Comments on FiDi Living?

Advertisement my friends, they are desperate down there, Pine 20, Broad 15, Wall 75, nothing is moving.. you can buy and live a tranquil, serene decade with your kids growing up, fine but if you care about the value of your investment you may want to wait 6 months and pay only 600-800 psf instead of 800-1100 now

I've been living in the Financial District for two years and i love it. There are many dining options in the area, several large food stores to choose from, and tons of subway choices. I also like living near the water and the South Street Seaport is very close by. I also appreciate the relative quiet of the area at night or on weekends. When you are down here, you feel like you're in an older part of New York with smaller, windier streets and buildings from the 1700's. I wish there were more retail options and maybe more entertainment options closer by but everything is a trade off.

Regarding prices on apartments, they are surely to fall though who knows how much. Of course everyone wants to get a good deal but, if you are buying a place as a home and not an investment and you are never going to sell the home, does it really matter what price you pay?

it will always seem strange and kind of creepy to live in the financial district something out a martian movie..wall street is a business district i don't understand why extra space would take the place of parks and residential neighborhoods. Ninja...the bldgs from the 1700's are beautiful but they are office bldgs not townhomes!!

I have a friend who is renting down there (John St) so I've had a chance to visit and explore the area. She got an amazing deal from an owner who bought as an investment and who is still losing money even with her rent payment coming in - her rent doesn't even cover his monthly common charge and interest portion of the owner's mortgage payment. A couple of things I have noticed:

1) Of all the "Emerging" neighborhoods in the city, FiDi probably has the most chance of surviving the downturn in the economy. There seems to be a strong enough base of residents for the area to remain a viable destination to live.

2) The canyon-like streets can be a little disconcerting. When you look up, all you can see is small patch of the sky that is directly overhead - no horizon, no direct sunlight - kind of like if you fell down a well and you looked up through the opening.

3) When I walk past some of the lobbies of the buildings in the area, they still look and feel like office buildings, so going inside feels like you're going to work. This is especially true as you step off the elevator and onto the floor itself. It still feels like you are going to someone's office instead of going to someone's apartment.

4) The only public school (currently) in all of downtown is PS 234, which is pretty far West (near Chambers St) and is incredibly overcrowded. Apparently, there are other schools in the works, but given the city's budget and fiscal condition, who knows whether or not this will happen or how they will turn out.

5) But my biggest concern is the financial condition of the developers of all these buildings that were caught mid-construction just as the new-dev market was collapsing. Many of the developers have run out of money before they were able to complete construction, still have lots of inventory what won't sell for anywhere near what they budgeted for, and are still on the hook for tens of millions of dollars that they have no way of paying back. This means that current owners are stuck with less/no amenities that they were promised, common charges will have to go up to make up for the shortfall and all those unsold units will eventually turn into rentals which will erode the value of purchased apartments.

iMom...it's interesting...you're opening says the the area will survive but every point thereafter states why it will not survive. Another point...going to visit your friend isn't very quick and easy probably.

It'll survive because I think it's established enough to carry it through. However, I have lots of concerns that may not affect other people's decisions. It'll probably make a good rental area. I think a lot of buyers bought as investments and are now underwater and looking to get any sort of income they can to offset their monthly carrying costs. If I were looking to rent, I would definitely check it out. But I wouldn't want to buy knowing that the developer ran out of money during construction. Assessments will be huge and common charges will likely go up - both of which affect the owner but not a renter.

BTW - going down there isn't difficult for me. I take the 4 or 5 train to Fulton Street and I live on the UES.

I wonder how many of you have actually been to FiDi residential bldgs. I know you ALL hate Wall Street, Wall Street workers, and Wall Street corporations--anything related to Wall Street. However, if you know anything about living in FiDi, you know comments such as "no supermarkets," "no parks," and "absolutely dead" are all coming from people who have not spent any time here.

I came to FiDi from a hip UWS, and here are what I have found out about how wrong people were:

1. There are 3 big supermarkets (one's open 24 hours) within two small blocks/2-minute walk. But I do FreshDirect anyhow--and my bldg. has a FreshDirect

2. There are about 6 Duane-Reades and CVSs within 3 or 4 small blocks/5-minute walk.

3. There are COUNTLESS restaurants in the immediate neighborhood. Ise, a Japanese restaurant, is the BEST in NYC in my opinion in its food, service, and cleanliness.

4. There is more pedestrian traffic than I saw in my old UWS neighborhood at night and through the weekends, and you don't face as many homeless individuals as you stoll down the streets.

5. My bldg., like others in FiDi, offers more amenities than most in the rest of the city, paritcularly given the price range.

6. I look directly at a beautiful park, and I get a water view, from my SUNNY 1300 FS apartment. Also, There are at least 3 parks in the immediate neighborhood (one is privately owned, yet it is open to public). My dog has never been this happy, nor have I had such easy access to parks in UWS.

7. "Eurocash" mentions 3 bldgs that aren't doing well, supposedly. There are many others that are successful, so saying that "nothing is moving" only shows his/her ignorance. My bldg is 90% sold, with someone closing on the unit nextdoor to mine this past Friday.

8. In my neighborhood, there aren't any more office bldgs than anywhere else in Manhattan below 96th, I don't think. I see a mix of tourists, locals walking their dogs, and businesspeople throughout a day/week, just like I did in UWS.

9. And, no, the neighborhood is never "dead" here, and I don't know where this rumor came from. Even Wall Street "proper" is FULL of tourists on weekday nights and over the weekend, day or night, not to mention FiDi where many people live.

Anyhow, I have no interest in promoting FiDi since I am not in the business, but it is really annoying when people voice their unwarranted stereotypes as though they are facts. But, then, I have heard some out-of-towners say stuff like the West Village being "gay ghetto" and they'd never even consider living there (uh, like what century are you from?) or Chelsea being the "poverty central." So I guess I should just let it go...

vanderveen..glad you're happy but I wouldn't live there and what no one wants to mention and unfortuantely would always be in my thoughts is another attack...they're not going to attack in a residential area they will aim for wall street because they know the financial district would have a much greater impact and that's scary.

Not meaning to be provocative, but I was in that Marriot on West Side Highway for a week, and I found the area behind it to be utterly dead at night, and i walked to Batt City to get some stuff at the grocery store, BPC is always kind of dead also. So -- is the inhabited part of FiDi more toward Seaport or what.

Ninja said "if you are buying a place as a home and not an investment and you are never going to sell the home, does it really matter what price you pay?"

Wow..."does it really matter what price you pay?" ????? That's exactly the attitude a seller/developer wants to encounter.

What if you paid $1,300 psf and your neighbor paid $750 psf 6 months later. Does it matter to you then?

people who live in FiDi will always defend the area but I've been down there in the pm and it is a dead..nothing will change that.

My wife and I moved to The District (I refuse to use the Kent Swig coined FIDI as it's, simply put, a stupid name - "The District" is much better) right after 9/11 and took advantage of the $500/month Federal rent subsidy. We've been living here ever since. When I moved here we had no children, now we have 2.
We love the accessibility of the rest of Manhattan. All of the trains are a 3 minute walk from our door. Lunch in Soho - I'm there in 15 min - concerts at The Garden - I'm there in 15 - Broadway shows 20 mins - brunch in Tribeca 5 min etc.
We love that there are no housing projects!!! You don't find some idiot high school dropout standing on the corner trying to sell you some spice that he claims is weed.
We love that it's quite. When I was younger I loved living in the West Village - the bar scene is over for me - I've been there done that.
We love the space, newness and amenities our apartment has. We also love the high ceilings - no shoebox for us.
We love the schools - although 89 and 234 are crowded new schools are finally opening.

BUT, be very careful about buying in one of these new buildings (even at $700/ft). Many of the buyers are in at over $1,000/ft. These prices are unsustainable and must fall. Many will foreclose and not pay their maintenance. The financial health of these new condo buildings is not good and not only do you buying an apartment you buy part of the building. If others don't pay their maintenance than you're stuck paying their share.
I highly recommend renting in The District. Find a condo buyer who thought he could flip his unit for big profits and offer to rent it at half of his monthly mortgage and maintenance expense. You'll love it here.

"The District" refers to our nation's capital. Try again.

Also, you've bought an herb, not a spice.

Jazzman: Your last paragraph is exactly my point. When you buy an apartment (co-op or condo), you're investing in the building. If the building is left with a weak financial position, you - as an owner - are stuck. A lot of the buildings in FiDi (as well as other 'hoods in the city) were conceived and modeled with significantly higher psf sales prices than what they are going for today, meaning that the existing owners are stuck with the difference. The NY Times had a good article on this recently talking about how lots of recent condo buyers are getting hit with higher common charges because other tenants are defaulting. This wouldn't be a problem if prices are constantly going up or even remaining stable, but with prices falling, it becomes a very dangerous situation.

Many of the neighborhoods in NYC are also neighborhoods elsewhere - there's no reason we can't double up. And in NYC the nations capital is referred to as DC not "The District."
Sorry, I've never bought herbs or spices - thanks for the correction though.

julia, have you actually been here at night (in the "neighborly"areas)? If so, are you sure you were in the middle of the business area? Even in Midtown, it can be "dead" in such areas, you know.

You can say FiDi is dead, there is nowhere to eat, there are no parks, it's not neighborly, and there are no supermarkets until you are BLUE in the face. But these statements just don't reflect reality, and I don't really appreciate it when people who don't live here tell me my perception is wrong.

People in FiDi always defend the area, says julia, but could it also be that ignorant people often take their frustrations out on FiDi, just because they resent Wall Street so much?

Also, jimstreetwasy, that Marriott is in Battery Park City. Once again, why criticize the area if you don't know what you are talking about... The next thing you know, someone will be criticizing BPC for not having parks, not being family friendly, etc... Oy.

vandeveen: the Mariott is not in battery park city....you have to cross west street to get to Battery park city and yes there is a difference. I used to live on greenwich street right around the corner from the mariott

people can and do criticize any area all over the city,its a real estate board for gods sake...stop trying to legislate what people can or cannot say, you're coming off as extremely defensive

if I worked down there I would definitely think of renting beause the prices are much less than anyplace else in Manhattan and for that I totally agree.

I don't live in NY yet but I've always loved the Financial District. I've been there a few time I think it's beautiful! I like those old buildings and the small winding streets. I also saw several food stores in the area so I wonder why people say there are no grocery stores!

I would live there...

Julia, you don't strike me as the kind of person that gets out much. Why would you care about night life?

Furthermore, most of "Wall Street" moved their HQs to midtown andas the article mentions fidi is essentially residential now. So by your reasoning terrorist should be hitting midtown and avoiding areas like fidi.

julia,

i have to admit i lost some respect for your posts after reading this.

"I wouldn't live there and what no one wants to mention and unfortuantely would always be in my thoughts is another attack...they're not going to attack in a residential area they will aim for wall street because they know the financial district would have a much greater impact and that's scary."

i guess u have the inside scoop on the playbook for our enemies?

With 8 million people living in and around NYC it won't be hard to find another 50K who will eventually fill The District. Once the Freedom Tower et al is finished (including all of the new retail) The District will only get better (and I think it's great now). I've lived other places in the city, much more expensive places, and there's not a neighborhood I'd rather live in than The District (well, if Tribeca were the same price per foot that would be my first choice, but the significant discount you get for living on the other side of Broadway is worth it to me).

If you want noise, bars, and edginess then don't live here. If you want space, luxury, and no housing projects then live here. No need to hate on The District because of what it's not, love it for what it is.

bart22...it scares me...I was there on 9/11 (not the WTC) and it still scares me when i need to go there. I said it's in my thoughts and I hope very much to never have it happen..

divvie...I don't strike you as a person that gets out much.. when I think about it i haven't been getting out much so maybe your right....i'm going to go out every night this week just to prove you wrong. And I would't live in midtown either...in fact i'm going out and purchasing a bubble to live in.

Clearly, julia has issues beyond her crazy posts. People have called her on this before, but she is indeed a deeply disturbed individual--like rufus--who is so self-centered that what she thinks is what everyone else should think in her little head. She is scared of 9/11, so it's dead at night/weekends and no one should live there. Right, that makes sense. Besides, if you used to work there, how come you don't know about those numerous parks, bars/clubs/restaurants, and non-officy areas withint FiDi?

nyc..i never said i worked there..i had clients there and was down there quite often, incl. 9/11..what crazy posts..my posts are informative, kind and amusing...unfortunately you don't agree so I suggest you hit the ignore button. Non-officy areas...huh?

julia, your posts are informative to the extent that you are telling all of us about your pathology. Your description of the area is completely inaccurate. Thanks, and be sure to take your meds!

Julia is hardly alone in thinking that FiDi is the most prime point for a terrorist attack, associated as it is with American capitalism. The hard-to-evacuate narrow streets and intense density of FiDi makes it even more potentially problematic for many people.

some areas of the FiDi are romantic, i love looking up at the wonderful masterpieces of fine architecture leaping up toward the flattering sky

I once said that I liked because she Julia was delightfully, unintentionally obtuse, but now she is just annoyingly dull.

As most know, I have lived in tribeca for many years so I have no vested interest in boosting FiDi but I think marknycz makes some good points here
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/4805-15-broad-st-starck-downtown
that echo the thrust of the NYT article.

I have visited friends at 15 Broad for a kid's birthday party and the area did seem remarkably kid friendly. The lack of traffic obviously helps as does the related upshot of the broad (pardon the pun) pedestrian plazas that surround this area.

Currently, this area is zoned for the much vaunted ps234 which is another reason why so many families moved down there although that will change once the Spruce Street school opens up in he Beekman tower. The K feeder school in the Tweed building is opening this fall so anyone moving here now will likely not have their children go to ps234 but that is going to be decided by lottery now (!) with zoned preference availability being offered at grade one next year due to parent outcry.

By most accounts, parents living in FiDi are looking forward to the new school and are hopeful (due to expected parent involvement to the extent that has hepoled ps234 greatly) that the new school will be as good.

If you are childless, young or old, then I agree that maybe FiDi has little appeal but the point of the NYT article is that families with children are discovering that it is a great place to raise a family.

divvie...you said i was once unintentionally obtuse and now i am just annoyingly dull...great line..if you feel the need to post unkind comments when someone doesn't agree with you than go ahead...i'm a great believer in turning the other cheek...

Anyone who has kids should take them to brunch at Ulysses on stone street, so they can run around and you can knock back a cold one and read the times.

This area is so historical.....it's a privilige to live here.

Jimstreeteasy.....they are building a W Hotel and Condominiums behind the Marriott.

prada...the area is historical as a business area but i appreciate your comment about privilage to live there.

As to someones comment about buildings being in trouble, some are not all.. I live in 15 Broad and its 100% sold, meaning the developer sold all of the units... anything for sale now is from the original buyer... As for 20 pine, 25 broad, thats another story.. Glad i dodged those bullets...

I don't see how vandeveen could write "Also, jimstreetwasy, that Marriott is in Battery Park City. Once again, why criticize the area if you don't know what you are talking about..." Vandeveen was wrong and btichy about it at the same time. Geez.

The area from the fulton and john streets and along wall street all the way over to the west side highway was 100% dead at night when i was there for a week in November. That is not my hype or spin, just what i observed. So...is the wonderful fidiambience somewhere else or is it invisible to the untrained eye?

We just moved down there from Chelsea (and I lived in WV and UWS before). We are the typical family from the NYT article (young kids, want more space and better amenities). My husband and I both work in midtown and we have nothing with Wall Street or finance. I love the fact that this neighborhood is quiet on evenings and weekends with hardly any traffic. I guess we're all different in that respect. 'Dead' is good for us! My son can run out the building without being run over by a car. No homeless to step over when I exit the building (which was a real issue and very unpleasant in our previous place). No demolition trucks waking us up every hour of the night. There are parks close by and playgrounds being built - so that situation should improve over the coming years. In our previous 'hood, I often felt closed in by buildings, too many people, too much traffic. Now we walk to the waterfront in less than 5 mins. Despite those canyon-like streets, it's easy to reach the open space which is hard to find in Manhattan. I find that refreshing. I'm still figuring out the 'groceries situation' which I think is not ideal (I go to WF on Warren or TJ in B'lyn and take the subway back which is just 1 stop). One would think that, with the low commercial rents, some smart person would open up a huge grocery store. They'll have lots of business. What ultimately sold us on FiDi is not the neighborhood (duh), but the availability of - yes - space and amenities, for roughly half of what we would pay near central park. There are some incredible deals to be had if you rent. Not sure if I would buy there now for reasons mentioned by others.

For those of you living there (like drdr) and providing your opinions, thank you. I'm not interested in buying right now (especially there) but the rents are pretty attractive in comparison to other spots. I'm also not really interested in the opinions of those who live elsewhere, which is why I asked so specifically -- I have lived here long enough to have my own uninformed judgments on various neighborhoods.

Can I ask where drdr lived before for comparison?

Got me, Malthus - I call it Chelsea North but it really is Penn Station South (track 32). Not a neighborhood, I know - though convenient to transportation and work. And we had a 2500 sq ft loft for very reasonable rent (though even there, the rents have now gone up as the neighborhood is 'gentrifying' - though still considered commercial hence the demolition trucks). Before that, we lived in a townhouse triplex on W95th (never underestimate the noise neighbors can make and the shoddy building quality of those townhouses) and a loft on W4th (lovely but too much nightlife and noise that comes with it). Since we've moved to FiDi we're sleeping more peacefully than ever. And no, not worried about Julia's terrorist attack warning (actually, I believe Penn station is a much more likely target than wall street).

I used to live on the UWS, and moved to "the District" in 2002.

A few notes:

- I think both the detractors and defenders are exaggerating a bit. The neighborhood is not exactly lively at night or on the weekends (with the exceptions of Stone Street and the area around the Seaport/Front Street), but it's not exactly desolate, either. Foot traffic is probably about the same as where I used to live between WEA and RSD in the 70s. There's very little vehicular traffic at times, but I fail to see how that could be a bad thing.

- Access to basic servies (grocery stores, dry cleaning, drug stores, etc.) is very good. I used to live a few minutes from Fairway and Citarella, and don't feel particularly shortchanged for the grocery shopping options within a similar walk. One big missing feature: there's not a single video store in the neighborhood. Netflix, Apple TV, and on-demand mostly make up for this.

- Although there are a fair number of restaurants, it's certainly not comparable to more traditional residential neighborhoods in terms of either variety, quality or quantity. In particular, there's a real lack of quality mid-range places, and all of the nice places are steakhouses. I find the nightlife in general to be fairly mediocre, although if you like Irish Pubs you'll be set. The upside of this is that screaming drunk people or loud music won't keep you up at night.

- Fortunately, the deficiencies listed above are more than made up for by the ease of getting around. TriBeCa is in walking distance, and essentially everywhere else in the City is easily reachable by subway. It's hard to overstate how convenient it is living near essentially every subway line (the only real exceptions are the F/V and the L). If you're not happy with what's on offer in the neighborhood, it's generally a very short trip elsewhere.

jordyn - which grocery stores do you go to?

jordyn - what part of the Meatpacking District did you move to?

Curious too about grocery stores ... thinking about renting in the neighorhood ...

jordyn - what part of the Theater District did you move to?

Wow, alanhart. That joke (demonstrating your inability to read prior posts in the thread for context) was almost funny the first time. Maybe you cracked yourself up so much you had to post it again?

I FreshDirect about half the time out of sheer laziness. I like Zeytuna the most, but it can be frustrating because there's a lot of "normal" stuff that they don't have (for example, the other day I wanted mayonnaise, but they only had fancy versions whereas I wanted Hellman's). Jubilee is a decent second alternative covering all the basics (plus it's open 24 hours), and there's a Gristede's on Maiden Lane. It's about the nicest Gristede's I've ever been to, but not particularly special in any other way.

the nicest whole foods in manhattan is a few blocks north of the WTC. and zeytuna is fantastic, my wife cooks most nights and loves shopping there b/c of the quality of foods and cleanliness of store

I have posted before about FIDI, so I thought I would jump in and add my two cents to the discussion. A little background: 10 yrs uptown (UWS), 4 yrs in Tribeca, 1 (and counting) in Fidi. I have been around the city so I "get" what all of the 'hoods have to offer.

Maybe it is because I have settled down, gotten older, and finally got the place of my dreams, but FIDI is my favorite . . . why?

1) Quiet. I mean really quiet. Like sleep with your windows open quiet. Detractors would say "why do you live in the city if you want quiet?" I say more sleep time = a better mood to enjoy the city.

2) Great family friendly vibe, without the crazy uptown competition. I haven't heard the word "Dalton" since I have been here. Parents have $ but are grounded. Kind of like a hipper UES combined with a more uptight Park Slope.

3) Enough restaraunts to keep you busy within the zone and plenty of "destination" spots in Trbeca a 10 minute walk away.

4) Safety. Crime is almost non-existant here. Maybe its the machine guns.

5) Park access. I will take Hudson River Park / BPD anyday over Central Park. Breezy in the summer, unbelievable views and great community programs. (where else do you get drum circles for kids every friday, free fishing supplies a few times during the summer and an array of great indie bands playing outdoors that you dont have to fight to see?)

6) Transportation. Its been said, but its true. Brooklyn 1 stop; every express train. Plus a Water Taxi Beach on Governors Island this Summer one 10 minute boat ride away.

7) Big apartments. Since many were office building build before central air, the light and heat requirements meant open floorplates with lots of windows and high ceilings. Outside of Soho/Tribeca, just try and find 11 ft ceilings in a doorman building with a pool.

8) Terrorist attacks: Yes, wall street has become such an icon of success lately that I am sure that it is a huge target -- especially in a neighborhood that is a "ghost town". Dumb comment.

There are a few minuses, which have been brought up. I'll give my take;

1) Grocery stores: Whole Foods is kind of a haul, but when I lived on the UWS, Fairway was even further.

2) Delis: This is a real sore spot. 24 hour bodegas are extremely rare and much missed. Not much to defend here -- is an issue.

3) Retail shopping -- for good or bad the neighborhood has not suffered the "malling" that has happened in most of NYC. Nice not to be overrun with Gaps, and the ilk, but not the easiest place to pick up an emergency pair of socks.

4) Binge Drinking -- If I was 25 I would hate it here. No Brother Jimmy's, Pour House, etc. It would be boring as hell.

That's my take. Basically FIDI is emerging into a nicely balanced, if not perfect, little community of 50,000 residents who fit somewhere between the old money uptown, the hipsters downtown and the granolas of Park Slope. I like it and I'm stayin.

"if you know anything about living in FiDi, you know comments such as "no supermarkets," "no parks," and "absolutely dead" are all coming from people who have not spent any time here."

I work there now. I have lived there. it is dead, dead, dead!

I am so sorry Julia. I take it all back.
Admiral is way more dense than you.

divvie...your cruelty to people will always come right back at you..

What are the buildings with large apartments? We took a quick look a couple of weekends ago at rentals at 99 John and 71 Broadway and the spaces we saw were small with awkward floorplans and not much natural light. My husband is intrigued with the idea of living in the Financial District and I am wondering if you have any suggestions for rental buildings with good space 2/3 bedroom with about 1400 sq ft and good light.

Sorry Julia - I mean it this time.

I don't erally think you are dense but Admiral really is.

The segue was too much for me to resist however.

waxlion, check out 15 Broad where there are a number of owners renting out their condos.
Different than renting from a rental company but it may be the only way to get the larger spaces.

waxlion - concur with divvie. we just moved to 15 broad and have a 3BR/2500 sq ft. I know there are several large (>1500 sq ft) apts with high ceilings available for rent in this building and it's the cookiecutter stuff i've seen on UWS/UES (even in condo/coop buildings)

it's NOT cookiecutter - of course...

drdr, do you have any idea who the management company of 15 Broad is? According to Streeteasy, it's Penmark, but the don't have it listed on their site. Am interested in renting a place there and while most offer no fee even with using a broker, I'd like to check if there are any other units available than the ones listed here.

nice post, markznyc

I used to live in Fidi, might move back. I lived there for four years, and can safely say that it is in fact dead a at night, has few restaurant choices comparatively, either for eat-in or delivery, a dearth of grocery stores, etc, etc. But it was very crime and homeless free. Something I have NOT seen mentioned, however, is that its easier in any other part of Manhattan, including Harlem, to hail a cab at odd hours compared to Fidi. It was quite maddening how hard it was to get a cab, whether I tried in BPC< on the WSH, on Broadway, wherever.

What do you mean by odd hours? Let's assume your talking to one of the young families they reference in the article. Is this a problem or are you saying you can't get a cab up to the Village at 1 am on a Saturday night?

Nypaloto - Cooper Square Realty 212-682-7373