I went into contract this week, and this is mostly a function of needing to find a place to live due to relocation. My corporate housing was running out. Wife pressure to close a deal probably also adds to the mix.

Found a nice place in Carnegie Hill, got a decent price for it a price race to the bottom against another unit in the same exact line obviously helped a lot. However I almost feel like a forced wedding, I think I find that I need a house and several months of house hunting took a toll. Do I beleive this place is an investment HELL NO do I think I will make a profit in the future NO WAY. I will be more than happy if it HOLDS value. I guess this is my current view of realstate.

I wonder how many people out there are buyers like me. Contrary to many people here I hate visiting open houses and going trough 300 listings. I think I probably saw more than 200 apts all over manhattan, heck I even checked williamsburg.
If you are wondering about all the contract activity remind yourselves that some people need to buy and house hunting for years is not an option.

i've been renting for 5 years now. just getting the hang of it. even painted the place.

Simple reason, Wife was death set on buying and I was so tired of looking at places on sale. that I decided that I have better close on a "ok" place and move on. Still this is a coop if for any reason I get rejected by the board (highly doubtful I have great financials) then the most likely outcome is me renting.

Somehow I find funny that people get very happy to own a place even excited to buy, I lack any emotions regarding the transaction. So far my total monthly cost including maiteinance and mortage is equal to what I would spent renting a similar place. Mostly due to the fact that I am putting down 33%.

well, it's almost done. do your best to enjoy it. it's a place to live, you seem as though you can afford it, it made the wife happy, and you don't think you'll take a bath, so you're doing better than many.

I am so sick and tired of hearing men complain that they bought -- or can't sell -- based on the "wife". It is ridiculous. It is a VERY large investment, for most the largest, and you really should get a pair -- in lieu of going against your gut on the market.

If you wife isn't a complete douche -- she should understand the economic impact to your mutual financial well being and she should be SUPPORTIVE and contributing to the cause -- if in no other form than supporting your sense of the market.
If she is not making a finacial contribution, I would buy in my name only and tell her to go pound sand.

Thx Aboutready, still funny how buying in this market has that creepy feeling that you could be making an aweful mistake he he. I guess I look at inventories wonder what will happen this summer. Still I have to say I was surprised to see that many similar units that I looked at some point went into contract that week too. Things eventually move,even if it takes 10 months for that to happen. I have to say I am a bit less bearish on Manhattan realstate, as long as this ridiculous low rates remain. By the way I go 3.8% from wells fargo for a 30 year mortgage.

But only buy when I felt the timing was appropriate...

Manhattanfox, well she is doing a financial contribution this is a 50/50 partnership. And she is in the title too. I agree this is a VERY large investment, but put it simply some people are emotional they see a place they love it and if they can afford it they buy it. Some other like me like to see every possible valuation and I ponder trough all the cons and pros, in this case I will never be completely sattisfied considering that I migth be missing something. Still in the current realstate market buying right now is basically doing a gamble and to feel a bit safer I lowered my bet (budget) by 30% to decrease my exposure.

Can't fathom arguing with my partner about real estate. Our partnership is: I come up with various options, he vetoes.

santaoct, i can analyze this market into its grave. but once you pull the trigger, let it go. nothing is perfect, you may lose money in the short term, you might not. but right now, as long as you can afford it and the window treatments you'll need to keep the peeping toms at bay, with enough left over to enjoy life, then give it a rest and go pick out the new furniture, if you need any.

I agree wit A.R. but would add, you need to make sure your wife knows you did it for her. If prices go down(maybe they will go up?) you don't want a situation of "I told you so".

Also if more people thought you like did, we wouldn't have a housing crisis

This sounds like a breeding ground for resentment. Why would you allow your wife to bully into something you are so uncomfortable with?

withhold sex from her... that'll teach the old lady.... Just kidding.... squid ... you sound like you are not married :)

CC/AR/ and I know.... there are things of the heart.... the wallet does not understand.... but right next to you wallet..... the penis nods a knowing nod.....

I guess we know who wears the pants in the family. LOL

santaoct, chances are that you both will be very happy in your new place. In a few months you'd forget how contentious you'd felt.
Enjoy your apartment.

Nice idea w67thstreet, funny honestly I dont think I got a bad deal. And I was not hand fisted into buying the place if thats what Alpine292 implies. What I mean is that house hunting for 6 months is not for all of us. Also wait and see for another year although ideal would probably incurred in additional cost (wife nagging). All in all the transaction is done so time to move on he he.

santaoct as long as you do the deed with open eyes (33% equity helps) and there was some serious neighbor on neighbor love going on, a purchase is not the end of the world. This will free up more time for you to make more money I say... carry on old chap... long live the queen and all that ...

Paint if anything you want... but PLS PLS for the love of Allah.... do not wallpaper the place.... in 5 yrs it always peels off... :)

Think of the upside: for the next 25 years, every time you have an argument, you'll be able to use "Well, we bought this place because you wanted to against my objections and look what it did to us" in every single argument about any topic.

>>squid ... you sound like you are not married :)<<

Actually, cc, I am. Three years next month.

Santaoct, it helps any, it's not the market, it's you. Someone who has to see 200 places before they buy isn't a buyer, no matter what the price levels are.

I hope in time, though, that you will learn to love your new place. Since you're paying a rent-equivalent cost, you may feel merrier next April when you see how the nice U.S. government has given you a tax break.

Squid -- we're June marrieds too -- headed toward four! Every year we get a small replica of our wedding cake for our anniv, just ordered it again.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

30yrs: if he is going to drag out the same lame line every time they have an arg. for the next 25 yrs, just get divorced now.

30yrs speaks the truth. My wife is more of a gambler than I am. She loaded up on tech stocks in late '99 over my objections, looked like a star for about six months (while lording her brilliance over me) and then saw everything evaporate in the next year. It's now coming up on 10 years that I haven't had to endure the pitches for the latest crazy stock tip that her friend told her about. Best 250k I ever spent.

10023, exactly. where's the innovation, the spontaneity, the element of surprise?

>>Squid -- we're June marrieds too -- headed toward four! Every year we get a small replica of our wedding cake for our anniv, just ordered it again.<<

Ali--that's a great idea! I'm embarrassed to say we STILL have the top of our cake in the freezer--cannot figure out what to do with it at this point. Every year around now my husband and I kind of peek in on it, glance at each other, shrug, and then skulk away.

Sideline: your wife is just not tenacious enough. Wrong once doesn't necessarily mean wrong always.

So, all the women are typecast as pressuring the men to buy, and the men are the tolerant ones who "let" their honey make an expensive mistake. Because they'll end up paying for it the rest of the marriage by hearing about it. This dynamic does not sound healthy to me.

Hey, Santaoct. Why don't you grow a pair and take some responsibility. Do the leg work and quit blaming your wife for your laziness. I'm not usually a name caller. I reserve it for particular losers, like you.

double it chimpwolf... but I likez your name...

yo CC... was that youcannot above? :)

Santaoct,
got tired of looking, thought there might be a better life out there then going to one crappy OH after another? Thinking to yourself that, "hey, my wife would be really happy if we owned our own place". Totally get it.
Don't listen to the nay-sayers. A bunch of angry savages camped out like 300 Spartens waiting to attack. If your wife is happy then Mr. Happy should be happy then, all will be right with your slightly questionable choice. By the way, they are all slightly crappy choices in this town. We don't live here for the fabulous RE selection, value and choice. We are here because we like the action. Action, like charity, begins at home. I hope you look like that happy guy in the Enzite commercial.

CC - Female

Don't worry Santaoct, Suzanne researched this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubsd-tWYmZw

Congratulations! You're not alone... Doing plenty of hand wringing myself. But in the end we have plenty of time to let it soak so I'm not all that worried about short term weakness. Our down payment was large and we'll save 2K a month over renting. We saw a lot we liked and without exception all went into contract in short order. This helped convince us to pull the trigger now. A little more heat and we might be dealing with competing bids on these. Been there, done that.

You need a new wife instead of a new apartment

buyer's remorse. see a shrink and be done with it. enjoy the place.

Pretend it's your home,and not an investment...it will go along way towards making it feel "ok"! And you can save on therapy :-).

julia, be a good woman and read carefully. he admits he wouldn't buy but for his wife, but who is to say whose desires should be more important? one has to give, why do we assume she's a witch because he decided to go ahead and buy? no one put a gun to his head, and good man that santaoct is he clarified that they are equally invested and that he has mixed feelings about this at worst.

really, it's just soooo easy to label people. once again, santaoct, enjoy. even when I wanted to buy, was convinced it was the best idea since Wonder Bread, i threw up before closing. if you're wise, you'll take it seriously, as it should be taken, and then move on.

"Our partnership is: I come up with various options, he vetoes."

Haha...yeah, I think we all feel that way at certain times, right?

30yrs got it right.. you can pull it out everytime you guys get into an argument.. It is worth every cent...

i'm feeling awfully good about my marital relationship right about now. keeping score, what a fantastic basis for a marriage.

Ar...poor attempt at humor on my part

sorry julia, should have known.

Happy Wife....Happy Life....

Squid, take the top of your cake out of the freezer, take it to Veniero's, have them make something that looks and tastes like it, and eat it.

Keep the order slip and a photo, and repeat once a year.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

I am a wife, and I have to answer to some of your critics. I have the same issues with my husband, he never wants to buy. It is never the right time for him. Well we bought two apt while I was working and had more bargain power, and each time sold them for a very nice profit. Now we have been renting for 5 years, different apts, and you know what the teachers told us? Our kids need stability, they need a place in which they know they can grow up. So we might move to the suburbs as the prices are still much higher than in 2006. Life isn't about profit, we all need to build up a nice home in which family members can feel save, and create long lasting memories. It is sad that men are so greedy and don't manage to see the important issues.

Well put Viran. Sooner or later you have to weigh quality of life issues with economics and decide where your priorities lie -or should lie.
Endlessly tracking economic and real estate data and trying to determine optimum entry based solely on the mighty dollar might just get you a rental studio and alimony payments for life.

BTW... You lost me a little with the men are so greedy thing at the end ; )

"Endlessly tracking economic and real estate data and trying to determine optimum entry based solely on the mighty dollar might just get you a rental studio and alimony payments for life."

"Now we have been renting for 5 years, different apts, and you know what the teachers told us? Our kids need stability, they need a place in which they know they can grow up."

The teachers are right.

This is the fundamental problem with what appears to be about 80% of the people on this board. For those who still haven't quite grasped the concept, here it is again:

YOUR HOME IS NOT AN INVESTMENT; YOUR HOME IS A PLACE TO LIVE, AND TO CENTER YOUR LIFE.

If you're looking for a place to invest, look at stocks ... bonds ... bullion ... fine art ... even rental properties or other real estate that WON'T be your primary residence.

But as far as a place to live, it's impossible for most people to coordinate and time their specific personal space and location needs with the ups and downs of the market.

When is a good time to buy? WHEN YOU CAN AFFORD IT -- period.

what's wrong with renting?

There's nothing "wrong" with renting, but in the long run it's a colossal waste of money, and it doesn't allow for a comfortable retirement.

Indeed, since the Depression, the concept of home ownership is perhaps the single main thing that's enabled the Middle Class to afford a comfortable retirement. By buying your home and paying the mortgage during your peak earning years, after 15, 20, or 30 years, you eventually pay OFF the mortgage, and you own the home free and clear -- lightening the household budget considerably to that you can afford to take the pay cut that comes with not working anymore.

Renters do not have this option. While owners will eventually pay off their homes, renters will only see rent increases, by and large, forever.

I agree that it's all about affordability. Congrats to the people that can afford a family apartment at $850-$1200 sq/ft plus maintenence, taxes and childcare. Or even better, do it on one income.

matt, i have sold three properties at huge profit. the last in 2004. i'm capable of doing the math and right now i see no downside to renting. and i'm fairly sure that i saved money by not buying again in 2004, or even keeping the property that i then sold. and i'm not at all sure that my rent will increase any time in the near future, but i'd bet that real estate taxes will surprise many.

it's not a one-size-fits-all determination. that's my point. and many recent owners have not been paying off their mortgages, they've been refinancing them.

Aboutready, I suppose it's good that you can "play the market" with your primary residence. Sometimes you win. Other times you'll lose.

I can sometimes use my stereo turntable to make pottery too -- but that's not it's intended design, and eventually doing so will prove to be a bad idea.

Just as millions of Americans discovered misusing their homes as "investments" to play the market proved to be a bad idea.

i didn't play the market in the slightest. i looked around and saw that things didn't look so hot and got out. i, like many people, saw another option at the time that was cheaper, renting.

i don't have any personal interest in whether a given person or family chooses to rent or to buy. it's a personal decision. but that's exactly what it is, a decision. and to say that renting is always financially inferior is wrong.

OK fine. It's NEARLY always financially inferior.

Especially in this area, I feel like you never really pay off your home. Taxes and maintenance are half of equivalent rents in a lot of cases. All of the above have gone up and probably will continue to go up at least as much as rent.

The key to managing housing cost in retirement is to save enough money to generate an income sufficient to pay your housing costs, whether that's owned or rented. My significant other's parents sold two homes in CA and retired to a rental. They're loving it. The cash from the sale of their homes generates enough income to pay for their rent (and then some), and they can travel as much as they like (currently about 1/2 the year) without worrying about anything. Unless we see a period of 10% year-over-year rent increases accompanied by property tax decreases (ha!), renting is a much better choice for them.

I went from owning to renting myself back in 2007 when I moved to NY. The value of my former house has plummeted, while the taxes have gone up significantly. Meanwhile, my rent has decreased to the point that I'm paying 20% less than I was in 2007. Hard to see how renting + putting the difference in a savings account was a bad move.

I would like to own again but am in no rush. I considered buying this year and will consider again next year because the tax-adjusted cost of owning versus renting seems to be evening out. I do recognize the intangible benefits of ownerhsip and am willing to pay a small premium for them, with emphasis on small.

"I feel like you never really pay off your home. Taxes and maintenance are half of equivalent rents in a lot of cases. All of the above have gone up and probably will continue to go up at least as much as rent."

Only if you bought more than you could really afford.

And while taxes and maintenance DO increase, they're always proportionally smaller than any total rent bill.

aboutready, there's nothing wrong with renting, if you have the financial discipline to save.

Pre-bubble, the argument for buying a home (which I think still holds) was that it was something of an automatic savings plan -- paying the mortgage each month allows you to somewhat painlessly build equity over thirty years, which gives you something of a nut with which to start your retirement.

If you can save without doing that, power to you. It's just that most people can't.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

"paying the mortgage each month allows you to somewhat painlessly build equity over thirty years, which gives you something of a nut with which to start your retirement. If you can save without doing that, power to you. It's just that most people can't."

This is precisely what has gotten Americans into the trouble they are in today. You're not supposed to use your primary home as an investment for a "nut from which to start your retirement". Your home is a place to LIVE. The purpose of buying it rather than renting it is so that you'll eventually pay it off and not have a housing payment during your retirement. The home was not intended as a nest egg off of which to feed financially -- since even during your retirement, you'll need it for shelter!

ali,i agree. i've always advocated it as an enforced savings plan, but many have not used it as such with the HELOC and re-fi options. the 15-year mortgage would be a good tool for the financially profligate.

but as i think you'll agree, many people in NYC do not find it possible to "buy and hold" real estate for 30 years. the downturn may allow those who enter now to do so, baring unemployment or other issues. it's been difficult to afford anything, much less something a family can grow into, for the past ten years, yet you continue to hear people preach don't buy anything that won't suit you for 5-7 years. there's been quite a bit of disconnect between what is optimal and what is possible.

also, it is undeniable that owning property reduces mobility, particularly in times of economic duress. i just don't care for simplistic analyses that promote one form of financial planning over another.

how's your purchase going? have you heard anything?

"If you're one of the 10 million plus unemployed. then you can tell us about how prudent people plan for unemployment before they make a real estate purchase."

When budgeting for a home purchase, one has to look at his entire financial picture, including income and employment volatility. And while I admit many layoffs over these past several months caught many by surprise, we're all supposed to have at least three months' worth of living expenses in the bank (including mortgage and maintenance payments) ... or ideally six months' worth, especially if you own or you work in a field that's sensitive to economic downturns.

"many layoffs caught many by surprise? seems like a pretty significant understatement.... like everyone at Bear, Lehman, UBS & Merrill? like everyone at GM and Chrysler?"

People working in finance saw this crisis coming years ago, and if they were smart, they would have socked away at least SOME of their bonus money for the coming storm.

GM and Chrysler? Seriously??? The American automotive industry has been hanging by thread for years. Anyone who didn't see those layoffs coming is either retarded or dead.

if they saw it coming perhaps there's some culpability there?

many people i know in finance didn't have a clue. some did.

25% of americans are one paycheck away from disaster. i guess they're all stupid.

"25% of americans are one paycheck away from disaster. i guess they're all stupid."

Not stupid, just financially irresponsible.

so you saw the layoffs coming but still couldn't save, for any number of reasons. what then? do we really think people enjoy living so close to the edge that they wouldn't make any attempt to do otherwise? did you watch the Warren clip?

sorry santaoct, i think we've hijacked your thread. once again, enjoy.

Yes, I did see the Warren clip, aboutready -- and I LOVE Elizabeth Warren.

But the fact remains that you're living WAY beyond your means if you can't manage to scrape together enough savings to weather a three-month rainy day.

"Not stupid, just financially irresponsible."

Or stretched so thin for shelter, food, and transportation that saving becomes extraordinarily difficult if not impossible. Kudos to you, Matt, for being a wealthy manhattanite; 99% of Americans are not, and a great many of them have been stretched to the point of breaking to meet BASIC needs. Not luxuries.

AR, we have "heard" that our closing is June 10th, but the lawyers won't confirm. Rates just bounced against us, so this is the week where we play chicken with our lender.

--AR
{db}

how the hell did you get 3.8% 30 year fixed? with only 33% down?
Is it a studio you bought, otherwise, 3.8% on jumbo is never heard of.

"Or stretched so thin for shelter, food, and transportation that saving becomes extraordinarily difficult if not impossible."

Nothing is impossible.

If you're literally one paycheck away from disaster, you find a way to economize.

It might mean downsizing to a two-bedroom house. Yes, they actually exist. Three of my aunts and uncles raised entire families in two-bedroom houses. It can be done.

Cut back to one car, and use public transportation. If you don't have public transportation, find a (cheaper) home that's convenient to it.

Get rid of the cell phones.

Get rid of the cable television.

Get rid of the internet access, and use the public library to check your email.

These are not BASIC needs. If you're budgeting for these things at the expense of your BASIC needs, you're doing something terribly wrong.

"This is precisely what has gotten Americans into the trouble they are in today. You're not supposed to use your primary home as an investment for a "nut from which to start your retirement""

Matt, I think you might have misunderstood what Ali meant by "nut for retirement". A paid-off house allows retirees to keep a roof over their heads without worrying about keeping up with rents out of retirement income. This has nothing to do using home equity as an ATM.

This is also why I don't understand why people claim that cost of owning has to be same as (or less than) the cost of renting the same property. Think 30 years ahead, and you will see the difference.

" A paid-off house allows retirees to keep a roof over their heads without worrying about keeping up with rents out of retirement income. This has nothing to do using home equity as an ATM."

If that's what Ali meant, I'm sorry for misunderstanding. That's my point too.

About the renting vs Buying. Let's just imagine that you are renting happily for most of your life, then let's say when you are 65 the landlord wanna sell the place or not rent anymore to you for any other reason. Do you really think you will find a landlord happy to trust you. If you don't have any pay slip, who will rent to you. We are speaking about living in your own home, without any risk of being homeless. If you are scared of the mngt fees, I understand, but then make sure you own a place somewhere that you can call home. I said before that men are greedy because they always try to cash in on their decisions.

My significant other's parents are retired and in their 60s, and they had landlords clamoring to rent to them. Two people with 800+ credit scores, over a million dollars in liquid savings, two pensions, etc. They're dream tenants! Who wouldn't want to rent to them? Again, key is to have enough income to support your desired lifestyle in retirement, whether that involves owning or renting. If you want to rent, build up enough savings and put it into an investment vehicle like an annuity that will give you enough guaranteed payout to cover your rent.

"If you're literally one paycheck away from disaster, you find a way to economize."

Matt, I'm talking about people working two jobs with no health insurance raising families in overcrowded conditions that would make a family of four living in a Manhattan one-bedroom luxurious. Use public transit? In the rest of the country, good luck with that. In many, many places there simply IS NONE TO USE.

I don't get angry at the people on the boards too often, but you are without a doubt the biggest, most out-of-touch effin' snob I have ever had the displeasure to exchange words with.

Viran... grt... you lived in the same old same old for 30 yrs... and now as your azz gets flatter and wider you get to paint it a new color and do it again another 30yrs... but wait.. .this time it's SO SO NICE b/c no mortgage.... just RE tax / CC that WHOA = the old CC and Mortgage ....

... to me the last 30 yrs of my life will be spent either on a swam 40 or living 6months at a clip in all the different great cities in the world... why should NYC be the only nabe to get a taste of w67th.....

evnyc, you go girl. but it's the cable bill that causes them not to be able to afford blood pressure medication that costs $800 per month. people obviously are choosing to live on the edge of disaster. silly people.

w67th, i'm not sure if you outdid or undid yourself with that one. can't quite decipher. last para is clear, i think you should spread yourself thin.

"I'm talking about people working two jobs with no health insurance raising families in overcrowded conditions that would make a family of four living in a Manhattan one-bedroom luxurious. In the rest of the country, good luck with that. In many, many places there simply IS NONE TO USE."

If your situation is truly that dire, then you take drastic steps to correct the situation.

Sell the house, or get out of your too-expensive rental, and MOVE. Wherever. Move to another part of the country. Sell the car. Sell the TV. Sell the furniture. Move in with family. Regroup. Rethink your life strategy. Then move forward.

Honestly, generations of Americans have done this. Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?

"it's the cable bill that causes them not to be able to afford blood pressure medication that costs $800 per month. people obviously are choosing to live on the edge of disaster. silly people."

How about people eating properly and healthily, and getting enough exercise, rather than resorting to expensive Western Medicine snake oil to stay healthy?

Some people are in the hole (money-wise) almost from the time they leave home.

Thanks AR. You're right. Because people are just idiots if they can't scramble their way to the top of the scrapheap. They're just stupid hamster consumers without a brain in their heads.

Matt is on ignore now, so further outbursts ought to be contained. Apologies to everyone else, but not to Matt.

If that's the case perhaps they should have never left home.

Perhaps America's model of every family member living in his own household is ultimately unsustainable.

Perhaps the Europeans had it right all along, with multi-generational homes.

let's see. should they work two jobs to get by, or should they take a jog around the polluted neighborhood in their abundant time? should the poor buy the crappy food that is cheap and fills them up, or the fresh produce and lean proteins that cost more? or should they just live on beans. that's cheap. i know!! move to a tent city. thousands are doing it and you can too!! do it voluntarily, before you have to, that way you'll save some money.

blood pressure medication is western medicine snake oil? you are a menace.

I knew you were going to say that. Some parents don't want their children under their roof after 18.

matt, how many people do you have living per room in your household?

"living 6months at a clip in all the different great cities in the world... "

That sounds mighty appealing. But I'd prefer to pay for the cost of this life style with rents collected on vacant properties back home. Rodent-free hotle rooms in great cities tend to drain bank accounts pretty fast.

Alternatively, if you are willing to deal with 2-week clips, buying a couple dozen time shares would do the trick. :)

Two things to clarify on the above:

Rents collected on poperties -- that's what't left of it after paying CC and RE tax. If some day stevejhx comes up with a theory that says rents shouldn't be higher than CC+RE tax, i'd be **** out of luck.

2 dozen 2-week time shares only cover 48 weeks, justin you dummy! Well that's where the Swan 40 comes in. You spend the remaining 4 weeks sailing from port to port.

If people don't have savings, then maybe they can't afford Manhattan and should move somewhere else. Why is it someone's "right" to live in Manhattan? I really can't feel bad for people that complain the City is so expensive. Nobody forces you to live here.

carnegie, we weren't talking about manhattan. we're talking about people in general. if they can't afford to live anywhere, should they cease to live?

good luck hauling your own garbage to the landfills.

ar, this is a forum about New York, correct?

and real estate, and the general economy. here we were discussing people's decisions to buy. not necessarily in NY.

ar, nobody disputes that many hardworking people got caught by surprise but wouldn't you admit that many, many people in other parts of the country used their house as an ATM or bought houses they could never afford? I have little to no sympathy for those people.

Coming back to Manhattan, the social security network in the City is not all that bad. I am always fascinated to see all these SUVs parked outside the projects (in their own parking spots mind you)...

did you know that the median home purchased over the last couple of years is only half a room larger than the historic median? it is still a 3 bedroom, 1 bath.

i haven't been lurking around the projects to see what kind of vehicles are parked there, and i doubt you have as well. or maybe i'm reading you incorrectly and you have some real interest in the lives of the less fortunate?

I am not lurking around either, it's clearly visible from the FDR.