Brompton Buyers are Organizing

A quick look at ACRIS shows closing started. i just looked at the first few, 2 units filed as closed as of 2/27. 4L and 5M.

How ridiculous is this: "Related says 90 percent of the units in the 22-story luxury tower are under contract, with prices ranging from $615,000 for a studio to $7.95 million for a 4,500-square-foot, five-bedroom penthouse.

The developer has told buyers it has a waiting list of 200 potential buyers"

http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/span-style-font-size-24px-related-runs-from-recession-span

I, for one, would be pleased to be added to their "waiting list of 200 potential buyers" - at 50% off the asking price, plus a mortgage continency clause . . .

according to SE, five are closed and show the names of the owners.

Does anyone know the "true success" of nocondo.com in terms of retrieving deposits, and at what cost to use "nocondo.com?

On those five closings, does anyone know if there were any changes in the sales price from the most recent amendments?

I know the Related Companies well and I have looked at the Brompton in the past since I live in the area and am looking to buy. Related Florida is in real trouble. Some of the lenders to Related FL projects are also lender to the Related NY projects. When Florida goes down those lenders will get tough on the Related NYC projects. The real problem that all of you are missing is that the construction lenders that are going to be the real problem. Related (and all RE developers) will try and keep the prices at the level that takes out the debt and gives the investors a high level of profit as long as they can. This is classic real estate finance. It will not be until the damn breaks and the construction lenders pull the plug that you will get any deals. It is useless to try and work with Related at this time since they still hope and pray they can close all these units at 2007 prices. At some point a lender may take over and then it is a new ball game. Related is out at that point. Again, I have no crystal ball and Related could work with the lenders since it is one of the better known firms, but I am just trying to paint a picture of what may be the likely scenario.

Boo- very insightful, thank you.

On a slightly different topic, has anyone visited the building; I understand that the sales people are pretty brutal when it comes to manners but how is the staff running the building?

i just don't get it...it is terrible for many that the market has dropped.

There is another string started by someone who is trying to sell their co-op and talking about the buyer trying to back out. Everyone is outraged at the buyer's behavior.

Here everyone is outraged that the developer is acting just like the co-op seller, i.e. they want to try to close the deal based on the original terms.

As I said...it is terrible that the market has dropped. Although there are many, many other strings here where people are congratulating themselves for having forseen this and others are licking their chops waiting for the big bargain.

Tell me again, though, why are the big developers acting badly .

columbia, in a way they aren't. but they already have. it's kind of like a giant Ponzi scheme of its own. Related does very poorly in s. fla., thinks it can make it up through the current hot market of NYC, tries to do so.

Anything wrong with this? Yes and no. Contracts in preconstruction deals, in a hot market, are unbelievably developer-friendly. Markets may become developer unfriendly, but the bottom line is that these are sophisticated financing deals that they have. Ross is not going to lose his home or all of his savings. He is taking a gamble that he can afford, and hoping that an overhyped market will induce many others to take the same gamble. If he loses, it's oh well, wait for the next up market, I'll be forgiven. If people who have sunk 20% into his development realize it's awful, they have to make the decision about their own finances and it can affect them for quite some time.

Is one side entirely to blame, or is one entirely blameless? No, absolutely not. This was a very painful game being played, but I would argue that the top developers should have, and did have, far more reliable information in 2007 as to market conditions than 95% of their buyers. When does spinning things your way become deceptive? Tough call.

btw, I realize that Related was committed to NY before FLA tanked, but I still think the analogy is somewhat apt. Obviously it takes a very long time to develop in NY, one problem that if solved might benefit both developers and buyers.

Boo, I am very intrigued by your comment. I wonder if it is worthwhile to try and communicate with the "lender" of the developer to see their point of view and timing. Is that possible?

From the Real Deal article:
"We continue to meet the obligations of our contracts, and expect our purchasers to meet theirs," said Joanna Rose, a spokeswoman for Related. "We have no intentions to offer concessions."

Buyers at the Harrison, another Stern-designed condo at 205 West 76th Street, where Related is offering luxury apartments ranging from $765,000 for a studio to $7.1 million for a 2,900-square-foot, five-bedroom unit, are also having second thoughts about closing, sources said. Related says its position is the same as at the Brompton %u2014 no concessions %u2014 and that the waiting list remains long.

I am the last person in the world to want to sit and be an apologist for anyone much less developers but:

"it's kind of like a giant Ponzi scheme of its own. Related does very poorly in s. fla., thinks it can make it up through the current hot market of NYC, tries to do so."

you are seriously comparing bernie madoff to related? madoff engaged in out and out fraud--related did not trick anyone. believe it or not, related and other businesses are in business to make money -- if south florida tanks, they should look at other markets. its kind of like the us automakers trying to get out of selling pickups (florida) and enter economy cars.

" Contracts in preconstruction deals, in a hot market, are unbelievably developer-friendly."

now..why does an individual sign an unfriendly contract for an unbuilt property? because they're stupid? no, because they have seen many others make ungodly profits and thought they could as well. nothing wrong with that except the whining that comes along when it doesn't work out for them.

"Ross is not going to lose his home or all of his savings. He is taking a gamble that he can afford, and hoping that an overhyped market will induce many others to take the same gamble. If he loses, it's oh well, wait for the next up market, I'll be forgiven. If people who have sunk 20% into his development realize it's awful, they have to make the decision about their own finances and it can affect them for quite some time."

once again, like it or not that's they system. the idea is not to take larger risks (note the ibanks and AIG) than you can handle. so why is taking a gamble that he can afford a bad thing?

"I would argue that the top developers should have, and did have, far more reliable information in 2007 as to market conditions than 95% of their buyers. "

So..let me see if i have this correct. Related sat down in 2006/07 and said hey, looks like manhattan re market is gonna tank....lets build some very expensive buildings as quickly as we can and stick it to the poor idiots who buy in? They are gonna to get hurt big time either by being stuck with unsalable properties or making concessions or both. No one had any idea that the bottom was going to fall out.

To some extent they don't have to care if it's going to tank. They keep making money as long as they can. And then they don't. I seriously doubt that no one in real estate development had any idea that the bottom was going to fall out. They were already living through it in Florida.

No, I'm not comparing them to Madoff, I'm comparing them to Ponzi.

People don't just sign contracts because they think they are going to hit pay dirt flipping. They sign them because they want a home, and sometimes even because although they know it's a stretch they truly believe they'll be priced out forever. Now, they are quite rightly afraid. The job cuts in the professional areas are brutal. Even if you still have the ability to close, you'd be a fool to do so without adequate reserves, and people probably have quite rightly changed their definitions of adequate reserves.

Ross is taking a gamble that he personally can afford, but not one that we as a society can afford. Not one that the banks can afford either, they are the truly foolhardy ones here, the ones that should have known better than to make these horrendous construction loan decisions, particularly in 2006 forward. We as taxpayers are going to pay a tremendous amount because companies like Related and their banks have such glorious risk protection, now backed by the full faith and credit of the US government and its taxpayers.

bds- I don't have any details on the structure of the financing at the Brompton. Look at todays WSJ and read the article about Trump's project in Chicago. Here is what might be going on with Related in NYC. When the project was started it should have a lead lender and some mezzanine funding. Related and any other developer will try to sell all the properties at the current prices in order to pay off the loans and get a decent return on the project. However, if they can't close enough loans they will eventually breach some covenants which will require then to work with the lenders and potentially lose some control of the project. That is what Trump is going through right now in Chicago.

You can try to contact the lender but until Related starts missing deadlines my guess is that you will not get very far. I would keep an eye on the number of properties that sold. If it stays real low and the property is done then at some point the lenders will get more control and you could see some wiggle room on prices. I don't have a crystal ball but in this market I find it hard to believe that all these units will close at 1,800 a square foot.

I think that if the potential buyers get a lawyer and approach and reach out to the lender it would not hurt. Related will most likely keep putting pressure on the buyers to close asap.

I know Related in Florida is in big trouble and Centerline a Related firm that does affordable housing has been delisted and is now trading OTC at 17 cents a share. Related and all the developers of these NYC condo projects will try very hard to get these projects completed and sold at the existing prices. This could be a high stakes poker match and Related is all in.

Good luck. It really is a great building and if not for the complete collapse of the market this would have been a no brainer.

Boo, the one I have to deal with is Extell, the Rushmore. Extell is contending that they have very deep pockets and their finances are very much in order. Isn't that what Madoff said?!!!!

Hi Everyone:
Please help me. I bought a Jr. 1 bedroom in Brompton last January and the closing is scheduled on 4/22/09. But I read the article "What Contract?" and was overwhelmed. May I get in touch with any buyer who's in the same situation to discuss any options? My cell is 914 216 9124. Below is my letter to my attorney. Please read. It includes my thoughts at this point. Thanks.

(1) Get out of contract. At purchase, the sales office mentioned the unit would be clear with open city view. The other day I walked by and found there's a a huge water tank and rooftop right in front of the window. This discrepancy from the Offering Plan might serve as our ground for breaking the contract. We need to file claim with Attorney General's Office with long legal process ahead of us with uncertain outcomes. But the bottom line is we must get the deposit back.

(2) Renegotiate price. To abandon deal or start possible court/legal actions are good ways to put developer into negotiating mode.

(3) Get concession/money back. Ask developer to pay transfer/closing cost and tax. They'd better honor the 10-year 421 (A) Tax Abatement.

According to the article, 30 buyers at Brompton discussed online about the options we have in the global recession. The developer would pocket the down payment, which I definitely will not allow to happen, but they might be stuck with a unit that eventually sells for much less - or even worse, just sits.

I would greatly appreciate you take time and look into the above options we have at this moment since we are only 42 days away from the closing, and please advise me with the best solution, either back out of the contract with the refund of the deposit, or win some reliefs from the developer, the Related Companies.

JZ

jzhan, I doubt you have in writing that your apartment would clear. I can tell you w/o attorney that your argument is lame. Sorry.

JZ, would that be the same attorney who let you sign a contract for a back-of-the-building apartment without first nailing down just what "Refined East Side Surroundings" you'd be looking at?

If you want a lengthy and detailed recital of what you did wrong, yell. I'm just in the mood.

Thanks uppereast and nwt.
of course no writing in regards to the view. but if you go to brompton sales website, residence, studio, view, you will see a demonstrating pic of the view - clear of any obstacles. is this a mispresentation of offering plan?
i called adams bailey,pc, they charge 5k just as retainer to start. back out of contract with 20% back will be very tough according to them.They represent quite a group of contractees and significant $s.
are you buyers in contract like myself?
you are welcome to call me if you want to. I don't mind.

jz

jzhan: Go Nuclear. What else do you have to lose. You close on April 22. You have a whole month now leading up to the closing to list your apartment at some low resale price. The asking price will effect the developers options on the unsold units. Get other new buyers who have closed or will close to go Nuclear with you. Scorched Earth!!!
By going the way of a legal battle, you lose money to a non-winable argument. With the Nuclear option you get the attention of the developer and maybe they'll seek to silence you with $$$.

jzhan - did you ask Adam if he has been able to do anything for any of the buyers he already represents? It's pretty clear you're not going to be able to back out and get full refund of
your deposit, but did he tell you what he might be able to do for you for that 5K upfront payment?

let it go...

whathappened: they admitted it would be almost impossible to back out with full refund but renego of price is possible, in regards to what they will do, they refused to disclose strategies.
it seems to me now that even cut in price will be impossible before 4/22/09, that means i have to move on to complete closing.

Listen I'm sure a lot of banks are lending to the buyers who are about to close. If you re-list your apartment at some low price, the comparables will induce the banks to have a heart to heart with the developers. You have to get grease in the wheels and since the developer is not budging, go to other avenues.

Jzhan- Why in the world would Bailey disclose any strategies to someone who hasn't "bought" into the group?

Why would anyone hire a lawyer, much less pay them a $5K retainer, that wouldn't first tell the prospective client what his plan was to try to help? It is absolutely routine to ask that,
and to get an answer, before retaining a lawyer. You'd be a fool to hire the lawyer otherwise.

...so that way anybody could get the plan, regardless of whether they have skin in the game, and post it on the internet for everyone else to see? not sure I would want to hire a lawyer who would let the info out like that

...so that anyone from Related can call up and see what the group is planning?

StellaBlue, Are you still walking away? By the way, do you currently own and need to sell or are you a first time buyer?

you guys are hilarious....can't even agree on how to try to pull a fast one on the developer? get serious, you either have legal recourse or you don't. why don't two of you split one attorney and see where it gets you?

Hey cc, are you fresh out of empathy? Maybe thinking of this relative to x trillions of lost assets? I'm not getting a lump in my throat, either.

i keep thinking that they only lost 10%---what about the rest of us suckers who lost 100%!

if i walk away, i lose 10% or all 20%?
all units in brompton lost 30% in real market now?
what should I do?

jzhan, if you plan to live there several years, then close. The value might increase enough to offset your 30% paper loss.

If you planned to sell next year, then walk away and take the $160K loss.

(This assumes you agreed to pay, say, $800K.)

Lay the rough numbers out in a spreadsheet, with different projections, and see where you are.

I have a very difficult time understanding why a licensed real estate agent and professional is asking questions more befitting of a first-time buyer. This person has an ulterior motive or is not disclosing all elements of the situation truthfully.

Who is the licensed real estate agen? I hope not jzhan, he sounds so clueless.

crescent22, good catch. Hadn't thought to google jzhan's phone number. There I was thinking he was some naif who'd just rolled off the turnip truck, suckered out of his Lotto winnings.

wow

Funny, great catch

crescent22, I bow down to you. That is the funniest thing I have ever seen on SE. I feel unworthy even posting on the same thread as you.

Sorry, I missed it, how did you catch that? Did he post a phone number? I don't see it.

Dear Mr zhan,

You have one very angry ex-client somewhere, and he has thought of a clever way to sully your reputation.

407PAS, yeah, up there somewhere. "Help me. Here's my number. Call me. I don't mind."

crescent22, I think you've got it. More fun for somebody than calling in a pizza order.

Are you suggesting he's not really a brompton buyer? What would his motivation be?

I'm of two minds.

jzhan's posts might have been genuine. After all, there's nothing to prevent a broker/CPA/whatever from making a bad investment decision. (My own sister comes to mind....)

Or, anyone could've posted as jzhan, and given his phone number, as a joke or dig.

Either way, some of us neglected to follow the clue and wasted our pity/scorn/advice.

I suspect others of us spotted this at the start and had a side-bet going.

I'll report back in May, in case there'll have been an actual closing.

I think it has turned into a rental!

Anyone check out how may units in this bldg have closed? Its a shockingly low number

why is it shocking? because people don't want to lose 40% from day one? more shocking are those who are buying.

According to the Real Deal article the buyers are falling on their swords and sucking it up. Congrats on finding such lovely residences on 85th and 86th Streets.

http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/buyers-band-together-to-negotiate-with-builders

Interesting article The interstate Land Sales Full Disclosure Act has been written about. A number of lawyers seem to be marketing their services based on their ability to launch a defense based on it. If it's applicable to a buyer, then it's something to watch.
I would also not be surprised if it were to come out that this article was a Weiner P.R. piece to get more business.

From the beginning, Related was not going to be rolled. Some of these buyers had profits on apartment from years of buying and selling. And guess what? The music stopped and they got caught.
Enjoy!!!

I sense a progression, from nobody buying pre-construction to developers generating interest by underpricing the first tranche of released units. That and the rising market created an expectation that first in meant guaranteed profit to the early buyers. Perhaps the first tranche buyers should've had their prices adjusted upwards based on the last tranche buyers?

In the last round of construction, developers seem to have come out with their maximum price right away and didn't believe they needed to entice buyers. Buyers didn't seem to noticed the game as in it's last inning. No sympathy for them. There was nothing unethically done here.

last in when the music stops always sucks. oh well. somebody has to be last.

it looks to me as though floors 3-16 have apartments A-Q (plus what i'd guess are larger units on higher floors). they have a closing recorded on 16, which means that about 240 units should have been available thus far for closing. they've closed around 70, one shows up as late as 6/1. even with a possible reporting lag, that doesn't seem superb to me.

I've done some work on the Brompton.

Re: number of apartments, it's way less than 240.
- Floors 3-9 have units A-Q but excluding D, I, N and O, so 13 per floor and 91 in total. I am fairly confident that this is correct
- Floors 10-16 appear to have units A-M but with CD offered as a combination (a single lot number) and no I, so 11 per floor and 66 in total. I am less confident of this, but at worst it's close to right
- There are fewer, larger units per floor on 17-20 (looks about 6 per floor) plus some penthouse units and two 'townhouse' units on the 85th Street side near the entrance.
- To me the total looks like about 190, + or -. If I knew how to find the latest offering plan in ACRIS I could get the exact figure, but I think 190 is close

Some time ago, jake mentioned on another thread Related marketing materials describing 193 units:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/5691-what-is-the-real-story-on-the-lucida-and-the-brompton

I don't know if the 193 is before or after combinations. I would think after combinations like 10-16CD that were collapsed into a single lot number at the outset but before various other ad hoc combinations (4MPQ, 18ABC, PH2CD, etc), so the total number of apartments, net of ad hoc combinations, will be well under 193

I will do another post on the closings to date, remaining inventory and other observations.

sidelinesitter, thanks for the info. but they're still probably not at half. will be interesting to watch over the next couple of months. my 70 was counting the extras in the combinations listed to date.

looking a hell of a lot better than the Rushmore, though.

looking a hell of a lot better than the Rushmore, though.

Best Worst building of the year....

jzhan...judging for how low rentals are going for in the brompton, as a percentage of sales price, I would definitely walk if your only options are to close and to close now. 20% hurts, bad i am sure, but do not contact the developer to try to get out:

Here is what you do. Make yourself out to be an honest buyer (do not tell the developer the product is not worth what it is as then you will seal your fate), and that you can't get a mortgage, or come up with some other excuse. In such a case, the developer of a largely unsold building will treat you less like a threat and should offer you time, although you may be penalized as per the contract terms. Nonetheless, as time progresses, the developer will start to see who closes and who doesn't. They will still likely not default you presuming you play the honest buyer game. Once the developer has closed all the deals they can (this can take up to 6-12 months), they are going to cut the price of their units. At that point, seeming tha you are still in contract and your downside is still 160K, you should be motivated enough to move forward. In the worst case, you buy the same apartment back at a cheaper price and lose the deposit. In the best case, the developer does not default you and offers you the market rate pricing. This works with a lot of time and patience, just keep communicating, do not get hostile.

Hostility will just cause you to lose more money in attorney and litigation.

Bromption closings, per ACRIS, through June 12. Most of these are in SE but a couple didn't get picked up.

ACRIS shows 62 closings that cover a total of 76 lettered units (due to combinations). For example, 4A is one closing and one unit, while 4MPQ is one closing but 3 units. They have been generally been closing the building from the low floors up, starting from 4B on 2/11/09. Closings started on floors 4-7 in February, 8 in March, 9-11 in April, 12 in May, etc.

The lag between closing and the documents being filed in ACRIS averages 14 days (min 2, max 48, median 13), so there are almost certainly more closings that have happened over the past few weeks that have not yet appeared.

On average they closed 5 units per week in February and have been running around 3.5 - 4 since then.

Of the 78 units (6x13) on floors 4-9, 54 (69%) have closed and another 8 are listed in SE as in contract. There are no sale listings except for 6A (reoffered by the owner at a silly price above cost). The status of the other 16 units is unclear (in contract but not so listed in SE? not in contract but not listed for sael? etc). Closings per floor range from 11 of 13 on the 4th floor (all but 4F and 4L) to 6 of 13 on the 9th floor. The rest are at 9 or 10 of 13. The 3rd floor appears to have the same layout as 4-9 but there have not been any closings yet. SE lists a few 3rd floor units as in contract.

Floors 10-12 are about half closed, with another quarter listed in SE as in contract or for sale and the last quarter unknown. Above 12 there have only been a handful of closings, so the coming weeks will provide more information as closings continue to move up the building.

Of the 62 closings, only 2 have an 80% mortgage, although there are quite a few 70s and 75s. Financing is split roughly equally between all cash (19 closings), mortgages of 65% or greater (22) and mortgages less than 65% (21). Total buyer leverage is 35% of purchase price, a figure that is held down by the fact that most of the largest purchases ($8-13mm) were all cash.

Time will tell whether the middle and higher floors have sold/end up closing at similar rates to the lower floors, but all in all this does not look like the disaster in the making (for Related anyway; buyers a different story) that some have been expecting and maybe cheering for. It does seem odd to me that they have been closing for 4 months and only have approx. 76 of 193 units closed, but the pace of construction on the higher floors must be a factor (just weren't ready earlier) and the closing rate of approx. 4 per week has been rock steady right up to the end of May (no real visibility on June yet because of the lag in filing).

StellaBlue - what is "shockingly low" about (i) 70% of the units having closed in the floors where construction was completed first or (ii) floors 10-12 going from zero closings to about 50% closed between mid-April (when closing started on those floors) and mid-May?

One last thing on my Brompton status check. There have been 11 rentals and another 7 are currently listed for rent, so we're looking at ~30% of the first 62 owners offering their apartments for rent just based on SE listings, which I would assume don't capture anything like 100% of the rental market.

One last thing on my Brompton status check.
1) Indicative of investment units
2) Sponsor may have forbid resales for 12 months
3) Buyer may have felt morally obligated to close

Sidelinesitter, that's great work on breaking down the closing info.

Does anyone have any update on the state of litigation against the sponsor?

jzhan closed on 12M last month, for $710K.

Great catch NWT. So the jzhan posts were real after all. We may just have witnessed a new low in broker intellect. Who knew that was still possible with so many other highly qualified candidates out there for the title of stupidest broker.

So say he can get $2800 for the rental, common charges on similarly sized jr 1-beds are around $700. With a tax abatement, his cap rate is about 3.5%. Not great at all, but some room from terrible.

Related blinks?

Most of the Brompton closings have been right on the listing price, with a few above - cases where Related squeezed a price increase out of some poor sucker, presumably during the pre-crash new condo land rush - and a few below, although not far below.

Yesterday 10L hit ACRIS. Closed at $2,500,000 vs. an ask of $3,000,000. 17% is by far the largest discount to list of any Bromption unit that has closed to date. $1,350/sf still seems like a kooky price, but it's less kooky than what the other 90-ish buyers who have closed at the Brompton paid. Two others in the same line (the L line on floors 10-16) closed previously, 15L for $3,325,000 and 16L for $3,249,500.

10L was shown in SE as listed but not in contract, so this could be the first data point on what price adjustment it takes to bring a new buyer to the table at the Brompton. If it actually was in contract but not shown as such in SE, then it's the first data point on what price adjustment a buyer can extract in order to agree to close. In either case, it's an interesting data point. It will be more interesting still to see if more trades like this print in the coming weeks.

I wouldn't read too much into this. It could also be that the 10L "close" price was the contract price agreed to way back when and that the "ask" reflected an artificial increase in line with increases for then unsold units.

Related may make concessions, but it won't be until the end...when they have to. It's too soon.

Point taken on ask vs. contract smoke and mirrors. We'll never know for sure. On the other hand. it's a big discount to the same line comps, which cuts through the listing optics and gets to where people have been willing to close.

Related seems to have done a very good job to date closing buyers at the Brompton, in contrast to many other developers with similar vintage new condos. I was surprised to see something seemingly this much out of line with others, so perhaps there is more to it as you suggest.

So what impact has attorney Bailey had in litigating for his clients trying to get out of their contracts and get their deposits back? It doesn't seem that for all his bombast that he has prevailed in any court action. Certainly Related hasn't cowered from his legal threats. Will his clients lose not only their 20% deposit, but also his attorney fees? Or did Bailey truly believe that he would prevail and took the case on a contingency basis?

From what I've heard, buyers are indeed closing at the Brompton and not walking en-masse, as was predicted by many on this blog.

bigcityfan.... like a convict that is told to show up at Rikers on 9-12-09 at 9.am. I'd doubt lots of house warming parties at the moment :)

According to the NYT RE Section today, there are concessions, perhaps, depending on which party you talk with.

Anyone familiar with the ongoing discussions between the parties and would like to share it with us here?

Link to article cited by streetview:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/realestate/25deal1.html?ref=realestate

I have to say, Related has done a great job so far getting these damned things closed. The number of recent buyers - many of mid- to high floor, larger units in the $2-4mm range - who have closed all cash (i.e., deed but not mortgage filed in ACRIS) or with a minimal mortgage is amazing. Most people have sucked it up and closed instead of walking from the deposit (the 4 Bailey clients mentioned in the article being exceptions). As an aside, new ACRIS postings have dried up to basically nothing over the last 2-3 weeks, so I'm begining to wonder if Related is hitting bottom on buyers willing/able to close.

One more interesting note about the NYT article is that it identifies the buyer and price for the entire PH1 floor that was the subject of this Brompton thread:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/12568-the-brompton-negative-air-pressure
In terms of risk mitigation on the project, it would be a big step for Related to get that deal settled and take $25mm (or even some reasonable discount to that) off the table.

Would it be a good time to buy a unit in this building?

Related was willing to give me a unit for $1250 psf. That's a fair amount of discount to other buyers who bought the units at near $1600 psf. I could wait a bit more but I really liked the layout/view that the unit had. So I want to move in when I can. It's a fairly small unit so I won't be losing tons of money if RE market tanked even more. What do you think?

Are you fucking kidding. Tell me this, can you rent it and make money assuming a 20% down payment? Not a chance.

Glad to see you coming around to my POV, Rhino!

:)

Ha you know it was always similar. Except for the part where I'm not supposed to measure my purchase against the alternative of renting and owning munis and t's. Nice new place and rebound in the Brazil index you cranky SOB.

Well why didn't you say you like the views and layouts!!!!! Thatz a steal, take it before there are no more!!!

Didn't say you weren't supposed to - I said that economists and accountants don't. Finance is a different sort of pie.

Yes I've been returning about 40% on my investments since March, but of course they were seriously diminished (aka devastated) post-Lehman. Fortunately my business is thriving, and this pleasant little (huge) cut in rent for much more space will help.

I'm not sure you ever admitted that until now. Which is fine. I recommend learning a little about technical analysis. It is scary accurate at times. Really the only think that saved people last year...and by people I mean some of the greatest trader/investors of all time like Steve Cohen, Soros and Tudor...is running for the sidelines when markets broke the long trendlines.

Are there better deals around? I was looking for a unit with a tax abatement in a decent quality building. Any suggestions?

The contract is supposed to be ready by Wednesday... I can still pull out if I see better alternatives...

there's a bridge....

"I'm not sure you ever admitted that until now."

Yes I did.

"I recommend learning a little about technical analysis."

I know quite a bit about it. I LUV FIBONACCI!

F_1: There are RENTALS!

Sep was a dead sale on a confluence of technical
signals. We are close to the 61.8 retrace
on the naz.

Do you think it matters?

Reality is an imperfect science. Technicals help. Saved many asses last year among the alert.

"Thatz a steal"

Doggiew67thstreet, is there some connection missing in your head that causes you to add a z when an s will suffice? Or was it that you grew up poor and now you have trust funds for your kids and your wife is a doctor and you were a TA in business school and you own a Porsche and a Rolex and a yacht?

You're right, Rhino, even if technicals only matter because people pay attention to them. It's the Measurement Problem in Quantum Mechanics.

Have you read any on consensus theory. A mob can find the right answer before individuals. Arguably technicals are a visual representation of same. As prices fall, more sellers sell. Thats not a measurement problem, its human nature. The market knew that Lehman failure would drive hysteria (or was a reflection of it). The market knew decoupling was not a correct premise.

Aw, did you make a screen name expressly to bust our balls? There should be a verb for that. Until then, I will just call you a pathetic loser. Worse still if you are one of the usual suspects.

Children, can we get back to the question at hand -- who knows anything about concessions to original contractees ( is that a word) ... who spoke to the NYT ...

This should be self evident, but apparently it isnt. If you are willing to forfeit your deposit, figure out your drop dead price and fight as hard as you would like. Ideally organize with other tenants. Why do you need affirmation? Your deposit is LITERALLY a purchase OPTION. It is how the language is written.

Wow, some dude hates the Brompton!

Definitely overpriced though.

One to watch. The first resale listing at the Brompton to go to contract: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/462880-condo-205-east-85th-street-yorkville-new-york

The first resale at the Brompton (#4L) closed 12/29 at $1,230,000, 8% below the Feb 2009 purchase.

02/25/2009 Previous Sale recorded for $1,343,450.
09/15/2009 Listed by Warburg at $1,450,000.
11/24/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,375,000.
12/10/2009 Listing entered contract.
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/Detail?Doc_ID=2010010700295003