Immigration and other backgroud check

I am guessing that a criminal background check is legal, but the immigration status thing seems illegal in NYC (though not in most places):

http://www.nolo.com/legal-update/29214.html

BTW, if you wanna be nice and have a little fun American-style, tell them (in writing) to remove the immigration status question as it's illegal, and that you'll sue their asses if they don't. Check up on it in a month or two. If you wanna be mean and have a little fun American-style, sue first (ask questions later). You ain't a real American if you've never been in court, friend. Should make it a citizenship requirement, IMO ;).

Nada, stop pulling this poor guy's leg!

As a Realtor, I see two separate issues here: there are now Homeland Security screens that come up as part of a credit check, and it's legal for the landlords to ask you to go through those screenings, just as it's legal for them to ask you if they can check your credit.

If you choose not to provide that information, then yes, your application can be rejected.

Once you've gone through that hurdle, if you're not flagged by Homeland, then it's illegal for a NYC landlord to turn you down on the basis of your citizenship status.

Note that I am not a lawyer, and none of the above constitutes legal advice.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

"Nada, stop pulling this poor guy's leg!"

Uh-oh: I was full-serious in my first post and half-serious in my second post.

Seriously, though, the site I linked seems to indicate asking immigration status is illegal in NYC:

http://www.nolo.com/legal-update/29214.html
"... and New York City, which has prohibited landlords from inquiring as to their tenants' citizenship or immigration status for years (NYC Admin. Code § 8-107(5)(a))."

"Once you've gone through that hurdle, if you're not flagged by Homeland, then it's illegal for a NYC landlord to turn you down on the basis of your citizenship status."

However, if you ARE illegal, it's the landlord's duty as an American to then alert the proper authorities.

Matt: where do you eat out in NYC? Have you been to the kitchens and demanded to know the status of everyone back there? If you wanna not be a hypocrite, you should be a shut-in and not use any of the goods/services found in our fair city, most of which had illegal aliens help in their production.

Here's the law:

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=$$ADC8-107$$@TXADC08-107+&LIST=LAW+&BROWSER=EXPLORER+&TOKEN=18069840+&TARGET=VIEW

Here's the useful parts:

5. Housing accommodations, land, commercial space and lending
practices.
(a) Housing accommodations. It shall be an unlawful
discriminatory practice for the owner, lessor, lessee, sublessee,
assignee, or managing agent of, or other person having the right to
sell, rent or lease or approve the sale, rental or lease of a housing
accommodation, constructed or to be constructed, or an interest therein,
or any agent or employee thereof:
...
(3) To declare, print or circulate or cause to be declared, printed or
circulated any statement, advertisement or publication, or to use any
form of application for the purchase, rental or lease of such a housing
accommodation or an interest therein or to make any record or inquiry in
conjunction with the prospective purchase, rental or lease of such a
housing accommodation or an interest therein which expresses, directly
or indirectly, any limitation, specification or discrimination as to
race, creed, color, national origin, gender, age, disability, sexual
orientation, marital status, partnership status, or alienage or
citizenship status, or any lawful source of income, or whether children
are, may be, or would be residing with a person, or any intent to make
such limitation, specification or discrimination.

Now I ain't no lawyer either, but I can read English. And the English there seems to indicate that inquiring about immigration status is equally illegal as inquiring about their race when it comes to that part of the code.

"However, if you ARE illegal, it's the landlord's duty as an American to then alert the proper authorities."

Perhaps, but you need to break the law to find out.

Social experiment for the benefit of ukrguy in determining whether legal action is required for correcting issues like this vs. simple polite notification.

NYCMatt, now having read the actual law, would you ask about a tenant's immigration status in violation of the law? If you want the law changed, go for it, but as it stands would you knowingly violate it?

"NYCMatt, now having read the actual law, would you ask about a tenant's immigration status in violation of the law? If you want the law changed, go for it, but as it stands would you knowingly violate it?"

Not all laws are GOOD laws. What immediately comes to mind are the pre-1973 anti-abortion laws and laws prohibiting interracial marriage.

Illegals are draining the resources of our nation and our states. We have an obligation to stop this. Protecting them is not "good" for the country.

Does this make all the rushmories us citizens, as per one lawsuit requirement?

I hate to bring up the carpet/non-carpet thing, but Matt - are you advocating that one defy an ACTUAL law enshrined in statute but be blind-sheep-obedient to a co-op rule? Just wondering.

W67: who sez you have to be an 'Merican to sue?

me thinks the Social tonight will be quite convo festive....

very festive

"Not all laws are GOOD laws."

Yes, I understand that you disagree with this law (FTR, I'm not sure where I stand on it). My question to you, however, was whether you'd comply with it or whether you'd knowingly violate it.

"I hate to bring up the carpet/non-carpet thing, but Matt - are you advocating that one defy an ACTUAL law enshrined in statute but be blind-sheep-obedient to a co-op rule? Just wondering."

Well, the no-carpet rule actually makes sense, since breaking the rule infringes on the "quiet enjoyment" of the tenant beneath you.

This is a no-brainer.

"Does this make all the rushmories us citizens, as per one lawsuit requirement?"

Just qualified, in my book. However, they still need to be able to answer questions most Americans can't answer, like who their Congressman is. No sense in not trying to improve the population pool when we've got a choice, eh?

"Yes, I understand that you disagree with this law (FTR, I'm not sure where I stand on it). My question to you, however, was whether you'd comply with it or whether you'd knowingly violate it."

Knowingly violate it.

If they're legal, they should have nothing to hide. If they're illegal, just let them TRY to sue. I'll have the ICE agents waiting for them outside the courtroom.

"If they're legal, they should have nothing to hide. If they're illegal, just let them TRY to sue. I'll have the ICE agents waiting for them outside the courtroom."

And what if they're legal and trigger-happy to sue people who violate the law? That would be me, and hopefully ukrguy as well if he wants to be a real American -- one who understands the rule of law.

BTW, Matt, I totally get bad laws and the need for civil disobedience, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for a jury nullification on this one if I were you.

I'll take the risk, thanks.

Isn't it illegal to employ illegal aliens? I assume proving status is part of that process.

so matt, you'll start hunting for them immediately? to fulfill your perceived civic duty?

you're going to be REALLY popular in washington heights.

Well, if it frees up some nice rent-stabilized apartments for real Americans who need them, so much the better.

communiss

"I'll take the risk, thanks."

Rebel!!!!

without a cause

"Isn't it illegal to employ illegal aliens? I assume proving status is part of that process."

Yes. However, you cannot ask about "immigration status" but rather "do you have a legal right to work in the United States" or something akin to that line of questioning. You cannot ask about citizenship vs. resident alien vs. visa X vs. visa Y, I don't think.

However, according to NYC law (and not in most other places), you seem not to be able to ask for the purposes of tenancy.

Shouldn't there be a "do you have a legal right to live in the US" question?

Thank you everybody for the feedback. Perhaps I should share a few more details here. I work on Wall Street. Before hiring, employers in the industry send fingerprints through the FBI. Needless to say they also check up on the immigration status. There is also an annual SEC questionnaire and random drug tests.

For the record, I fully agree with the Homeland Security screen, but it does not check criminal/immigration status. It checks whether the person/entity is a prohibited one for the purpose of finacial dealings.

Interestingly, lower-end apartment landlords (who are more likely to have illegals as tenants) do not seem to do checks beyond financial (credit, employment, etc.) and Homeland Security. The higher end landlords want to know everything about you. If a peson earns the sort of income that qualifies him/her for an expensive apartment, there is, IMHO, a high probability they are here in compliance with applicable laws.

What annoys me is what I see as the unwarranted nosiness, even a degree a self-imposed enforcement function, that Manhattan landlords seem to take upon themselves. To me this is akin to the 'we reserve the right to inspect all packages' in a department store. I want to be clear -- I am against shoplifting and those caught doing it should be prosecuted. However, there is a thing called search and seisure and unless one is caught in the act, store employees have no authority in this matter.

Anyway, thank you everybody for the feedback, if you have other comments, will be glad to read them.

I'm with the landlord on this one. If you're on H1B visa, you are required to leave the country within 2 weeks after losing your job. Think about it from a landlord's perspective - an H1B guy works on Wall Street, rents a luxury condo, gets laid off, and is required by law to exit US two weeks later... Oops.

Personally, I wouldn't rent to an H1B either. Too risky. And I certainly wouldn't want to rent to an illegal alien. They broke the law already, I'd much rather NOT deal with criminals, thank you very much.

P.S. And the law that prohibits checking immigration status? Evil, stupid, and should be repealed.

Take it from me, immigration Visas are government accommodations to employers. Not landlords. So the employer should help with the housing situation and provide the guarantee. That's what I had asked for.

Agreed. Given the riskyness of renting to an H1B if things don't work out, the employer should provide additional guarantees to landlords, instead of shifting the burden.

In a way, it's similar to a situation with illegals - employers win, society loses. It's time to shift responsibility back where it belongs.

there are lots of immigrants in hoboken so tries it out there