Economists Say Slump Has Ended in the City

"back in that short frozen market period of late 08/early 09 one of you bears could have bought something from a desperate seller for about half the price of today."

So, Steve, you're saying you have data other Steve's 50% down prediction was actually right? Wow, is a bull finally admitting there was a crash?

... at the corner table in McDonald's, hunched over and muttering to herself, every once in a while getting a little louder and angrier, but still in her own little world. Soon enough she'll get a little too loud and disturbing and they'll call the men in white coats, again.

your and you're again. damn.

bjw, medians? when the only market that really seems to be doing well again is the high end?

ppsf, market by market, size of apartment. only way to go.

aboutready's weekend check list.

1. Talk to husband, he needs to step up the lawsuits.
2. Recommend very profitable companies to husband.--Apple, IBM, Coke, etc
3. Read Ben Franklin-- Try to improve, no more cursing.
4.Work at the soup kitchen. (those bastard republicans they never sacrifice or pay their fair share)
5.Go to the Yale get toghther(make fun of palin and beck)
6.Give old clothing to the help(always makes me feel better)

AR, no one said that corporate law partnerships can't be quite lucrative. its the effect the practice of law in our country has on other industries which destroys value. Here's the analogy: Organized crime - great for the mob bosses and a select few of their underlings, not so great for the businesses they extort from.

But I understand your defensiveness - no doubt if I were in your situation I would work hard to convince myself that my husband was doing "God's work" too.

and notice i say corporate law - there are several sectors within the practice of law which are wonderful and help to insure that our system of justice remain as fair as can reasonably be expected. Don't get the Sudan quip - I'm not the one bemoaning America - I love it here - its the greatest nation the world has ever seen, bar none. Even when we make understandable mistakes like the current administration and Congress, we know how to right the ship - thankfully we're just a few months away from correcting the latter.

Ok, I'll restate- thanks for speaking negatively about LIC when you live in . . . Peter Cooper Village! Still LOL!

ar- you still have it in your head that every comment is about you personally. I have never commented on your personal situation. You just seem so narcissistic that in your mind it is all about you. You just can't handle when people speak realistically about your comments and your menacing of these boards.

Somewhereelse miscalculates the numebers again. No shocker there.

> Ok, I'll restate- thanks for speaking negatively about LIC when you live in . . . Peter Cooper Village! Still
> LOL!

I'd take PCV over LIC in a sec...

large, that was actually kind of funny. but the husband works for some of the biggest corporations in the world. you'd approve, and he doesn't need my help finding work (but thanks). ben franklin was an interesting man, but i doubt he would be the source for moderation. more cursing, as long as done in context, is always a good thing, and franklin would likely agree.

have never gone to a yale reunion. but i did work in soup kitchens for a couple of years during the late '80's recession. was sad. most people didn't look like they were "on the dole." they looked bewildered.

make fun of palin and beck? why? i embrace them. they make life so much easier.

.. at the corner table in McDonald's, hunched over and muttering to herself, every once in a while getting a little louder and angrier, but still in her own little world. Soon enough she'll get a little too loud and disturbing and they'll call the men in white coats, again.
It's the P.C Gestapo that will be taking me away.

incredible how many bulls have "missed" this... from the other thread:

----
his is very cool. btw, if you run the median per category numbers for manhattan

Studio - 18%
1 bed - 20%
2 bed - 24%
3 bed - 40%
4 bed + - 61%
overall - 12%

goes to show the blend is deceiving folks like SteveF. All categories are for the most part 20% off or more.

and this was peak down:

Studio - 25%
1 bed - 21%
2 bed - 29%
3 bed - 48%
4 bed + - 90% (ok, probably not statistically significant)
overall - 9% (clearly shows the blend at work)

Intersting... that 1 beds have only bounced back 1%. Guess its not time for the balloons yet

lic, no i don't care. you mean nothing to me. really.

talk about my immaturatity, my rudeness, etc. nobody thinks those comments are personal. really.

you get a free pass. obviously. lic"comm"ent can say anything and it's not personal, it's objective.

"your menacing of these boards." wow. i'm a frightening person. i think you're ascribing too much power to my prose, licc, although maybe not because that might be personal? i don't know, do you think that applies to me personally, or just my comments? or are they the same? gee, licc, what's personal, and what's not?

"It's the P.C Gestapo that will be taking me away."

... yes, and you have bugs crawling under your skin. Don't worry, it'll all be better soon ...

and forgot these... here they are PPSF (median, % decline from peak).

All the numbers are through Q2 10.

Studio - 23%
1 bed - 27%
2 bed - 26%
3 bed - 29%
4 bed + - 36%
overall - 20%

"bjw, medians? when the only market that really seems to be doing well again is the high end?
ppsf, market by market, size of apartment. only way to go."

I'm not disagreeing that might be more useful for actual shopping purposes, but I wasn't the one to bring up medians. And that graph is a very good bird's eye view of what's actually happened to the overall market.

Studio - 18%
1 bed - 20%
2 bed - 24%
3 bed - 40%
4 bed + - 61%
overall - 12%

Isn't it a bit strange that the overall median is down less than ANY of the categories?

swe- so if current down is less than peak down, then we have.....rebounded from the low? Interesting how all the bears who insist we are in free fall keep "missing" that.

not to mention that if anecdotal reports play out, we'll have higher prices when the next quarterly reports come out.

bjw, i don't think you'd characterize me as disingenuous. and i can tell you that what i'm seeing in the comps RIGHT NOW from the spring frenzy is stunning even to me. i'm only halfway through the last month for midtown and the UES, i've finished upper manhattan. i wouldn't be surprised if downtown was a bit stronger, but right now i'm not even betting on that. i'll report after i look.

but i've looked at about 600 closed sales over the last three days. as i've been saying there are some pockets of strength, people with trophy properties who have some time seem to do ok, some established condos, particularly in midtown, are doing well. there's an outlier here and there. but the studio to moderate two bedroom market is getting FUCKING HAMMERED.

actually, i exaggerated. it would have been 600 if i had finished the ues and midtown. more like 350.

ar, thanks, that's actually quite helpful. You're the first I've seen to report this with any actual facts (unlike a certain fact-challenged poster who amazingly regurgitates just plain bad posts on multiple threads here). Any juicy examples to share?

bjw, that is odd. if only the larger units were outliers i could see it, but i don't see how it's possible with every category being greater than the median.

where is that from? and i wasn't trying to attack you about the medians. i just personally really hate that measurement.

ar, I didn't feel attacked, but thanks! That is from our esteemed colleague, swe. I hope the dripping sarcasm translated there, btw. It would certainly not be the first time he posted garbage.

bjw, just take a look at the comps thread for midtown. really, it's been like taking candy from a baby. and it's very different from the 2009 comps, which tended to reflect movement at the higher end. i've noticed movement at the lower end for about six months, but it really seems to be escalating in terms of consistency and volume (and, of course, price).

we shall see.

"if only the larger units were outliers i could see it, but i don't see how it's possible with every category being greater than the median."

No, its pretty simple, I think the math just isn't obvious. The blend just changed, and that has more impact than the actual price changes.

If apples cost $1, and oranges cost 50 cents. Both go down 10% in price. If you used to buy 70% oranges, and now you buy 70% apples, this is what happens...

Average price before - $.65. Current price $.85.

With medians, its just a question of adding more to the ends. Lets say everything is the same, and you add 20% more to the high end. It means your middle moves 10% (in terms of number of purchases) to the right. Depending on where it was, that can be a substantial jump

and, sorry, I left out the 10% price discount.... average price goes from .65 to .76, even though prices actually went down.

Point is, the blend creates an "increase" that wasn't there.

swe, can you post the source (link) for your numbers? First I have seen anything with ppsf and they seem a bit off based on what I have seen in the past.

"swe- so if current down is less than peak down, then we have.....rebounded from the low? Interesting how all the bears who insist we are in free fall keep "missing" that."

Uh, strawman much?

I don't insist it, and, in fact, I've noted the exact opposite. As have several other bears. Do you even read the threads?

Want to take that back?

> swe, can you post the source (link) for your numbers?

they're the miller samuel numbers on their site. The original discussion (the 1999 open houses thread) someone posted it, and thats where I got it from. Its a tool that lets you run it for any period.

jeez, is bjw still replying to every one of my posts? I just noticed that.

keep trollin!

juice, went and got it for you...

> SWE: build your own tables here:

> http://aggregate-data.millersamuel.com

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100723/ap_on_bi_ge/us_budget_deficit_2 The regime's plan working to perfection. Bankrupt America, create panic and a crisis, fundamentally transform America into a socialist state. And you all are worried about comps.

take back what- the fact that the mkt rebounded from '09 to '10 as I had predicted? or the fact that numerous bears on this site insist that prices are falling as we speak?

> Somewhereelse miscalculates the numebers again. No shocker there.

No, as usual, somewhereelse got it right, and dumb people just don't quite understand math. LICC, you need to retake your class on mean/median/mode. What's that, 3rd grade?

> ppsf, market by market, size of apartment. only way to go

AR, the current data does seem to make that very clear. Apples to apples, WOW is the story different. 18-61% down is a FAR different story than the (clearly misunderstood) overall medians are supposedly saying.

If SteveF could even understand it, it would blow his mind.

Gee Julia , how odd. Discussing real estate on a real estate board. are you unable to find a political board, to discuss the "regime"? When I was doing some on-line research about Rufus I found some web sites that ought to suit you.

or 23-36% down if you go by the PPSFs

larger apartments underperformed during the downturn. do you think you are a genius for unearthing this shattering fact? Its been well documented on this board. i don't quite understand your fascination.

swe, I agree. and if you capture the costs of improvements the tale is much more grim.

> swe, I agree. and if you capture the costs of improvements the tale is much more grim.

agreed.

I have to admit the numbers surprised me when I saw them; I didn't think things were that bad... but I might be more surprised by the level of vitriol of some of the bulls here, when I just posted numbers.

What didn't surprise me is that most of the biggest haters were the ones who made the biggest mistakes in interpreting the numbers. But, hell, I guess you had to be pretty numbers-averse to have been a bull in the first place.

"larger apartments underperformed during the downturn. do you think you are a genius for unearthing this shattering fact? Its been well documented on this board."

You might claim these was all known info, but then why did so many on just this thread flip out over it? It is certainly earth-shattering if one is mistakenly running around screaming "12.3!" thinking thats

Also, do you realize that you just inferred that 23% drops and beyond are "overperforming".

You're doing a great job of making the bear case.

lol

And thank you for displaying the facts which prove I was correct in prediction made last spring that the market would improve on a YoY basis. A prediction which was widely mocked, and yet, correct. I must admit, it feels good. bye for now

If your claim was a 1% bounce in one bedrooms after a 21% decline, yes, congratulations. Woo-hoo!

Of course, these bounce numbers are off BIGGER declines than were recognized. Meaning we are NOW lower than everyone thought were were last year. So, you can only take credit for the bounce if you also admit the bigger drop (meaning bears were even more right). So which would you like to choose?

on Monday, I'll see if I can find some time and do the max decline ppsf analysis as well.

Given the level of vitriol from the folks who didn't understand the first set of numbers, I figure this will be of similar interest.

"Point is, the blend creates an "increase" that wasn't there."

Sorry, what exactly are you claiming? That the median is lying? The median is what it is, and anyone using it should understand what it means. Having the breakdowns by apt type is certainly helpful, but those medians are no less susceptible to the kind of skew that medians are prone to. There are many ways to segment the market, unfortunately, so it's not quite as simple as you'd think.

"jeez, is bjw still replying to every one of my posts? I just noticed that."

Jesus, you're still singing this bs tune? It's a semi-clever way of avoiding having to answer for so much of the malarkey you post around these parts. But it ain't doing you no favors. Sorry.

"if one is mistakenly running around screaming "12.3!" thinking thats"

Was your thought so boring you fell asleep before you could finish writing it? I've posted 12.3 because that's what the data says. Noah posted that chart on his website, sorry it seems to bother you. I think the added detail that's been posted here is great, but that's what the board is for, no? Actually discussing real estate. Both sets of numbers tell different parts of the story. I like having all of them; you seem to just favor those that seem to go better with the same story you've been screaming about for months and months now. Nice.

From Miller Samuel:

...The median sales price of a Manhattan apartment was $899,000 in the second quarter, up 7.6% from $835,700 in the same period a year ago and up 3.6% from $868,000 in the prior quarter. Average sales price showed the same pattern, rising 9.1% to $1,432,712 in the second quarter from $1,312,920 in the prior year quarter and up 0.4% from $1,426,994 in the prior quarter. However, price per square foot generally remained stable over the year, slipping a nominal 0.5% to $1,051 per square foot in the second quarter from $1,056 per square foot in the prior year quarter, but rising 1.2% from $1,038 per square foot in the prior quarter.

wow, the amount of bull anger and lack of understanding continues to blow me away.

yes, LIC, the overall medians are one data point. But now we have the apples to apples medians available.... and they tell a very different story.

I'm sorry you don't understand the difference, but some of us do, and repeating the set of numbers that has not been demonstrated to be misleading isn't going to help you.

Apples to apples, wow, we're still down 20%. I was surprised to hear it, but, there it is, black and white (well, as long as folks get math, but clearly some posters don't).

""Actually, the medians by size and by ppsf are all still down 20% or more"

No, median price overall down 12.3%. It's quite clear: "

Ha, apparently its not! oh, bjw, you keep posting and posting, and yet you couldn't even understand this!

well, I guess it just goes to show.... how angry are these bulls!?!?

"Ha, apparently its not! oh, bjw, you keep posting and posting, and yet you couldn't even understand this!"

What do you mean it's not? It is - that's exactly what the data say. There is more to the story, obviously, and the segmentation analysis shows this, but you seem to be saying 12.3% is not true. It just is. The mix of apts that sold has drastically changed, and that needs to be said as well. But overall median price down 12.3%. Sorry.

"well, I guess it just goes to show.... how angry are these bulls!?!?"

Again, with this utter bullsh!t. I am simply not bullish on real estate. You're projecting your anger and making stuff up. How terribly like you. Anything actually interesting to add?

So somewhereelse is wrong, as usual, but says he isn't wrong because of a different statistic that does not contradict the one about which he is wrong. Sad.

"So somewhereelse is wrong, as usual, but says he isn't wrong because of a different statistic that does not contradict the one about which he is wrong. Sad."

What does that have to do with aboutready's daughter's hissy fit over the lack of color in her dress?

you've got the wrong kid, ulster. that wasn't mine.

nice that you've made the wrong comment dozens of times, though.

aboutready http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/21728-smoking?page=1
4 days ago
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my daughter had a hissy fit bc her dress didn't have enough colors.

awesome. my teen had a hissy fit because somehow a pair of her new tights (harrods annual sale, braved second day) got lost in transportation. but she apologized profusely within 20 minutes, admitted the absurdity. things don't change, but they can get better.

a new county to ignore. but it's good that you FINALLY got the right kids.

daughter has a hissy fit because her dress doesn't have enough colors
later the daughter has a hissy fit because her new tights got lost in transportation
then the grandfather dies ... crickets .... no hissy fit, no tears, no sadness, no support for daddy

... just like mommy

you still have the wrong child for the dress hissy fit. stoopid.

What about the dead father in law and the ice queen daughter in law?

you have no clue. i made a promise to se that i wouldn't engage the trolls. so i'm ceasing now. it's difficult not to engage when someone is so clearly so nasty. but not engage i will do. feel free to be as horrific as you always are. cheers.

huh?

Why would someone think that anyone on these boards would care which store they bought clothing? That is just obnoxious.

LICC, who cares?

In AR's quote above, she had to put in parentheses that she bought the clothes at "harrods". Why would someone have the desire to put that in the comment, like anyone would care which store it was? Seems pretentious to me.

licc, that seems like a personal opinion. who cares what you think?

there's your ego again. presuming people are interested in your opinions regarding others.

AR, does it not bother you at all that you are one of the most disliked persons with one of the worst reputations on the streeteasy boards? Does it not sink in that maybe you should reconsider your attitude towards others, and that you don't have what it takes to support all your arrogance?

licc, i think you have the two of us confused. YOU are one of the most disliked persons.

come to one of our gatherings, why don't you?

btw, why would you think i care about your opinion? enough with your personal views, licc.

From Crain's:

Some companies are even engaging in battles for hard-to-find tech talent, said Tom Silver, a senior vice president at Dice, a career website for technology and engineering professionals.

“Filling talent voids can be painful and expensive,” he said.

According to July’s Dice Report, New York-New Jersey was ranked No. 1 across top metro areas by the number of new job posts on the website, with more than 8,200 tech positions. That’s almost twice the number of postings for tech jobs in Silicon Valley (which came in at No. 3), and more than Chicago (No. 4), Los Angeles (No. 5) and Boston (No. 6) combined. Washington D.C.-Baltimore came in second place, with 7,400 posts.

“It’s the fifth straight month of companies posting more jobs on the site,” said Mr. Silver.

In Manhattan, the information technology job market showed remarkable strength during the second quarter, according to the Pace/SkillPROOF IT Index Report, also known as PSII. The index, which provides a snapshot of IT job openings at major firms, saw a 47% increase, from 74 to 110. It was the largest quarterly gain since the index began tracking data in 2004, according to the report.

Farrokh Hormozi, a professor of economics and public administration at Pace University, said the index behaves much like a leading economic indicator, in that the IT employment market rises and falls before the economy does. He sees the index growth as a sign that companies are feeling optimistic and are looking to “take advantage of the technological advancements.”

I'll repeat:

ar, the only ones on this board who ever have an issue with me are the few who consistentely make arrogant, obnoxious comments and who can't stand that I call them out on their mistakes, lies, hypocrisy and lack of civility.

in your dreams, licc.

aboutready
about 10 hours ago
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you have no clue. i made a promise to se that i wouldn't engage the trolls. so i'm ceasing now. it's difficult not to engage when someone is so clearly so nasty. but not engage i will do. feel free to be as horrific as you always are. cheers.

Seriously, LICcomm, you don't realize how many people dislike and/or feel sorry for you?

And in other news, LICcomm, have you been evaluated for autism?

I was wondering if aboutready went shopping at Harvey Nik's or Harrod's or Top Shop. So now I know.

alanhart
7 minutes ago
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"And in other news, LICcomm, have you been evaluated for autism?"

Upper West Side, Gramercy and Soho are doing OK.
(SEE GRAPH AFTER THE LINK HOP)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704862404575351131342551008.html

Of those showing increases, Murray Hill/Gramercy posted the biggest gain, with average prices rising 6.4% to $1,014.04 a square foot. The Financial District recorded the biggest decrease, with average prices falling 16.3% to $869.21.

http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/transactions-up-but-new-development-sales-still-struggling-according-to-manhattan-report-from-radar-logic

"So somewhereelse is wrong, as usual, but says he isn't wrong because of a different statistic that does not contradict the one about which he is wrong. Sad."

Ha, I love it!

LIC is STILL wrong, STILL doens't understand the stats, and he's lashing out!

sorry, honey, the stats are the stats. If you want to call me wrong, Miller Samuel is wrong. That you and other bull geniuses don't get the stats doesn't make them wrong.... just makes you dumb.

"ar, the only ones on this board who ever have an issue with me are the few who consistentely make arrogant, obnoxious comments and who can't stand that I call them out on their mistakes, lies, hypocrisy and lack of civility."

rotfl.

yourself?

weren't you called out on just that a couple days ago by some other folk?
The whole "LIC is disingeuous" thread.

lol.

And, on top of that, you're STILL hopping mad and screaming about the stats above, calling them wrong, when they're... right.

You just don't understand... as usual.

> licc, i think you have the two of us confused. YOU are one of the most disliked persons.

Agreed. Far, far, FAR more people complain about LICC than AR.

somewhereelse? what's this about?

What's what about?

> somewhereelse? what's this about

LICC is hopping mad, jumping up and down, calling my stats (which are just the Miller Samuel stats with the % applied) WRONG over and over again, and then pats himself on the back for "calling me out on the mistake".

Talk about someone scared sh*tless of data...

"Talk about someone scared sh*tless of data..."

The medians by apt type are indeed correct. But apparently, you're still denying the overall median is true? And I'd add you to the list of someone "scared sh*tless" of data, esp given your propensity for making sh*t up or outright lyings/posting bad info.

jesus, would you get an fing clue already? I did NOT deny the overall median. Thats a, well, yes... strawman.

Not only did I NOT say its not true, as it seems multiple have claimed... hell, its in the stats I LISTED that number myself and I commented on it...

> Studio - 18%
> 1 bed - 20%
> 2 bed - 24%
> 3 bed - 40%
> 4 bed + - 61%
> overall - 12%

from right there above, and I went into more detail on the other thread on it.
I didn't deny it, I even restated it!

Seriously, what the f is your (humping) problem? Are you so angry that you need to make things up about me?

;-)

oh jeez, I just fed the troll.

sorry about that, guys.

somewhereelse posts a lot of incoherent, rambling comments after others make him look like an idiot.

So the median is down only 12.3%, meaning sme was wrong in saying it was down 20%, but he points to a different statistic that does not contradict the 12.3% number and says he was not wrong.

It must hurt him to keep being reminded that he isn't nearly as smart as he had hoped he was.

Wow, impressive bs.

Here's what I wrote: "No, median price overall down 12.3%."
Here's what you wrote: "Ha, apparently its not!"

Hence, why I asked (it was a question, not an assertion, but your reading comprehension is sorely lacking) whether you were denying it or not. Thankfully, you're not. But seriously, every second word out of your mouth is a "strawman" accusation, which is amazing considering you a) don't really understand what that is, and b) engage in the practice more than nearly any poster here I can think of.

"oh jeez, I just fed the troll."

Did you just make yourself a snack? I don't see how that's relevant here, but thanks.

"somewhereelse posts a lot of incoherent, rambling comments after others make him look like an idiot."

the sad, sad part is how lic doesn't get he's talking about himself.

"So the median is down only 12.3%, meaning sme was wrong in saying it was down 20%,"
WRONG. I said the overall median was down... amazingly... 12.3%

thre is is!
> overall - 12%

from right up there!

"but he points to a different statistic that does not contradict the 12.3% number and says he was not wrong"

WRONG. Same statistic. Right there!

"It must hurt him to keep being reminded that he isn't nearly as smart as he had hoped he was."

Actually, idiots like you used to make me feel smarter, but now its like dunking on a 3 year old. Nothing gained, really.

But I do feel for you mental weaklings!

WHOOPS, licc wrong AGAIN?

> Riversider
> 33 minutes ago
> ignore this person
> report abuse somewhereelse? what's this about?

Now you guys see... LICC just doesn't understand what all those numbers mean!

> somewhereelse posts a lot of incoherent, rambling comments after others make him look like an idiot.

the irony, the irony....

sme likes to type a lot of words without saying anything of substance. I think he hopes it will help hide the fact that he was called out on being idiotic.

See bjw's post right above, that is very clear on how sme was very wrong (as usual).

I love it! LICC makes these bold claims and insults - that are more about himself than anyone - and can't even substantiate them himself! he can't come up with anything, so he has to parrot those of others!

The funny thing is, he picks one that is WRONG. BJW was wrong, and LICC just parroted it.

I said: "Actually, the medians by size and by ppsf are all still down 20% or more"

BTW said: "No, median price overall down 12.3%. It's quite clear: "

and I said... "Ha, apparently its not!"

as in its NOT clear. bjw made the mistake. I gave CORRECT medians by size and ppsf, and my assessment was correct, and bjw named a different stat that didn't contradict.

My assertion was correct, bjw and lic just didn't understand it... yet here is LIC hopping up and down, mad, because he wrong..... AGAIN.

Sorry, toots, I was right. The stats were right, including the 12.3% *I noted*, folks just couldn't comprehend.

> somewhereelse posts a lot of incoherent, rambling comments

LICC, just because you can't read the majority of things way above your grade level, like the New York Times and the phone book... doesn't make them incoherent.

Just makes you an idiot!

sorry, toots, you were wrong AGAIN!

and the best part is, jumping up and down mad claiming you are "calling out mistakes".

Only mistakes were... YOURS!

lol!

poor, poor licc, why are you so angry at the... data?!?!

and, again, here are the numbers that demonstrated my statement - "Actually, the medians by size and by ppsf are all still down 20% or more" - was correct, even though bjw and LIC didn't understand it (thinking somehow the overall median cancelled it out).

% down from peak, median by category:
Studio - 18%
1 bed - 20%
2 bed - 24%
3 bed - 40%
4 bed + - 61%

% down from peak by PPSF
Studio - 23%
1 bed - 27%
2 bed - 26%
3 bed - 29%
4 bed + - 36%

Sorry, LICC... I know the data scares you, but I was right.... and your screaming it wasn't just shows how little you know.

"as in its NOT clear. bjw made the mistake."

Fair enough, but what you were contradicting was itself not clear. I didn't make a mistake; I posted the same stat you did. Given how much you're kvetching about this, when you say LICC is "jumping up and down" it rings a little hollow, you know?

By the way, you totally disappeared from the tax abatement thread after lying about the tax info. What gives?

Why does LICcomm consistently abbreviate "somewhereelse" as "sme"? Is it an inside joke, or merely another education problem?