Are people walking away from deposits?

hope you have extremely deep pockets petrfitz (and not short little alligator arms)... you're going to get filled in like a jelly donut.

Why just 20%?

You're avoiding the 10% down folks? I guess you know those are guaranteed losses...

ihave deep pockets Adam. i cashed out of a building in January.

NYC10022 - you continue to be a moron

nyc10022 - I walked on a 10% deposit. I snagged 7% back. Last week.

mdasch,
what do you mean "snagged 7% back"?

> i cashed out of a building in January.

In January, he told us he was buying. Thing somebody has an honesty problem?

This guy will lie to his mother to push his agenda... he's clearly freaking out that his properties are tanking.

BTW, pertfiz, you avoided the question entirely.

Guess your offer is bullshit, too...

mdasch - on what basis were you able to recover part of your deposit?

hmm NYC10022 - is it not common to be buying when you have just sold?

Do you know anything about real estate?

Or do you look to buy when you have all your money tied up?

> Do you know anything about real estate?

Enough to know that you are an extremely poor investor (poor in both senses of the word).

hmm so your knowledge of real estate says that it is proof that someone is not buying if they just sold? Brilliant!

Please cite any fact that you have that I am a poor investor. you cant because it is a lie. Why do you lie all day long on these boards? Does it make you feel better about losing your banking job and paying someone else $4K per month in rent?

ok perrfitz - i am walking away from a large deposit most likely on an UES building. cant mention which one here. very large deposit - but given the state of the world, the declining state of pay, the truth is that if some of us close today and the world does not get better in a year or so and pay doesnt go back up that we will be forced to sell in a declining market and lose the deposit, the closing costs in and out, broker fees, and the difference between the carry and rent (and yes, its a few grand more given where jumbo rates are even with the tax benefit). dont kid yourself and think that there are not a lot of people who are unfortunately getting ready to do this - there are. some for $100k, us for more and i have heard of some over $700k - can they afford to walk, no - neither can i, but can i afford to close and have hte world not even get worse but just stay where it is today, no we cant. and no, we werent subprime or crap borrowers - fully documented, credit scores in the high 700s, pay over 2 years in a row well above whats needed and all that had to happen was the world needed to stay the same or even could get a touch worse than it did - but when pay is being cut 40% -60% or more one must decide, do i take the pain today (and its freaking painful) or do i put my family in a position of more pain tomorrow. sorry, the 1/4 of the deposit doesnt work - think it through, once we have to close and pay the transfer taxes and such in and out i lose more than the 1/4 you would pay - not much thought went into that 1/4, did it?

> Please cite any fact that you have that I am a poor investor.

Easy.... you said Manhattan RE prices would be going up... in January.

You couldn't prove you are a RE idiot more than that if you tried.

UES, I feel for you...

thanks, no one needs to feel for me. i do resent a lot of the folks out here that are ridicluing people that need to walk or people that buy expensive apts - truth is, some of us worked our butts off to make and save that money. some of us bought assuming the world stayed where or it was or got worse, not that things always got better. some bought assuming financing that has been around for 30 years would be around, not exotic loan products. i resent the govtstepping in to save every moron that borrowed 100% plus to buy something without any documentation or verification - hell, ifi they want to do that, step in and save our hardworking selves too - dont think for a moment that there arent a lot of us out there and that when we lose our money thats money that will not be spent in NYC and will not be there to help the economy....

UESguy - petrfitz 1/4 deal only works for you if you assign the purchase agreement (and the deposit) to him before closing, so that you do not incur the closing costs. He is also only offering this if you are walking away from a 20% deposit, not 10%. In other words, his deal would permit him to pick up the unit for 15% off the agreed-price, and permits you to get 1/4 of your deposit back. But I am not sure how many people put down a 20% deposit, and are willing to walk from it.

I agree... folks like you who worked hard and made what used to be considered sound investments, but got screwed by this crash deserve better. But, for what its worth, you are right... its going to bite ALL of us in the ass. You can't escape the economy now.

> deal would permit him to pick up the unit for 15% off the agreed-price

Another pertifz-brilliant move in a market down 20%..

pjc - with all due respect, i think you are missing the point on people walking. i do know of some 20% folk who are very seriously considering it and have heard that the brompton sales folks are unsure of how many walk-aways they will ahve but are expecting them and their buyers have 20% down. the point is, yes its tons to lose today, but if you lost your job after you posted that money or have taken a huge pay hit after you posted that money fine, you can close and be out the closing costs but how do you support the apt? maybe you can now for a year, 15 months, whatever, but what happens when the world is no better a year from now? y ou have lost a hell of a lot more than the 20% at that point - its happening

uesguy - I respect your responsible decision, it must be terribly hard, but the stress on yourself and family if conditions get worse and you need to struggle to live is not worth it. Believe me, your children would rather have a healthy whole you than a bigger apt.

uesguy: The best trades are always the hardest trades.

UESguy, I am particuarly interested in this thread because I, too, might have to walk away from my deposit - although it's only 10%, not 20%. Everything has moved in the wrong direction since we signed the contract nearly a year ago - the value of the unit has collapsed (other units in the same building have been marked down over 20%), my assets have taken a huge hit in the stock market, my projected income has gone down and, last but not least, I don't feel comfortable about job security. So I am in the same boat as many others -- losing our 10%, though incredibly painful, seems better than going forward and stressing about how we will be able to make mortgage payments on a place that has already lost more than 10% of its value. However, if I had 20% down, it would be a different calculation.

pjc - would that make it harder or easier - if it was 20% and you had to put htat extra 10% down, where would it come from - deplete savings even more and set you up for a bigger blow in a shorter period of time? my loss is huge, and i mean huge - will take a few years to make it back in the new world order of pay - but i cant afford to lose more and lose everything then. i cant take that risk, others can, i cant every night for the next 12-15 months wonder if tomorrow is the day i get more money again and when each tomorrow is shorter and shorter what then? i appreciate your position, and a huge lose to one may be pennies to another or vice versa, i sympathize as we are in the same boat.

tam - you dont know my wife! she would take the risk.....

Well, use, some people are eternal optimists, it can be a good thing, they are usually more fun to hang out with.

sad part is, i am an optimist in general - yet, have never felt more pessimistic about doing something even with all that we have on the line. i think its more her desire to own a home (yes we rent) and considers owning a true home where renting is not - also looks at how this puts us behind the 8 ball to be able to buy for a long while...she aint wrong, but closing and getting whalloped would be even worse

UESguy, good luck. Those subprime folks brought down the whole banking industry - if only we could go back to 2001. Honestly, we could have done without the faux profits of those years, the industry would be in good shape, and your wife would be a happy owner.

I'd also be curious to see how many people actually close on Linden & Harrison. Things have changed substantially in the last 1.5 years since the Linden sales office opened. As people walk, I wonder if the sponsors would renegotiate, my understanding is that their construction loan gets repaid before they get paid.

Dwell and PJS:

Long story short, the bank rescinded their commitment letter. The contract was poor; my lawyer did very little to protect me. However, the contract also was vague and lacked a clause stating that whether or not the commitment letter is rescinded, once given one, I have satisfied my contingency.

I hired a different lawyer.
We settled out of court.

UESguy,

I just read your posts. I do wish you the best of luck, as I was in the same position of you - only most likely with a smaller deposit.

I'd have been a fool to close on this condo. I've come up with all types of ways to rationalize the money I did lose from this whole mess, but to me, it came down by losing it now, or potentially losing it and far more later.

Have you tried to settle and get some back?

I'm only 24, and this would have been my first home purchase. As such, I didn't know enough going in; Nothing compared to what I know now. I spoke to many a lawyer. One of which, a cousin that I did some computer work for, that graduated from Harvard and Yale. Another, owning a successful title company, and a real estate attorney of many years. All told me all the cards were in the favour of the seller.

I was prepared to lose the whole deposit.

Luckily, the second attorney I hired knew of a case that was similar to mine. Lesson learned: Hire a good attorney.

Why not fight it instead of throwing in the towel completely?

M

uesguy and pjc - I am in the same boat and feel your pain. I went into contract for a Financial District condo at about $1,000 per sf last summer. I was expecting to close until Oct, then I came to the conclusion that the RE market was heading over a cliff. I lost my 10% but would have had to come up with another 10% plus closing costs. By the time I received my closing letter, I figured the price of the condo was down at least 20% from what I would be paying. My decision was confirmed when I went to another development in the area and prices were marked down 25%.
We all feel bad now, but I have a sense of relief that I did not throw good money after bad and that I still have some money left to buy, hopefully a better place, at much lower prices.

we did consult an atty - new development, really tough. to sue a deep pocket like that is never easy and in every sponsor contract one would also ahve to pay their legal fees if you lost. we have some money left, we arent ruined, but its a big hit - no we cant buy another place today, or prob a year from today, but the good news is that i dont think that matters. prices will still be coming down and i just dont think they come back up too quickly - all the signs point to lowering prces and add that to the savings nation we will be if even until our memories fade in 5 years or so and that alone wont let prices rise - throw in unemployment, credit, blah blah blah...