COMPLETE List of Land Lease Buidlings in Manhattan

Started by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009
Discussion about
Please verify these and add as appropriate: 100 West 57th Street Carnegie House 101 West 23rd Street 116 west 22nd st SOMA 150 East 61st Street 167 E 61st St Trump Plaza 175 East 62nd Street #8A 177 9th Avenue Chelsea Enclave 190 East 72nd Street 215 East 96th St One Carnegie Hill 24 5th Avenue 301 East 63rd Street 303 East 57th Street Excelsior 310 E 46 street 34 Leonard Street 343 east 76th 420 E 51st 50 East 8th Street 520 West 23rd Street Marais 575 Park Avenue The Beekman 91st Street and First Avenue Azure 995 Fifth The Stanhope 419 West 55th Battery Park City Tudor City
Jeeze, edits already:
100 West 57th Street Carnegie House
101 West 23rd Street
116 west 22nd st SOMA
150 East 61st Street
167 E 61st St Trump Plaza
175 East 62nd Street #8A
177 9th Avenue Chelsea Enclave
190 East 72nd Street
215 East 96th St One Carnegie Hill
24 5th Avenue
301 East 63rd Street
303 East 57th Street Excelsior
310 E 46 street
34 Leonard Street
343 east 76th
420 E 51st
425 East 58th Street Sovereign
50 East 8th Street
520 West 23rd Street Marais
575 Park Avenue The Beekman
333 Est 91st Street Azure
995 Fifth The Stanhope
419 West 55th
Battery Park City
Tudor City
West34 - I just checked and 2 Tudor City Place is the ONLY building in Tudor City with a ground lease.
Thanks. And the list expands:
100 West 57th Street Carnegie House
101 West 23rd Street
116 west 22nd st SOMA
142 Duane Street
150 East 61st Street
167 E 61st St Trump Plaza
175 East 62nd Street #8A
177 9th Avenue Chelsea Enclave
190 East 72nd Street
2 Tudor City Place
205 East 63rd
215 East 96th St One Carnegie Hill
24 5th Avenue
301 East 63rd Street
303 East 57th Street Excelsior
310 E 46 street
34 Leonard Street
343 east 76th
419 West 55th Loft 55
420 E 51st
425 East 58th Street Sovereign
50 East 8th Street
54 East 8th Street
520 West 23rd Street Marais
575 Park Avenue The Beekman
333 Est 91st Street Azure
995 Fifth The Stanhope
419 West 55th
Battery Park City (various)
I thought 301 E 63rd purchased the land. I know nothing about the building or the neighborhood, but I always open land lease threads just to look at the inevitable trainwreck within. 301 E 63rd St is a good case study of how bad things look even when the co-op is able to escape.
The whole idea of land lease is insane. I almost feel like it should be made illegal just to protect idiots from themselves.
lad you are correct. I'll update the list after more edits roll in. Thanks
110 Central Park South
100 West 57th Street Carnegie House
101 West 23rd Street
110 Central Park South (leasehold condop)
116 west 22nd st SOMA
142 Duane Street
150 East 61st Street
167 E 61st St Trump Plaza
175 East 62nd Street #8A
177 9th Avenue Chelsea Enclave
190 East 72nd Street
2 Tudor City Place
205 East 63rd
215 East 96th St One Carnegie Hill
24 5th Avenue
303 East 57th Street Excelsior
310 E 46 street
34 Leonard Street
343 east 76th
419 West 55th Loft 55
420 E 51st
425 East 58th Street Sovereign
445 Lafayette - Astor Place (leasehold condop)
50 East 8th Street
54 East 8th Street
520 West 23rd Street Marais
575 Park Avenue The Beekman
333 Est 91st Street Azure
995 Fifth The Stanhope
419 West 55th
Battery Park City (various)
305 W 16th
242 East 25th Street
Re: 425 East 58th Street Sovereign, the co-op started out with a ground lease in 1983, but bought the land in 1983.
It's a pretty tangled history, but the lease ran until 2048 with an unchanging annual rent of $750,000 and the right to buy the land for $7,000,000.
Oops, first date was 1973.
So we're scratching 425 E58th?
I thought a huge chunk of FiDi was leased?
Yes, though at $111,000 of underlying mortgage per apartment, it has other issues that jack up the maintenance. I don't know whether that's accounted for in where things close.
4 West 21st?
Updated, with added notes:
100 West 57th - Carnegie House
101 West 23rd
110 Central Park South (leasehold condop)
116 West 22nd - SOMA
142 Duane
150 East 61st
167 East 61st - Trump Plaza
175 East 62nd
177 9th Ave - Chelsea Enclave
190 East 72nd
2 Tudor City Place
205 East 63rd
215 East 96th - One Carnegie Hill
24 5th Ave
242 East 25th
303 East 57th - Excelsior
305 West 16th (leasehold condop)
310 East 46
333 East 91st - Azure
34 Leonard
343 East 74th
4 West 21st - 4W21 (marketed as condop but really landlease coop)
419 West 55th - Loft 55
420 East 51st
445 Lafayette - Astor Place (leasehold condop)
50 East 8th
54 East 8th
520 West 23rd - Marais
575 Park Avenue - The Beekman
995 Fifth Ave - The Stanhope
Battery Park City (various buildings)
27 East 65th st is a land lease bldg.
Thanks nyc2186!
50 Gramercy Park North is on a land lease
88 Monringside
Looks like J. Aniston isnt bothered by land lease:
http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/jennifer-aniston-buys-apartment-at-50-gramery-park-north-listed-with-prudential-douglas-elliman-s-lisa-simonsen-and-laura-mondrick
100 West 57th - Carnegie House
101 West 23rd
110 Central Park South (leasehold condop)
116 West 22nd - SOMA
142 Duane
150 East 61st
167 East 61st - Trump Plaza
175 East 62nd
177 9th Ave - Chelsea Enclave
190 East 72nd
2 Tudor City Place
205 East 63rd
215 East 96th - One Carnegie Hill
24 5th Ave
242 East 25th
27 East 65th
303 East 57th - Excelsior
305 West 16th (leasehold condop)
310 East 46
333 East 91st - Azure
34 Leonard
343 East 74th
4 West 21st - 4W21 (marketed as "condop" but really landlease coop)
419 West 55th - Loft 55
420 East 51st
445 Lafayette - Astor Place (leasehold condop?)
50 East 8th
50 Gramercy Park North (called both a coop and a condo - condop?)
54 East 8th
520 West 23rd - Marais
575 Park Avenue - The Beekman
88 Morningside (Central Harlem)
995 Fifth Ave - The Stanhope
Battery Park City (various buildings)
Streeteasy crowdsourcing brings fame!
http://ny.curbed.com/tags/land-lease-buildings
lucida is on a land lease.
Lucida is a condo. Only the rental/retail portion of the development is land lease:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/15470-the-lucida-condos-are-subject-to-a-land-lease
Condos can't have ground leases: FYI. Only co-ops.
BPC is a ground lease, but it's owned by NYS, and the rent is in lieu of property taxes. No biggie.
>Condos can't have ground leases: FYI. Only co-ops.
>BPC is a ground lease, but it's owned by NYS, and the rent is in lieu of property taxes. No biggie
So the buildings in BPC are co-ops?
For once I have to agree with huntersburg. BPC is all condo (or rental). We should probably scratch BPC from the list since the whole PILOT thing is unique and the structure isn't land lease in the conventional sense.
PS -- personally what scares me about BPC isnt the govt owned land or the higher maintenance, it's the mandatory evacuation for x days every time a noreaster blows in!
BPC has a different legal structure than land-lease buildings elsewhere.
Updated:
100 West 57th - Carnegie House
101 West 23rd
110 Central Park South (leasehold condop)
116 West 22nd - SOMA
142 Duane
150 East 61st
167 East 61st - Trump Plaza
175 East 62nd
177 9th Ave - Chelsea Enclave
190 East 72nd
2 Tudor City Place
205 East 63rd
215 East 96th - One Carnegie Hill
24 5th Ave
242 East 25th
27 East 65th
303 East 57th - Excelsior
305 West 16th (leasehold condop)
310 East 46
333 East 91st - Azure
34 Leonard
343 East 74th
4 West 21st - 4W21 (marketed as "condop" but really landlease coop)
419 West 55th - Loft 55
420 East 51st
445 Lafayette - Astor Place (leasehold condop?)
50 East 8th
50 Gramercy Park North
54 East 8th
520 West 23rd - Marais
575 Park Avenue - The Beekman
88 Morningside (Central Harlem)
995 Fifth Ave - The Stanhope
*Battery Park City (*condos on gov't land w/ PILOT)
All of Roosevelt Island.
One Brooklyn Bridge Park.
Condos are specifically not allowed on land leases by state law, except in BPC, Roosevelt Island, and Brooklyn Bridge Park), which are specifically allowed in the condo law. Like BPC, Roosevelt Island and Brooklyn Bridge Park pay ground rent in lieu of taxes.
And, obviously this is a list of buildings in Manhattan.
Which Roosevelt Island technically is, but Brooklyn Bridge Park obviously is not.
Did anyone mention 48 Bond Street?
Did anyone mention 48 Bond Street?
Nice add.
Funny how prices in these new high end buildings (eg 48 Bond, 50 GPN) seem completely unaffected by the ground lease. In 50 years.....?
40 East 80th Street
465 Park Ave (Ritz Tower)?
Updated. Still looking for adds. There have to be more.
100 West 57th - Carnegie House
101 West 23rd
110 Central Park South (leasehold condop)
116 West 22nd - SOMA
142 Duane
150 East 61st
167 East 61st - Trump Plaza
175 East 62nd
177 9th Ave - Chelsea Enclave
190 East 72nd
2 Tudor City Place
205 East 63rd
215 East 96th - One Carnegie Hill
24 5th Ave
242 East 25th
27 East 65th
303 East 57th - Excelsior
305 West 16th (leasehold condop)
333 East 91st - Azure
34 Leonard
343 East 74th
4 West 21st - 4W21 (marketed as "condop" but really landlease coop)
40 East 80th (need verification)
419 West 55th - Loft 55
420 East 51st
445 Lafayette - Astor Place (leasehold condop?)
465 Park Ave - Ritz Tower (need verification)
48 Bond Street
50 East 8th
50 Gramercy Park North
54 East 8th
520 West 23rd - Marais
575 Park Avenue - The Beekman
88 Morningside (Central Harlem)
995 Fifth Ave - The Stanhope
*Battery Park City (*condos on gov't land w/ PILOT)
Used to be land lease but no longer:
301 East 63rd Street (purchased land)
425 East 58th - Sovereign (purchased land)
201 East 77th Street
Re: 201 East 77th Street
reports indicate land was purchased by coop in 2004.
what the heck is a land lease? Land Lease and Ground Lease sound like the exact same thing to me.
They are.
Re: what the heck is a land lease?
Hey Jeremy Clarkson, what the f is a bonnet? It's a hood dammit!
does anyone know for sure that a condo cannot be built on ground leased land and is there a reference somewhere
NYS allows for leasehold condominiums in Battery Park City, Roosevelt Island, Brooklyn Bridge Park, Queens West, etc. See http://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/2006/real-property/rpp0339-e_339-e.html
There might be other exceptions.
Brooklyn edition:
100 Remsen Street
Where can we get a list of the major land lease owners?
There isn't one, as far as I know.
If you want a project, start with a lender's list of co-ops, e.g. http://worldonefinancial.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/coop-listing-citi-2012.pdf
For each co-op with a ground lease, look up the lot on ACRIS and try to find a recorded deed, lease, or memorandum of lease. Many of the owners will be LLCs, so research the addresses, signatories, related-party deeds, etc. of each to determine the actual owner. It'll very often be a religious institution or the heirs of a land-owning family.
To really get a broad picture, you'd need to also research commercial buildings held under ground leases. I don't know how you'd even get started with that.
maybe land lease includes everything underground (oil, gas etc), but ground lease covers the surface only?
I believe 2025 Broadway, The Nevada still has a land lease.
No, it never had a lease. It's a two-unit condo; one commercial and one residential. The co-op owns its unit.
The Chelsea Enclave bought out their land lease about a year ago so you can take it off the list
Re: The Chelsea Enclave bought out their land lease about a year ago so you can take it off the list
Reports say Brodsky bought the land. Doesnt that simply make them the landowner rather than the seminary? The coop itself doesnt own the land so its still a land lease coop, no?
The Brodsky LLC sold the co-op's condo unit to the co-op at the end of 2011. What's odd is, in September 2012 the co-op filed a Memorandum of Lease where it is both Landlord and Tenant.
Are any of the following Land Lease buildings: 233 East 69th, 200 CPS, 10 West 66th & 475 Park?
310 East 46th is NOT a land lease. The coop owns the land for sure (there is a mortgage on it and the building).
115 EAst 87 Street has a land lease (from the City).
115 East 87 Street has a land lease (from the City).
What is the typical cost to purchase the land?
is there anyway I can find out when the lease expires on some of these land lease buildings?
101 West 23rd St.
Two more:
21 East 61st
70 Charlton
some list
Are there any land lease buildings in Brooklyn?
http://streeteasy.com/building/100-remsen-street-brooklyn
10 Bond St.
If a new development or conversion is a co-op rather than a condo, it's almost always a land lease. An exception is The Chatsworth. Don't know why they went for co-op rather than condo.
Is 200 CPS Land Leased?
I'm looking a unit in one of these buildings on the list and while it's a 99 year lease the rent is adjusted every 20 years based on the appraised value of the land, 7% of that is the new rent. Does anyone know whether this is common on land leases?
Yes, but 20 years is an unusually long reset period. Ten years is most frequent, but with those the rent is 6% of the value. With 7%, the co-op is paying more in the early years but less in the later years.
NWT, I hear the land values in manhattan at $700-1000 per buildable sq ft. There are naturally exceptions on the upside. Taking the lower value of $700 per sq ft, for a 1200 sq ft 2 bedroom translates into $840K. 6% of that is $50k or ~4k per month. Is that what the owner of an apartment in a landlease building is paying per year? Seems very high.
Also, does not see the land owner should sell as they are getting 6% cap rate which in this day is impossible to find in manhattan. I understand 6% would have been fine in higher interest rate era but in 2-3% rate era, this is very taxing for land-lease apartment owners. Thanks as always for the education.
When reset time comes, lawyers for the co-op and the landowner get competing appraisals, and work out a compromise. If the reset was within the last couple of years, with frothy land values, the co-op will suffer for the ten years, and hope it'll be lower the next go-round.
The land-owner doesn't want to sell. That's why they did the lease to begin with, rather than sell outright to the developer.
NWT the initial period was 20 years, thereafter every 10 years. This particular building the initial 20 year period is expiring in about 7 years. I did some rough calculations at about $500-600 a buildable foot and it looks like the maintenance will be going up about 90% over current levels which are about 25-40% higher than comparable non land lease apartments . You mentioned a potential compromise, maybe but that's not what happened in the 101 w 23 st case. I'm not big on government regulation but on co-op land leases I now agree with a previous commenter, they should be outlawed. Most consumers are not sophisticated to understand what's really going on.
115 East i87 purchased the land from the City several years ago.
Is 27 West 55 Street a land lease building? Thanks
Battery Park City land is owned by the State of New York and lease rents are paid to the State of N.Y. who returns part of the PILOT charge to pay the city to cover city real estate taxes. A little different from the land leases being owned by a developer and paid to a private developer. I believe that there is a time when the land lease can/will revert back to the condo owners but not sure about the timing and terms. Also the city of New York has the right to buy the land leases for $1. Not sure why they don't take advantage of that although they threaten to do so from time to time.
Brooklyn Point - 138 Willoughby St. (One City Point) - condo with land lease
does anyone have an updated list of apts in NYC that are land leases - would like to omit them from my search. THANKS!