East Harlem - Can we live here....

"Do you think 5 years later East 103rd will be the new East 96th. Would you move here?"

No and NO. 5 years from now 103rd Street will be the new 125th St. since crime will go up.

I live on East 95th & 3rd. I go sometimes for a walk to East 104th during the weekends and it looks ok to me. One of my friends also moved to East 102nd & Lex (there are some projects around) and he says everything is fine. But you have to accept that there is a huge difference between East 103rd & East 96th subway stations...So I don't know.

Out of towners really kill me. The projects were there before you were born and before your luxury hi-class dump of a condo was built. 5, 10 heck even 20 years from now East 103rd street will continue to be East 103rd street it will never be 96th street hence the names are different. If you really want to live on East 96th street do so, I bet you can't live there because you can't afford to live there. Did you know the Eastside of 96th street was once a dump, the buildings were abandoned and all types of illegal activities went on in them. NYC will only change but so much. There is more too be concerned about in the world, today, than 103rd street being the new 96th street. I'm certain that you and your significant other job at risk. You want to pay 600K for a piece of property that is worth 20K LOL and the taxes forget about it. Half a million dollar homes don't belong in close proximity to the projects, its an imbalance. Parent(s) that mortgaged or rent properties on and around prime 96th street are upset because their kids have to attend school uptown with kids that have tans all year round and the school's "performance" is not great. Crime is going up in all of NYC and lack of employment will only hinder crime and your empty, knockoff pocketbook/wallet from being snatched when you are coming from a bar late night from a prime neighborhood.

PS: The building you are looking at will have the 80% 20% rule shit if the economy continues to spiral down it might be 20% 80% rule.

bleh! I looked at that place and the area is nasty.

The new building at 118th or 119th and 3rd is better. Nicer area, nicer building. Also the Miranda in East Harlem is decent. You should check these out if you have not already.

Why don't you look in South Harlem on West side. That packet from 110 to 125 and east of Morningside Park are really nice area and has tons of new construction.

elena
(broker)

Barskaya, that's a great area! I also think, if you can find something along CPW in the 100's you'd be in a great place. I've always liked those area because they are quiet yet close enough the upper west side. Good luck.

Check out the Kalahari on 116th between 5th and Lenox. Great building, 80% sold out, great amenities.

Poor, Poor Spanish Harlem, how we degrate you...Alas...Housing projects are housing projects. I once asked someone I know who lives in that hood if they thought it would be safe for me and my family. The answer,"The day you move in it's Christmas for the criminals!!" I asked my friend how he could live there? The answer,"The criminals already know they stole all my stuff!" What to live minimal and dangerous, this could be the place. But first, "snatch the stone from my hand...grasshopper."

I was really interested in the building when I first saw the web site. I have no problem with East Harlem. The area around Lex is fine, and that's where you're seeing more and more restaurants and cafes. The subway stop is run down, but perfectly safe. However, Observatory Place is far east, and the walk out there is 10 minutes and not very nice at night. As to gentrifying, I wouldn't expect too much. There is a wall of projects between 98 and 100 and no matter what your thoughts on projects, they will slow any gentrification. I recommend you spend an evening up there. If you like the neighborhood the way it is now, then go ahead, but don't buy with the expectation that it's going to become the upper east side.
PS: If you want a restaurant to try, go to Izocan at 101 and Lex. it's excellent.

nyhome: I used to live in the area, and know it ok. My experience is that it's pretty safe but not pleasant at all. I would argue that 118th and 119th is worse, and farther from everything.

I agree that buying in Spanish Harlem with the hope that it will gentrify is highly speculative - you should buy because you are comfortable living there now, or not buy there at all.

If you compare Observatory Place that is far east and developments on West 112 - 116 streets and Frederick Douglass Blvd., I would preffer West Side. Just because you have access to 2 beautiful Parks. West Side is just more pleasant. Everything elce is pretty much the same: new construction, tax abatements, price per sq.ft, safe neighborhood.

elena
(broker)

For SURE Central and West Harlem are nicer, have more subway lines, and offer the same prices. FDB from 110th to 125th looks just like the UWS from 96th to 110th these days. There are just too many projects in East Harlem, and one giant elevated train track, that will make it always marginal. Add to that the fact that the 2nd eve subway stops at 96th once built, and goes no further north...

Rented on 116th and Lex for about a year and 1/2 and was not worth it one bit

I have been living at Observatory Place for 6 months. It is a great condo and the area is both safe and friendly. I used to live on the Upper East Side and had the same worries that some of you mentioned. They are totally unfounded. And the subway is not far-away: 3 blocks!!

is there a 24 hour doorman ?

Check out 2002 Fifth Avenue in Central Harlem...Comparable price...bigger (and better) layout...views of Marcus Garvey Park. Maintenance is a bit higher (it's a co-op) but the realtor told me that the owner is willing to supplement the maintenance. The neighborhood is still coming along, but a couple of new restaurants just opened -- a good sign that things will continue to move along!

At Observatory Place, we have a 16 hour doorman: 8:00am-midnight, 7 days. We have a small gym on the 10th floor, storage, a bike room, and 3 terraces (2 small and 1 large).

As for Marcus Garvey Park, it is lovely. It is also further North (between 120 and 124 St). Observatory Place is at 104 St, literally steps from UES.

vale - are there are kids- families in this building? Do you pay estra for storage and bike room>

sorry for not replying earlier. Storage and bike room use come with unit = we do not pay extras.
Yes, there is a family with kids on the 10th floor.

2002 Fifth Avenue in central Harlem is ridiculously overpriced, and noisy. It sits at a thoroughfare for cars, taxis and buses heading south across 124th St. and 5th Avenue. There have also been lots of complaints about noise in and around Marcus Garvey Park.

While I live in the neighborhood (120th & Madison) and feel perfectly safe, I would also caution about buying at 2002 Fifth for the reasons already stated.

I agree with the above two. I live nearby but would NEVER live at 2002 fifth. Plus there are FEWER restaurants and businesses now than when I moved to this part of Harlem, not more!

I have lived in East Harlem all my life. I was raised in Franklin Plaza apartments on 107th and 1st Ave, and now live on 105th and 2nd Ave. I agree with mutombonyc, "Half a million dollar homes don't belong in close proximity to the projects, its an imbalance." That being said, it has been done in Chelsea, LES, Hells Kitchen, Brooklyn, etc. This is NY real estate. Housing projects will always be there. New York is not Chicago, if they were to try and sell public housing there would be serious anarchy. This is a unique island and its inhabitants are exotic. If you want city living, you have to accept the pros and cons. The main pro for buying an apartment ANYWHERE on this island, is that it will appreciate in value. The pace may not be 10% per year anymore, but buying property in Manhattan is probably one of the safest investments.
If you want to know if you can live in the neighborhood, I am very biased and say anyone can live in this neighborhood. However, Observatory Place is located across the street from East River and Wilson Projects, two of the worst in this area. Although, 104th Street is a calm tree-lined street, I would have to mentally build a wall to anything on the First Avenue side of the world. You have a liquor store, chinese restaurant, fried chicken spot, and 2 24 hour stores on the corner of 105th. This creates a strip mall for all sorts of project vermin. There are similarly priced properties throught this area on better blocks. Not only do i live here, I also sell and rent properties in the Greater Harlem area. aramirez@citi-habitats.com

aramirez: yours clearly sounds like a "sale pitch" for buildings you are a broker for. and you obviously not the broker for Observatory Place. As I mentioned, I live there and I can positively confirm that there is no "vermin" near my building. If anything, there are friendly people.

IMO, aramirez's description doesn't at all sound like a sales pitch for his services -- and what kind of broker would bad-mouth particular little areas in a larger neighborhood he also sells/rents in, if he's just issuing a self-serving post? I don't think so.

Aramirez's post is accurate enough, although perhaps a bit mean-spirited. That is auwfully east in East harlem.

aramirez, as someone that has lived in East Harlem for 20 years I disagree with your breakdown of the 1st Avenue area. East River and Wilson projects WERE some of the worst in the area until the 2 huge rental buildings that stretch from 100th to 103rd street were built about 5 years ago. Ever since then that area has changed drastically much like the rest of the East Harlem community. As for "vermin" you speak of, Franklin Plaza where you grew up is low-income housing just like the people that you are talking about. Just because they are low income co-ops doesn't make the people that live in them any better than the people in East River or Wagner and I know because I grew up in the area also and have seen worse things in Franklin Plaza and 1199 Plaza, another low income co-op across the street from where you grew up, than I ever did in East River or Wagner Projects. If 105th and First is so bad why do you live on 105th and 2nd now? A better questions is why are you trying to solicit business by saying that you "sell and rent properties in the Greater Harlem area" when you only have 6 rentals and no sold properties on your webpage? How does that make you an expert on any condos in the area? Calling your neighbors "vermin" and giving your business contact info is probably not very bright either. I read this site for entertainment and never get involved because I am busy but this is so ridiculous I had to say something. I see owners defending their buildings, brokers serving their own agendas, and people bashing other neighborhoods. Can't we all get along?

Riiiiight. A but still, aramirez is spot on. There is a VAST difference between 102nd and 96th. Especially at first. If you can afford to NOT live at 102nd and first, DONT.

I’ve been living in Spanish Harlem (on 106th Street and 3rd Ave) for 4 years and truly love the neighborhood. I lived in Chelsea in much smaller apartment before moving to Spanish Harlem and I definitely feel a lot more warmth, charm and vibrancy in this neighborhood than I did in Chelsea. This neighborhood has changed in the 4 years that I’ve been here and I have seen more banks and restaurants move into the neighborhood. Having said that… don’t move here expecting it to become “just like” 96th street in the next few years. It’s changing, but not drastically and it will still have it’s unique character for a long time.

We’ve looked at many places in this neighborhood because we love the neighborhood and because we love being walking distance to Central Park. We really like Observatory Place and saw it a few times. While the particular block is a little isolated currently, we felt that it’s still closer to our favorite restaurants and eateries (and Central Park) than places further North. While the area feels isolated, we didn't feel at all unsafe and an old colleague of mine lives right on the next block at the Hampton Court (103rd & 1st Ave) which is a very nice apartment complex right in the same area. At Observatory Place, we especially loved the views overlooking the neighborhood – from the wrap-around balconies and from the bright and airy rooms. We looked at the “A” line of apartments. We really fell in love with it, but decided to go another route because we came to the realization that we truly need a 2-bedroom and the 2-bedrooms at Observatory Place are currently out of our price range. If you are contemplating the neighborhood, I would suggest visiting at least twice like we did, once in the day to experience the sun-filled apartment, and again at dusk to see how lovely the views are over the city and how charming the apartment feels.

103rd is a lot closer to the park and Subway than what is being discussed above.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the East River Plaza. For all it is worth, it will bring (traffic yes) but I believe it will help w/ the (slow) gentrification of the area. Costco is one of my favorite stores...I am a big supporter of mom and pop places, but make do...Also on 118 and 3rd, Hunter College is fully funded in its building of the new School of Social work. This also should help bring necessities that students require to the neighborhood. I am thinking its' the uptown NYU...ha, ha! Maybe wishful thinking, but it is a start to the already developing area. Comments??

If I were you, I'd choose central or west harlem over east harlem. Though development and services have slowed somewhat in Harlem (it's slowed everywhere, but Harlem was looking to reap the benefits of improved services more than most areas of the city), central and west harlem made much more progress over the last few years than did east harlem.

The marcus garvey park area is quite nice (especially the mount morris park (the old name for marcus garvey park) historic district), including 2002 fifth, which people mentioned above. Also, the whole frederick douglass corridor (8th avenue) is really nice as well.

depends on where in east harlem though. Since Marcus Garvey park straddles east and central, techically 5thonthepark is east harlem, for example. and for some people (namely people who work on the east side) east harlem is much better as an option. plus if you are "only" at 102nd or 103rd, you are a short walk to services, whereas the MGP are is forever by foot from anything decent. And I live there, and know. Its hell if you want to eat out or order, unless you love afro soul Caribbean bbq in grease.

AND...east Harlem itself has more variety of restaurants, even if you stay above 96th. Mexican, italian, whatever. Not as good as Carnegie hill, but CERTAINLY better than 5th to FDB from 110th to 125th, the are with which I am all too painfully familiar when it comes to lack of non-McDonalds non-KFC non-greasy BBQ food.

Very true on the food options. That said, nicer places than exist in east harlem are opening up in central and west harlem. Chez Lucienne opened on Lenox and 125th and there are a number of others along the Fredrick Douglass corridor.

I would say overall fewer projects and more condos in the area i describe above make west and central a more likely gentrification area, yes...at least until that star trek future when the 2nd ave subway goes all the way to 125th.

West 115th & Manhattan Avenue near Morningside Park and Columbia University:
$750K
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/391959-condo-367-manhattan-ave-central-harlem-new-york

I park my 2006 Subaru Forrester in this neighborhood (1st Ave usually, sometimes sidestreets) overnight on a regular basis and then cab it down to our place on 72nd St. Been doing this often for the past two years. Always easy parking, never ever a problem. Sometimes a nice chat with the local colorful characters. I would buy there.

Who would want to steal anything from a suburu?

Columbus, your too scared to go up there. Big words little boy.

Avoid at all cost.
For 610 bucks per square foot you can find a better deal without the thought of getting mugged every night.

ericho75: you must have read too many thrillers and perhaps wish to get mugged. Sorry to say it will not happen around Eastt 104 St and in Eat Harlem in general....

More muggings happen in times square, on 5th ave midtown, in union square, and in chelsea than in east harlem per the crime stats. If you were a mugger, where would you go? I would go where there are lots of drunk clubbers and lots of toursits, presumably with more money than folks in an area with lots of projects.

I've live in East Harlem for over 60 years. It is still as dangerous now as it was in the 1950s. A cop was stabbed in the head the other night. The thugs and gangs are attacking the police officers now. I am afraid to let my grandchildren go to school because they come home beaten up almost every day. I am about to move out to Queens. Nice neighborhood, my home cost 250K and I can't wait to get out of this hell hole.

I grew up in Franklin Plaza and can assure anyone that it is not a project or low income housing. Franklin Plaza is a co-op. It is well maintained and everyone is friendly. You would NEVER be able to phase out the projects int he area. The people would literally take it to the streets. You have to understand something. Almost everyone in East Harlem has Section 8 subsidies. These people are not leaving the area any time soon. This is one of the reason why we sold our apartment and bought a home in Yonkers. Too much noise, too dirty and the crime kept my family indoors on the nicest days. While the people are friendly and all at night is a totally different atmosphere. Do not venture up 110th street towards the park. You could build a thousand luxury apartments but you would still be in East Harlem.

Tamara