Windows on 123

Jason

I never saw it, but here is my correspondence with the fellow. I wrote back that if he cannot even share rough price information I saw no point in looking, and asked him to let me know when he can share such information.
No response to date. Let us know what you think if you get to see it.

From: Windowson123
Subject: RE: Website Contact us www.windowson123.com
To: "Joe Davis"
Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 11:39 AM

Hi Joe and thank you for your flexibility regarding scheduling an appointment. Friday is great for me, so I will email you on Thursday to see if you are available.

As the project has yet to launch, I am not permitted to email or give out printed material. However I am permitted to give tours and I would be happy to do so and provide you with relative information during the tour.

Thanks again,
David Daniels
__________________
Windows on 123 Apartments and Lofts
Executive Director of Sales
Corcoran
Ph: 212-531-2222
Fax: 212-531-4444
www.windowson123.com

A real estate implosion waiting to happen. See my comment in the thread yesterday on 2280 FDB. This is the developer of 267 West 124th Street and 50 127th Street, which are mostly, but not completely sold out, and in which developer now has to compete against resales. They've also built a number of condo buildings downtown. Their website strangely seems to have disappeared in the past few months. The buildings they've done until now in Harlem are of extremely high quality-- gotta give `em that. Windows on 123 is a glitzy, glassy, very hastily constructed building on a block that has several empty lots, and several shells that were initially marketed at absurd prices by Halstead and Corcoran with a little help from Elliman on struggling townhouse rentals. IMHO, Windows on 123 will be a leader in the shattering of bloated Harlem real estate prices. IMO, by the end of the summer (if not before) Harlem condo developers will finally be forced to recognize that keeping their eyes wide shut to the new market reality is not going to make it disappear.

i agree with you cherrywood

on the other hand a bunch of brownstones have recently come on the market at absurdly inflated prices -- one even raised its price in a week....I guess there is huge competition for buying a Harlem brownstone today
A realtor called Todd Stevens seemed to try to explain to my friend why Harlem is more desirable than the UWS, and hence priced appropriately.

Where are seeing brownstones going UP? The asking for the 10 or so renovated brownstones near me have declined about 25% on average, and they have been on sale for an average of about a year. you post that broker's #.

As for 123 - how can it not have LAUNCHED!?!?! They were selling 5thonthepark 2 years ago, and people still don't live there. 2280fdb since summer 2008, and that won't be open until 2010. So a building 90% complete sill is not for sale? Methinks there is a huge problem....

The Savannah on FDB also 90% complete and no info on sales.

Also Livmor 90% (from the outside) and no sales details.

Also another couple on FDB looking 70%+ with no sales info.

What are people waiting for? Any ideas folks??

I spoke with a Harlem developer this week. He has a dozen brownstones he turned into condos (some of the duplexes priced last year at over 1.5!!) He told me that he is offering rent to own now. He had cut prices down 20% but he said he will definitely not go any lower in any case, since he really believes in Harlem. He took them out of the market and is offering rent to own. I don't see how keeping a lot of empty duplexes in this market makes any sense, even if they will eventually go up (in a decade.) I just don't get what is happening with Harlem. Nobody buys, nobody sells. I am getting priced out forever from that neighborhood and being pushed into buying in the UWS! Ridiculous. I like Harlem a lot, but, get real. A fringe in a downturn is still a fringe.

Example of someone raising prices on a brownstone.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/394094-multi-537-manhattan-avenue-central-harlem-new-york
there are a couple of others -- relisted with an agent and priced higher than before
same neighborhood
121st/122nd and Manhattan/Morningside

Mimi: v interesting what this person is saying -- these are condos in a brownstone, not the whole brownstone?
does this include 104 or 106 W 123 -- if so those buildings have seen dramatic reductions in condo prices relative to 2007. I looked into one of them, and they were never willing to be clear on the ridiculous maintenance charges -- on digging into it, tax abatement seemed to be an issue and was being wrapped into the maintenance.
The developer was Rosetree I think represented by a Tony??

Very curious strategy as you indicate.What is his rent to own offer?
I agree that these people seem to be acting in quite an irrational way -- once their deep pockets are unlined, they may revert to sanity or of course benefit from the bailout programs

The big problem for a lot of developers is waiting for the attorney general to approve the offering plan. Until that happens, you cannot legally offer for sale or describe the property in any detail. Problem is, the AG's office has had a backlog of 6+ months on offering plans.

Well, that ONE with a price increase compares to the other ten I have tracking that are down about 25% from there original ask and have been for sale (or in some cases for sale or rent) for 1 or even TWO years. Not to mention the competing 3 and 4 bedroom doorman condos in Harlem for sale/rent. There is simply no market anymore for these, when you can buy (or rent) 3-4 beds for the same or in the case of renting rent for a LOT less in prime UWS or midtown areas.

Which, by the way, is I think the real reason windows 123 is stalled. Their lender probably won't provide another dime, since you can't even RENT luxury units in Harlem as a landloard. These days I mean.

Examples of cut brownstones near me:

04/07/2007Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $3,195,000.
05/15/2007Price decreased by 6% to $2,995,000.
07/17/2007Listing is no longer available.
03/31/2008Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
03/31/2008Price decreased by 13% to $2,600,000.
04/16/2008Price decreased by 4% to $2,500,000.
06/06/2008Price decreased by 8% to $2,300,000.
07/24/2008Delisted temporarily.
08/29/2008Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
12/13/2008Listing is no longer available.
02/19/2009Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
02/19/2009Price decreased by 13% to $1,995,000.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/84898-multi-9-west-123rd-st-central-harlem-new-york

________________________________________________

03/31/2008Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $2,499,000.
07/03/2008Price increased by 0% to $2,500,000.
07/23/2008Price decreased by 3% to $2,425,000.
09/19/2008Listing is no longer available.
09/26/2008Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
09/30/2008Price decreased by 3% to $2,350,000.
10/26/2008Listing is no longer available.
11/12/2008Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
11/12/2008Price decreased by 15% to $1,995,000.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/211261-house-14-west-120th-st-central-harlem-new-york
_______________________________________

and for good measure a brand new condo in the area:

06/29/2007Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $2,300,000.
08/24/2007Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available.
08/25/2007Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $2,300,000.
02/16/2008Listing is no longer available.
05/17/2008Price decreased by 9% to $2,100,000.
07/29/2008Re-listed by Halstead Property.
02/03/2009Price decreased by 5% to $1,995,000.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/101005-condo-265-west-122nd-street-central-harlem-new-york

And they all have a few more rounds of price cuts to go.

Joedavis: I found this guy looking at temporary rentals in Craigslist and I called. His company was advertising a furnished 3 bed-duplex. I didn't keep his tel#, but I can look again. I don't feel comfortable posting his name here, if you want post an email and I'll send the info if it´s still there. Seems the condos they have are mostly between 125 and 138. Soon they will realize that this year foreign families are not flocking to spend the summer in Harlem...Seems like a lot of craigslist temporary rentals in Manhattan are condos that failed to sell. Some of them rent for a minimmum of 3 months. T. The temporary rental prices are really high. And some, unbelievable unlivable...

A condop in my hood - its REALLY BAD!!!! (This is now in auction, 895k is the minimum bid.)

08/11/2006Previous Sale recorded for $(insiders only)
01/22/2009Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Barak Realty at $1,725,000.
02/25/2009Delisted by Barak Realty.
03/03/2009Also Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $1,495,000.
03/24/2009Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $895,000.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/394492-condo-2002-fifth-avenue-central-harlem-new-york

Thx very much Jason -- the last one is REALLY BAD - given their maintenance and the room sizes they are crazy to expect that anyone will pay over $895k unless they really really ove terraces and a parking spot.
Wow
265 W 122 is indeed our friend Futterman with Boland/Engler marketing
Pricing is really aspirational
Have you seen this place -- I have not -- it may be done very nicely and if so, it may sell for $1.5 to an enterprising buyer
9 W 123 is actually quite nice, in parts, -- the rental unit is not redone. The listing agent, Todd Stevens works hard, but still has not reconciled himself sufficiently to the pricing reality, so I think this goes well down too.

I havent seen 14 W 120, and yes I agree that several of these have come down quite a bit, but the ones I have seen, and as you note, will go down.

Mimi
125 to 138 -- really has crashed -- there are several renovated brownstones in the 1.2 million range
My guess is that you are talking about the Harlm lofts people. At this point I would not buy in that area -- hoping that the prices below 125th come down to the same point, since the differences in the past were not nearly as staggering as they are now

Yep joedavis, it's HL. I just check Craig's, today they have a condo for 1.39m. listed...I can't imagine who will spend that in 2009 for an apt in Harlem...as I said, I am being priced out of Harlem and now looking in the UWS...less space, but less risk, and more sensible sellers. I wonder if anchored sellers are good or bad for Harlem...

Mimi
UWS prices are approaching Harlem asking prices -- you cant quite compare in many cases because the properties are different -- pre-war coop vs brownstone condo, but basically if you are looking for a 2/3 br in the UWS you can find one that is priced similarly to several of the new developments in Harlem

Yes, there are many in Harlem that are cheaper still, but given the difference in facilities and amenities in the areas + the potential difference in appreciation/depreciation it is hard to justify paying the Harlem premium.

Perhaps the Harlem sellers will decide that they do need to sell at some point

Harlem sellers won't have make that decision-- the market will make the decision for them if Harlem buyers find the UWS is within their reach. Most (not all) Harlem buyers (aside from folks in the brownstone market) were looking in Harlem in the last 4 years only because they had been priced out of downtown markets. JD is right in arguing that in the aggregate (differences in facilities/amenities and the appreciation/depreciation issues) buying in the Harlem market when there are other options will soon cease to be a rational economic decision.

What you guys all said. I have ecided to rent for two more years because I think prices will go down or be flat for that long. However, even in the rental market, UWS and UES places of similar size are now becoming comparible to Harlem ones. Brownstones, no, but condos for rent and rental doorman bldgs yes. Its CRAZY that bridges at 124th/3rd or Susan's court could ask for $4k a month for 2/2s when 2/2s are for rent for 4k or less at 72nd on both sides of the park!

So this building is finally on the market. They have put up a few 2 and 1 br units. The realtor finally wrote back to me -- they seem to be pricing 600-700 psf. One question is whether the psf is inflated. Has anyone looked at any of these apts?

Looks like they are pricing approx on par with Dafina and a bit below 2280 FDB. Spells declines for 2280 FDB.
Wonder if they will be able to get much more than 500 psf at this point if they truly want to sell.

There's no way in the world they are going to get $700 psf for apartments on that block. I wouldn't be surprised if they either have to (a) go below $500 or (b) go rental. The same developer is still holding onto a sponsor unit at 267 West 124th Street (a much nicer building) that is priced at $484 psf. As Mimi put it a few days ago, "Ridiculous!"

267 west 124th I think is a bit more desirable as its much closer to the expeass ABCD

How can they go rentl though? NO ONE is renting the luxury 2 and especially 3 bds for rent NOW in Harlem at Soha118, the fitzgerald, Kahlari, Brideges, etc...plus they rental half of 5thonthepark which just started showing. If you track these on streeteasy, these plus brownstones for rent languish vacant for as much as a year before being rented.

Sponsor just listed a bunch more units at Windows.

Thanks. I went to http://www.corcoran.com/property/nd/detail_overview.aspx?ndevid=455&userid=DSD

They will be for rent very soon. Luxury new condo developments completed in 2007 STILL have units for sale in Harlem.

Yes, the market is saturated right now.
I just saw that Graceline Court put up a rental. Not sure if this is the Sponsor or an investor, but two apts of that size have closed. I am curious to see when 5th on the Park is done and how many people walk from deposits. At Graceline, over 50% of contracted buyers did not close.

5th on the park will compete with itself - the non-doorman overpriced 1481 5th is open now, and I gurentee you some owners of the condos in the same building (but with the doorman entrance) will put there units up for rent. I told the Cithabitats broker that and he acted surprised...even though EVERY condo building in Harlme has owner-owned units for rent.

so they have added 3 br units now at 1.485 million for a claimed 1800 sq ft = $825 psf
The units have some terraces as well
maintenance is $1440 with a part time doorman, and a pending 15 year tax abatement

hmmm... will be interesting to see how this does.
Compare Columbia House on 238 W 108 (Broadway) which has a much better location, and similar quality finish and amenities but smaller real space (claimed 1789 sq ft but really more like 1500) for $1.25 million asking and maintenance that is projected to be about half the # here, with approved tax abatement.
111 CPN 3A is larger and is available for about the same price but with a higher maintenance (that includes parking).
2280 FDB and this one should duel it out

Any projections for final selling price?

How about $0? I think this will go the way of all condo-to-rental conversions.

It could be that these luxury condos are now competing with townhouses for buyers. According to the streeteasy 1st quarter '09 Market Report, there were 10 townhouse sales in Upper Manhattan. http://docs.streeteasy.com/market_reports/2009Q1_Report.pdf

But I'm wondering how many of these townhouses are actually in Harlem because from my conversation with brokers I find it difficult to believe that there were even 10 sales in Harlem so far this year. I'm aware of 2 Harlem townhouse sales last quarter.

This one in Hamilton Heights:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/317367-multi-457-west-143rd-street-hamilton-heights-new-york

And this one off Morningside which seemed quite overpriced to me.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/290756-multi-357-west-121st-street-central-harlem-new-york

Upper Manhattan can include East Harlem, Inwood and Wash Heights as well. Perhaps some sales closed in these areas. I guess if I broke down and became an Insider I could search streeteasy records but being 'thrifty' as I am, I'll just wait for Halstead to publish their free Townhouse Report which is available on their website.

There are definitely $1-2 MM refurbished townhouses for sale in central harlem, some right near me in the Mt. Morris Park area.

Hmmm, I forgot I listed some of them above, click on the links.

So now they have put up 20 listings. Still wonder if they really are trying to sell or have woken up to the realities of the market.
The 3 bedrooms are coming to $1.5 million each -- the sizes are good and the terraces should be a big plus. I am tempted to see and make an offer. Would buy at the right price is they are as nice as they promise to be from the description.
However, the broker representing the seller totally seems to be disinterested in selling. It takes him days to respond to email. When they first put up the website months ago it took him weeks to respond to the email (no response ever to registration and request for information from their link). Then he was willing to show but not name a price. No follow up to prior emails indicating interest, even when he did start listing the apartments. I had written a bunch of times asking re status and got a response once. When he put the first 2 brs up I asked again and in a few days the response trickled back that he will put up the 3brs. Nothing now in 2 days after sending an enthusiastic response expressing a desire to see this weekend and make an offer.
Perhaps these guys think that they have marked these apts down so much from their original optimistic asking price that they will sell as hotcakes and you can ignore or at least not move aggressively on potential qualified customers.
On balance, there are other brokers who seem to write daily pushing one property or another. So, it makes sense that some are non-responsive or slow so the concept of an average can be established and demonstrated in the real world.

I saw this weekend there was an open house on Sunday. there was a lot of families and couples looking. the apartments were, IMHO, beautiful. There were several 2 bedroom layouts and almost every one had outdoor space, which i need. definitely going to be back soon

i checked this place out last weekend. the block is really pretty and i loved the wood floors and big windows. there is a gorgeous church on the corner and it seems like a friendly block. the lobby is nicer than the pictures show. i think, though, that the prices are a bit high, especially for the units that don't have a lot of outside space and are on lower floors.

Has anyone noticed that the broker for this development seems to have stopped scheduling Sunday open houses-- a mere month after it began showing? Looks like there's trouble, right here in Hudson River City-- or, more precisely, on 123rd Street.

visited an open house this sunday. Looked at the 3br units on the 7th and 8th floor. They are attractive with nice views and some outdoor space. However, kitchens are glossy with high end appliances but completely lacking in storage -- one would need to add. Bathrooms are nice but all have tubs -- no separate showers. All in all attractive, but at 1.5 million a pop and 1500 a month maintenance it is not clear that these are a buy.
Realtor would like offers, but does not seem optimistic about a 20% lower offer.
Lot of inventory in this range right now and will be interesting to see how this fares.

I might have said "It is clear that these are NOT a buy."

Why is it STILL not finished? They have been 99% finished for the past six months!

JD,

They will sit idle for a very long time until they (broker/developer) get a grip on reality.

seperate showers in addition to tubs in all but a couople units from the floorplans

you are right -- the floor plans do show a shower in the master. I did not see one in the 7th floor unit we looked at but not everything was installed -- so I stand corrected.
Forgot to mention that I asked re financing -- how is one supposed to get a mortgage when the building is 0% sold and lenders are looking at 70% -- does the building have any financing arranged. Answer was lenders are eager to lend and he will give us names of brokers who will find financing.
In short, they have not gone to the effort to set up something so that this aspect is easier.

I walked by it today, and it remains totally and completely unchanged from when I posted 10 days ago. No progress. I think the developer going bankrupt has affected things, despite the brokers showing the place after this occured.

Where did you hear that the developer is bankrupt?

I thought it was the same ones as 5thonthepark, no? Am I wrong?

Restore - to get rid of jrm

2280 fdb developer is related to the 5th developer
Jeff Bennett is the developer of 50 w 127 , 267 w 124th and windows
had not heard he is bankrupt

walked down fdb today and was struck by the huge number of nearly finished buildings
also 86 Morningside is a huge one

any ideas on these?

joedavis is right. Bennett has done a number of developments downtown, on the UWS and in the boroughs. I think he may have overstretched with Windows on 123, which I see is already starting price markdowns. You can now find comparable properties at comparable prices in up and down and off-Broadway from 103 or so into the 110s. Given the lack of amenities (a problem with no likely short- or even mid-term solution) I suspect that a lot of the purchaser pool Bennett was counting on will end up buying on the west side of Morningside Park.

Oh, well it was 5th that was bankrupt, I guess I thought they were the same. In either event, both 5th and Windows have had no contruction movement in 4 weeks, and i see them all the time.

Curbed says "5%-10% cuts on Harlem's Windows on 123" - so still to high but lower. BTW, STIIIIILLL no change in this bldg. The bigger one has been 99% finished for 3 months, and the smaller 90% finished for three months. No more construction, not a single sale.

See: http://curbed.com/archives/2009/06/11/curbed_pricechopper_prime_time_for_late_spring_cleaning.php#more

No doubt at all that this puppy is in serious trouble. I haven't been in that block for a while, but if construction has been halted I can't imagine why anyone in their right mind would sign a contract to buy there, price cuts or not. I wouldn't be surprised if developer Jeff Bennett decides to dump his Corcoran broker-- and soon. The broker on Windows 123 has also had the exclusives for several months on the remaining units in a couple of Bennett's other Harlem developments. He hasn't managed to see a single apartment to contract in those other buildings, and there's no reason to think he'll mar that perfect record at Windows 123.

What broker has a good track record in 2009 for $1MM+ Harlem condos? Anyone?

You do have a point there, although there are a few recorded sales this yearabove $1MM (in the single digits) at 111 CPN, Graceline Court (at least they kept them from walking away from contracts that were probably signed quite some time ago), Kalahari (in contract but not closed) and the one utterly inexplicable sale to a well-known actress at the Fitzgerald. I honestly don't know how these developers and brokers have persuaded themselves that they are going to move this category of inventory without massive price cuts.

it will be interesting to see how this one evolves -- the broker admitted that they have no financing plan -- "there is plenty of financing out there, mortgage brokers call me all the time to see if I have clients". Was unaware about the 70% sold rule for banks.
The building itself is as nice as the other Bennett buildings, and the number of units for sale(resale) in those have been growing.
I feel like a vulture, waiting to punce once these sort of places hit 500 psf or lower, which is where they belong based on their construction cost and land cost + fair margin for the developer.

jd, Vultures play a very important role in their ecosystems.

still 0 contracts signed on this one and they are holding back on releasing its twin, 119 west 123rd, so they don't flood the market with these wonderful apts.

wonder if anyone will actually sign a contract in this situation with no prospects of the building selling out in the near or medium future. Maintenance issues will emerge too.
Of course there are the large number of buildings on Frederick Douglas and on 122nd waiting to come on line and Graceline is still only about a 1/3rd sold.

Does luxury wilt? or Harlem bloom regardless

I've seen the units and I actually really liked them - especially the D line. But compared to SoHa or some of the FDB stuff, Windows is poor on amenities and high on maintenance fees. I think this might go rental if they can afford it - or they become really aggressive, push into the below $500SQF range and try to move the units before 2281FDB hits the market with even more units.

Anyone have any comments on this? wow, no sales.

Any amendments forthcoming or in progress for CC reductions? $1512 cc is off the meters.

Two units just went into contract.

the common charges are way too expensive... I visited the building, the "gym" is laughable ! A tiny space in the basement, no windows...

No one is buying there.

8 units are sold... would love to know at what price

I was just there this week. It's simply beautiful. Completely different than any other development I've looked at. Vie been very disappointed when looking at the other developments in the area. they are less expensive but they are obviously cheaply built and I kept being reminded of dorm rooms while looking at them. In this W. 123 building I found real homes in a real building. I was very pleasantly surprised. 8 units are sold and another 4 units have contracts out according to the building's website and the material I received while there. True it's not for everybody, you have to be able to afford it and as with everything in this world, you get what you pay for. I paid more for my Audi and I'd do it again. I don't believe I was ripped off because car sales are slower now, I sitll had to pay more than for some other makes of cars. I just can't drive a crappy car ... and I just can't live in a dorm. I admit this building is for very discerning buyers with certain requirements for a home, and a budget to match those requirements, not everybody, it's true.

*** Correction *** I was just there this week. It's simply beautiful. Completely different than any other development I've looked at. *** I've been very disappointed when looking at the other developments in the area. they are less expensive but they are obviously cheaply built and I kept being reminded of dorm rooms while looking at them. In this W. 123 building I found real homes in a real building. I was very pleasantly surprised. 8 units are sold and another 4 units have contracts out according to the building's website and the material I received while there. True it's not for everybody, you have to be able to afford it and as with everything in this world, you get what you pay for. I paid more for my Audi and I'd do it again. I don't believe I was ripped off because car sales are slower now, I sitll had to pay more than for some other makes of cars. I just can't drive a crappy car ... and I just can't live in a dorm. I admit this building is for very discerning buyers with certain requirements for a home, and a budget to match those requirements, not everybody, it's true.

Some actually closed. Wow.

http://harlembespoke.blogspot.com/2010/08/dwell-windows-on-123-condominiums.html

And at suprisingly modest discounts, if we are to believe the Streeteasy reports. I thought the building was quite nicely done although the specific units didn't work for me.

^^^I do find it hard to believe people would pay that much for a not full sevice bldg, though the maintainence and taxes are super low.

I would bet $1000 per unit that the sponsor paid all closing costs i.e. and probably will pay a few years maintenence ie the net cost will be 5-10% lower. This is common all over Manhattan to keep the official sales price higher seeming.

Can you walk around at night this far north?

yes you can walk around - and i believe the developer was offering 10K towards closing. sponsor units have extremely high closing costs. so that's a good thing. most developers in harlem won't budge an inch on that

"Can you walk around at night this far north?"

Unless you are ON 125th, no one is out at night in Central harlem. You are far, far more likely to get mugged or stabbed or raped walking out of a West Village bar at night.

Have to call some BS on this, I don't know Harlem that well but.............Unless you are ON 125th, no one is out at night in Central harlem. You are far, far more likely to get mugged or stabbed or raped walking out of a West Village bar at night.

the developer should pay the transfer fees, their attorney costs and give some comps

I just dug this up from 20 months ago. Now, you would have to go to http://www.clrsearch.com/10011_Demographics/Crime_Statistics?compare=10027 to get the updated stats. But its still the same. 10011 is more dangerous for violent crime than 10027. You can compare any two zip codes. Do it again and again and you will find west side highway areas from Tribecca to Chelsea with more crime per person.

"Crime (10014 – West Village)
Total crime risk 213
Personal crime risk 316
Murder risk 190
Rape risk 88
Assault risk 343
Property crime risk 187
Burglary risk 167
Larceny risk 119
Motor vehicle theft risk 186

Jason: As you can see, a MUCH higher crime rate than 10035 or 10027 in East Harlem and Central Harlem. And this has been the case for about a decade now. And yet people, because I can only guess they have certain racial stereotypes, always ask me “is it SAFE up there?” I am a LOT safer in Harlem than if I lived in Gwyneth Paltrow’s building in the village, apparently. Or than I would be in Gramercy, Lincoln Square, the Meatpacking district, and Tribeca.

Crime (10027 – where I live, central Harlem)
Total crime risk 111
Personal crime risk 161
Murder risk 138
Rape risk 67
Assault risk 143
Property crime risk 102
Burglary risk 56
Larceny risk 96
Motor vehicle theft risk 111

Crime 10035 in East Harlem

Total crime risk 111

Personal crime risk 161

Murder risk 138

Rape risk 67

Assault risk 143

Property crime risk 102

Burglary risk 56

Larceny risk 96

Motor vehicle theft risk 111

__________________________________________

Now compare that to

Crime (meatpacking – 10011 straddling Chelsea and the West Village, and where DoubleClick is)
Total crime risk 141
Personal crime risk 218
Murder risk 140
Rape risk 85
Assault risk 221
Property crime risk 118
Burglary risk 97
Larceny risk 98
Motor vehicle theft risk 111

Crime (Lincoln Square – 10023)
Total crime risk 134
Personal crime risk 226
Murder risk 121
Rape risk 88
Assault risk 149
Property crime risk 95
Burglary risk 49
Larceny risk 84
Motor vehicle theft risk 109

Crime (Tribeca – 10007)
Total crime risk 117
Personal crime risk 162
Murder risk 151
Rape risk 43
Assault risk 207
Property crime risk 113
Burglary risk 47
Larceny risk 197
Motor vehicle theft risk 78

Crime (Soho – 10012)

Total crime risk 174
Personal crime risk 266
Murder risk 190
Rape risk 94
Assault risk 361
Property crime risk 146
Burglary risk 123
Larceny risk 116
Motor vehicle theft risk 137

Crime (Gramercy Park 10003)

Total crime risk 134
Personal crime risk 195
Murder risk 138
Rape risk 99
Assault risk 131
Property crime risk 123
Burglary risk 90
Larceny risk 74
Motor vehicle theft risk 138 "

Nice units, high common charges and limited amenities.

But a nice block too. Safe, yes. Certainly much safer than the trendy Lower East Side or Alphabet City.

well it has parking and a gym that is nice, i do wonder why the cc is so high, maybe to many lottery units getting discounts?

Is the tax abatement 15 or 25 years for this building?

Does this place only have 1 elevator? That is bad news if you are on the 8th floor.

Only one.

I have a bit fearful of places with 1 lift, is anyone living here? Can anyone comment?

Has anyone moved in here yet?

I live in a place with 2 elevators, built in 2009, and sometimes they are BOTH out. So one...that would be bad. Luckily I am only on 3...

tobuyornot: Move-ins here happened a while ago. When I looked at these places in Jan, people had moved in. I did not meet any residents, though. I'd assume that the only one who haven't moved in are the 8 who haven't closed...