getting an engineer to review a coop before purchase

well, you're buying your property as is. you have the right to inspect your property until closing. if there's any problem, you should address it with your lawyer. the cost of hiring an inspector is pretty cheap. you have to make sure they are licensed to perform an inspection.

i had an inspector come in to look at a coop before purchase. Honestly because of some limitations (ie they can only look at the physical unit etc) I don't think the inspector is really worth the money. But they are relatively cheap and you are certainly entitled to one.

We recently had to have an electrician rip out and replace wiring completed by a fool.

The previous owner had sold the apt to us as remodeled, but didn't know what he was
doing. The electrical problems were hidden behind counters, walls and fixtures. There
goes another few thousand plus cost of plaster repair. We were lucky that no one had
gotten electrocuted. Jackass should be deported!

Also when I was at 59th St. Home Depot picking up supplies, I overheard a couple of guys talking...

"I would go with that cheaper one, it doesn't have to last long since your flipping it anyway."

Post 3 is absolutely wrong - in a coop or condo, the inspector should be allowed to roam (within reason) freely throughout the building - especially to the basement to inspect the water, heat, electrical, and plumbing systems with an appropriate building representative (super or whatever). This is crucial. A good inspector will also go up onto the roof of the building to see its condition and inspect mechanicals like the elevator (if located up there) and the water tower (if applicable). A good inspector will also do a visual on the outside of the building looking for issue like cracks, damage, age, condition, and any issues to be aware of (one inspector told me in no uncertain terms to beware of building with terracotta facades - while very beautiful to look at, they tend to crumble in temperature extremes and car pollution, and require constant upkeep, meaning regular assessments for the coop/condo). In addition, the inspector will walk throughout the stairwells and look at the fire escape (if applicable), assuring that the building has the proper modes of egress demanded in a fire (or other similar) situation. You are NOT just buying your unit - you are on the hook if the building has problems. Any building that was not completely forthcoming with their board minutes, financials, or that did not allow a reasonably unfettered examination by a highly qualified inspector in advance of my purchase would be OFF my buy list 1-2-3.

What in the hell ever happened to human pride? Flipper must not understand the concept of Karma...

To#4... you had the option in your contract to perform a detailed inspection of your future home. It is your ignorance for not doing so. As far as "deportation..." you need to be educated as most Americans and their ancestors immigrated into the Americas.

most amercians.....as a native american i would be very happy if you all left

Interesting comments in light of six people I know who bought within past two years and none had an engineer. Now I will consider one. How much does an engineer/inspector usually charge to inspect the apartment and the common areas?

#8, How are you going to inspect after the plaster is up? The wiring was hidden behind
sheetrock, tile & plaster. In our coop we are responsible for all wiring after it leaves the fuse box. I just posted this to warn others.

The guy that did this was a F__king Asshole, and to do work that could have
electrocuted another person because he was cheap, illegal activities and not using licensed, bonded, skilled craftsman that understand City and US Electrical codes.... I should
report him to US Customs so they can get him the hell out of this country before he indeed
burns down an apartment in the city. FY too.

I would certainly have an inspector for a single family home or townhouse, I didn't know how it works for co-ops, condos, so thank you, #6, for enlightening us all. A dear friend likes to say, "you snooze, you lose" & he's right. Thanx again.

#6 here again - A complete inspection by a reputable firm will take anywhere from 30-90 minutes, and should cost somewhere between $500 - $1,000, depending on the time required for the inspection and to write up the full report. Everybody buying a condo/coop in the five boroughs should go through this process - it's very educational if the inspector lets you tag along (most do), and you'll be aware of the positives and deficiencies to look for in any place you decide to purchase. No place will give a 'perfect inspection' (there's no such thing), but you'll learn to balance the essentials with the not-so-essential.

I've always heard that you should accompany the inspector & carry a pen & note pad & flashlight & get as much info as you can.

so can anyone post some reliable companies or ppl

#12... there are tons of contractors in new york who works illegally without a contractor's license. Your frustration regarding an "illegal immigrant" performing the work is unfounded. If you look at yourself in the mirror... it will have the sign --> "STUPID" written all over it.

In general, what happens when the inspector finds something wrong with the property? Do you have the right to walk away from the contract or re-negotiate the price? Or does the seller simply have to fix the property?

#17
I'm not talking about illegal immigrants doing work correctly. I'm talking about
a person that hides wire splices behind sheetrock without electrical boxes.
I'm talking not using wire nuts, only wrapping bare wires together. Not using electrical tape,
not using boxes for overhead light fixtures and fans. Not grounding GFI circuits correctly
and having hot wiring that could have electrocuted an unknowing person that washed dishes and
grabbed onto an under the counter light.

I was upgrading a light fixture (noticed no box or wire nuts)after pulling it down and called in a electrician to check out ALL the work. I was smart enough to know there was a serious problem and possibly save the entire apt (and human life) from a future fire
from the illegal work that was completed without a permit or inspection.
You could have been one of the neighbors in the coop.

Its all corrected now, but the electrican said that he had never seen anything like that
in 35 years of working in Manhattan. Now do you understand why I'm pissed off.

At least when I look in the mirror I won't be electrocuted from a GFI circuit not
working. Would you have been wise enough to realize there was a big problem?

Hopefully you will understand that this person is a liability to EVERYONE in the city.
What is really weird is that this person had the concept of wiring down but was not using
standard electrical supplies, was that to save 25.00? You think ours was the only place he wired?

#18: in terms of finding something 'wrong,' as I said above, there is something 'wrong' with every property - no property passes inspection with a 'perfect' review. So assuming that your inspector finds a truly significant issue, at that point it's for the lawyers to discuss either a cure, or a rebate, or rescinding the deal altogther. In addition (and this is important), there should be TWO inspections. One at the very beginning of the process just after you've committed to buy, and then another, by the same inspector, just a few days before you actually close on the unit. This makes sure that nothing has signicantly changed in the months between contract and closing. The second inspection is basically the same as the first, but a bit quicker, as the inspector will know what to look for, and will just be doing a review.

Thank you for this great, IMPORTANT info. Most of my real estate knowledge comes from Los Angeles where I lived for many years but I understood that the offer was made based upon the place passing inspection then if there are issues you can either walk away or have the seller do the repairs or renogotiate the price & do the repairs yourself.

Can someone recommend an inspector? In light of this post I think that I will have a co-op that I am interesting in purchasing inspected after we enter contract. I have been told by a real estate broker that this is a waste of money, but this thread really makes me feel different about the importance of inspection. Thanks!

"This post really makes me feel different about the importance of inspection."

Really? This post is moronic. Unless you are talking about a unit in a 4 unit townhouse that you will be 25% responsible for keeping up, what the heck is an engineer going to do in an apartment building that a review of the Board minutes won't reveal? An engineer can't go pulling light fixtures off the wall, remove appliances to punch holes in the wall to see how they were wired and plumbed. He's going to do what? See if the building needs a new furnace? If it does you aren't going to buy there? Come on. (I can't believe I'm actually writing all this. It's so stupidly obvious.) If you have some real issue like a custom glass staircase that concerns you because it seems wobbly or something out of the ordinary I guess an engineer makes sense BEFORE you go into contract, but this isn't HGTV-land. It's NYC. "IMPORTANT" info indeed. This thread died a deserved death 11 months ago. Shame on you for reviving it martine78. Geesh. The things people who have no idea what they are doing come up with...

Kylewest is correct. But his tone to martine is a little too harsh. She's new here and doesn't know. Yes, Martine, the fact is that any problems in the building will be hinted at or discussed outright in the board minutes. You have to understand that the coop world (condos, too) here in NYC is a completely different world than what you formerly knew. No one will be able to recommend an inspector for you ---- you should concentrate on having a super-good real estate attorney. That's where your money should go. Keep talking to people, and don't rely on a few comments from an internet thread. You've got to spend HOURS and HOURS researching if you're going to rely on internet threads for the basis of your knowledge . . . . Get the best real estate attorney you can.

Martine --- I just noticed that you'd responded to an eleven month old thread. Kylewest is absolutely correct. This thread (all quite dated) is stupid and useless beyond belief. We're not in Wichita. It just doesn't work that way here. People here don't hire inspectors for coops. It's all in the board minutes, and if the board minutes are crappy or suspect, your good attorney will be able to sniff it out. You need a good real estate attorney!!! Forget the inspector thing.

"...what the heck is an engineer going to do in an apartment building that a review of the Board minutes won't reveal?"

Problem is, many boards issue scant meeting minutes. Unless it's something like allocationg funds for 'roof maintenance' it's unlikey that discussions about electrical or plumbing issues that crop up would be included.

furhter, depending on the coop, the board may not always know everything that's wrong with the building. It's not like they always discover these sorts of issues as soon as they arise.

Some perspective, please. In Manhattan, it is virtually unheard of to have an engineer inspect a coop for sale unless it is with an architect/designer/contractor to estimate and advise re: renovations or for special circumstances I describe above. All this theorizing about how an inspection may be useful is simply not reflective of actual practice in the real world. This type of thread is a dis-service to readers of this site and diminishes the quality of the forums overall. Leaving people thinking that if board minutes are inadequate then an inspection is called for is simply wrong. If minutes are inadequate the risks of buying in the coop go beyond anything an inspection would address. Once you find a coop apartment you like and can afford, the next most important consideration is the health of the corporation. If due diligence of the financials, minutes, city filings, etc. don't satisfy you about the condition of the building, I can't imagine an attorney saying, "well, let's have an engineer poke around and then we'll sign the contract." Come on. This is absurd. Follow the musings on this thread and you proceed at your own risk.

Ouch...Kylewest...No need to be so harsh, I was just asking for help and advice.

To defend my post (as naive as it may have been):
1. I reposted to an old thread because I did a search of the board, instead of posting a NEW question to address an old issue. As a message board reader I know it is annoying to revisit old issues time and time again.
2. I am from Seattle (new to NYC real estate) and my 3 closest friends work in real estate, mortgages, and law (albeit in Seattle)... and they suggested to me since I am not getting a mortgage (and therefore will not be having a bank inspection) then it might make sense to hire someone to do a inspection on my behalf.
3. I know someone who is on a co-op board who tells me that they are VERY cautious about what they put in the minutes from the meetings, as not to deter future sales in the building. I have been told that they are intentionally vague about any building problems, as not to create any red flags for any future buyers.

To conclude, I really enjoy this board and I thank everyone for advice (even if it is unnecessarily hostile).

martine78, sounds like you have good insight, esp if you know someone on the board of your potential home.

I apologize for my tone which could admittedly have been softer. My frustration is not directed at you but at those who repeatedly come to these forums posting ill-informed advice for people who aren't in a position to realize just how poor the advice is. You are quite right, marine78, that it is better to build on a post that is relevant to you than to keep starting new ones that are redundant. Thank you for that. As for "bank inspection," forget it. The bank appraisals are ridiculous. Most appraisers are known to the better real estate agents, they have friendly relationships often enough and the so-called inspection is a very rough appraisal to just be sure the numbers in a deal aren't totally out of whack (paying $2MM on a property worth $500K). The bank does nothing even approximating due diligence. So mortage or not, it really has no bearing on the question whether to get an engineer's inspection. Lastly, it is true that most minutes are very brief, but major issues should be appearing. What isn't appearing can often be found in city filings. For example, if the building is in compliance with Local Law 11 facade regulations, that can be found through the Dep't of Buildings. If it isn't, then a lawyer should be asking when the building expects to come into compliance, how extensive the work will be and how much it should cost along with how it will be funded. If the building has done major improvements (replace windows, new roof, new furnace, new sidewalk vault, repair to balconies, etc, you can be sure they'll put that positive stuff in minutes. If there is no indication of capital improvements, again your lawyer would ask about that and what is planned. Your agent can do that, too. The building financials will also reflect capital expendures past and planned. This is all why thorough due diligence is SO important and that you hire an attorney in whom you have the utmost confidence and, if you are working with a broker that the broker be someone whom you trust and like. Surround yourself by qualified people and they will help insure you make wise decisions in the purchasing process.

Thanks Kylewest,

I really appreciate your advice and feedback...helps a newbie like me navigate the hazardous waters of new york real estate. :)

And thanks for saving me money on a useless inspection.

I paid $425 for an inspection of a unit in a 95 year old building. The co-op's managing agent and my real estate agent was on site for the inspection, and the inspector found problems with the plumbing -- lack of cold water pressure -- and a broken faucet in the kitchen. He also found our window guards weren't up to code. I suppose I could have saved the $425 and fought my own battles, but the inspector Dennis Kanakis, did it for me and I was grateful. The co-op took immediate action, and best of all everything was fixed before we moved in and I didn't have to fight for it. It was just taken care of.

The plumbing problem wasn't listed in the co-op meeting minutes to the best of my knowledge.

Kylewest's comments are absolutely helpful and correct. Valldejuli's anecdote is interesting, but it's all tiny, tiny potatoes ---- these are tiny items that can be noticed and responded to without an inspector. And it's just one anecdote.
Also, Martine, don't pay attention to real estate people from out of state. The NYC coop scene is so very, very different ------- it will just confuse you. Yes, the coop minutes are always careful and covert about these things -------- but generally there are hints of these things and your attorney will be competent enough to pick up on them. Mostly you need a good real estate attorney . . . and I'm absolutely neutral about attorneys, but at least they aren't in the compromised position that the "close-the-dealers" brokers are . . . .

Most people dont hire an inspector for co-ops or condos. You do not have to be an engineer to see if the toilet flushes or of the appliances work. But if you are paranoid, do get one.

You absolutely need a lawyer you can trust. The above posters are correct that the board minutes can be deceiving. Even so, the board most likely won't be talking about the specifics of anything in the apartment you are purchasing unless it's something major.

Where does one find / hire an inspector anyway?

Seeking Unofficial Advice
http://unofficialadvice.blogspot.com/

There are many home inspectors. Make sure they are P.E. (Engineers). YOu can find them in the yellow pages. They range from $300 to $450

What do inspectors bring to the table that you wouldn't be able to do yourself? And are they worth it?

Seeking Unofficial Advice
http://unofficialadvice.blogspot.com/

See? I knew this thread would get out of control and fill up with retarded advice and comments that do nothing to help someone who didn't know much about Manhattan RE. The forum's newest astoundingly poor typist and grammar-challenged contributor REALESTATELAWYER, along with the silly self-promotor unofficial_advice proved the point I made 2 days ago in response to martine78's reviving this thread.

Just want to add that not sure I would recommend Dennis Kanakis.
I scheduled with him after reading emmapup's thumbs-up.
He canceled the appointment 15 minutes before meeting time (and I took a day off for that!), and very inresponsive when I push to reschedule for the next two days. Maybe it's just my bad luck, but this engineer does not seem responsible.
He's very quick to pick up the phone when I set up the appointment, but in MIA after the last minute cancelation.

ok. despite of the scheduling drama. Dennis completed the inspection and he's pretty good at that.
just have to put it out there.

I used Tom Walsh...All Aspects Home Inspections. He answered all questions, very helpful and professional... worth every cent. TheArtofInspection.com

OK, at the risk of reviving a thread everyone appears to be sick of: what about if you're considering purchasing in a new condo (renovation or new construction). Also, I've read more than a few stories of shoddy construction in the new condo buildings that have sprung up around NYC. And of course there's no public tenant history to work from... Would an inspector make sense here?