If You Can Demonstrate Market Movement With Comps: Downtown Edition

PIGS IN SPACE.... crap I meant, PIGS THRU SNAKES!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAH

Jesus (the spanish version).... where do you guys come up with this shitz...

"I looked at #10LM 40 East 9th. Owner lived in building and purchased #10LM to combine. Months later, before remodel he died. Wife wanted quick sale."

Probably the stress of the remodeling did it to them. I think I read somewhere that going thru a remodeling project was one of the major sources of divorce in this country.

Owner passed away before remodel. Quite tragic for wife + children.

30yrs - I hear ya though, nothing like dealing with a missing contractor to see true colors!

there is someone on the boards who was friends with the man who died. it was very sudden and not long after the purchase. the place was not remodeled at all. it had not gotten to that stage.

below mid-2004 price.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/366570-condo-270-west-17th-street-chelsea-new-york

07/28/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $1,035,000.
11/20/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,249,000.
01/27/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,190,000.
03/22/2009 Price decreased by 16% to $999,000.
04/09/2009 Listing entered contract.
04/28/2009 Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
05/22/2009 Listing entered contract.
07/14/2009 Listing sold.
07/14/2009 Sale recorded for $985,000.
07/24/2009 Listing sold

district, 621 closed recently for $500k. 721 closed at $645k in 01/09.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/905568

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/396263-condo-120-greenwich-street-financial-district-new-york
10/23/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $799,326.
01/05/2009 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $740,000.
03/03/2009 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $719,000.
03/30/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $699,000.
04/01/2009 Price decreased by 3% to $679,900.
05/02/2009 Listing entered contract.
07/15/2009 Listing sold.
07/15/2009 Sale recorded for $610,000.
08/03/2009 Listing sold.

they may have renovated, also.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/396753-coop-140-west-16th-street-chelsea-new-york

05/09/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,301,000.
04/01/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Citi-Habitats at $1,425,000.
06/05/2009 Listing entered contract.
07/15/2009 Listing sold.
07/15/2009 Sale recorded for $1,330,000.

i find this one intriguing. comps aren't exact because owners built out the lofts differently, i'd guess, but sizes seem roughly the same. this one is renovated. 2B sold for $1.8mil in 07/05, and 3B sold for $1.7 in 04/07.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/354805-condo-121-west-20th-street-chelsea-new-york
10/02/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,495,000.
11/07/2008 Price decreased by 7% to $1,395,000.
02/18/2009 Listing entered contract.
02/28/2009 Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
03/13/2009 Price decreased by 7% to $1,295,000.
05/11/2009 Listing is no longer available.
07/15/2009 Listing sold.
07/15/2009 Sale recorded for $1,292,500.

"they may have renovated, also.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/396753-coop-140-west-16th-street-chelsea-new-york"

I'm 80% sure you are correct. in addition, on that #1,301,000 sale the ask was $1,250,000

"i find this one intriguing. comps aren't exact because owners built out the lofts differently, i'd guess, but sizes seem roughly the same. this one is renovated. 2B sold for $1.8mil in 07/05, and 3B sold for $1.7 in 04/07."

I didn't go look at the listings, but even without doing so: it's not so much the people who bought the layed them out differently, but the developer did: It's a conversion I'm very familiar with because I worked closely with the developer (and my firm, considering how small we are relative to the "big guys" sold like 30% of the units in the initial sale). What he reason is is that the ceiling height varies. On the second floor and the front half of the top floor, the ceiling height was high enough so that the "mezzanine" areas were "legal", whereas on the 3rd, 4th and back of the top floor they were not. As a result, the original floorplans have full baths up in the mezzanines on the "legal" units, and nothing but "raw" space on the "illegal" one's (when I say illegal, I don't meant the space is illegal as a mezzanine, I mean the height is not enough to legally build rooms/bathrooms there. It's really just a few inches difference, but it made all the difference in the world as far as having the ability to build another bath in the units.

Now, after the conversion was over, several people "illegally" built baths up in teh mezzanines, but the developer couldn't.

Also, if I remember correctly, the B line is the only corner (ie 2 exposures) line in the building, overlooking the "?Portuguese? ?Jewish? Cemetery on 21st St (which was in the news when the O'Neil building on 6th Ave was being built because of debris from that construction causing damage to the landmarked cemetery.

30 yrs - I recall seeing one of the "illegal" units with a tall friend , needless to say that mezzanine did not work for him at all. If memory serves, these was a foreclosure in that building in the past 2-3 years.

The cemetery is the Third Cemetery of the Spanish-Portuguese Synagogue, Shearith Israel. It dates to 1829.

101 West 12th Street #8N

Here's the listing history:

02/27/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,195,000.
04/08/2009 Price decreased by 8% to $1,095,000.
05/13/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $995,000.
06/24/2009 Listing entered contract.
09/09/2009 Listing sold.
09/09/2009 Sale recorded for $930,000.

And the comps:

09/06/2005 #7N $995,000
06/28/2004 #10N $980,000

Are we looking at a 2003 price in Greenwich Village?

The listing touts a "beautiful renovation" that looks nice in the pics, so condition was definitely not an issue.

14 Horatio Street #11F

The listing history is painful. They probably could have gotten out with a nice profit if they priced it right:

01/04/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Bellmarc at $850,000.
08/07/2008 Bellmarc Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $795,000.
10/29/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $725,000.
01/14/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $695,000.
04/06/2009 Listing entered contract.
05/12/2009 Re-listed by Corcoran.
07/08/2009 Listing entered contract.
09/03/2009 Listing sold.
09/03/2009 Sale recorded for $632,000.

Looks like a 2005 price. Here's their purchase:

07/13/2004 #11-F $585,000

Here's the most recent comp, from frenzied times (it went 6.8% over ask):

09/17/2007 #15F $800,000

Parc East at 210 East 15th Street

Most recent sale:

09/02/2009 #7H $410,000

A comp that's also high enough to clear the building across the street:

05/16/2006 #10H $505,000

And one that isn't:

01/08/2006 #5H $420,000

Hard so say much without the listings, but an open-view unit sold for a little less than a building-view unit that went to contract in late-05.

ten, i believe that west 12th street sale was a sponsor unit. like the following J unit sale for $275k, which just crushed ppsf for recent purchasers.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/205-3-avenue-new_york

LMAO. so the sponsor sells at $275K what sold $525K a year ago. HOLY COW, unless you put down >50% down, the ENTIRE BUILDING is under water... yep keep buying lemmings... it's like crack, 30% off just isn't giving me a NYC RE high anymore....

Here's another nail in the old saying "If they can't get their price, they just won't sell," though all things considered, they could have done much worse.

305 West 18th Street

Recorded Sales
08/31/2009 #3F $630,000
04/18/2007 #3F $679,000

aboutready, I saw that one and assumed the J line changed configuration further up the building. I only saw the comp 7 floors down, didn't keep looking to the other units. Holy crap. Here are the deets for anyone who wants to join in the jaw-dropping:

Gramercy Park Tower at 205 Third Avenue

Recorded Sales
09/08/2009 #12J $275,000
10/23/2008 #5J $525,000
07/31/2008 #11J $650,000
12/11/2007 #4J $589,000
03/27/2006 #2-J $435,000
10/05/2004 #4J $330,000

5J and 16J have the same floorplan, and it's a Jr. 1br line, so it's not like 12J could have sold a bedroom to a neighbor. Condition aside, a 68% drop for 11J.

LMAO. 68% off 2007... FLMAO.... bail bail bail...

Are we sure that 205 3rd Ave 12J was a market transaction? As far as I know, it was never listed. Could have been a discounted insider sale.

30yrs, it's a sponsor sale, but many of them have been in the building. the buyers were not insiders. as a building that is marketing and selling many units it wouldn't be so surprising that it wasn't listed.

"as a building that is marketing and selling many units it wouldn't be so surprising that it wasn't listed."

This is truly not looking for an argument, but an honest question: how was the sale made, and where are the others if the sponsor is dumping units? I mean, the Sponsor isn't an idiot, and there's an alcove studio IN CONTRACT which was asking $475,000. I just don't see why a guy would give away a unit when it's not necessary? And unless the Sponsor has a WHOLE bunch of stuff which he has some sort of active self marketing campaign, I just plain don't understand what you mean in the above quoted text/statement. i mean, I see 3 alcove studios on the market between $470,000 and $490,000; does this guy have a stockpile of alcove studios which he's stealth marketing at half that price? And if so, how is he doing it and why?

He sold 14F this year (well, probably in contract the end of last year), which is pretty close to the same layout, for $560,000. he sold 5S around the same time, which is a junior-4-ish 2 br for $950,000, he sold 5J, another alcove studio 3 months earlier (probably late summer/early fall 2008 contract) for $525,000, ....... i could go on.....

but ALL of those he not only sold at much higher prices, he sold them all thru the same broker. And now all of a sudden the same guy sells a unit at a very low price, it isn't ever listed with that same broker who has been handling his units and selling them in a reasonable time frame....... it just doesn't seem plausible to me that it's a "normal" arms length market transaction. It certainly doesn't smell like one to me.

re: tenemental's history of 14 Horatio Street #11F . . .

This one is interesting (back at 2005 prices).

I guess my question is, do people think a return to 2005 prices is far down enough to stabilize values, especially for a desirable area like the Village? (Wasn't 2004 itself also a pretty heady year for price appreciation?)

30yrs, i understand where you are coming from. but the sponsor does have a large number of units i believe. i wouldn't be surprised to see more sponsors getting rid of their brokers in this situation.

and did you see the w12th street sale? another near give-away by a sponsor. i'm seeing it all over the place.

hrdnitlr, until recently we hadn't seen much movement at all downtown. now i'm seeing 2004 pricing here and there.

Re: 205 Third Ave, the sponsor had five market-rate apartments left to sell as of May 2008. Still held 7% of the shares, so must also have stabilized apartments. The 12J buyers are living on three acres in Morris County. Either they're related in some way to AGBH, or 12J has a tenant in it. Doesn't make sense either way, but the sponsor acting inexplicably makes even less sense, as 30yrs said.

unless they have a payment due to the bank for renovation costs shortly. who knows? i agree it's an outlier, but unusual sales are popping up all over. and now the sale is there to be explained away.

sponsor sales can be quite a bit like estate sales.

I'm with 30yrs. Viewing 12J as a market transaction and therefore either a relevant comp or preview of transactions to come is a case of hope winning out over reason.

and ar, the sponsor getting rid of their broker (and the potential that other sponsors do the same) is a peripheral part of the story here and has nothing to do with whether the sponsor would sell in an arm's length transaction 40% below the current comp cited by 30yrs.

The former sponsor sold 58 apartments to this AGBH outfit in 2007. 51 went to "AGBH Gramercy" and the other seven to "AGBH Gramercy Rental". Looks as if the 51 were vacant or market-rent, and the seven were stabilized.

Of those seven, only 12J and 11J have sold. I'm guessing that 11J became vacant and sold at market, while 12J went to an investor. Lots of other scenarios, I suppose, but that seems to fit the circumstances.

nwt, it may also have been unrenovated. which would account for a chunk of the difference. an a unit listed by citi-habitats at $425k (a 2004 price) is indicated as being in contract. not renovated. will be interesting to see what it goes for.

If anyone feels particularly ballsy, they could call Jane Lusty at 212.473.1861 and ask where she is living, because in the last paper version of the Cole's directory I can get my hands on from 2003, that's who is listed in apartment 12J with a "start of service" date of 1965.

Great catch. That clinches it, I think. In the 2008 white pages, that number is in the husband's name at 205 Third. He died in 1980 at 82.

check out 18 east 12th street - 1275 sf w/ terrace -listed at 1,800,000 on 5/27, sold in july for 1,650,000. Against all the bear predictions? (and it was a DGNeary sale)

OK, I admit it: it's our fault the market hasn't fallen enough.

30yrs - very funny!! but many on SE choose to ignore lots of sales like this one, which go againt the bear position.

lots of sales? or, one here, one there?

CC - seems to me that the bears just tend to track, and post, more, because they are more obsessed with proving their point, and certainly don't want to post stats which go against that point.

Though true, it is the special apartments which go for way above what many would consider "current market", and the very good apartments and buildings which have tended to mostly hold their value. The others, yes, slid downhill.

CC- check out Stewart House (70 East 10th street) - yes, the two bedrooms have come down from asking $1.75mm and more, which they were at the peak, and are now back to the $1.4-1.5 sales prices which they were pre-2007-2008. To me, that's holding value, not precipitously sliding downhill to 2002 levels.

572 Grand Street #G1407 in Lower East Side - East River Coop

The rise and fall of the LES.

STREETEASY HISTORY
07/15/2004
Previous Sale recorded for $365,000.

05/09/2007
Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Loho Realty at $730,000.

09/06/2007
Loho Realty Listing sold.
Previous Sale recorded for $725,000.

05/01/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $679,000.

07/20/2009
Price decreased by 4% to $649,000.

101 West 12th Street #8N

Prime Village

Streeteasy History

02/27/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,195,000.
04/08/2009 Price decreased by 8% to $1,095,000.
05/13/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $995,000.
06/24/2009 Listing entered contract.
09/09/2009 Listing sold.
09/09/2009 Sale recorded for $930,000.

22% off ask!

Comps for 101 West 12th Street #8N

09/09/2009 #8N $930,000
09/06/2005 #7N $995,000
06/28/2004 #10N $980,000

recent sale at district. unit 605, sold 07/16 for $470k.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/905179

on 01/22/09, 505 sold for $610k.

ar - good example of your theory that later sellers in the same line (or was it building?) are getting worse outcomes that the first one out.

On the other hand, not a good example of a theory somewhat popular with others on SE that the market stabilized or possibly recovered somewhat over the summer vs. the so-called depths of the winter/early spring.

"572 Grand Street #G1407 in Lower East Side - East River Coop"

When you factor in the enormous flip tax, you really see how much of a loss there is.

PS This ain't nuthin' - you're either gonna see transfers at MUCH worse than this (which wont match up to anything which was publicly listed), or you're gonna hear a large sucking sound coming from the LES. One thing which lenders didn't take into account which they had when credit tightened the last time was that they had begun a practice of forcing purchasers to reduce the amount of their loans by the flip tax in the buildings they were purchasing in (since if the bank had to foreclose, this would be taken out of the equity by the Coop). But this practice stopped and especially in Coop Village, may/will seriously impact the losses that banks will incur as these overpriced glorified projects head South. In addition, there are TONS of people who have rented out their units to finance their lives eleswhere who are going into serious reality shock as rents crash there as well.

It will be interesting to see how big a crater has to occur down there before they remove the curtain and shine the light on the scurrying roaches.

ss, you'd think there'd be more press on sponsor reductions for comps. it just seemed to show up, both for buildings that have sold most of the units and those that seem to be in trouble like District.

District may be feeling saucy now, though, also, because they just deshadowed some inventory today.

"they remove the curtain and shine the light on the scurrying roaches."

nice imagery.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/389520-coop-237-east-12th-street-east-village-new-york

08/22/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $467,000.
04/12/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $520,000.
05/30/2008 Corcoran Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $499,000.
03/05/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $499,000.
03/21/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $470,000.
03/28/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $445,000.
05/17/2009 Price decreased by 10% to $399,000.
06/12/2009 Listing entered contract.
09/10/2009 Listing sold.
09/10/2009 Sale recorded for $339,688.

80 Chambers, unit 10E.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/270-broadway-new_york

08/09, $750K
04/07, $999K

20 pine, sponsor sale.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/20-pine-street-new_york

09/09, 1612, $545k
07/08, 1712, $765k

75 wall. 33P sold for $1.46mm in 05/09.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/91281-condo-75-wall-street-financial-district-new-york
06/08/2007 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,380,000.
06/16/2008 Delisted temporarily.
06/28/2008 Re-listed by Corcoran.
07/23/2009 Listing is no longer available.
08/31/2009 Listing sold.
08/31/2009 Sale recorded for $1,194,990.

one york. 4C sold for $4.1mm 06/08. 5C now on the market for $2.8mm.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/416781-condo-1-york-street-tribeca-new-york

11/17/2007 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $3,050,000.
06/04/2008 Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available.
06/02/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by One York Sales Office at $2,800,000.

11/17/2007 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $3,050,000.
12/18/2007 Listing entered contract.
01/25/2008 Listing is no longer available.
02/12/2008 Listing entered contract.
06/04/2008 Listing is no longer available.
06/02/2009 Currently Listed in StreetEasy by One York Sales Office at $2,800,000.

re: one york, I think 4C is a BC combination. 3C sold for $2.4mm at the same time (6/08) that 5C was offered at $3.05mm and 4C sold for $4.1mm. It's a bit hard to imagine that someone would pay $4.1mm for 4C when they could save a million bucks to buy the same floor plan a floor up. Implication: it's not the same floor plan. Futher, there has been no 4B closing and 4A and 4C are sequential lot numbers, which suggests that there is no 4B. Conclusion: "4C" is a combination, not a comp.

The comps implication of this is that 5C is priced way too high, given the 3C pre-crash closing price.

I think price for 5C needs to start with a 1, not a 2

ss, missed that, my eyes are beginning to cross. here's one for chelsea, another sponsor sale. 8B sold for $1.36mm in 10/08. chelsea modern.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/157669-condo-447-west-18th-street-chelsea-new-york
11/30/2007 Listed in StreetEasy, already in contract, by Corcoran at $1,345,000.
01/13/2009 Re-listed by Corcoran.
05/11/2009 Listing entered contract.
07/02/2009 Listing sold.
07/02/2009 Sale recorded for $1,075,000.
08/11/2009 Listing sold.

9G closed for $1.6mm 03/09.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/394236-condo-133-west-22nd-street-chelsea-new-york
03/23/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Cantor and Pecorella at $1,575,000.
06/19/2009 Listing entered contract.
09/03/2009 Sale recorded for $1,200,000.

16 West 19th St. (Jade): "F" line.
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
**CURRENT** #10F ........................ |↓ $1,095,000 1 bed 1,138 ft²
**CURRENT** # 8F ........................ |↓ $1,075,000 1 bed 1,138 ft²
02/06/2009 # 9F $1,169,750 -19.9% | . $1,460,000 1 bed 2 baths 1,138 ft²
12/31/2007 # 6F $1,250,000 - 3.8% | . $1,300,000 1 bed 2 baths 1,138 ft²
12/04/2007 # 7F $1,360,000 ......... |
01/28/2007 # 5F $1,260,000 + 0.0% | . $1,260,000 1 bed 2 baths 1,138 ft²
For all the talk of the market turning, the latest reductions make the January contract for #9F look like a falling knife.

Sorry - typo in the closing date for #5F: should be 11/28/2007, not 01/28/07.

If I remember correctly at 1 York, most of the floors B and C were originally offered alone or in combo. While I'm not sure 5C has to start with a 1, I do agree that $3,050,000 to $2,800,000 isn't much of a concession considering the market.

30yrs, how about the others?

AR,

YOUR A MACHINE!

keep crank'in them out! How come your posts don't indicate that the market is turning around and prices are on the up swing? Every broker I know is telling me that the 'over correction' was feb/march and now the market has found it's feet and right back to a climb. In fact, today I was warned by a broker representing a property of interest that I'd better get a move on b/c he has recieved an (I Quote) avalanch of inquiries concerning this property and would expect at least 2 bids b4 the OH this sunday. I wanted to say, "you lieing sack of shit!" but, it came out, "thank you very much".

falco, right now everybody's right.

there has been a definite uptick in sales volume, even some in the higher end. but if you dig and you parse and you look forward, it's really f'ng ugly for anything outside the conforming world.

i respect UD tremendously, but from what i'm seeing the slight uptick in prices that will occur in some market areas will totally be obliviated by other areas. and even if the uptick is real, it will show up in the January numbers, not the october numbers, and by then the new construction issue may very well have blown up, which will be a real ice water bath for the market. i'm seeing signs of it daily.

"I wanted to say, "you lieing sack of shit!" but, it came out, "thank you very much"."

There's a divorce joke like that.

"30yrs, how about the others?"

No time for the old in-out love, I've come to read the meter - Alex, A Clockwork Orange

(don't have time to look right now, have to be somewhere and have to leave the office)

I lifed the lie from:

Had dinner with my father the other night and I ment to say, "pass the salt" but it came out, "you prick! you ruined my childhood!"

lifted the line

got to get myself an editor...

falco, i was just going to point out what a brilliant typo that might be. but i'll definitely keep up the work here.

by the by, the honesty in me forces me to report that the Caledonia seems to be doing well, at least in terms of closing price, i haven't looked into volume. a related project. but that was what made me so overwhelmingly stunned by the movement in the harrison. i like looking at related, because i'm fairly certain despite some really bad decisions in florida they're still viable.

I saw an apartment at the Caledonia. Related has a smart formula. Lower floors are rentals with lower ceilings, higher floors are sales and are trickled out to the market.
THe agent was nice and had a "we are somewhat bulletproof" to the market air about him.
Their own little RE Hedge Fund.
They will be able to withstand the longest but won't be able to control individuals who already own and have to sell in their building.

truthskr10, that's why i was so surprised to see the reductions from list at the harrison.

this one needs to be pieced together. when they relisted it they changed it from 2d 3d to 2d3d and it doesn't match up. closed 09/14 for $1,125,000, 3bed/2bath. 4D closed for $570k in 07/07, 6D for $699k in 10/05. this unit is a combo, obviously.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/165981-coop-410-west-23rd-street-chelsea-new-york

01/12/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,625,000.
03/05/2008 Price decreased by 8% to $1,500,000.
05/07/2008 Price decreased by 3% to $1,450,000.
06/02/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $1,390,000.
06/16/2008 Delisted temporarily.

Here's some movement in prime village. it will be interesting to see how far this one falls:

136 Waverly
STREETEASY HISTORY
01/30/2007
Previous Sale recorded for $820,000.
02/02/2009
Previously Listed in StreetEasy by apt168 at $1,095,000.
09/15/2009
Delisted by apt168. Last priced at $925,000.
09/18/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $900,000.

04/14/2008 #10C $1,160,000 +5.5%
12/12/2007 #4C $995,000
01/30/2007 #5C $820,000

when purchased in 2007 the unit needed a gut renovation. 4C is the appropriate comp, although the 5C renovation is superior.

well they listed for rent as well;
06/16/2008 #2D3D $7,900 ↓ 2 beds 2 baths 1,477 ft²

And it's a much smaller property than the Caledonia, I'm sure they are treating buildings as stand alone for the most part.
I doubt they would have gotten 7900 per month but probably $5500.

$5500 times 200 = 1,100,000. I'd say fair for today's(this moment) market.
But of course unusual for Related's "frame of mind."

1/1, 440 closed for $712k 06/08.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/379368-coop-60-east-9th-street-greenwich-village-new-york
07/07/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $690,000.
01/05/2009 Delisted temporarily by Brown Harris Stevens. Last priced at $645,000.
02/04/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $619,000.
03/03/2009 Price decreased by 3% to $599,000.
03/11/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $565,000.
04/01/2009 Price decreased by 3% to $549,000.
05/11/2009 Listing entered contract.
07/09/2009 Listing sold.
07/09/2009 Sale recorded for $497,500.

1865sf new conversion, high taxes, sponsor sale. in case you can't read the last link, closed for $1.39mm 09/09; 3rd floor sold for $1.59 08/07, and 5 sold for $1.65 08/07. those were the first two sales in what appears to be a 4 or 5 unit conversion (not including commercial), so i don't know when they went into contract.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/209928-condo-158-west-23rd-street-chelsea-new-york
03/27/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,365,000.
05/08/2008 Price decreased by 3% to $2,290,000.
06/26/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $2,195,000.
08/04/2008 Listing is no longer available.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/356162-condo-158-west-23rd-street-chelsea-new-york
10/08/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $1,990,000.
12/09/2008 Price decreased by 10% to $1,800,000.
03/28/2009 Price decreased by 12% to $1,590,000.
08/06/2009 Listing entered contract.
09/10/2009 Listing is no longer available.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/919606

It looks like # 7 sold for 1.65 on 5/15/09.
And if not mistaken is the penthouse which would then include the roof as well!

block 00798 lot 1307

that's a good deal, if accurate.

213 West 23rd Street #8S: Huge loft on the top floor of a converted YMCA. Assuming these are "arm's length" transactions, quite a successful flip for the original buyer; quite a disappointment for the second owner, who also attempted a quick flip and wound up losing $1MM plus expenses.
11/07/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,973,869.
11/07/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $4,500,000.
02/11/2006 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $5,750,000.
07/06/2006 Corcoran Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $5,495,000.
03/12/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $5,750,000.
03/25/2009 Price decreased by 14% to $4,965,000.
07/13/2009 Price decreased by 12% to $4,375,000.
08/26/2009 Listing is no longer available.
09/11/2009 Sale recorded for $3,500,000.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/391394-condo-213-west-23rd-street-chelsea-new-york

That building has a very odd and somewhat shrouded history: after being sold by the YMCA, and being split into 2 buildings, there was a series of deals with constantly shifting partners coming in and out trying to do a "self conversion" where people bought into the partnership and then got a floor and other oddities. In the end, the building did end up being converted as a whole (as opposed to different partners finishing off various floors in different manners). but, as such, that "flip" you see may have been an oddly priced (or maybe I should say oddly recorded) transaction because it's possible that the $1,973,869 is what some partner was in the deal for. i mean, the first price i have for that listing in the original conversion is $4,500,000, and th4e schedule A not only is devoid of prices, but the percentage of common interest for the individual lots is shockingly uniform.

Also, go to ACRIS and look at that first deed (the 11/07/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,973,869 one). From the first paragraph, the Seller and buyer seem to be closely related.

truthskr10, the building @ 158 is the dealkiller. crap entrance with monster sushi as the tenant. and loud!

8S looks like a sweet apt--imagine the AC bil tho--lotta cubic footage plus top floor/roof summer heat--id want to see the summer coned bills before bidding

RE: 158 West 23rd, the apt on the lower floor was built out with proper bedrooms, baths, kitchen while the PH was an open space with a c/o type kitchen...the roof was not complete and not totally private as it is shared somewhat with other tenants...the PH is also a stones throw to the next building and visions of cat burglars come to mind...overall, the PH was not worth the sale price given the above and the previous mention of the "Monster Sushi" on 1st floor, bus stop outside door and generally issues with 23rd at that location

another one at the mercantile. below seller's purchase price in '06 and the price in '05 as well.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/380776-condo-252-seventh-avenue-chelsea-new-york
11/15/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,665,000.
12/02/2005 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,800,000.
04/24/2006 Corcoran Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $1,750,000.
07/20/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $1,710,000.
12/07/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,949,000.
01/13/2009 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available.
02/07/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,850,000.
03/02/2009 Price decreased by 3% to $1,795,000.
03/19/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,699,000.
04/03/2009 Price decreased by 3% to $1,650,000.
04/25/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $1,590,000.
05/07/2009 Price decreased by 3% to $1,550,000.
05/21/2009 Price increased by 10% to $1,700,000.
05/31/2009 Price decreased by 3% to $1,650,000.
06/05/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $1,590,000.
07/01/2009 Listing entered contract.
09/16/2009 Listing sold.
09/16/2009 Sale recorded for $1,520,000.
09/24/2009 Listing sold.

thanks again ar--this is close to what i will be lowballing next summer

kudos to the bro linda chen on this one: see the floorplan..easy to see, honest square footage

others should note the good will this earns as one considers dealing

Something very interesting happened at the Chelsea Mercantile: certain lines were "good" and sold very well and others poorly: I particularly remember the North facing 2 brs on low floors seemingly taking forever to sell and at what seemed like relatively lower prices. But the strange thing was as the market improved, those same units seemed to get much closer in price to the units which sold much better in the original sale of the building. So you had this HUGE price appreciation on these units. I remember (or at least I think I do) seeing some of these units which had been "given away" for like 600k to 700k asking like $1.6 MM and thinking "OMFG! that's a HUGE increase. What are they thinking?" and then seeing them sell.

30yrs, you're an f'ng prince. if i ever do decide to go forth and boldly conquer where others have conquered before me, i'll keep in mind that the lower floor north units may have more room for negotiation.

this is one of the few buildings that tempts me. and i really prefer northern light to southern.

74 Fifth Avenue #10B: Same-unit resale, 14.3% below mid-2005 basis.
--------- Recorded Sales ---------- | --------- Previous Listings ----------
09/14/2009 #10B $1,710,000 - 8.8% |↓ $1,875,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,900 ft²
08/18/2005 #10B $1,995,000 .......... |
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/74-5-avenue-manhattan

No tears for the sellers. They just bought a Chelsea condo for $7.2MM.

west81st, no tears indeed. but i think that's an interesting catch. one of the pervasive bullish arguments on here is that people who 'don't have to sell' will simply hold on to their units and wait for the market to turn around. here we have a case of people who can afford to buy an apartment more than 3x as valuable as the one they already own who are still willing to take a 14% loss on their 2005 basis.

that said, i don't think this is a great apartment. i'm surprised they paid 2 for it in 2005.

"truthskr10, the building @ 158 is the dealkiller. crap entrance with monster sushi as the tenant. and loud!"

I thought that address was vaguely familiar, I didn't even go look at that apt because it was the monster sushi building.

"i'll keep in mind that the lower floor north units may have more room for negotiation."

except that a lot of them have traded since the initial, so the current owners may not be the one's with the room.

actually, 30yrs, there hasn't been that much trading, or hadn't been until recently, given the number of units. unless there were a bunch of really early flips that i don't know about. this building seemed very stable, relatively, to me. prove me wrong if you will, but i think there's a fair bit of room here.

My recollection is that there were a LOT of flips in the first 3 or 4 years since the prices pre-construction were so much lower than immediately post-closing. Then things settled down after the initial "shake out" of flippers. For example, I seem to remember there were over 25 sales in both 2003 and 2004 (i.e. each of those years) and while it's a large (?350? unit building) I think that's still on the high side of "normal".

74 Fifth Ave. #10B - I've seen the apt., its pretty nice. The buyer is a real estate lawyer with a major firm . . . . maybe he knows something.

30yrs, i still think there's room. if not, so be it.

240 Park Ave South # 11D

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/240-park-avenue-south-new_york

Sold on Apr 11, 2008 for $1,230,000
Sold on Jun 26, 2009 for $990,000

20% drop in 1 year

10/13/2006 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,280,000.
04/11/2008 Previous Sale recorded
05/20/2008 Prudential Elliman Listing sold. Last priced at $1,550,000.
10/29/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $1,480,000.
11/06/2008 Price decreased by 2% to $1,450,000.
11/17/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $1,399,000.
11/22/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $1,350,000.
12/05/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $1,295,000.
01/03/2009 Price decreased by 2% to $1,275,000.
01/23/2009 Price decreased by 2% to $1,250,000.
02/20/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,190,000.
04/25/2009 Listing entered contract.
06/26/2009 Listing sold.
06/26/2009 Sale recorded

Below 2005 sale price and not sold yet at $1,100 per sf. We need to see more lofts below $1,000 per sf, I am thinking $750-800 is where to buy.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/385037-coop-459-west-broadway-soho-new-york

StreetEasy History

11/10/2005
Previous Sale recorded for $3,875,000.
02/17/2009
Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $4,850,000.
02/23/2009
Price decreased by 5% to $4,600,000.
03/17/2009
Price decreased by 9% to $4,200,000.
07/03/2009
Price decreased by 6% to $3,950,000.
09/11/2009
Price decreased by 8% to $3,650,000.

1378 sf, $711 psf, but on 23rd and a first floor unit. live/work condo. still nice 20%ish reduction from later 2005 price.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/468241-condo-344-west-23rd-street-chelsea-new-york
10/28/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,230,000.
05/18/2006 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,375,000.
05/16/2007 Corcoran Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $1,310,000.
10/02/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Citi-Habitats at $980,000.

AR: Good find, but no need to make excuses. As Wendy's used to say: comps is comps. Does anyone believe that comps were being dissected with detailed analysis on the way up? Why start now?

re:344 West 23rd: while this may have been advertised as a "live/work" unit, the building is a typical 80's residential doorman condo. Similar unit 1A sold $1,035,000 08/26/2008.

First loser at 40 Mercer, the Jean Nouvel building with the movable window walls. Greedy flipper chasing the market down waited too long and will now take at least a $200k+ hit.

StreetEasy History

03/16/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $2,350,000.
09/28/2007 Listed in StreetEasy by Mercedes Berk at $2,995,000.
12/13/2007 Listing is no longer available.
02/21/2008 Re-listed by Mercedes Berk.
02/21/2008 Price increased by 9% to $3,250,000.
04/07/2008 Price decreased by 8% to $2,995,000.
09/02/2008 Listing is no longer available.
10/06/2008 Re-listed by Mercedes Berk.
10/31/2008 Delisted.
11/13/2008 Re-listed by Mercedes Berk.
11/13/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $2,850,000.
12/01/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $2,750,000.
12/12/2008 Price decreased by 5% to $2,625,000.
12/23/2008 Listing is no longer available.
10/16/2009 Re-listed by Mercedes Berk.
10/16/2009 Price decreased by 16% to $2,195,000.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/110459-condo-40-mercer-street-9-soho-new-york

"at least" being the operative word here. 2k per square foot, plus 4k/month in taxes and maintenance, is not exactly a screaming bargain.

whoa..many of these traded at >3000$ psf

secondary sales will come at 1500 best and maybe worse

40 mercer #9

Well it looks like they paid all cash so any rental above it's $1900 per month maintenance costs would be a positive cap rate. ;)

i miss this thread