William Beaver House- ???!!!

midtowngal, that has to be the next logical step, and they should take that step rather swiftly in my opinion. I think some of the downtown luxury bldgs. have made a very smart move by switching their foci and going rental before getting further into trouble.

The Beaver people much realize that they will NEVER be able to sell that many units in this climate at that price point. They ain't stoooopid--I hope...

So what's interesting about the Beaver House right now is that from what we understand, the sponsor is STILL not renting out units. Everything on the rental market in that building (we can name 27 units and we haven't even looked through all of the ads) are units owned by investors who actually bought from the sponsor.

We can only speculate that the sponsor isn't renting out their units (yet) because doing so would completely flood the market and piss off those investors that actually closed (and ones that are probably trying to back out of contracts now).

-DT

http://downtowny.blogspot.com/2009/05/skinny-on-all-of-those-rentals-at-beave.html

or are barred from doing so by their construction loan, or, or, or......

(when the shit hits the fan, I think the LAST thing the Sponsor is worried about is pissing off investors who closed already, unless there are a bunch in contract which have not closed yet - yes i saw "(and ones that are probably trying to back out of contracts now).")

any action at the beave this weekend

Renting would completely destroy the luxury product. So all those high prices would no longer be sustainable. Probably a greater loss to rent it out, and also given that the rental market isn't hot and Wm. Beaver is right near several other developments.

maleprop - what else do you think the Beaver will do? At some point, the sponsor isn't going to want to (or be able to) hang on to those unsold units anymore...

http://downtowny.blogspot.com

what do we think about this???

http://curbed.com/archives/2009/05/27/switching_teams_lics_arris_lofts_fidis_beaver_house.php

http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/elliman-and-prodigy-in-corcoran-sunshine-and-core-out-arris-lofts-william-beaver-house

There's a lot of in and out at the beaver............ (sorry, I can't help myself. I was Roger Rabbit in a former life)

I just rented a 1bedroom unit at the WHB house and I am moving in next Monday June 1, 2009! I was able to negotiate a great rate for a 1 year lease. I'll post more comments about the ammenities once I have settled down

Rmoody did you rent from Andre or a unit owner??

RMoody - what sort of a discount did you get, if you don't mind us asking? We thought that those 1BRs priced in the $3300 range were unbelievably expensive for the area, so we'd love to know what the actual going rate is.

http://downtowny.blogspot.com/2009/05/skinny-on-all-of-those-rentals-at-beave.html

-DT

i am sure it will be a fun rental, buying is another story!!!!
also curious to the type of people living there as we have heard so much!

what a crock. this location is beyond horrendous. 1br should be 600k not 1.3 mil. No cabs, messy collection of named streets.

Interestingly, it is one of the few places in Manhattan that you can get a high floor great view 1 bedroom. Most buildings reserve the upper floors and great views for the bigger apartment buyers.

Wow, I didn't think it was possible for another building to be collectively as delusional as 20 Pine.

Apparently, I've met my match.

tell us more uomoprimo!! pppllleeeaaasssseeee

Hysterically high prices for spaces that are laid out somewhat well, but the 1 bedrooms are just studios they split with a wall. Amenities are not usable just like 20 Pine, but unlike 20 Pine, they aren't starting to price to meet the market, and what comes off as schizophrenic at 20 Pine comes off as positively psychotically delusional at Beaver House. Are they going to be a hotel, owned, rented? No one seems to know.

The building is bizarrely empty. No one is there. At least at 20 Pine, there seemed to be some human activity.

Looked at a couple of places, views in some of the units are nice, better than 20 Pine, but doesn't add nearly enough value. My personal taste leans more toward the 20 Pine finishes, the bathroom at Beaver is nice but takes up nearly a third of the apartment in some of the units. Does anyone really spend that much time in the bathroom? Apparently, in the Financial District they do. Kitchen situation is almost exactly the same as 20 Pine, but real separate W/D (though very small).

The buildings seem to be catering to exactly the same audience, but you get to choose between which style you like more. You want a darker aesthetic, go to Pine, a lighter/white aesthetic go to Beaver. Personally, I think the address is not as well located, but it is just a few blocks.

After seeing a lot of real estate over the past few weeks in FiDi, I really don't know what conclusion to come to as far as this area is concerned. While it does seem to be coming to earth on one block, the next building over will have a completely knackered idea of what is going on. There are literally thousands upon thousands of units available in a few square blocks, and that's not including the units that haven't actually been put on the market, or Gehry's brand new tower which has just announced it will be completed (all 76 stories of it) by next summer at One Beekman. Who are the tenants that are going to live there and where are they? The jobs are not here, and they aren't coming. I just don't get the very poor thinking that is going on behind all of this, but guess it is endemic of what the economy has been experiencing.

At least as far as this building is concerned, units are not priced to move, and unless you desperately want the Starck aesthetic, I'd hold off for a couple of months. They've got to decide what kind of building they are going to be, and then they need to drop their prices by about 25-30% before they will have any more than a few units move.

my gut is you can get a one bed for 750-800k. when i looked they told me to ignore the price quoted as they were very open to on offer. personally, i would not live there if they paid me 800k (ok maybe for a year) but that is just my opinion.
maybe i am wrong but it just seems like DB central

Not many has raised this issue, but the location is a bit problematic for my taste. FiDi is great, but the intersection between William and Beaver is at a sketchier part of FiDi...not in terms of crime, safety, etc., of course, but in terms of general convenience and "climate."

It's sort of in an "in-between," vacuum-like pocket within several good parts--e.g., South Street Seaport, Fulton Area, Liberty Park, WTC, Stone Street, water front areas, etc. Sure, it's not far from anything, but I somehow don't feel like it belongs in any area...

Also, those yellow patches on the exterior are definitely criminal...

NYC- i agree a zillion percent... there is something very creepy about that corner. Maybe the building is blocking the light but it is a very creepy, dark corner.
I still think those yellow patches are some time of mistake.
WHO, WHO, WHO would buy there??? If there is anyone out there that has can you tell us why...

You know, RE2009, the weird thing is that, despite the "dark, dingy and creepy" impression we both share about that intersection, the area actually gets a lot of sun. The streets are wide enough and the surrounding bldgs. aren't that tall.

So, why does it feel that way??? Here is my conclusion: WBH is too ugly and imposing, especially w/ its current deserted and abandoned appearance on the 1st floor. It doesn't fit into the architecture surrounding it, and its exterior is just too dark and intrusive. Once the construction is complete, maybe the impression will change.... Let's hope so.

I agree nyc212 - I think it's the Beaver House itself that feels deserted - any building like that anywhere in FiDi will feel "creepy". The Beave still reminds us of the Titanic - all of those great features, lights on etc., but completely deserted.

As for the area, I think the homeless shelter on Beaver right down the street makes that particular block feel a little less "safe", although I believe that the shelter is still set to close in July.

http://downtowny.blogspot.com/2009/05/skinny-on-all-of-those-rentals-at-beave.html

Just quuickly - am moving in to the Beaver in a couple of weeks. Am renting. Will keep on updating as to the pleasures and annoyances.

nypaloto- enjoy, and yes please keep us updated
while you are renting would also be interested on your thoughts about who is buying
btw- are the amenities completed?
again, enjoy!

Will try to enjoy! Lower floor amenities are all done, including media and yoga room. Rooftop will be done by July 4. Am confident they'll finish it by that date, as they'll have a 4th of July celebration for all residents.

Will keep an eye (or both eyes) open for owners/buyers.

as a renter it will be great!!!!
you should invite us all to the rooftop party!!!
:-)

Hi everyone, going to be looking at a 1br at the beaver this weekend (rental), anyone actually live there yet? How negotiable are they? Is the squash court open? though it sounds like I could be playing on my own :)

Read through the comments, you'll see that all amenities (including squash court) are up and running. Roof will open on July 4. Obviously, it's rather empty, but there are folks living there (me including in a few days!). But I see that as an advantage (besides the risks of living in a financially struggling building). Am very happy with the services so far (welcome, communications, resident website, etc.).

I guess the negotiability depends on the owner. I think I got a good, but not outstanding deal. Got it 15% below initial asking.

Thanks Nypaloto, sounds promising, it would be good to get a 1br for under $3000. Has anyone heard if 2 year leases are on offer? I guess it depends on the owner.

just curious nypaloto what made you select the beave??

Debugoz - I'm paying slightly over $42 per square foot for 2 BR (albeit on a lower floor), if you'd like to use this as benchmark. I've also signed a 2-year lease.

Bubbles - Well, after having decided to leave the beloved West Village and zooming in on FiDi (which I'm sure we'll like a lot as well), it came down to 15 Broad, 20 Pine, and 15 William. While we like all of the designs, the Beaver best matches our current Mid-Century-Scandinavian-Minimalism kind of style. We've also preferred the amenities at William, mainly the above-ground gym and the great rooftop. The kitchen is slightly more practical than at Pine (plus there's a separate washer and dryer). And of course, we found the apartment that was right re size and budget.

Obviously, as renter, the financial woes of the buildings played a secondary role. We might consider buying in 2010, and that'll change our perspective.

Sounds like you were looking for something very similar to myself, hopefully the beaver is as good as it sounds. Would love to lock in a sub $3000 rent for 2 years in a luxury building like that.

thanks again, hope the move goes well.

thanks!!! i know you will keep us posted on life at the beave!!!
and good luck with the move, i'm sure it will all go well

debugoz - we definitely saw 1BRs under 3k there (not much under though - like $2995). There are several different entities renting units there, including the sponsor's agents, which rent apartments on behalf of owners. They all seem to be asking the same base prices - negotiability dependent on time on market/desperation etc. So many rental units in FiDi now that I would be surprised if owners were not highly negotiable.

http://downtowny.blogspot.com

Yeah I've been looking at lots of buildings in the FiDi, the new tower at 2 Gold has nice apartments, but the buildings reputation proceeds it. Everyone seems willing to negotiate, so just a matter of stretching the dollars as far as they will go, not often you come across a chance to negotiate nyc rents :)

Anybody notice that as of March 12 the long list of apartments in contract at William Beaver House is gone? Does that mean that the sponsor is keeping the deposits of those who wouldn't close and has put them back on the market? Anybody know anything?

besides Craigslist, what other source can I use to find rentals units at 15 William? Anyone has had any experience with any specific brokers/sources?

besides the exterior, did any of you tour the inside of the building-apartments and amenities recently? I did, and i can tell you it is high on my list, and you certainly don't notice the exterior from the inside of your apt..... would love to hear from people living (who rent/or own) in this building and what you think about your apt, amenities, and neighborhood.

their prices are still kind of high in my opinion especially for that area. they will not budge from the $1200 per square foot range even though comps in that area are $1000 and under. it's a shame, i really was interested in buying there but they do not seem anxious to sell or that flexible in price. it was kind of a bait and switch, they said not to pay attention to asking prices and after seeing several apts on high floors, when i told them my price range, they said the only apt available @$1000 psf is on a low floor. i know they are into the foreign market so, good luck with that, especially what is now going on with greece and all of europe for that matter.

http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/developer-tamir-sapir-faces-130m-lawsuit-from-blackstone-group-fund-over-william-beaver-house-loan

Last week-end I was in the area and stopped by William Beaver, Setai, 20 Pine, 55 Wall Street and a couple of other buildings (do not recall the address off-hand). I must say that unless a person works in the area, there is no reason to live there. Subway stops, depending on the builsing, can be quite far. Grocery stores, gyms, pharmacies, etc. are also scarce. The area does have a personality, but no charm. Bars/restaurants seem either dives or really expensive, with almost nothing in between. Oh, and good luck getting a cab.

It is always easier to advise than to execute, but condo owners downtown should cut prices to fill the vacancies. There is a lot of supply down there and despite all the talk of the downtown making a comeback, frankly I do not see it happening. If they are in trouble with lenders, they need every apt to generate income, and to do that price cuts seem the only realistic way.

regarding the article aboutready posted, what does this mean as far as purchasing in this bldg? what are the options for Sapir at this point? it seems to me that he doesn't want to have the property foreclosed on, but perhaps his plan of waiting for the market to come back, especially now with Greece's problems, perhaps he will have to lower his prices substantially to start getting some money!
i've heard there a a lot of units in contract and that the beaver is been delaying closings or just not being timely in getting to closings.

ukrguy : There are various reasons to like/dislike the Financial District, but you don't seem to have done your research. In particular, complaining about subway access seems particularly off-base as there's a greater density of subway lines/stops than just about anywhere else in the city--after all, this is where a lot of the subway system was designed to take people to.

There's a cluster of grocery stores around William and John, and a ton of pharmacies, although I suppose you do have to know which ones are open on the weekends. I do agree that the bar/restaurant scene is not great, although it's (slowly) getting better.

my friend lives across from WBH. We were on his roofdeck sat night and counted how many lit apartments there were at WBH. We got 6 and most were on the lower floors. The top half of the bldg looks totally empty.

I can't decide on what hood I want to move to. Originally I was going to do FIDI as my best friend is down there. And there is a lot of new and abundant stock down there. On the downside, the trains on the wkends are all messed up and will be so until they open the new train station.

The trains are indeed messed up on the weekends (the last month or so has been particularly bad--I'm not sure if there's a plan published anywhere that details the expected level of ongoing pain), but the good thing about the FiDi is there are abundant other train options to get you where you're going. If you only live near a single line and it's messed up, you're in much worse shape.

You're spot on jordyn. Posters who make comments about poor subway access and lack of services are completely out of touch. Where else in the city (take a look at a subway map) do you have such close access to the red, blue, yellow, green, brown lines? Yes, there has been construction disruption to the lines. But if one line is affected we have several other options.

Grocery stores aren't a problem either - facts just aren't supporting the criticism.

The yellow tiles of the WBH are strange from street-level. But when you get up close and see them from the roof deck, they're really cool. I looked at WBH but didn't buy. Instead bought somewhere else in the hood.

Defending those yellow tiles is really going too far. WBH has got to be one of the ugliest buildings I've ever seen. :-)

"red, blue, yellow, green, brown lines" ... yes, they're only 225 miles from FiDi. In Boston.

i think i mentioned this once before regarding the yellow tiles, if you live "IN" the building your not looking "AT" your bldg -LOL when i was in the setai and 75 wall and looked out and saw the beaver, i thought what an ugly bldg. when i was in the beaver looking out the windows i thought "what great views" look at all the pretty bldgs!

I want to live at WBH so I can change my name to Anastasia Beaver House

I must concur w/ Jim 123. I really don't care for this bldg., but I must respond to ukrguy's comment about the lack of access to subway, grocery stores, pharmacies and gyms in FiDi. That's a common misperception (along with FiDi being empty at night and over weekends). The Wall Street train station is RIGHT THERE. It's a major stop (with Fulton one stop away, too), and I don't know too many areas with better access options.

Search for Duane Reade locations in the area. There is one on practically every other block (including one right by WBH) around there. Also, there are so many gyms in that immediate neighborhood--way more so than most other Manhattan neighborhoods. In Midtown, I have to walk 2 avenues and 5 streets to get to a gym--but there are multiple gyms on each block around Wall Street.

As for supermarkets, I think WBH is a couple of blocks from the Gristedes and maybe an additional block from Zeytuna--probably better than average for Manhattan. Again, try finding a supermarket in Midtown or the Village!

Finally, just to make sure, before complaining that there aren't any restaurants near WBH, be sure to check out Stone Street.

kstiles, too funny!

alanhart, you have no idea what you're talking about.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=15%20william%20street%20new%20york%20ny&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

it's so sad when you have to explain. jim, the train lines in NYC are not referred to by color.

very sad to have to explain....

Yes, very sad to have to explain.

If you can't criticize the facts, just be smug on an irrelevant technicality.

Hi everyone,
Sorry for not commenting before, but the real facts are that Sapir owes a lot of money both to Blackstone (mezz loan) and iStar (Senior loan). Due to those debts they can't close any sales in the last 7 months! They can't even get contracts out. Basically, the brokerage there which is Prodigy lies about the situation and percentage sold and they keep on putting the open house signs, which is BS to bait clients to come and then maybe catch them and sell them in other buildings in the neighborhood. Everything about the building and brokers working there is shady!! be ware of them and their bait ads for sale or rental in the building... I responded to an ad and this chic tried to convince me to see other buildings with her after I realized they don't really have anything available there!!! But I guess there will always be suckers, so they'll keep on putting those baits until the state department will go after them and their licenses! Too bad for the building because it is a gorgeous building and amenities. At this point Sapir has to sell buildings to pay his debts or the WBH will go to foreclosure.

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/05/25/lender_seeks_foreclosure_at_37_sold_william_beaver_house.php

another one bites the dust. there have been some very strange transactions occurring over the past few months here. this case could get interesting.

The building is in serious trouble and foreclosure is looming. No one buys there. It makes 20 Pine look positively successful by comparison.

what about if you rent? how would this affect any current or soon-to-be renters?

bump. anyone know if the foreclosure will affect renters?

If you're a family, this building is ideal. It was designed to be an integrated community and the pimped out amenities are unrivaled by any other residential building in Manhattan. It's specially great for kids and families.