Businesses shutting down in upper east side

Rufie dear have we not shown that:

1) Unemployment is higher in Chicago
2) Crime is higher in Chicago, even when you look at the Gold Coast alone compared to the South Bronx
3) Chicago contains only 2 of the nation's 100 wealthiest zip code
4) Manhattan is significantly more educated.

how do you explain all these retail shutting down on upper east side? gold coast and river north are doing pretty well right now. this means that the people who frequent these places are less wealthier than those in chicago.

"less wealthier"

rufus i must conclude that you are an immature geek.

i am amused by your chicago vs ny arguments because the only argument that matters is that you live here, chose to do so as an adult, and are still living here!

stop posting these alarmist headlines and work on finding a job in chicago.

y'know, if you're going to post something relevant, please keep the conversation constructive. This isn't about Chicago vs. nyc, it's about a current RE phenomena.

Some UES buildings sold their retail space to new landlords and made a killing. Some of these commercial landlords didn't renew the leases of the long-term tenants because they either thought they could get higher rent or wanted to attract different tenants, or both. Then the economy started to turn, as a result your favorate nail place or corner eatery is no longer there and the new landlord can't find tenants.

BTW, Rufus, the article is about the UES east of Lexington; the comparable 'gold coast' is btw Lex & 5th Ave. No to knock the rest of the UES, just that we should compare apples-to-apples (besides I don't see many retail stores on Madison Ave. closing up)

I think we'll start to see MANY retailers on Madison closing up very soon. Saks Fifth Ave was trading at $11/share last month, it is now down to $3! Would it be at all surprising to anyone if they went bankrupt? No one wants to be seen carrying a $2,000 handbag nowadays - those days are gone. The reputation of Madison Ave. as the luxury goods capital of the world will soon be tarnished, just like the reputations of the i-banks, hedge funds, real estate companies, and private equity firms that fueled the luxury buying frenzy with toxic assets whose value somehow evaporated into thin air.

Wouldn't it seem logical that the luxury reputation of Madison Ave. will be one of the first things to "go" in 2009? I see this marking the beginning of NYC transforming itself from what it was 3 months ago (haven to wealthy families and "uptown gals") to something else entirely different!

The rules are changing. Will "uptown gals" still want to live here?"

mrsblogs, i agree entirely. NYC is no longer the center of wealth and prestige. It is declining rapidly. By 2012, it will be back into its 1970's form, an even dirtier grimy city ravaged by crime.

Rufus mrsblogs was talking about a particular type of luxury store. When i first moved near Fifth in the 60's in the late 70's Madison was filled with "old lady" type stores, even a store to buy accessories for horses, snd service stores--over priced hardware stores, supermarkets where you had to give the help your shopping list and more things that weren't consistent with my lifestyle--me being a 20something with disposable income

Madison Avenue changed with the times. It has never been and probably never will be a dirty grimy street

> how do you explain all these retail shutting down on upper east side?

Uh, construction. Because they have money to like, uh, build things here. Because people make real money here, not hot dog vendor money like in Chicago.

They tried building some things in Chicago (trump tower, etc.), but no one wanted to live there. Despite the fact thats its cheaper than Brooklyn prices. Hell, its not even comparable to GOOD Brooklyn. Chicago struggles to compete with the MARGINAL areas of Brooklyn.

1970s? When I think of Chicago in the 70's I think of "Good Times" and JJ Walker.

"The rules are changing. Will "uptown gals" still want to live here?""

Heck yeah - I'm not going anywhere! btw, mrsblogs, I grew up in a middle-class family, a far cry from the stereotypical 'old money' denizens of UES. Like my peers, we had to scrimp & save to buy a place. I've been to Chicago, nice city but it ain't NY.

Re: Madison Avenue, closures of these stores will be affected by different factors. Many of the high-end stores cater to crowds that are recession-proof, and many are located on Madison to 'showcase' their respective brands and don't generate huge profits anyway. That's not to say we won't see closures. But I think the empty stores in the rest of UES were a result of landlords trying to upgrade their retail tenants to look more like Madison Ave., and got stuck in the transition.

uptowngal, so you're one of those girls who moved to NYC after watching Sex and the City.

No matter how expensive NYC is, it will never be as clean and nice as Chicago.

"No one wants to be seen carrying a $2,000 handbag nowadays - those days are gone. "

I think mrs blogs just moved here.

I swear, TONS of people said the EXACT same thing after 9/11. Its a different era, showing off was over, folks would focus less on non-material, bla, bla bla... then, what 2 years later, we entered THE MOST OSTENTATIOUS TIME IN HISTORY. Oh yeah, they said that in 1987, too. I'm sure they said it in 1929, too.

Sorry, its crap. Absolute crap. There will be a trend for a few months, maybe even a year or two, but people are people. They are shallow. You can always count on it.

"No one wants to be seen carrying a $2,000 handbag nowadays - those days are gone."

Not really. It was the 2nd ave subway construction, which completely blocked off certain retail areas (when stuff a block over was fine), and then the con ed project that did the same 15 blocks south.

But, I guess rufus doesn't know because he's never been to NY.

nyc10022, i'm very aware of the 2nd avenue construction and con ed projects. i wrote a post about this a few weeks ago. manhattan is becoming unlivable due to so much construction, combined with the filth.

who wants to live in a construction warzone?

sorry, bad paste. The last comment was in response to this quote, not the one I pasted...

"I think the empty stores in the rest of UES were a result of landlords trying to upgrade their retail tenants to look more like Madison Ave., and got stuck in the transition."

when is the con ed project supposed to get finished? i really fee bad for all the people who have to live in that part of upper east side. it's such a terrible area.

Yes, electricity and indoor plumbing. So horrible.

I guess in Chicago they can only afford gas lanterns and hand cranked generators.

Rufus, do you count your outhouse in your square footage?

yeah, rufus, I model my life after shallow TV characters. And drink cosmos every night and still manage to wear size 2 designer clothes that I manage to afford on a freelance writer's salary while aspiring to date dysfunctional men.

On a ligher note, I agree w NYC10022, this city has always bounced back, and it will.

i'm a new yorker that spent 5 long years in chicago (grad school). when i first moved there, i had been struggling with how best to describe it. it is so over-rated as a city. after many months of struggling with it, i had the epiphany: it is, essentially, "a small town with tall buildings". miracle mile is, essentially, a glorified mall that is stretched out over a few blocks. i find very few redeeming qualities in chicago. to compare chicago as a "city" to new york is quite silly. i'd meet people all the time that stand around bragging about their wonderful lives in "the city" (ie, chicago). when they ask where i'm from and i mention new york, they usually ask a follow-up question about whether you mean new york city. yes, new york city. manhattan? yes manhattan. then they stfu because they know they're frauds. it's actually kinda entertaining. ... i understand that this all comes off perhaps very immature of me, but i always found it entertaining that it's the loudmouths that talk up their glam lives in the wonderful city of chicago that stfu when they're confronted with this dirty, nasty, inferior city of new york. they never start talking about how chicago is better than new york. i've just never heard that conversation.

interesting way to put it, Paul...