who don't recruit out of NYC.

I recall years where NYU skipped stern but still hit 20 b schools.

nyc10022: A lot of the people I work with have MBAs from Stern, so who knows? Personally I am getting a CFA and skipping business school but that is very much specific to finance.

Fakestate.... don't forget that banks go to 2nd and 3rd tier schools in good times. Then drop 'em like a bad habit when things aren't so good.

I remember when McKinsey was going to 3rd tier schools, like the 2nd best public school in some states.

Dumb question...Tuck. Is that Dartmouth?

yup. They do extremely well with consulting firms, its very team-based.

I've also seen firms recruit at Darden and Haas and skip NYU (and we're talking about places with NYC offices)

As far as an online MBA notr getting me very far, I intend to get one from a campus based school and their degrees do not say the word "online" on it. So I doubt it will make a difference, will it?

You will need a Harvard MBA, a good coke dealer, and a misogynistic attitude if you want to make it in this economy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzz4QtbTu6M

I don't think I can get into a good school like Harvard. Besides, I would imagine that only 5% or so of MBA gruadtes went to top tier schools. So what about the other 95%? What do they do? Certainly they are not all cleaning tables at McDonalds.

I think that a lot of people who can't hack a Top 10 MBA program simply enroll in the Yale School of Management. See the below link for more details on their offerings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NyzQwwO4Os&NR=1

> I think that a lot of people who can't hack a Top 10 MBA program simply enroll in the Yale School of
> Management

Interesting... because its IN the top 10. Rates #8 by Forbes and #8 by Wall Street Journal and #9 in the US by the Financial Times...

I have not read all the posts but am chiming in because I have asked myself time and again if getting my MBA was worth it. Unless you get an MBA from a top tier school-- getting one will not really help you professionally. An MBA requires a large financial and time commitment. I have mine-- from a mediocre school. My former company paid for half. I was no more on the fast track to management as any other colleague with similar talents/experience/networking skills etc. My husband still makes quite a bit more than me with out a graduate degree. Simply because of the fields we are in. I am in marketing-- he is in IT.

If you want it for personal reasons-- I say go for it. If you are chasing a big salary—look closely at what is in demand.

"I remember when McKinsey was going to 3rd tier schools, like the 2nd best public school in some states."

Really? When was this?

Nevermind- found it.

link to article

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9405E6D61230F930A15751C0A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

"I remember when McKinsey was going to 3rd tier schools, like the 2nd best public school in some states."

I don't mean to flame, but you must be remembering incorrectly. It has long been among the hardest places to land a position anywhere, and actually holding a top MBA isn't even good enough to get your foot in. In fact, they don't really like hiring MBAs per se.

Specifically, they have been aggressively recruit people with liberal arts/science Ph.D.s at the VERY top institutions like Ivies, MIT, CalTech, Duke, Stanford, etc. I have interned there as an undergrad, and people from othrwise good schools like NYU and Binghamton were definitely VERY rare and, sadly, at a huge disadvantage in their teams. Their clients--especially international ones--are also highly brand conscious when it comes to their consultants' schooling.

An MBA from a second-rate or third-rate institution would be unlikely to get you there.

"I don't mean to flame, but you must be remembering incorrectly. It has long been among the hardest places to land a position anywhere, and actually holding a top MBA isn't even good enough to get your foot in. In fact, they don't really like hiring MBAs per se."

No, I'm remembering fine... you are just mistaken. They hire more MBAs than any other degree. And they are usually the #1 hirer of Harvard MBAs. They have made a huge effort to expand the degrees they hire from, because it does go with their sell pretty well, but pretending McKinsey is anti-MBA means you just don't know McKinsey.

Specifically, they have been aggressively recruit people with liberal arts/science Ph.D.s at the VERY "top institutions like Ivies, MIT, CalTech, Duke, Stanford, etc. "

I don't disagree, but you are completely mistaken if you think they put more effort into that recruitment than they do MBAs.

They hire more MBAs. A LOT more MBAs.

"I have interned there as an undergrad, and people from othrwise good schools like NYU and Binghamton were definitely VERY rare and, sadly, at a huge disadvantage in their teams."

Rare, but they were hired. Thats the point. 20 years ago, if you said Binghamton in the same sentence as McKinsey, you were laughed at. but times change. Didn't say it became "normal", but when they crossed that line, it was pretty remarkable.

As I said, back to the original point, in big hiring years they absolutely lowered standards.

Wow, I missed MMA's link.

But, there you go... as I said, McKinsey's standards declined when it went into big hiring mode...

Thanks, MMA.

I got my MBA a few years back. Very individual decision, both professionally and personally. But in general, if you have a solid job/career now, an MBA from a non-top tier school will do very little for you, unless you job explicitly requires it.

What ever happened to getting an MBA for increased knowledge, self-improvement, and the enjoyment of learning? If those are your goals,which you should seriously consider, then by all means go ahead and get it!

newbuyer99 & NYRENewbie--I couldn't agree more.

Then...this is addressed to some others: That's fine, and it is fascinating to see how drastically the experiences of the insiders and outsiders' perspectives differ. Also, I guess people believe and JOURNALISTIC WRITERS report whatever they want to regardless of "reality," just like everything else--including the RE market! If someone already believes that an online degree is as valuable as a campus-based top-tier degree, then it's hard to convince them otherwise. So be it.

But, whoa, I really admire someone who can be so unequivocal about places they have never worked. I said I interned there as an undergrad, but I didn't say my association with McKinsey ended there... People are hired for different "tracks" at McKinsey, and the fastest track to the team leaders is the Ph.D. hires, rather than MBAs (but someone from outside will probably come back and say, "that's not true..."). Sure, we do hire a LOT of MBAs, some of whom from less-than-impressive schools, but they are definitely not placed in the same tracks as others, unless they are politically connected. It won't help the organization if we didn't have people with different job descriptions (some people need to be the brains, and others need to provide the logistical support).... It's not like we are all given the same capacity once we enter, you know...

nyc212, agreed. I pulled up that old article as I was interested in an 'outsider' historical reference of the Firm during the DotBust era. Quite interesting. I.Davis outlined how the Firm has learned from that experience during a brief session when he visited us. Cheers!

> Sure, we do hire a LOT of MBAs, some of whom from less-than-impressive schools,

Thank you, case closed. So you can take this back now...

"I don't mean to flame, but you must be remembering incorrectly. It has long been among the hardest places to land a position anywhere, and actually holding a top MBA isn't even good enough to get your foot in. In fact, they don't really like hiring MBAs per se."

You've admitted that was 100% wrong...

"What ever happened to getting an MBA for increased knowledge, self-improvement, and the enjoyment of learning?"

Nothing "happened to" it, it was never true.

If its those things you want, it is not an MBA you are looking for... which is relatively vocational and has little depth (the challenges of teaching finance to cohorts with members who didn't touch numbers in their careers, and marketing to hardcore finance types). My first year ivy phd friend - one year out of undergrad - was teaching MBA students finance.

If its those things you want, try a different degree. Even if in finance.

>>> What ever happened to getting an MBA for increased knowledge, self-improvement, and the enjoyment of learning?"

>>> Nothing "happened to" it, it was never true.

So true! MBA is not about finding yourself. It's a professional degree and actually you don't learn much (maybe a little in the finance classes, but even a lot of this is theory with little real world relevance). It's kind of a joke. I'm not denying it can open doors if you go to a top schools - although I still maintain the people are on the somewhat less intelligent than at an Ivy League undergraduate school. Employers use it less because of "what you learn" than because it's a decent weeding out process (although, again, even the top schools aren't actually that selective). That an that if somebody is willing to invest $150k in their career, it shows motivation.

> although I still maintain the people are on the somewhat less intelligent than at an Ivy League
> undergraduate school.

Agreed... look at the Harvard MBA classes compared to Harvard undergrad. Lots of 2nd and 3rd tier schools, and the GPAs aren't even that high. Lots of folks who had no shot at any ivy league school. In search of "diversity", they'll take folks with 10 years of manufacturing experience without a whole lot of academic strength.

In my opinion, the most bang-for-the-buck from an MBA comes from using it to change careers. In a down market, industry mobility decreases considerably. My experience getting my MBA in 2004 was that in a difficult hiring market, companies focus on hiring MBAs with prior experience in that field. The other major benefit from an MBA is the network. The less prestigious the school, however, the less powerful the network is as well it becomes more constricted to a certain geographic region.

well said, enfuego.

I have noticed that it does become a "reset" for a lot of people. I noticed that new MBAs are a lot less likely to be asked for references.