Elan Park Slope. Any thoughts?

Conversion to rental within 12 months.

About a million units at 500 4th avenue ( http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/500-4-avenue-brooklyn ) hit the market last week as well. 4th avenue in brooklyn has got to have near the highest concentration of "luxury" units for sale in a completely undesirable location.

I have lived within a stones throw of the Wyckoff gardens housing project and I feel safer on bond street than I do 4th avenue at night.

If Forte can't sell any units how in the world will these move?

The prices dropped, so why don't they sell?

Sure, prices have dropped, but they're still too high. And, to put it mildly, I don't think you'll get many people willing to pay for a "luxury" apartment in Brooklyn just off 4th avenue. The doorman thing alone is just absolutely idiotic.

All of 4th Avenue will eventually be converted to affordable housing by Quinn, bloomberg, etc. No one is going to buy this junk, it's totally against the ethos of anyone who wants to relocate to park slope!

PS I'm serious about predicting the affordable housing thing. No one is going to buy this stuff.

Wow it's nice to see some sanity re: Fourth Avenue. It's just mind-boggling that this stuff ever got built in the first place.

Who would buy there???? I have never comprehended it. Fourth Avenue is noisy, stinky, polluted, unsafe and ugly.

Well Elan (255 1st St) is not not on 4th ave, it is on 1st St., which happens to be a good block.
Elan is zoned for P.S. 321 which is very good. And all the good features of Park Slope are a few blocks away.
Now that the asking prices are low ($660,000) for a 2 bedroom 1055 sq. ft are very good given the quality of construction and the building's features (I have been to Novo and Crest and their contruction and style don't come close to Elan. If enough potential buyers get together, the issue of getting a mortgage would no longer be an issue. This is the time to buy in Park Slope since the prices are so low.

interestedtoo,
You're right. It's not on 4th avenue. It's 10 feet away from 4th avenue
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=255 1st St brooklyn ny&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.231745,63.017578&ie=UTF8&ll=40.675154,-73.982813&spn=0.004239,0.007693&z=17

Look at google street view. This place is in a horrible location. To call anything on 4th avenue "park slope" is disingenuous at best. To spend $660,000 to live next door to McDonald's is INSANE.

Went to The Elan open house on SUnday 5/17. Was, by far, the worst job of "selling" a condo we have ever experienced. But then again, nothing can help this building. The style, design, configuration can all be summed up in one word - awkward. We were shown a 2 bedroom that has had the price dropped over 200k - I don't think another 200k would help. The only plus that this building has to offer is the aroma of a BigMAc and fries wafting up to your windows.

I just looked at the google maps street view for this location, and it's hilarious. If you enter the Elan address it takes you to the McDonalds drive through next door. If you click over it shows the NYFD responding to a call to the Elan construction sight. Not a good sign!

FYI, see pictures
http://www.flickr.com/photos/elif-portfolio/sets/72157605126804463/
http://www.elanparkslope.com/

Interestedtoo, thanks for the slide show. I can't stand those HVAC units in the windows for AC and heating.

It is convenient to that good car wash place across 4th ave.

I think the equivalent location for a new development in Manhattan is 29th Madison Park.

Just curious - why is it silly to have a doorman in brooklyn? (not snarky ... just wondering)

I looked at these about 1 month ago. Yes, they are close to 4th, but at least you are on the "right" side of 4th, in regards to proximity to true PS. It is a nice block. BTW, they are also building right next door, probably more condos.
The developer was VERY willing to negotiate on everything, price, parking, etc. This should seem like a no doye in this market, but there are other developments (ahem, 500 4th) that are quite inflexible. Elan dev. offered to pay cc for one year.
The finishes were nice, not spectacular, and some of the craftmanship left something to be desired. In this market cut corners are unfortunately kind of expected, just to get the work done. Layouts OK, at least the building isn't full of 3 BRs under 1200 sq. ft...I just find that insulting.
I wouldn't put too much weight on the 321 thing. Yes, it is great to be in school district 15, but 321 in particular is already over-crowded, only to become more so with all the 4th ave. development. I will probably be staying in d. 15, and here's hoping both my kids place into the gifted & talented program!
Living next door to Mickey D's? NOT loving it.
Unfortunately, there is a dearth of new condos in true PS, since it is a Brownstone neighborhood. The condo conversions in the true hood are MUCH more expensive per sq. ft. than the Elan. Like a few to several hundred dollars more. Some are walk-up on top of that. Not happening with young kiddies.
I think you can get a unit here for a good price and it isn't in the worst possible location. Sucks to be so far from the park, though. Also, don't know where they're putting that doorman...lobby is tiny.

csmack,
Good points!
The same could be said about the other condos nearby on 4th ave, but they are on 4th ave, and most of them on the wrong side, and there is no way their craftmanship is better than Elan, for example their roof is guaranteed for 25 years by a brand name mfg while the others are for 10 years. And many of the other condos already need major repairs and they are only two or three years old, forcing the condo owners to pay more in CCs.
Yes, the Mickey D's may appear to be an issue, but many top condo buildings in Manhattan that are next door to Mickey D's have no issue getting and keeping condo owners to pay alot, perhaps there is no issue about Mickey D's!

This building isn't in Park Slope, it's in Gowanus.

Slope11217: "(3) A doorman in a Brooklyn apartment is silly. "

Why?

StreetEasy doesnt show any apartments in contract. Did it already go rental? Has anyone moved in yet? What's the deal with this building?

Sincerely,

Ronald McDonald

FYI...
Streeteasy reported to me that they have a problem about the units in contract listed at CORCORAN, there are about 5 now.
See any map at NY Times, Trulia, NYC school district map, etc.; they clearly show it is in Prime Park Slope.
http://maps.nycboe.net/index.asp?street=1ST%20ST&addBoro=3&hsenum=255&action=addGeo
And the building has a CoO.

First sale at 5B happened; at least 2 other apts. are now occupied since lights are on at night. I live around the corner on 2nd St. and see the place from my windows. Stay away as you will be living in a primarily rental building. The developers have a $14 million loan outstanding and with few sales this building could clearly go into foreclosure. Simply too risky!

i live in the building and am a buyer not renter. there are 4 apts sold already and 3 in contract that i am fully aware of (so 7 total sold). Could be more. Of the 5 apts occupied now, only one is rented. So far, no complaints. The sponsor/developer have been extremely responsive to everything. The appliances, finishes, etc. are exactly what they sold and no corners were cut. With 2 small children, a brownstone although would have been lovely (and we did look!), is just not convenient (maybe when kids are older or for those with no kids). With the parking, storage, elevator and zoning for ps 321 - this works for us!

PPNN: good luck but given the market you are more than likely to be living in a building primarily occupied by renters. The sponsor is actively trying to rent many units at this time. Even if all seven units close you will still have under 25% owner occupancy a disastrous situation that most lenders will not tolerate. The tale will be told by the bank holding the underlying mortgage since they call the shots as to what the developer can and can not do.

27% price cut at Elan yesterday.

Lipstick on a pig. I would think 50% would have been more realistic.

50% off still wouldn't be enough off for me.

Still only one sale per ACRIS and it appears at least 8 units are now being rented based on lights on in the evening. Lender has over $14 million outstanding construction loan so how long will it wait before starting foreclosure? When the fire sale occurs vultures will step in to purchase and rent out at a nice profit.

Unit 5C sold for 775k on 9/10/09, deed recorded 9/22/09. Bank of Smithtown L.I. financed mortgage again just like apt. 5B. So now we have 2 owners out of 32 units!

we just looked at this today. The 1400sq ft apartments look nice. Any other insights?

We also looked at the 2 bedrooms. Some layouts are better than others, but the finishes are decent. The prices are still kind of high, but I have heard that the developers are willing to negotiate and the agent kept asking us to make an offer. Just worried about the building not moving in terms of sales, and that it may turn into a rental or worse, bank owned.......

I'm interested. Can't beat the price. The finishes are just as nice as 500 4th, with the exception of the air conditioners, and the location is better. I don't give a damn about living next to McDonald's--it keeps the snobs away.

gav, han, brooklynerdoc, have any of you presented an offer or talked to a lender about presenting an offer? My impression is that there's people who want to buy at Elan, but that they cannot get financing due to (way!) less than 50% sold and no FHA approval. Because of that the building seems to be dying a slow death, regardless of many things going for it. The few closings have been for 10-15% less than ask, and that with parking spots and storage thrown in, so I think prices are good. At least reasonable. I personally liked the 3 bedrooms C line apts. a lot, and think that for family-sized apartments the fact that it's zoned for PS321 is a huge, huge plus. Then again, at this pace of sales, chances are it'll get foreclosed, unless something changes dramatically.

BTW, I hadn't realized the timing of these comments! I see that aptsandlofts just raised the prices @ Elan by 5-10% all across the board. Not the most orthodox move for a building which has had that kind of trouble selling, so I would imagine they're getting nutty and desperate. Dunno.

We made an offer in this building and simultaneously tried to line up financing. The developer is flexible, but not as much as you would think given the current state of sales. I think if you're all cash (or mostly cash) there is more room to negotiate.

Most lenders that we talked to gave the building a preliminary "no". Our main banker actually brought up an excellent point which is that the developer has never done a building of this size. It's really, really difficult to even find out who the developer is (you basically have to find the offering plan) which is a huge red flag.

I live around the corner on 2nd St. and see the lights on at night. A dozen or more apts. are rented. Public records show only 5 units sold, about 15% of the building. Only banks at Smithtown L.I. and in Chinatown have made loans. All major banks can not lend by FNMA regulations at this location. Unless you have all cash (most don't) stay away from this property. You will be living in a rental building where few have any long term interest, not desirable for the biggest investment in your life. As the saying goes: "Buyer Beware".
Marion (a retired r.e. professional)

Marion,

shouldn't the warning would be "stay away of this property regardless"? Why do you say "unless you have cash"? I mean, do you think there's any level of discount (such as you would get being an all-cash buyer) that would make it worthwhile to buy at Elan? Or is it because the few banks that are lending at Elan are probably doing it at higher rates to cover for risk, so that even if the nominal price is, say, 600 psf you're actually paying a 10% premium on top of that by having a higher rate? Just wondering...

Folks who can pay all cash clearly have the greatest leverage for the steepest discounts. The fifth sale at the Elan occurred on Jan. 28, 2010 in an all cash transaction for $540k (divided by 965 s.f. = a price of $559/s.f. - very steep indeed.) Such purchasers may be looking to rent the unit although the return on investment in such an instance probably is not that great. These folks may also be looking for long term appreciation and in some cases may be foreign investors not necessarily that savy about the local market. My take again, for typical buyers looking to be owner occupant homeowners, is to stay away because: (i) there are too many renters who have no long term interest, (ii) possibility of foreclosure and lenders need to dump units at fire sale prices (which then bring down comparable pricing in the building) (iii) the likely difficulty in selling the apartment in the future, (iv) a risk of reduced maintenance, etc.
Marion (commented earlier in the string as "MarionG")

Marion,

The other 3 sales included parking spaces and storage, and I think they ended being lower on a ppsf basis than the one you're mentioning. The sale you're mentioning looks lower because it was at a higher discount from the listed price, but that means nothing. If you assume that parking and storage combined are worth 50K, you'll see that the three other apartments sold so far (per SE) 5B, 2B and 4C sold for between 523 and 528 psf. Then again, all the reasons you mention that advise to be cautious are very true.

We have an accepted offer and should be going to contract within a week. The sales guy from aptsandlofts tells me that ours will be the 16th unit in contract, meaning that as of later this week the building will be 50% sold.

brooklynerdoc: If you don't mind sharing, what ppsf was accepted or range? thanks.

Mars, let's put it this way--they were more flexible on amenities (parking, storage) and terms than they were on price. There's a little wiggle room, but these prices have already been chopped.

brooklynerdoc, congrats on your purchase!

Now, there's a few points that I think it would be useful if you could clarify for all of us who're keeping an eye on this building.
1) I guess that when you mention that there isn't a lot of wiggle room in price you're referring to the prices that were current 2 weeks ago, and not to the new 10% higher asking prices.
2) Even if that's the case it would be surprising if they don't negotiate, since all 5 of the previous closed sales went for between 20% to 7% below ask, on top of the free amenities. And that includes a sale that closed 4 weeks ago.
3) SE doesn't list any new apartments under contract (the only one has been "in contract" forever), so unless SE is wrong or outdated (which is perfectly possible) there's no indication of an additional 11 apts under contract. Meanwhile, there would have to be some reason for a building that has taken 1 year to close 5 sales to suddenly get 11 more in a month. Did they say something? FHA approval? You have to be aware that Elan is a building where 50% of contracts fall through.

Trompiloco:
1) I assume you're talking about the 3 bedroom units; the others weren't increased, at least not that I can see. We got a two bedroom.
2) They did negotiate on the price, but not much. Remember some of those previous deals were all cash.
3) I don't think SE's information reflects any of the contracts that have been signed since aptsandlofts took over. Have you talked with Steven Laurelli from aptsandlofts?

If you (or anyone else considering buying in this building) would like more information, feel free to e-mail me at texasholden at verizon dot net. Obviously, I think the place is a good buy, and I'm happy to share more information via e-mail.

Hi brooklynerdoc, I'll contact you. Thanks.

Brooklynerdoc or any other owners/renters:

1) The in-wall heating/AC units looked 'unique'. Did you get a chance to operate them? Are they effective / very noisy?

2) Is gas or water included in the common charges?

Thank you

Jrbel, I have gone to the openhouse at elan and have inquired about the common charges. The Ptac units are run by both gas and electric. And the stove is runned by gas.
All utilities (gas, electric, including water)are the owner's responsibility. So the common charges is quite high, considering that this building has no gym or other amenities. (It does have a door man though, from what I heard).

FHA approved as of today....

Han, as you mention, there's a doorman, and don't forget the roof deck.

Elan has electric heat, units not fed by gas. Check utility cost estimate in the offering plan. I am now paying an average of 30 cents per kilowatt hour with taxes etc. figured in the bill. Your annual electric bill will be through the roof! I live around the corner and thankfully have baseboard hot water heat fed from a central boiler where heat is part of our common charges. Good luck to all.
Marion

Hello,
Elan has gas heat, electric air. The same wall units do both. Each unit has its own hot water heater, water and gas are included in the common charges, which are quite low for a building with 2 elevators, a daytime doorman, a nice wrap around roof deck and basement storage. The doorman doesn't work there yet. It was tough to get financing, but not impossible, and the building owners were willing to work and make concessions to make the sale (though they were not as flexible as you might think when I got involved with them this winter). The current owners are very hands-on. They come right to the door to address problems. They have an office on the first floor and appear to be there for the long haul, so I'm not worried about the bank taking over or the whole building going rental. If anyone has any questions I'll try to give good answers.

Hi stickperson - would you be willing to talk over email? Basically, we're trying to find out how many units there are actually in contract and whether the building is going to continue renting the units that are currently rented. Are you living there now? How did you ultimately end up getting financing?

Also, do you think the building is accepting offers consistent with recent comps? Are they paying closing costs/transfer taxes?

Thanks!

Hey SENewbie, I can chip in with first-experience. Sorry it took me a while to comment. Right now they're not very willing to negotiate, at least if you want to use the recent arms-length closed sales as the yardstick for negotiation; which, IMHO is the only thing that would make sense. They claim that the FHA approval has been a complete game changer for Elan and that it points to something like a new beginning (cue in violins and chirping birds). On the other hand, 3 months ago, when I went in to an OH there for the first time, they were telling me they only had a few units left, so they're not exactly truth's best friends. I dunno what to tell you. The Corcoran database only showed 4 sold and 4 in contract as of Friday. SE shows 5 sold and 1 frozen in contract since Aug. '09. They claim to have many more in contract, and now that they're FHA-approved, close to ask. Time will tell, I guess.

Here are 6 sales at the building per ACRIS:
5B 6/26/09; 5C 9/10/09; 7A 12/23/09;
2B 1/11/10; 4C 1/27/10 and 6C 3/17/10
Since I live around the corner I keep tabs
on comps. Two recent builder sales in my
condo were for $720 and $800/s.f. Fortunately
we are now 17 sold, 4 rented by the builder.
Marion

So 5C is the one that's strangely enough not showing up on SE. How much did it go for?

5c Sold for $775k or $556/s.f

Can anyone who is living in the building give me a sense of what their monthly utility costs are, all in? Are they really high relative to similarly-sized condos? Thanks.

Folks: Apt. 4B is the seventh sale bringing building sales to just over 20%. This 3 B.R. apt. sold for
$906,243 (includes transfer taxes)by deed recorded June 24th. It was an all cash deal, no mortgage recorded.

Folks:
I have to correct my earlier comment. Apt. 4B was the 8th sale. Apt. 4A was an earlier seventh sale. Apt. 4A is a 2 B.R. apt. which sold for $720,000 with about 10% down. Sovereign bank provided a mortgage of $639,062. I expect it will be assigned to FHA given the low down payment. Instruments were recorded June 10th.

hi all. Wondering if anyone currently living in the building hears noise from the McD drive through or smells anything from the restaurant or dumpster, particularly the units facing that way. Thanks!

Has anyone seen 401 8th Ave #53 in Park Slope? Listing is here: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/534365-coop-401-8th-avenue-park-slope-brooklyn

Just wanted some thoughts.

Six recorded sales per ACRIS in July and August bring total sold to 14, now over 40% of the building.

I've recently heard that this section of Park Slope will be rezoned from PS 321 to PS 133. Don't want judge 133 but the scores are bad compared to 321. Anyone have an idea what this will do to the value of 3 bedroom units?