Chicago buried in murders More people have been murdered in Chicago this year than in New York - even though New York's population is three times greater. When Hudson's mother, brother and nephew were killed last month, they pushed the city's homicide total for the year to 436 and counting. New York has had 430 homicides. "We're not proud of it," Mayor Richard Daley said last week, as the killings... [more]
Chicago buried in murders
More people have been murdered in Chicago this year than in New York - even though New York's population is three times greater. When Hudson's mother, brother and nephew were killed last month, they pushed the city's homicide total for the year to 436 and counting. New York has had 430 homicides.
"We're not proud of it," Mayor Richard Daley said last week, as the killings put new scrutiny on Chicago's out-of-control crime as the city bids for the 2016 Olympics. "We'll get it down next year. We'll get it down. We'll do things differently."
Cops and criminologists say Chicago's stubborn murder rate is a product of larger forces that are tough to control - entrenched street gangs, a heavy drug trade and a culture of gunplay.
"Everyone has a gun," said Chicago police spokeswoman Monique Bond, who said a recent gun buyback program netted 7,000 weapons in three hours. "We've got 75,000 gang members - that's almost six gang members to one police officer."
The NYPD was able to make remarkable strides against seemingly intractable crime in the 1990s - tracking statistics to isolate hot spots, then flooding violent blocks with cops.
Chicago has tried similar strategies, creating a platoon of cops to saturate bloody neighborhoods.
Academics who study crime, though, say Chicago cops' history of brutal misconduct hurts their ability to curb violence - whether because residents don't trust police or because officers have recently been forced to abandon aggressive tactics.
Chicago also must deal with decades of gang warfare that divides the city, a factor that makes it harder to drive down crime with New York-style tactics.
"It's intergenerational," said Loyola University Chicago criminologist Arthur Lurigio. "If you ask gang members today, 'Why are you shooting and killing each other?' they can't really explain."
Chicago's new police superintendent, former FBI agent Jody Weis, is under pressure for results, especially if hometown hero Sen. Barack Obama is elected President from the country's big-city murder capital.
Weis plans to launch a mobile strike force of officers to saturate violent areas, search for gang members and arrest offenders who have open warrants.
But the city council has for decades resisted plans to redraw the police patrol map, permanently shifting cops from low-crime to high-crime areas.
Meanwhile, the economy is getting worse - which means cops, experts and average Englewood residents are bracing for more abandoned buildings, more desperation, more crime and more violence.
"There's no block safe right now because of the economic situation," said Gary Chapple, 41, who moved from Englewood to the far South Side to escape the violence - and hopes a President Obama can help bring change to his hometown.
"His message is about change, but he can't do it by himself," Chapple said. "It's going to focus attention. Everybody's going to wait to see what's going to happen. I pray that something strong happens."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2008/11/01/2008-11-01_chicago_buried_in_murders.html[less]
Response by alpine292
over 17 years ago
Posts: 2771
Member since: Jun 2008
paging rufus
Just curious rufus, did you get the bullet proof windoes installed on your condo yeat? It's going to be a BAD winter.
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Response by alanhart
over 17 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
Everyone agrees that the murder numbers in The City That Doesn't Work will stay constant or grow, even as the general exodus from Chicago ramps up, giving Chicago an urban murder rate unprecedented in worldwide history. Every study shows that to be true.
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Response by rufus
over 17 years ago
Posts: 1095
Member since: Jul 2008
i'll be living in either gold coast, river north, or streeterville. those neighborhoods are safer than manhattan. thanks for the concern though.
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Response by nyc10022
over 17 years ago
Posts: 9868
Member since: Aug 2008
But the murderers wear dockers, so they're upscale...
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Response by alanhart
over 17 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
Cracker Boy, could you really be so stupid as to believe the murderers won't penetrate more and more deeply into the few remaining semi-decent parts of Chicago? It's already started, with headlines-grabbing violent attacks in Lincoln Park on a weekly basis or so.
And it's getting tiresome having to shove the crime stats of the Gold Coast, River North and Streeterville in your mug again and again, but they are considerably more unsafe than even the worst parts of NYC, including the South Bronx and East New York. That's a fact, Cracker Jack.
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Response by rufus
over 17 years ago
Posts: 1095
Member since: Jul 2008
alanhart, you're an idiot if you think south bronx is less dangerous than gold coast.
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Response by alanhart
over 17 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
Cracker Boy, I can see why you can't find a job. You're too lazy to do a simple web search and find the data for yourself.
The following values are represented as an index, where the value 100 represents the national average.
Unless your going to build a wall around the ritzy areas of Chicago and turn them into a gated community, crime WILL arrive there, eventually.
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Response by NYbylr
over 17 years ago
Posts: 37
Member since: Jan 2008
The ratio of single to married households is 2:1 in Gold Coast but nearly 1:1 in Tremont. That says something.
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Response by rufus
over 17 years ago
Posts: 1095
Member since: Jul 2008
NYbylr, not surprised by that stat. gold coast is an extremely desirable neighborhood for young professionals. it's clean, trendy, and full of upscale restaurants, bars, and retail.
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Response by alanhart
over 17 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
No, Cracker Boy, your analysis of that datum is flawed beyond redemption. Young Chicago couples FLEE the city when their kids reach school age. And when they don't move to Texas, they have to move to Chicago's flat, depressing, utterly unlikeable suburbs.
Have you parsed the South Bronx - Gold Coast crime comparison yet? Are you going to share with us your remarkable talents for analysis/synthesis?
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Response by alanhart
over 17 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
alpine292, the point is that even without being turned into a wholly medieval walled city, the allegedly "good" lakeside neighborhoods of Chicago have crime rates that are multiples of those in the South Bronx. At best, a wall would only trap the crime victims, preventing them from escaping to Dallas or Houston.
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Response by kspeak
over 17 years ago
Posts: 813
Member since: Aug 2008
Alanhart, South Bronx is FAR more of famous, desirable destination than the Mold Coast. The South Bronx is a DESTINATION - yankee stadium, bronx zoo, arthur avenue.
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Response by rufus
over 17 years ago
Posts: 1095
Member since: Jul 2008
LOL! yeah, i'm sure south bronx has the upscale restaurants and bars that the gold coast has.
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Response by alanhart
over 17 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
Hey Cracker Boy old boy, how's that data analysis coming along? When will you have a deliverable for us?
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Response by nyc10022
over 17 years ago
Posts: 9868
Member since: Aug 2008
Be careful... don't let this get out... or we're going to have a rush of Gold Coast folks heading to the South Bronx for safety.
Oh wait, I forgot... they can't afford it.
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Response by rufus
over 17 years ago
Posts: 1095
Member since: Jul 2008
gold coast is home to multimillion dollar townhomes and luxury condos. you've obviously never been there.
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Response by nyc10022
over 17 years ago
Posts: 9868
Member since: Aug 2008
Rufus, even though it was proven that you have lied about ever being to NYC, I have in fact been in Chicago many times.
But, it only took once to tell it sucked.
That its "best" parts are less safe than the worst parts of NYC just makes it funny.
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Response by nyc10022
over 17 years ago
Posts: 9868
Member since: Aug 2008
Rufus, even though it was proven that you have lied about ever being to NYC, I have in fact been in Chicago many times.
But, it only took once to tell it sucked.
That its "best" parts are less safe than the worst parts of NYC just makes it funny.
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Response by nyc10022
over 17 years ago
Posts: 9868
Member since: Aug 2008
Rufus, even though it was proven that you have lied about ever being to NYC, I have in fact been in Chicago many times.
But, it only took once to tell it sucked.
That its "best" parts are less safe than the worst parts of NYC just makes it funny.
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Response by nyc10022
over 17 years ago
Posts: 9868
Member since: Aug 2008
Rufus, even though it was proven that you have lied about ever being to NYC, I have in fact been in Chicago many times.
But, it only took once to tell it sucked.
That its "best" parts are less safe than the worst parts of NYC just makes it funny.
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Response by rufus
over 17 years ago
Posts: 1095
Member since: Jul 2008
nyc10022, did you check out gold coast, river north, streeterville, michigan avenue, or lincoln park? what were your thoughts on those areas? in your opinion, how do they compare to manhattan?
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Response by kspeak
over 17 years ago
Posts: 813
Member since: Aug 2008
I have been to all of those place. Gold coast and licoln park are reasonably nice, but they lack NYC's vitality.
Really, to me, the best part about Chicago is that you're a shorter flight to skiing in the Rockies. Of course, you can't ski anywhere in the Midwest because it's flat, so you HAVE to fly.
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Response by nyc10022
over 17 years ago
Posts: 9868
Member since: Aug 2008
They're ok... the problem is they are in Chicago.
And that I could have gotten shot (I guess I was just lucky).
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Response by rufus
over 17 years ago
Posts: 1095
Member since: Jul 2008
kspeak, i agree that gold coast and lincoln park are not as crowded as manhattan, if that's what you mean by "vitality." but those two neighborhoods are more gentrified and nicer places to live, than places like chelsea, soho, midtown, murray hill, tribeca financial district, east village, or any place in brooklyn.
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Response by kspeak
over 17 years ago
Posts: 813
Member since: Aug 2008
Yeah, I guess I didn't go during a street fair. I bet if I went then I would have thought it was awesome.
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Response by alanhart
over 17 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
Hot dog!
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Response by alanhart
over 17 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
Cracker Boy says: 'kspeak, i agree that gold coast and lincoln park are not as crowded as manhattan, if that's what you mean by "vitality." '
Is this the same Cracker Boy who bemoans (and bewhines and besnivels) the notion that Chicago builds (or at leasts plans) a few ultrahighrises, while NY builds mostly midrise buildings? It sounds like he's starting to appreciate the downsides of such density.
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Response by nyc10022
over 17 years ago
Posts: 9868
Member since: Aug 2008
Rusu bemonans and bewhines and besnivels whatever will let him "justify" that Chicago doesn't suck. Its an old story already. Too bad Chicago does suck that bad (for him, that is).
Rufus should use his talents to promote Chicago tourism.
"IGNORE THE LIKELIHOOD OF GETTING SHOT AND CRAPPY ECONOMY... CHICAGO HAS DOCKERS AND STREET FAIRS"
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Response by kylewest
over 17 years ago
Posts: 4455
Member since: Aug 2007
rufus chooses to live in NYC. Hypocrite.
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Response by michaelkyleh
over 17 years ago
Posts: 92
Member since: Sep 2008
Let's get this clear; RUFUS DOES NOT LIVE IN NYC!!!
He was "quizzed" a while back and failed.
I'm begging to doubt he has ever stepped foot in NYC. He is a troll.
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Response by kylewest
over 17 years ago
Posts: 4455
Member since: Aug 2007
What a loser if he doesn't live in NY. To have so little to do that you troll RE websites of places you DON'T live so you can spew criticism? That's pathetic.
paging rufus
Just curious rufus, did you get the bullet proof windoes installed on your condo yeat? It's going to be a BAD winter.
Everyone agrees that the murder numbers in The City That Doesn't Work will stay constant or grow, even as the general exodus from Chicago ramps up, giving Chicago an urban murder rate unprecedented in worldwide history. Every study shows that to be true.
i'll be living in either gold coast, river north, or streeterville. those neighborhoods are safer than manhattan. thanks for the concern though.
But the murderers wear dockers, so they're upscale...
Cracker Boy, could you really be so stupid as to believe the murderers won't penetrate more and more deeply into the few remaining semi-decent parts of Chicago? It's already started, with headlines-grabbing violent attacks in Lincoln Park on a weekly basis or so.
And it's getting tiresome having to shove the crime stats of the Gold Coast, River North and Streeterville in your mug again and again, but they are considerably more unsafe than even the worst parts of NYC, including the South Bronx and East New York. That's a fact, Cracker Jack.
alanhart, you're an idiot if you think south bronx is less dangerous than gold coast.
Cracker Boy, I can see why you can't find a job. You're too lazy to do a simple web search and find the data for yourself.
The following values are represented as an index, where the value 100 represents the national average.
Gold Coast:
Total Crime Risk 181
Personal Crime Risk 294
Murder Risk 337
Rape Risk 208
Robbery Risk 416
Assault Risk 226
Property Crime Risk 101
Burglary Risk 92
Larceny Risk 110
Automotive Theft Risk 82
South Bronx:
Total Crime Risk 71
Personal Crime Risk 127
Murder Risk 143
Rape Risk 42
Robbery Risk 177
Assault Risk 108
Property Crime Risk 46
Burglary Risk 39
Larceny Risk 53
Automotive Theft Risk 37
can you provide a link? it's impossible that south bronx is safer than gold coast.
Anyone else hear Fezzik from the Princess Bride? "south bronx is safer than gold coast? INCONCEIVABLE!"
Err, I mean Vizzini, not Fezzik
Busted!
I had a professor in college who looked and sounded very similar to Vizzini. Unfortunately in any of his tirades he never blurted out "inconceivable!"
Indubitably:
http://homes.point2.com/Neighborhood/US/New-York/New-York-City/Bronx/Tremont-Demographics.aspx (Tremont is most of the South Bronx)
http://homes.point2.com/Neighborhood/US/Illinois/Cook-County/Chicago/Gold-Coast-Demographics.aspx
The agony of defeat.
Unless your going to build a wall around the ritzy areas of Chicago and turn them into a gated community, crime WILL arrive there, eventually.
The ratio of single to married households is 2:1 in Gold Coast but nearly 1:1 in Tremont. That says something.
NYbylr, not surprised by that stat. gold coast is an extremely desirable neighborhood for young professionals. it's clean, trendy, and full of upscale restaurants, bars, and retail.
No, Cracker Boy, your analysis of that datum is flawed beyond redemption. Young Chicago couples FLEE the city when their kids reach school age. And when they don't move to Texas, they have to move to Chicago's flat, depressing, utterly unlikeable suburbs.
Have you parsed the South Bronx - Gold Coast crime comparison yet? Are you going to share with us your remarkable talents for analysis/synthesis?
alpine292, the point is that even without being turned into a wholly medieval walled city, the allegedly "good" lakeside neighborhoods of Chicago have crime rates that are multiples of those in the South Bronx. At best, a wall would only trap the crime victims, preventing them from escaping to Dallas or Houston.
Alanhart, South Bronx is FAR more of famous, desirable destination than the Mold Coast. The South Bronx is a DESTINATION - yankee stadium, bronx zoo, arthur avenue.
LOL! yeah, i'm sure south bronx has the upscale restaurants and bars that the gold coast has.
Hey Cracker Boy old boy, how's that data analysis coming along? When will you have a deliverable for us?
Be careful... don't let this get out... or we're going to have a rush of Gold Coast folks heading to the South Bronx for safety.
Oh wait, I forgot... they can't afford it.
gold coast is home to multimillion dollar townhomes and luxury condos. you've obviously never been there.
Rufus, even though it was proven that you have lied about ever being to NYC, I have in fact been in Chicago many times.
But, it only took once to tell it sucked.
That its "best" parts are less safe than the worst parts of NYC just makes it funny.
Rufus, even though it was proven that you have lied about ever being to NYC, I have in fact been in Chicago many times.
But, it only took once to tell it sucked.
That its "best" parts are less safe than the worst parts of NYC just makes it funny.
Rufus, even though it was proven that you have lied about ever being to NYC, I have in fact been in Chicago many times.
But, it only took once to tell it sucked.
That its "best" parts are less safe than the worst parts of NYC just makes it funny.
Rufus, even though it was proven that you have lied about ever being to NYC, I have in fact been in Chicago many times.
But, it only took once to tell it sucked.
That its "best" parts are less safe than the worst parts of NYC just makes it funny.
nyc10022, did you check out gold coast, river north, streeterville, michigan avenue, or lincoln park? what were your thoughts on those areas? in your opinion, how do they compare to manhattan?
I have been to all of those place. Gold coast and licoln park are reasonably nice, but they lack NYC's vitality.
Really, to me, the best part about Chicago is that you're a shorter flight to skiing in the Rockies. Of course, you can't ski anywhere in the Midwest because it's flat, so you HAVE to fly.
They're ok... the problem is they are in Chicago.
And that I could have gotten shot (I guess I was just lucky).
kspeak, i agree that gold coast and lincoln park are not as crowded as manhattan, if that's what you mean by "vitality." but those two neighborhoods are more gentrified and nicer places to live, than places like chelsea, soho, midtown, murray hill, tribeca financial district, east village, or any place in brooklyn.
Yeah, I guess I didn't go during a street fair. I bet if I went then I would have thought it was awesome.
Hot dog!
Cracker Boy says: 'kspeak, i agree that gold coast and lincoln park are not as crowded as manhattan, if that's what you mean by "vitality." '
Is this the same Cracker Boy who bemoans (and bewhines and besnivels) the notion that Chicago builds (or at leasts plans) a few ultrahighrises, while NY builds mostly midrise buildings? It sounds like he's starting to appreciate the downsides of such density.
Rusu bemonans and bewhines and besnivels whatever will let him "justify" that Chicago doesn't suck. Its an old story already. Too bad Chicago does suck that bad (for him, that is).
Rufus should use his talents to promote Chicago tourism.
"IGNORE THE LIKELIHOOD OF GETTING SHOT AND CRAPPY ECONOMY... CHICAGO HAS DOCKERS AND STREET FAIRS"
rufus chooses to live in NYC. Hypocrite.
Let's get this clear; RUFUS DOES NOT LIVE IN NYC!!!
He was "quizzed" a while back and failed.
I'm begging to doubt he has ever stepped foot in NYC. He is a troll.
What a loser if he doesn't live in NY. To have so little to do that you troll RE websites of places you DON'T live so you can spew criticism? That's pathetic.