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any scoop on pricing?
The main equity partners are the heirs of Stanley Stahl, who also did the Apple Bank condos, where one of the executors bought. They also own the old rental at 233 W 77th. The mortgage has been assigned by Royal Bank of Scotland to Apple Bank, also owned by said heirs, and the mortgage is guaranteed by one of the heirs' trusts. The construction manager is Cauldwell-Wingate, also owned by the heirs.
It's safe to say the fit-and-finish will be commensurate with the big money they paid for the land, and a fire-sale isn't likely.
check out laureatenyc.com on the registration page there is a price range scroll-down list.
Nwt the flans disappeared from the slce website -are they anywhere else?
Not that I've found, and I didn't keep a copy, so will just have to wait until the condo plans are filed with the city.
Humla, thanks. I'll put them here so we can look back later:
1-bedrooms from $1,670,000
2-bedrooms from $2,236,000
3-bedrooms from $3,083,000
4-bedrooms from $5,069,000
5+-bedrooms from $8,056,000
Penthouse pricing available upon request
I hear that they are looking to recruit staff from The Harrison; any thruth to this?
when is this building supposed to be finished? any information on sq footage of the apartments? it looks like its going to be nice, but i dont understand why its so difficut to get information on it
From the outside looks higher end (more expensive)than Harrison.
It's moving right along. The cast-stone cladding and the windows were up to 10th floor last weekend, and they've been working weekends on it.
The light color of the stone and window frames look good now, a sort of Hausmann-Paris feel, but the Harrison's darker colors may weather better. Both are better than the usual metallic look that gets dirty-looking quickly.
The architect had a typical plan on its website many months ago. IIRC the rooms were a good size. The larger apartments had very big laundry rooms, for some reason. One of the original developers, most of whose interest was sold out to Stahl after design was done, told me they were aiming for a level and quality of finish that was fitting to the neighborhood and the big money they paid for the land.
In the base, 10th floor's ceilings are about a foot higher than the rest.
NWT: 10' ceiling hts?
I can't tell. They're definitely higher than the building next door on Broadway. That's 1920s so maybe 9', so this is maybe 9'6" or 10'.
When the condo maps get filed there'll be a cross-section with slab-to-slab dimensions marked.
Looks like 10' ceilings. The Sponsor may have made an error of judgment here. Based on the SLCE floorplates, seems like you've got 3 large apartments per floor on the base. If all 3 of those four bedrooms are over $5m and the setbacks are even bigger and more per square foot, there are a whole hell of a lot of $5 million apartment to sell.
The Harrison had its share of 2 and 3 bedrooms. The Laureate mix seems heavily weighted towards bigger apartments.
Can they really find 40 or 50 buyers in the $5 million + range?
The market is softening already even with mortgage rates at record lows. And in the $5 million range, there are a lot of options. There's resales, the Apthorp, the Harrison sponsor still has a few, etc.
These apartments are not going to fly off the shelf. 535 West End should pick up the even bigger, even higher end and with so many $5 million + apartments, I'm not sure there is the demand.
Floorplan mix will be the Achilles heel. Looks like all 3 of those four bedrooms are all about the same size. That's a huge error. Too late now.
I predict a quick burst of a few sales then a long, hard slog as the market dies down in the winter and when spring 2011 shows no bounce, the bank will put some pressure on the Sponsor to get sales done and prices will come down.
Nice enough product but too many big, expensive apartments and pricing is sky high. Probably not a disaster but I guess closings end up 15% below whatever the initial offering prices are.
OldWest, where'd you find the plans? SLCE had the typical base plan on their site awhile back, but I can't find it anymore.
I agree with OldWest, obviously they can't sell a studio priced at $1mm, even in the boom days of 2007 a $1mm studio would be a hard push, so they start with one bedrooms at the price point of over $1.5mm. That is still very steep, don't know how many people are going to fork up this much $ these days to buy.
Germany, Sweden an Switzerland and Japan all have trade surpluses something we do not. Very different balance of payments. And Congress and the President are not promoting free trade and exports.
is this finally confirmation that Riversider is colluding with the columbias? say it ain't so.
Any guesses on when the will begin to market this building?
They aren't doing themselves any favors by not going on sale now. We're 7 weeks from Thanksgiving and the WSJ is talking about impending layoffs on Wall Street. This is a whole lot of expensive inventory.
How many (more) big, high-priced apartments can the UWS absorb?
I'm a little surprised they haven't gone on sale yet. Must be any day now.
Maybe they took a moment to re-think the ridiculous pricing they appear to want to go out with!
The other day they were working on a lower-floor corner unit, apparently to be a show apartment.
NWT: Do you think that they will be able to close higher psf than the recent sales in luxury buildings in the nabe --say The Harrison and The Rushmore which are both closing between $1300 - $1400 psf?
First, I was against the demolition of the Dakota Stables and the former garage building on Bway. While people can argue that those 2 were hardly arch. gems, what makes our streetscape so unique and pedestrian-friendly is the survival of lower rise prewar buildings. Tear 2 down, no big deal, but there will be a tipping point someday.
As for pricing, the best comp is the Harrison. The Rushmore is not really a neighborhood comp. Call it a city comp if you will. The prelim. layouts on the SLCE web were inferior to the Harrison (comparing 3beds to 3beds, 4s to 4s). The ceilings do not look impressive at 9ft. But the location is better than the Harrison - you have the specter of the Harrison's neigbhor being torn down for a possible future eyesore + the ugly wraparound of the Amsterdam Inn. And no loud firestation for those unlucky apts facing 77th. I'd say that it might close a little higher than the Harrison.
Supposedly they are asking $1800 psf. Labradorlove on wirednewyork once estimated that the developers break even at greater than $2000 psf.
I agree with Nyc10023. The Harrison is closest comp but also, imho, the building the soaked up the relative large apartment demand. With $1,400 psf pretty much the going price for those, I don't see how the Laureate is going to do well out of the gate starting at $1,800 psf.
Because of the location, half the apartments face north and interior courtyard which is much smaller than the Harrison's relatively open interior courtyard.
5% premium to Harrison? That would give them a solid $1,500 psf. The 25%+ premium is crazy stupid
confirmed that ceilings are 9 feet and not 10?
nyc10023, which neighbor to the Harrison is possibly going to be torn down? I live in the rental on the NW corner of 77th and Amsterdam (not going anywhere as far as I know). Are you talking about the Hertz building or the Chirping Chicken building???
and for what it's worth, I never hear the fire station and my windows front onto 77th. THe garbage collection every night at midnight at On The Ave, now that's another story.
drg: I spent a couple of nights at the Avenue 4 years ago, facing the fire station on 77th. Full brunt of fire engines in the middle of the night.
Hertz building. http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/jewish-service-agency-pays-45m-for-uws-garage
It looks like 9 feet from the street. Could be wrong.
In these pictures, based on bldg next door, looks like 10'. Nice.
The new website is up. Brochure and floorplans at http://www.laureatenyc.com/content/documents/floorplans/
Have they released pricing?
The Contact link still lists the prices from four months ago:
1-bedrooms from $1,670,000
2-bedrooms from $2,236,000
3-bedrooms from $3,083,000
4-bedrooms from $5,069,000
5+-bedrooms from $8,056,000
No other pricing info that I can see. Maybe they're just testing the waters at this point.
did they really put this building up without preselling any apartments? Why is it taking so long for them to actually open a sales office that is trying to sell apartments? Is the Harrison the best comp for this building or do people consider 535 wea as a comp for the larger apartemnts?
There's a story in today's paper about it.
I guess people don't want to buy from plans anymore.
I've heard that the laureate has already entered into several contracts. Seems like good momentum prior to opening their formal sales office. Does anyone have additional detail on how they've been doing vs their asking price?
why aren't there listings for this building. Aren't they currently offering apts for sale?
They're waiting until there's more to show. There's still a construction hoist, and they're finishing up inside. There's a finished apartment on the fourth-floor corner, I guess to show in the meantime.
From what I've been told, they are already selling, but not publicly. They also may never release the few 1BRs they have as they are being held for combination with the larger units, if desired.
If they are selling, wouldn't that be noted in ACRIS? Doesn't seem that they would postpone the close so as not to lose the sale in a tough RE atmosphere. I don't see closings, am I missing something?
The condo declaration hasn't been filed yet, so there's nothing to close. "Selling" in the sense of getting to contract, maybe.
I don't get all the "penthouses." Are there six different penthouse floors? Are they just getting cute with the designation?
What do people think of the pricing? At first blush, it looks high for the neighborhood, but perhaps the building is nice enough to attract what their asking from people who really want new construction? $2.5M for a 4 room apartment seems aggressive, though, when compared to what that could get you in one of the nice prewar buildings on WEA or RSD. Any insight into what sort of buyer ends up finding the premium worth it?
It's a beautiful building (from the outside), but it seems to be missing views.
UWSFamily, six floors of penthouses isn't bad. Beacon Court has so-called PHs on 50-55, Time Warner has several floors of PHs, Trump World Tower has at least three floors of them, and so on. A recent article somewhere described the marketing evolution from:
-- shack on roof, to
-- top floor with setback terraces, to
-- top floor identical to those below, to
-- the x highest floors.
I like the plans, but odd that not every bedroom has a bath. Several instances of two BRs sharing. Wish I could find something West81st once said about kids without a W2 can't complain.
Good big laundry rooms. They knew that for that money you shouldn't have to haul clothes somewhere else to fold and sort.
Interesting re: penthouses. Thanks.
I agree the plans are decent. Some odd ones, like having to walk through the dining room to get to the living room (e.g., PH5C). I wouldn't like that, and certainly not something Candela would have done, as the Laureate's marketing would suggest.
Has anybody actually visited the sales office yet? Can you visit the apartments not in contract, or are you restricted to the model?
There are no listings or floor plans for 1-bedroom apt, even though they seem to indicate that they exist. Any reason why the 1-bedroom units aren't showing up on their website?
I forgot to add that this building looks quite spectacular. I would seriously consider living in this part of town if I could live in this building. I think it's already a success, too, considering the number of units already in contract, as per StreetEasy. It also looks like 'friends and family' were given first dibs, which could explain the sheer number of units now in contract - 15 units. (The sponsor's website only came online today.)
Developers should really get back to quality construction and classic design. It sells, plain and simple. The glass tower look is waning, if not D.O.A. The Laureate harkens back to a more elegant and sophisticated time in Manhattan. Well done!
bignycfan - totally agree with you. I can't understand why the Time Warner builing still sells for such big $$$, though, can you? The glass tower look seems "out" for new construction, but Time Warner is still commanding the same money it always has.
bignycfan, the condo breakdown hasn't been filed with the city yet, but safe to say there're no one-bedrooms.
Time Warner has views. This building does not. And elegant time in Manhattan never included Broadway. The location isn't terrible but it isn't great either.
The initial spurt of sales will continue for awhile then it will die down in the summer. It is a lot of expensive apartments to sell
See my earlier post. There *are* technically one bedrooms - but they have all been held back to give the buyers of adjacent larger apartments dibs on combinations.
... or perhaps guest/servant/au-pair/extended-family units, a la 15 CPW?
OldWest: In the first quarter of the 20th century, I think Broadway rivaled CPW for elegance, with Ansonia, Dorilton, Apthorp and Belnord, among others. Even Emery Roth got his start on Broadway, although 250 West 82nd is a relatively modest effort.
W81: Many of the earlier CPW buildings were demolished and current CPW prewar stock is newer than Bway, esp. north of 79th.
NWT: Challenge q: which Candela floorplan have they pulled up on the Laureate website as a comparison to the Laureate floorplan.
I am not in love with the floorplans - some of the 3brs are all too reminiscent of typical 90s/00s "efficient" layouts. They did a better job at 15CPW. If I wanted to pay this kind of $, doesn't my kitchen deserve its own window? While not required by code, I like having at least one windowed bathroom.
West81: The Grand Concourse in the Bronx used to be pricey too.
I'm pretty sure those living in the Apthorp in the 1970s did not consider themselves to be in one of the top areas of NYC.
Yes, the neighborhood has changed dramatically since the days of Needle Park just a few blocks south. That, however, does not make it a sought after neighborhood. Middling, for sure. Sought after? Doubt it.
TWC has better views and better location (next to the park versus blocks away). Comparing the two is silly.
The Laureate is showing 15 units in contract. The next 15 units will take a bit but then it will be a long lull. That's my prediction. $2,400 per foot to live on Broadway with no views, little light -- for the Northern or back facing apartments -- and over-the-top "faux" luxury? Maybe. Maybe not.
Except that I shook my head at 15CPW (more fool me) prices and at Harrison prices.
nyc10023, I think it's a pre-WWI J.E.R. Carpenter. Maybe 550 Park. I'll check the book when I get home.
The Stahl people would be flattered to see us comparing this with 15CPW and TWC.
If you look at ppsf, it's close to preconstruction prices at both 15CPW (nonparkview) and TWC.
I can't find an exact match, but it's a standard Carpenter plan. 550, 950, 960 Park, 246 WEA, some on Fifth, etc. Maybe they drew an amalgam and said it was Candela's as being more recognizable.
NWT: Great call on Carpenter. It's nearly a mirror image of the "B" line at 550 Park, but not quite. Almost a perfect match for the "D" line at 1035 Fifth or the "west" unit at 960 Park.
What these lines have in common is a lack of corner frontage, which makes the comparison to Laureate's featured, corner line a bit apple-to-orangey.
If that floor plan really IS Carpenter, I wonder if they intentionally fudged the architect or just didn't know the difference.
NWT: right on the Carpenter. 3 East 85th, as originally built. 1913. Dimension are exactly the same (they didn't state foyer on the website) as found in Alpern (p. 232).
Ta-da! Good catch. I was thinking the left half of a two-per-floor and didn't check the side streets.
Ya gotta give it to the pros on this site who really, really know their stuff --- as opposed to those that just post tips. Thanks 81/23/nwt. Very informative --as always.
This is a great thread. Thanks everyone for your perspectives/comments.
In the last few days, four more in contract and price increases on another five. Makes it tough to be a prophet of doom for this one....
Has anyone been inside? Seen the model apartment??
Construction is still underway so it is hard to fully appreciate, but I've seen some units. Appliances/finishes are nice, layouts are reasonable. North-facing apts have zero view and no light as they look straight at the Harrison. Lobby is smallish, but fine. Two elevators, no service elevator. Amenities are less impressive than I expected.
Thanks bem9... that's good insight. I've called multiple times and left voice mails/emails and have yet to hear back from a salesperson to schedule a showing. Thinking about just stopping by in person unannounced and crossing my fingers that I can see something. *Frustrated.*
I very recently saw a number of apartments at The Laureate. Overall, I was not very impressed and will be quite surprised if these apartments sell for the $2,000+ per sq ft that they're asking......because they certainly don't deserve to, at least based on my knowledge of the market.
So, the lobby seems like it'll be "ok", but certainly nothing "special". Most importantly, the apartments didn't seem like they were unique in any way which would justify a higher price per sq ft. To start off with some positive comments, the bathrooms were quite nice with nice marble, flooring and fixtures. The kitchens were also nice (but small), with all the standard high end appliances, although I didn't care much for the stainless steel backsplash. The wood flooring was also nice. What really surprised me was that many of these apartments, asking $3,4,5+ million have NO direct light and NO views, except for windows 20 feet away in the building across the street. I was actually in total shock when I saw this. I realized this is Manhattan, but if you're paying $3 million + for an apartment, you should absolutely get direct sunlight. And some sort of view as well. To spend this kind of money without getting either is just plain stupid and foolish. Some other comments.....I thought the apartments seemed smaller than the square footage that they were quoting for the apartments. As many people are aware, everyone has their own "method" for calculating square footage, which is unfortunate. But, when I see an apartment being quoted at, say, 1,800 square feet and it really seems like 1,400 square feet, maybe 1,500 sq ft.....well, to me that's a pretty significant issue.
It's going to be interesting to see the prices that these apartments eventually sell for but, in my opinion, one has to be out of his/her mind to pay the prices they're asking for "nothing special" apartments with ZERO sunlight and views.
Thanks for the insight! Have been looking for some time in UWS. Certainly want to have good light, great lobby, updated bathroom and reasonably sized kitchen. Question is where are they to be found below $1800 if one excludes co-op? Perhaps a question of timing i.e. in future?
Try this query, adjusting for your own criteria: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sales/uws-manhattan/status:open%7Ctype:D1%7Cppsf:500-1800
Meanwhile, several more in contract here.
Love the interiors of these apartments. It looks like they're making pretty fast progress. Anybody know when they're going to begin closings?
It needs a Certificate of Occupancy (or just a Temporary one) first. There's an application in with the Department of Buildings. Then the city needs to split it into the separate tax lots. Don't know where they are with that.
31 in contract. If those close at asking, then the loans are paid off with an extra $70-odd million.
Are the 31 in contract at asking price or close to?
Can't tell until they close.
Any news on closings or TCO status?
TCO was issued last week.
BHS is chugging right along, with 43 out of 68 now in contract. (71 originally planned, less three combos. TCO includes a 69th, for super.)
Advertising looks to have been broker- rather than buyer-directed so far. E.g., nothing in NYT but some in TRD, IIRC.
The condo declaration and plans were filed today.
It's back to 71 apartments, including one for the super.
The slab-to-slab height is 10'9" (a few taller) and the concrete-inspection report says most slabs are 9", so figure a few inches less than 10' for ceiling height.
There're three one-bedrooms, the G-line on floors 9-11. They're cantilevered over space that on lower floors is a little courtyard.
Oops, make that three one-bedrooms for sale. There's a fourth, with one bath, that must be for the super.
Thanks for the info NWT. Does this mean that they could start allowing closing? Is there a link that you could send around re: condo declaration? Thanks again.
Right, closings can start now that lot #s have been assigned. For declaration, have ACRIS open in one window at http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/Coverpage.dll/index
Plans are at http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/ViewImage?Doc_ID=2011080200793002
I was wrong about count of one-bedrooms. There're three. Here's the breakdown:
Looks like closings have started
My clients move in date is the 24th. We are allowed to start Renovations next Friday. I believe they are closing next Wed.
I saw the 1brs. Really poor layout, IMHO. No soaking tub in master bath, just a smallish shower. And no view. Disappointing at the price point.
#6E closed on the 17th and was recorded today. It was for last-asking plus taxes, so no news.
Working in 7E right now, as a contractor I can say the building is one of my favorites as far as quality, at least so far. The building also to this point is run very well by the gm. Everything my clients asked the building to do has been done in a very timely manner
NWT, how can you tell the price that 6E closed for?
It's in ACRIS. At http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/PName, do a business-name search on "76th and Broadway"
Oldwest: What do you think now? Think there's enough momentum to close out the bldg?
for some reason streeteasy is not linking the closing records to the address. I see closings when I receive emails from SE, but they don't seem to appear on the '2150 Broadway' page.
If anyone can get the attention of Streeteasy tech team to fix that, it would be helpful.