Sale at 115 Central Park West #8C

6.5-7.5

Wow. I have absolutely no idea what this is worth, but in case anybody cares, that is one of the more beautifully decorated apartments I have ever seen in this city and what an incredible floor plan. Obviously the buyer is going to be paying for the renovation, which looks very very recently done. Im still agog at this one. What incredible real estate porn. :-)

p09. I bid $6,499,999... cahink!

bfgross how dare you bring porn into this... just keep it at boobs level pls.

I bid $3.5MM... in the next go around :)... I'm sure some sucker is gonna get caught up in I'm living there forever! bug.... but he'll drop dead and the heirs will unload at $3.5 in the next go around :)

Doing!.. .Doing! ... dead cat bounce....

6.5-7.5 is a pipe dream. Not for that apartment. Never gets near there.

bfg: I'm going to go out on a limb here and speak from the head, instead of the heart. I know this building well, I am there visiting friends at least once a week. This is a great building sub 5mm. North of 5mm it blows. The entire lobby/first floor corridor reminds me of everything that was wrong with the 1960's in spite of the fact it was built generations prior. I have a basic view that NOTHING, except the most extraordinary of buildings will trade north of 2,000psf. Additionally, most apts that will trade north of 8mm need 4 bedrooms, not a master bedroom and a jack/jill combo kids room deal. The renovation is worth about 500psf = 1.9mm depreciated now to 1.5mm. This apt is about 3800sf give or take. 1500psf * 3800 = 5.7...throw in another 1mm for the view should make the apt about 5.7 + 1.5 + 1 =$8,200,000. So I bid 6.5mm and eventually settle somewhere in 7's. You are probably more right than either of us will say out loud, SOME IDIOT WILL OVER PAY, AND IT ONLY TAKES ONE.! Stribling is effectively on an idiot hunt. Think Madoff, hey, a fool and their money were lucky enough to have gotten together in the first place. btw, you want funny, check out apt number 17D in the same building, apt is 1/2 the size of this one. Also, owner is an agent for Corcoran.

p09 how do you know sft? I hate it when a RE Broker lives in a better bldg than me :) ... I guess a doc and I-banker is like riff-raff compared to a Corcoran Broker :)... but hate it more when a listing doesn't put sqft... It's like selling a car without putting in a make.... LMAS...

w67, I have been in the apt, my number is livable sqft...call it 3600-3900

patient 09: interesting comments. While I agree the Majestic is in the lower end of the truly first tier CPW buildings (I am thinking of the Dakota, 15, 88, 91, Kenilworth, Prasada, Beresford, etc as the first tier), its is still undoubtedly first-tier. I have not seen the lobby except peering in through the street, so I will defer to your opinion of the common spaces, which certainly have some bearing on the price as reflective of the building quality. However, in todays market, I still think a 3800 sq ft apartment (I agree with your guesstimate on size) on the eighth floor of a first rank CPW building with direct park views is worth more than 1500/psf, and thats with a run of the mill renovation. Heck, a well-located, nicely renovated but viewless classic six traded at or above that price a few months ago at 239 ( i know the market has changed, Im just sayin). I'm sure you'll agree with me that this apartment's renovation is not anything close to run-of-the-mill, though I dont have a great sense of cost on things like that. As for 3-BR vs 4-BR, clearly a buyer must love this renovation and layout, because he/she will certainly be paying for it. What Im trying to say, is that, while the 3-BR nature of the layout perhaps reduces the pool of potential buyers, the space one is getting for the price is reflective of a 4 BR-5BR apartment. Heck, just look at the scale of those rooms. In the end, there is a scarcity value to an apartment like this, and I dont think 2,000 psf captures it. I think that this, even today, is more like a 2500 psf item. I would be very surprised if it traded at less than 10mm.

It would suck to be in a situation right now where you own an apartment like this and you'd need to sell it to get the cash out and move on with your life. I see the market for this type of real estate (high end, luxury, over-the-top Manhattan apartment with astronomical maintenance costs) to be extremely illiquid right now.

We probably all agree that Manhattan real estate will come back, but will Manhattan with kids come back, too? If not, these family-style apartments will need to be re-built, re-branded, and perhaps broken apart. It could take another 6 months or so to be able to determine the price for a large family-sized apartment at the Majestic. Interesting to watch and wait though...

bfg: hey, I hope you are right, for the greater good of all. I just fall into the more pessimistic camp for RE pricing in general. I am not married to pricing in any asset class. I try to look at it from "dropped from Mars" point if view. If dropped from a space ship with a pocket full of cash, where would you put it work?. Every asset class on planet earth has eliminated the bubble pricing from 2003-2006. I think Manhattan RE will do the same. That's why I throw out the 1500psft number. Just my crystal ball, thats all, nothing more, nothing less.

mrsblogs: more good points. My thoughts/predictions were oviously based upon the idea that the owner here is not in financial distress and can wait for their price, though maybe that's not a great assumption. After all, it sure looks to me that this renovation is brand spanking new, so why the need to blow out of this?

p09: more good points, and I most certainly share your pessimistic view on Manhattan RE for the foreseeable future. I guess maybe what Im saying is that this apartment is so far from run-of-the-mill. This is a fall-in-love with it type of apartment where that one buyer is going to fall in love and fall in love HARD. I dont think you can really look at this thing on a strict psf basis. Sure it has a bearing on how it gets priced. But there are all sorts of mediocre lofts in child-unfriendly 'hoods downtown that are still trading for close to 1500-2000 psf. I think we would both agree that this is head and shoulders above what almost any loft downtown could ever be.

Only the shadow knows if the offerings are a hope/dream, just fishing, or a truly desperate need to sell. However, both 8C and 17D were mentioned by name in the last Vanity Fair article regarding distressed Real Estate due to Wall Street hardships.

there is just no way to predict where one individual, extremely overpriced apartment will sell in a market like this. the direction of the market is clearly down, and these apartments would have been overpriced even at the peak, but there is always the hope that some fool will pick them up. 17D is a complete joke, that apartment could easily trade around $3 million or less. But 8C, who knows?

I disagree, however, with the criticisms of the Majestic. That is unquestionably a top tier building. If the hallways need a remodel, then knock off $50 psf. It's a beautiful building in a perfect location. The problem isn't the building. The problem is the market. In fact, the high end market is even MORE dead than the mid-tier and low end. Why? Same reason wal-mart is doing well and saks may be going out of business. people need somewhere to live, just like they need clothes and food. but no one needs an eight room apartment overlooking the park: that's a discretionary luxury good. i predict absolute carnage in the market about $10 million over the next couple of years--ie, in a couple of years there may not be a market about $10 million.

"This is a fall-in-love with it type of apartment where that one buyer is going to fall in love and fall in love HARD"

I think this is a fair statement, except:

(1) Compared to 6 or 12 months ago, there are a whole lot fewer people that can afford to overpay by millions because they love an apartment. In other words, the pool of those buyers is a small fraction of what it was.

2) Even those that can afford it will think twice, three times, four times before pulling the trigger. Any potential buyer is probably aware of point (1) above, and thus knows time is on their side.

Not saying they won't find their one fool (who knows), but i think the odds are increasingly against them, and against sellers of similar properties.

where's the square footage people... or do "rich" people have the ability to mentally measure large square footages? I hope AgentRachel can get a tape measure and do some work :)

w67th: it isnt that difficult to guesstimate a square footage based on the dimensions of all the rooms shown. I think its safe to say that it falls somewhere in the 3500-4000 ft range based on some simple geometry. happyrenter: I definitely agree with your point about the high end, I think it will suffer every bit as much as the middle and lower end, maybe more. I'm just saying that I think given the market we are in now, this is still an eight figure item. in another twelve or eighteen months, I would guess lower. But, as unrbandigs likes to say, it is exactly worth what a buyer is willing to pay right now, and for stuff like this, who knows. I also agree 17D is a joke compared to 8C but, cmon, thats not a $3 million item, unless 8C is worth $5mm or less. I do still get the sense there are those who are hanging on to hope that Wall Street comes back sometime before, say, spring '10, but in my opinion, as a 25-year veteran of the Street, I have never been more convinced that a real comeback is many years away, and the high end will be significantly impaired for the foreseeable future.

bfgross so I guess when you ask for a pound of gold from me for $10,000.00, a 14% variance is perfectly acceptable :) Like I scrape off some gold... and you'd say thank you w67th!

They can standardize a pig for slaughter... cant' they do measurements?

OH i get it... gross square footage... close enough! :)

Lovely apartment -

This apt. is now listed as "contract signed".

I guess we have to wait a few months to find out the price.

Somehow I doubt it went for $6.5-7.5M as predicted earlier in this thread.

Holy freakin batmobiles!..There goes another buyer screwing up the comp market. I guess time will tell if I was correct in my post about the buyside..
"SOME IDIOT WILL OVER PAY, AND IT ONLY TAKES ONE.! Stribling is effectively on an idiot hunt. Think Madoff, hey, a fool and their money were lucky enough to have gotten together in the first place. btw, you want funny, check out apt number 17D in the same building, apt is 1/2 the size of this one. Also, owner is an agent for Corcoran."
It just seems odd, around the park there are SO many apts at lower price points of equal or better. I guess hope springs eternal when it comes to love affairs.

my guess is $10.75 million.
We shall see.
patient: the point about love affairs is that they arent about hope, theyre about falling in love!

my guess is $10.75 million.
We shall see.
patient: the point about love affairs is that they arent about hope, theyre about falling in love!

bf: good point, that was my attempt at cryptic sarcasm. That one has hope that if buying a beautiful apartment for your beautiful significant other it, may keep the relationship from falling apart. I will stick to my day job!

$12mn plus. Sold too quickly for the discount to be much more than that.

The tax filing finally came through on #7G. Big, north-facing (Dakota views) estate seven. Asking $5.295MM. Sold for $5.025M. October contract, December closing.
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/Detail?Doc_ID=2009010500992001

Details on the #8C sale should follow pretty soon. The UCC termination was filed two weeks ago.

7G seller got off some nice sale, good for them, approx 2k per sqft.

One last note: the friendly competition in the south tower between #28D and #29D might be heating up. #29D finally came down $625K last night. That's
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/369345-coop-115-central-park-west-lincoln-square-new-york
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/349725-coop-115-central-park-west-lincoln-square-new-york

The 1990 redo of #28D isn't aging well. #29D has some decorating quirks too. These are trophy apartments with astounding views, not particularly well-suited to family living. Peak (2007) comp in the line was #25D for $5.2MM, needing extensive rehab.

Looks like 8C sold for $11,750,000.

liquidpaper and bfgross, you guys were in the right neighborhood. patient09, not so much (though you did say that "some idiot will overpay, and it only takes one"

I honestly, honestly don't get it. It's like say 1 + 1 = 5.....if estate or raw space cost x, and to renovate to even my ridiculous tastes costs Y...Why pay X + 5Y. ??

I guessed $10.75. But as i said above it is a fall in love kind of place. P09 i don think its a x 5Y situation. That raw space is worth like 6-7 million and there is no way that renovation cost only a million. Can someone with renovation knowledge chime in?

yes, someone please tell us how much neutral paint and crown moldings cost ;)

it's lovely, very classic...

agree on the renovation cost. I have some pretty serious and recent experience. Chances are with this unit, little if any structural. So simply, a new kitchen, maybe flooring, skim coating walls (doesn't look like much millwork), yada yada..the rest is interior decorating. TOTAL SPECULATION, But, back to pricing. My guess is owner is older with MAJOR deep pockets, this may not even be a permanent residence for them. Wife says, this place is beautiful, tells agent to buy it. And he does. Everybody has a point of pain, as I get older and richer, I tip more, I buy more expensive wine than I should. Maybe this guy dropping a few million too much doesn't really matter to just get it done with. Did you notice how quickly it went from contract to closed...hmmm...hmm..

P09
I am going to flip my opinion and agree with you. I dont know what the reno cost, but it isnt 4-5 million. And i googled the guy who bought. You are indeed coreect, older guy, with major league cash.
They fell in love, and overpaid. But do not forget something, there is a scarcity value to apartments like these (i.e. 3800 sq ft of space with park view in a top building on the west side, with renovations the buyer obviously LOVED). So for a quick sale, and to eliminate the possibility of someone else buying it, they quickly pay a price that gets the deal done. In this case, it was at 3k psf. Overpaid, yes, but consider the circumstances. A couple of million obviously means little to this guy.

did it come furnished? sounds like it came w/ the window treatments. another possible reason for someone like this guy to justify the price...not that someone w/ $12MM in pocket change needs justification, but....

highly doubt it came furnished, window treatments dont relaly count do they, i mean they dont have value in another space, unless you got the exact same type of windows

Who can know the mind of a several-hundred-millionaire? They decided they wanted a NYC pied-a-terre and wanted mint, something that suited their tastes perfectly. Yup, and that means that they don't have to waste time calling up their interior designer folks to think up drapes.

my guess is, if he wanted the furntiture, he got the furniture...but what the hell do i know!!!

BTW - it's also funny that someone willing and able to pay more money than others is an "idiot". I'd like to be that kind of idiot some day :).

don't go throwing the group under the bus about calling one an idiot, I will take credit for that. I often get called an idiot for doing the same types of things, just subtract a few zeros. Hey , but that's all behind us now, good for the seller, he found his needle in the haystack!

:)
you really can't take all the blame. there's a pervasive group mentality on this board along the same lines. it's entertaining (and telling) in all threads...

OK, time to out myself here I guess. I DID found AutoNation, and I am from Tennesee. Y'all come visit me soon at little ol' 115 CPW, Ju's tell the doorman your here to see Mr. Hyde III.

(wouldn't it be nice . . . ). I ididn't have a Shackburger bet with anyone on this price did I? I feel a little like . . . well, like me, roving through my pockets on derby day, having forgotten all the horses I bet obn, wondering if I might have had a winning ticket somewhere after all . . . still waiting to see what that unfortunate duplex @ 270 WEA went for but ohhhhh Shake Shack, I'll be there soon enough one way or the other,