Schaefer Landing

Sad, very sad.

Apartment is probably worth half what the seller bought it for -- this is problem with short sales -- people think b/c they are getting a property at 20% less than mortgage, they are getting a "steal." Running the numbers, I don't see how these Williamsburg properties don't get cut in half or maybe even 2/3rds of what they sold for before.

It's happened before people ...

I have not seen this listing on CL, Schaefer Landing is not close to the subway but is close to the B61 bus stop. Does the train station shuttle van operate @ SL? SL is totally overpriced. How many tenants reside in SL courtesy of the affordable housing lottery? How many hasidism live in SL?

Now is the time to buy @ Schaefer Landing.

Buy now or be priced in forever @ Schaefer Landing.

Buy now or be priced out forever @ Schaefer Landing.

Go to Schaefer Landing sales oops rent office and don't catch that falling knife they are selling oops renting.

More fun stuff I found in the archives:

"At the Normandie Court at 225 East 95th Street, rents were $1,395 for a one-bedroom in 1992 and $1,465 in 1993, up 4.95 percent. For a two-bedroom, they were $1,840 in 1992 and $1,935 in 1993."

Funny, 2 beds at the Normandie go for $3395 right now (per a CL ad). Why, that's a 3.6% increase since 1992!

BUT MOM, MANHATTAN REAL ESTATE IS NOT LIKE THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.

oh, but son, it is ...

I suspect that Schaefer Landing may get offers but I'm thinking 50% of last price? Who knows. Kind of remote location, right?

jmkeenan, somehow I'm not following your last post. I'm dense today, granted...

actually i like 50% of the 1.2 million price is still too much, but that's just me. surely others would think that was a fine price(?).

The apartments have KILLER views and nice, spacious layouts but it is in no mans land there. Are hasidim really living in Shaefer Landing?

11201 - I bet they have amazing views. Still in this financial climate, with MTA projected cuts, no other transportation besides that bus, how many units sold, financial stability of building... limited amenities (I heard the one store that was supposed to open to service the folks who live there, has decided not to bother to even open)... hard to imagine that even prices at 800K are even worthwhile.

This I believe was the building that started the speculative wave in the burg. I have to agree tandare. There was a Times Sunday RE piece about a retired teacher who bought and felt trapped when the ferry cut service.

mutum:you,re not hard to figure out.you spit out platitudes ,and pronounce them as gospel-and are convinced of your acuity ,knowledge and insight .best guess,youve not achieved financial success ,or even ever strived for it.

Mutombo, the Hasidm at Schaefer Landing are welfare recipients who occupy low-income set-aside units. They have their own building over there. It's a low rise without river views, but still not bad, close to the main strip of Hasidic Williamsburg south of Broadway. It's hard to make enough money to support 6 kids when your wife doesn't work and you don't interact with gentiles.

"At least one third of the Hasidic families in Williamsburg receive public assistance, and U.S. Census figures suggest that as many as 50 percent lives below the poverty line."
http://humaniststudies.org/enews/?id=258&article=0

Just a note about transportation here - Schaefer Landing is a fairly short walk to the JMZ. It's not the best line, but if you work in the Wall St area, it's perfect. That said, I'm not sure why anyone would pay such high prices to live in south Williamsburg. It's a world apart from the north and southsides.

most of the apartments in Shaefer's landing are still owned by the developer who is filthy rich and has already made his investment back on this and other properties. He and his brother have several of the penthouses/premium units in these buildings for personal uses. I have hung out with them there. They are probably just selling off a few units to buy some personal indulgences.

pet:you lie or you dont know|as of a year ago ,sl south was sold out.

20B is currently being rented for $4,000/month. Same owner has 2 or 3 more properties in similar straits.

the penthouse in that building is rented out as an underground club for local party promoters ("personal uses"). I wondered why the building didn't shut down the parties in there and why the cops never came (weed smoking, underage drinking, fights, drunks in the hallway), now I understand. Not that I think underground parties are a bad thing, mind you.

tandare --

My point on comparing Normandie rental prices from 1992/1993 and today was to rebut the notion that somehow real estate will appreciate at significantly more than 3 (or even 6) percent per annum.

* The Normandie is opened by a professional real estate firm. It's a standard, mid level rental building on the upper east side that for the last 20 years has catered to NYC new arrivals.
* Rents in the Normandie have grown by 3.7 annually. This is within what any research -- Case-Schiller, Fidelity, etc. predicts.
* The Normandie is in manhattan (where no more real estate can be built :). And it's in the "safe from depreciation" area known as the UES.

So, can someone explain to me how a professionally run, rental building appreciates 3.7% per year (and i'm not including renovation/maintence costs) and then explain how a condo on the UES would appreciate by 10% or 20% or 50% or 100% or 200% in the same time period. Therefore, those UES condos will return to reality, so who's going to pay to live in Schaefer's Landing.

so that's what i was getting at to support our contention that Wburg properties should be at half or 2/3rds of what they are asking for right now. I thought I'd get more pushback, not agreement :)

For those who talk about river views where are you all from?

bjw2103,

The walk from SL to Marcy Ave TS is 15 mins not long @ all providing the individual on time and not in a rush. I agree with you "I'm not sure why anyone would pay such high prices to live in south Williamsburg." I have to add to that, I don't know why anyone would pay such high prices to live anywhere in WillyB.

80sman,

I know that hasidms are on welfare I just wanted to know if they reside in SL. Why are blacks and latinos knocked so hard for being on welfare and hasidms are allowed to collect? I thought welfare as we knew it in the 80s was done away with its a bigger situation at hand how hasidms continue to collect welfare likes its 1979. Are they able to do so through religion? I hope you are making this up PH parties with those activities.

jrw293,

I'm glad you claim to figure me out. The business savvy folks hit the nail on the head with this housing debacle you included. I will continue to trust the business savvy folks who miscalculated the amount of RE in demand because everyone wants to live in NYC and then and now is the time to buy. The business savvy folks are not off by a hair they are off by thousands in creating housing for NY'ers.

Did the business savvy folks foresee price chops of 200K plus when formulating all of this housing? Someone told me in HS RE only appreciates I never believed it and look at us today. I can listen to the person who has 2 Masters degree and/or 2 PhD's from prestigious schools and worked at the best RE firms in the nation but why should I and they created this mess. I choose to mix the sweet and sour to come up with a mutombonyc concotion that is pleasing to the taste. For those who don't like the mutombonyc concotion you can't please everybody.

In this life we have to use our better judgement. In this life we better have faith and trust in ourselves and not follow everything Case Shiller writes. I believe the laws of nature will always be in effect and when they are defied we have a crisis as such the laws of nature will always prevail. The gospel is according to the individual. jrw293, are you a Mayor Bloomberg fantasizer? People on SE always talk about the next person finances jrw293, how are your finances?

mutombonyc, the penthouse parties are real. The duplex penthouse has a hot tub, roof deck + balcony, a lucite piano. The stairs leading to the roof deck has no railing. There must have been 200 people packed into the apartment. I thought for sure someone was going to fall off and hurt themselves. The doorman didn't ask who was coming or going. Teenagers coming and going all over the place, bouncer, open bar with several bartenders set up in the (open) kitchen, DJ, MC, bouncers.

Shaefer Landing is the wild west. The market rate portion is a nice building in the middle of nowhere with lots of absentee owners who are underwater and will do anything for a few bucks to keep the bank off their back for another month.

80sman,

That is wild do you know the story of The Loft?

I expect more of these arrangements to occur. Owners have to take what they can get. High School party promoters and rich college students who want an upscale dorm will save the market!

The Gov't will crack down on it after a loss of life or serious injuries. LOL @ last statement.

"I have to add to that, I don't know why anyone would pay such high prices to live anywhere in WillyB."

It would really have to be a special place in a top location on the northside for that kind of pricing to be even remotely justified. I'm talking minimum 3BR with plenty of outdoor space and a killer layout here. Those are rare. Otherwise, you're talking a townhouse at this price.

bjw2103,

Understand, how are you doing today?

jrw293 - "sold out" means what the developer wants it to mean. The developer held on to quite a few units in the building. He did not put them on the market meaning all the ones on the market are "sold out"

I know this for a fact. I have been in them. The developers brother is a rare photos dealer. He has an apartment in the building and uses it to display and sell his collection.

Sold out - funniest quote of 2009.

Parties in the penthouse with wandering drunken people? Oh egads, who wants to deal with that in their building when they're paying that kind of $ for an apt? Ugh. When you're renting a rough-on-the-edges place one could at least pretend to deal with that, but for that kind of money, you've got to be kidding. If the developers have made their money back why not just sell at reasonable prices and move on, responsible people in a building are generally kinder to it physically and reputationally than what it sounds like they're doing.

Mutombonyc - ok, now I understand I think where you were going with that.

tandare,

explain, now I understand I think where you were going with that.

In todays news...

oops

http://curbed.com/archives/2009/03/24/schaefer_landing_seller_takes_short_sale_pitch_to_craigslist.php#reader_comments

This building was "sold out" in '06 soon to be on the leading edge of the burgeoning Williamsburg defaults scene. As I mentioned before the guy selling 20B holds other units in the building as do other members of his family.

The walls are paper thin which doesn't help. I was in a friend's apartment and I could hear the neighbor's TV. I'm surprised by this because the floors and structure seem very solid. Why cheap out on the walls?

Sold out does not mean 100% occupied or occupied at any percent. RE agencies purchased in hopes of flipping and making extra income.

80sman,

From your description of the PH parties it sounds like the projects. Is this what expensive RE with river views are succumbing too?

mutombonyc, it was kind of surreal, the party was full of underage south side brooklyn kids: not hasidm and not hipsters, old school south brooklyn. The lobby was a mix of mid-western/french parents visiting their kids who rent/own there and the party posse rolling in. It's not unusual to see a drug dealer or two (the nice kind, who deliver) coming in or out.

If you ask me, Schaefer Landing is a beautiful woman who is a little down on her luck and has taken to some questionable practices to make ends meet.

80sman,

I know WillyB very well LOL. Sometimes I act like the posting here are greek I want to check other peoples responses and logic. 80s are you from WillyB?

get the guillotine:people on here relish denouncements,in this case schaefer landing.i know people who live there,who love it,as owners annd tenants{sl south}that building is sold out to outside purchasers.the interior construction is well done{albeit not 5 star}.on my visits ive never noticed a noise problem.too many "smart"people use curbed ,under the cloak of annanimity,denounce without basis,andoften commit slander and libel,without any reproachment from others.is this acceptable?

jrw293,

Some of the words you use are uncalled for, misspelled and are not found in the dictionary. You remind me of the unibomber writing a manifesto.

tandare,

If this is the asking price 1,350,000 back in 2006. Do you know how much did the current owner mortgage for? How much did the current owner put down?

Per Acris

Deed -- 1.48 Million

Mortgage #1 -- 1 MM JPMorgan
Mortgage #2 -- 300k National City

Let me know if I used Acris right. Also, how does a short sale work with two mortgages?

jmkeenan,

Thank you, do you know how much the individual put down, how much was their closing cost if they had any and what there mortgage rate is?

By those numbers, this housing crisis is serious in Ny.

My browser crashed when I tried to look a the documents. I suppose if the deed was for 1.48 and he had 1.3 million in mortgage then he must have had a deposit of 180,000. So little more than 10 percent.

I don't know if the documents in Acris will tell you rates, but take a look -- anyone can use it, just google acris. All you need is the address

jmkeenan, thnx.

jmkeenen, those numbers are correct. Check out what other properties in the building the same guy + family own. I'm surprised they haven't fled the country yet.

80sman,

Is this person super rich?

mutombonyc -- i meant simply that i didn't understand your first posting, so your second re: normandie was helpful.

have no idea how shortsales/foreclosures work with 2 mortgages. I'll be surprised to see if this gets sold anytime soon for anything close to the covering costs.

80sman -- I found other property the family had, but not in that building, I was going to ask you about that. I did a search of Acris by their last names and found property in downtown, tudor city, and brooklyn, but nothing else in the building -- that's why I thought i had misused acris.

duh, I see the apartment next door had some issues :)

tandare,

I can't take credit for that jmkeenan posted re:normandie.

Weird is that they flipped from The Gretsch to Schafers Landing -- were these supposed to be income properties do you think? Or are they just a tight knit family...

Can someone provide a like to this info? What is their family last name?

link

Mutombo -- Some people think it's an invasion of privacy to post the family names to the site. I disagree, it's a public record, but I don't want to start a flame war.

Anyone can use Acris, it's free and if you read the screens carefully it makes sense. You need to allow pop ups and you need to put in the full address (so you need to use Kent Avenue here). For a big development you also need the unit number. You can also look people up by name (which is what 80sMan did (and I followed). That can give you an idea about the buyers -- are they flippers, long time NYC real estate people, etc.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/jump/acris.shtml

A second short sale, asking just over $500/sf:

http://curbed.com/archives/2009/03/27/another_schaefer_landing_short_sale_hits_market.php

http://www.star-cities.com/listman/listings/l0032.html

SL & a lot of the new developments especially larger developments in WillyB are becoming very exciting and no one is still renting or mortgaging.