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COMPLETE List of Land Lease Buidlings in Manhattan

Started by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009
Discussion about
Please verify these and add as appropriate: 100 West 57th Street Carnegie House 101 West 23rd Street 116 west 22nd st SOMA 150 East 61st Street 167 E 61st St Trump Plaza 175 East 62nd Street #8A 177 9th Avenue Chelsea Enclave 190 East 72nd Street 215 East 96th St One Carnegie Hill 24 5th Avenue 301 East 63rd Street 303 East 57th Street Excelsior 310 E 46 street 34 Leonard Street 343 east 76th 420 E 51st 50 East 8th Street 520 West 23rd Street Marais 575 Park Avenue The Beekman 91st Street and First Avenue Azure 995 Fifth The Stanhope 419 West 55th Battery Park City Tudor City
Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

Jeeze, edits already:

100 West 57th Street Carnegie House
101 West 23rd Street
116 west 22nd st SOMA
150 East 61st Street
167 E 61st St Trump Plaza
175 East 62nd Street #8A
177 9th Avenue Chelsea Enclave
190 East 72nd Street
215 East 96th St One Carnegie Hill
24 5th Avenue
301 East 63rd Street
303 East 57th Street Excelsior
310 E 46 street
34 Leonard Street
343 east 76th
420 E 51st
425 East 58th Street Sovereign
50 East 8th Street
520 West 23rd Street Marais
575 Park Avenue The Beekman
333 Est 91st Street Azure
995 Fifth The Stanhope
419 West 55th
Battery Park City
Tudor City

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Response by ph41
over 13 years ago
Posts: 3390
Member since: Feb 2008

West34 - I just checked and 2 Tudor City Place is the ONLY building in Tudor City with a ground lease.

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Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

Thanks. And the list expands:

100 West 57th Street Carnegie House
101 West 23rd Street
116 west 22nd st SOMA
142 Duane Street
150 East 61st Street
167 E 61st St Trump Plaza
175 East 62nd Street #8A
177 9th Avenue Chelsea Enclave
190 East 72nd Street
2 Tudor City Place
205 East 63rd
215 East 96th St One Carnegie Hill
24 5th Avenue
301 East 63rd Street
303 East 57th Street Excelsior
310 E 46 street
34 Leonard Street
343 east 76th
419 West 55th Loft 55
420 E 51st
425 East 58th Street Sovereign
50 East 8th Street
54 East 8th Street
520 West 23rd Street Marais
575 Park Avenue The Beekman
333 Est 91st Street Azure
995 Fifth The Stanhope
419 West 55th
Battery Park City (various)

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Response by lad
over 13 years ago
Posts: 707
Member since: Apr 2009

I thought 301 E 63rd purchased the land. I know nothing about the building or the neighborhood, but I always open land lease threads just to look at the inevitable trainwreck within. 301 E 63rd St is a good case study of how bad things look even when the co-op is able to escape.

The whole idea of land lease is insane. I almost feel like it should be made illegal just to protect idiots from themselves.

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Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

lad you are correct. I'll update the list after more edits roll in. Thanks

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Response by buster2056
over 13 years ago
Posts: 866
Member since: Sep 2007

110 Central Park South

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Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

100 West 57th Street Carnegie House
101 West 23rd Street
110 Central Park South (leasehold condop)
116 west 22nd st SOMA
142 Duane Street
150 East 61st Street
167 E 61st St Trump Plaza
175 East 62nd Street #8A
177 9th Avenue Chelsea Enclave
190 East 72nd Street
2 Tudor City Place
205 East 63rd
215 East 96th St One Carnegie Hill
24 5th Avenue
303 East 57th Street Excelsior
310 E 46 street
34 Leonard Street
343 east 76th
419 West 55th Loft 55
420 E 51st
425 East 58th Street Sovereign
445 Lafayette - Astor Place (leasehold condop)
50 East 8th Street
54 East 8th Street
520 West 23rd Street Marais
575 Park Avenue The Beekman
333 Est 91st Street Azure
995 Fifth The Stanhope
419 West 55th
Battery Park City (various)

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Response by West
over 13 years ago
Posts: 9
Member since: May 2009

305 W 16th

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Response by omega
over 13 years ago
Posts: 61
Member since: Sep 2010

242 East 25th Street

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Response by NWT
over 13 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008

Re: 425 East 58th Street Sovereign, the co-op started out with a ground lease in 1983, but bought the land in 1983.

It's a pretty tangled history, but the lease ran until 2048 with an unchanging annual rent of $750,000 and the right to buy the land for $7,000,000.

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Response by NWT
over 13 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008

Oops, first date was 1973.

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Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

So we're scratching 425 E58th?

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Response by hol4
over 13 years ago
Posts: 710
Member since: Nov 2008

I thought a huge chunk of FiDi was leased?

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Response by NWT
over 13 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008

Yes, though at $111,000 of underlying mortgage per apartment, it has other issues that jack up the maintenance. I don't know whether that's accounted for in where things close.

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Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

4 West 21st?

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Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

Updated, with added notes:

100 West 57th - Carnegie House
101 West 23rd
110 Central Park South (leasehold condop)
116 West 22nd - SOMA
142 Duane
150 East 61st
167 East 61st - Trump Plaza
175 East 62nd
177 9th Ave - Chelsea Enclave
190 East 72nd
2 Tudor City Place
205 East 63rd
215 East 96th - One Carnegie Hill
24 5th Ave
242 East 25th
303 East 57th - Excelsior
305 West 16th (leasehold condop)
310 East 46
333 East 91st - Azure
34 Leonard
343 East 74th
4 West 21st - 4W21 (marketed as condop but really landlease coop)
419 West 55th - Loft 55
420 East 51st
445 Lafayette - Astor Place (leasehold condop)
50 East 8th
54 East 8th
520 West 23rd - Marais
575 Park Avenue - The Beekman
995 Fifth Ave - The Stanhope
Battery Park City (various buildings)

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Response by nyc2186
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Oct 2011

27 East 65th st is a land lease bldg.

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Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

Thanks nyc2186!

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Response by 5912
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Mar 2009

50 Gramercy Park North is on a land lease

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Response by lowlyaptdwllr
over 13 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Jan 2009

88 Monringside

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Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

Looks like J. Aniston isnt bothered by land lease:
http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/jennifer-aniston-buys-apartment-at-50-gramery-park-north-listed-with-prudential-douglas-elliman-s-lisa-simonsen-and-laura-mondrick

100 West 57th - Carnegie House
101 West 23rd
110 Central Park South (leasehold condop)
116 West 22nd - SOMA
142 Duane
150 East 61st
167 East 61st - Trump Plaza
175 East 62nd
177 9th Ave - Chelsea Enclave
190 East 72nd
2 Tudor City Place
205 East 63rd
215 East 96th - One Carnegie Hill
24 5th Ave
242 East 25th
27 East 65th
303 East 57th - Excelsior
305 West 16th (leasehold condop)
310 East 46
333 East 91st - Azure
34 Leonard
343 East 74th
4 West 21st - 4W21 (marketed as "condop" but really landlease coop)
419 West 55th - Loft 55
420 East 51st
445 Lafayette - Astor Place (leasehold condop?)
50 East 8th
50 Gramercy Park North (called both a coop and a condo - condop?)
54 East 8th
520 West 23rd - Marais
575 Park Avenue - The Beekman
88 Morningside (Central Harlem)
995 Fifth Ave - The Stanhope
Battery Park City (various buildings)

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Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

Streeteasy crowdsourcing brings fame!

http://ny.curbed.com/tags/land-lease-buildings

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Response by vwademd
over 13 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Sep 2009

lucida is on a land lease.

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Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

Lucida is a condo. Only the rental/retail portion of the development is land lease:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/15470-the-lucida-condos-are-subject-to-a-land-lease

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Response by stevejhx
over 13 years ago
Posts: 12656
Member since: Feb 2008

Condos can't have ground leases: FYI. Only co-ops.

BPC is a ground lease, but it's owned by NYS, and the rent is in lieu of property taxes. No biggie.

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Response by huntersburg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 11329
Member since: Nov 2010

>Condos can't have ground leases: FYI. Only co-ops.
>BPC is a ground lease, but it's owned by NYS, and the rent is in lieu of property taxes. No biggie

So the buildings in BPC are co-ops?

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Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

For once I have to agree with huntersburg. BPC is all condo (or rental). We should probably scratch BPC from the list since the whole PILOT thing is unique and the structure isn't land lease in the conventional sense.
PS -- personally what scares me about BPC isnt the govt owned land or the higher maintenance, it's the mandatory evacuation for x days every time a noreaster blows in!

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Response by stevejhx
over 13 years ago
Posts: 12656
Member since: Feb 2008

BPC has a different legal structure than land-lease buildings elsewhere.

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Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

Updated:

100 West 57th - Carnegie House
101 West 23rd
110 Central Park South (leasehold condop)
116 West 22nd - SOMA
142 Duane
150 East 61st
167 East 61st - Trump Plaza
175 East 62nd
177 9th Ave - Chelsea Enclave
190 East 72nd
2 Tudor City Place
205 East 63rd
215 East 96th - One Carnegie Hill
24 5th Ave
242 East 25th
27 East 65th
303 East 57th - Excelsior
305 West 16th (leasehold condop)
310 East 46
333 East 91st - Azure
34 Leonard
343 East 74th
4 West 21st - 4W21 (marketed as "condop" but really landlease coop)
419 West 55th - Loft 55
420 East 51st
445 Lafayette - Astor Place (leasehold condop?)
50 East 8th
50 Gramercy Park North
54 East 8th
520 West 23rd - Marais
575 Park Avenue - The Beekman
88 Morningside (Central Harlem)
995 Fifth Ave - The Stanhope
*Battery Park City (*condos on gov't land w/ PILOT)

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Response by wellheythere
over 13 years ago
Posts: 166
Member since: Dec 2008

All of Roosevelt Island.
One Brooklyn Bridge Park.

Condos are specifically not allowed on land leases by state law, except in BPC, Roosevelt Island, and Brooklyn Bridge Park), which are specifically allowed in the condo law. Like BPC, Roosevelt Island and Brooklyn Bridge Park pay ground rent in lieu of taxes.

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Response by wellheythere
over 13 years ago
Posts: 166
Member since: Dec 2008

And, obviously this is a list of buildings in Manhattan.

Which Roosevelt Island technically is, but Brooklyn Bridge Park obviously is not.

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Response by ccs
over 13 years ago
Posts: 5
Member since: Dec 2008

Did anyone mention 48 Bond Street?

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Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

Did anyone mention 48 Bond Street?

Nice add.

Funny how prices in these new high end buildings (eg 48 Bond, 50 GPN) seem completely unaffected by the ground lease. In 50 years.....?

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Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

40 East 80th Street

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Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

465 Park Ave (Ritz Tower)?

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Response by West34
about 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

Updated. Still looking for adds. There have to be more.

100 West 57th - Carnegie House
101 West 23rd
110 Central Park South (leasehold condop)
116 West 22nd - SOMA
142 Duane
150 East 61st
167 East 61st - Trump Plaza
175 East 62nd
177 9th Ave - Chelsea Enclave
190 East 72nd
2 Tudor City Place
205 East 63rd
215 East 96th - One Carnegie Hill
24 5th Ave
242 East 25th
27 East 65th
303 East 57th - Excelsior
305 West 16th (leasehold condop)
333 East 91st - Azure
34 Leonard
343 East 74th
4 West 21st - 4W21 (marketed as "condop" but really landlease coop)
40 East 80th (need verification)
419 West 55th - Loft 55
420 East 51st
445 Lafayette - Astor Place (leasehold condop?)
465 Park Ave - Ritz Tower (need verification)
48 Bond Street
50 East 8th
50 Gramercy Park North
54 East 8th
520 West 23rd - Marais
575 Park Avenue - The Beekman
88 Morningside (Central Harlem)
995 Fifth Ave - The Stanhope
*Battery Park City (*condos on gov't land w/ PILOT)


Used to be land lease but no longer:
301 East 63rd Street (purchased land)
425 East 58th - Sovereign (purchased land)

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Response by Crashwait
about 13 years ago
Posts: 54
Member since: Nov 2008

201 East 77th Street

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Response by West34
about 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

Re: 201 East 77th Street

reports indicate land was purchased by coop in 2004.

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Response by lucasd
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 10
Member since: Jun 2010

what the heck is a land lease? Land Lease and Ground Lease sound like the exact same thing to me.

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Response by NWT
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008

They are.

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Response by West34
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

Re: what the heck is a land lease?

Hey Jeremy Clarkson, what the f is a bonnet? It's a hood dammit!

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Response by laurieshepard
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: May 2010

does anyone know for sure that a condo cannot be built on ground leased land and is there a reference somewhere

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Response by NWT
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008

NYS allows for leasehold condominiums in Battery Park City, Roosevelt Island, Brooklyn Bridge Park, Queens West, etc. See http://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/2006/real-property/rpp0339-e_339-e.html

There might be other exceptions.

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Response by West34
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

Brooklyn edition:

100 Remsen Street

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Response by greensdale
about 12 years ago
Posts: 3804
Member since: Sep 2012

Where can we get a list of the major land lease owners?

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Response by NWT
about 12 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008

There isn't one, as far as I know.

If you want a project, start with a lender's list of co-ops, e.g. http://worldonefinancial.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/coop-listing-citi-2012.pdf

For each co-op with a ground lease, look up the lot on ACRIS and try to find a recorded deed, lease, or memorandum of lease. Many of the owners will be LLCs, so research the addresses, signatories, related-party deeds, etc. of each to determine the actual owner. It'll very often be a religious institution or the heirs of a land-owning family.

To really get a broad picture, you'd need to also research commercial buildings held under ground leases. I don't know how you'd even get started with that.

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Response by caonima
about 12 years ago
Posts: 815
Member since: Apr 2010

maybe land lease includes everything underground (oil, gas etc), but ground lease covers the surface only?

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Response by lemony
about 12 years ago
Posts: 46
Member since: Mar 2008

I believe 2025 Broadway, The Nevada still has a land lease.

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Response by NWT
about 12 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008

No, it never had a lease. It's a two-unit condo; one commercial and one residential. The co-op owns its unit.

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Response by IN_THE_KNOW PRO
about 12 years ago
Posts: 27
Member since: Sep 2008

The Chelsea Enclave bought out their land lease about a year ago so you can take it off the list

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Response by West34
about 12 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009

Re: The Chelsea Enclave bought out their land lease about a year ago so you can take it off the list

Reports say Brodsky bought the land. Doesnt that simply make them the landowner rather than the seminary? The coop itself doesnt own the land so its still a land lease coop, no?

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Response by NWT
about 12 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008

The Brodsky LLC sold the co-op's condo unit to the co-op at the end of 2011. What's odd is, in September 2012 the co-op filed a Memorandum of Lease where it is both Landlord and Tenant.

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Response by EJUNG
about 12 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: May 2012

Are any of the following Land Lease buildings: 233 East 69th, 200 CPS, 10 West 66th & 475 Park?

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Response by sparkler
almost 12 years ago
Posts: 0
Member since: May 2013

310 East 46th is NOT a land lease. The coop owns the land for sure (there is a mortgage on it and the building).

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Response by bryan39727
over 11 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Mar 2009

115 EAst 87 Street has a land lease (from the City).

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Response by bryan39727
over 11 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Mar 2009

115 East 87 Street has a land lease (from the City).

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Response by gothamsboro
over 11 years ago
Posts: 536
Member since: Sep 2013

What is the typical cost to purchase the land?

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Response by apeksham
over 11 years ago
Posts: 0
Member since: Aug 2011

is there anyway I can find out when the lease expires on some of these land lease buildings?

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Response by Goatcap
almost 11 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Dec 2009

101 West 23rd St.

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Response by NWT
over 9 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008

Two more:

21 East 61st
70 Charlton

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Response by Admin2009
over 9 years ago
Posts: 380
Member since: Mar 2014

some list

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Response by fieldschester
over 9 years ago
Posts: 3525
Member since: Jul 2013

Are there any land lease buildings in Brooklyn?

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Response by NWT
over 9 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008
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Response by NWT
over 9 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008

10 Bond St.

If a new development or conversion is a co-op rather than a condo, it's almost always a land lease. An exception is The Chatsworth. Don't know why they went for co-op rather than condo.

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Response by MNW
over 8 years ago
Posts: 0
Member since: Jun 2014

Is 200 CPS Land Leased?

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Response by MichaelNYC
over 8 years ago
Posts: 26
Member since: Apr 2009

I'm looking a unit in one of these buildings on the list and while it's a 99 year lease the rent is adjusted every 20 years based on the appraised value of the land, 7% of that is the new rent. Does anyone know whether this is common on land leases?

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Response by NWT
over 8 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008

Yes, but 20 years is an unusually long reset period. Ten years is most frequent, but with those the rent is 6% of the value. With 7%, the co-op is paying more in the early years but less in the later years.

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Response by 300_mercer
over 8 years ago
Posts: 10217
Member since: Feb 2007

NWT, I hear the land values in manhattan at $700-1000 per buildable sq ft. There are naturally exceptions on the upside. Taking the lower value of $700 per sq ft, for a 1200 sq ft 2 bedroom translates into $840K. 6% of that is $50k or ~4k per month. Is that what the owner of an apartment in a landlease building is paying per year? Seems very high.

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Response by 300_mercer
over 8 years ago
Posts: 10217
Member since: Feb 2007

Also, does not see the land owner should sell as they are getting 6% cap rate which in this day is impossible to find in manhattan. I understand 6% would have been fine in higher interest rate era but in 2-3% rate era, this is very taxing for land-lease apartment owners. Thanks as always for the education.

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Response by NWT
over 8 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008

When reset time comes, lawyers for the co-op and the landowner get competing appraisals, and work out a compromise. If the reset was within the last couple of years, with frothy land values, the co-op will suffer for the ten years, and hope it'll be lower the next go-round.

The land-owner doesn't want to sell. That's why they did the lease to begin with, rather than sell outright to the developer.

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Response by MichaelNYC
about 8 years ago
Posts: 26
Member since: Apr 2009

NWT the initial period was 20 years, thereafter every 10 years. This particular building the initial 20 year period is expiring in about 7 years. I did some rough calculations at about $500-600 a buildable foot and it looks like the maintenance will be going up about 90% over current levels which are about 25-40% higher than comparable non land lease apartments . You mentioned a potential compromise, maybe but that's not what happened in the 101 w 23 st case. I'm not big on government regulation but on co-op land leases I now agree with a previous commenter, they should be outlawed. Most consumers are not sophisticated to understand what's really going on.

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Response by bryan39727
about 8 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Mar 2009

115 East i87 purchased the land from the City several years ago.

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Response by m66629
almost 7 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Feb 2012

Is 27 West 55 Street a land lease building? Thanks

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Response by anon2000
over 6 years ago
Posts: 0
Member since: Jul 2013

Battery Park City land is owned by the State of New York and lease rents are paid to the State of N.Y. who returns part of the PILOT charge to pay the city to cover city real estate taxes. A little different from the land leases being owned by a developer and paid to a private developer. I believe that there is a time when the land lease can/will revert back to the condo owners but not sure about the timing and terms. Also the city of New York has the right to buy the land leases for $1. Not sure why they don't take advantage of that although they threaten to do so from time to time.

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Response by JS14
over 3 years ago
Posts: 0
Member since: Oct 2016

Brooklyn Point - 138 Willoughby St. (One City Point) - condo with land lease

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Response by fbog
about 3 years ago
Posts: 0
Member since: Sep 2021

does anyone have an updated list of apts in NYC that are land leases - would like to omit them from my search. THANKS!

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