Best way to find apts that need gut renovations?

In need of TLC. Estate Condition. Original Condition. Bring your architect/decorator.

The problem stems from the fact that brokers, myself included, do not want to come out and say "this place needs to be gutted" because 1) you scare people away and 2) you want to be able to explain to them the level of work required. Some apartments really just need some love, and some need to be repaired.

If you only see view shots and a floorplan, that is a pretty good hint that work probably needs to be done. When in doubt, just get on the phone with the broker and ask them. I for one don't want to show an apartment to someone that absolutely does not want to renovate, so I let them know what they would be getting into.

Best of luck!

(Matthew Russell - Brown Harris Stevens)

Thanks Matthew - those are good points.

Its quite frustrating to find them if you are willing to do one. You need to set up a number of different searches with the words Matt mentioned above and then check all of them. The funny thing is that I think most buyers know whether or not they would be willing extensive renovations, and being tricked into going to see a place that needs them but doesn't list them is a waste of time for all parties involved. In my mind I feel like a place that *really* needed to be gutted would be better off advertising that fact. That way, I could find it more easily by searching for one thing.

The thing is, there are people that are looking to gut and rebuild with their own vision in mind, and those that are interested in turnkey with possibly a new paint job. There is really very little in between. So this is another area where brokers do themselves and their clients a dis-service by not being fully open about the state of an apartment and relying on code phrases that buyers may or may not be aware of. There is definitely a decent contingent of folks simply looking for a wreck to clean-up. Make their lives easier!!!

"Gut" means different things to different people. I had a listing of a 2-BR, 2-BA in Sutton Place that I listed as being in "estate condition" -- and about half the people who showed up to see it were surprised that they were looking at a six-figure renovation.

I also think that renovations can be very trying, and you shouldn't plan to do a gut unless you've done a smaller reno -- like redoing a kitchen or a bath - first. Otherwise you'll be likely to overspend on the reno, as well as botch basic procedures like dealing with the building's board or the city's DOB.

I think Matthew's point is a good one, that one quick phone call to the listing broker will answer a lot of your questions.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Ya, when you search, click the box "price per square foot" and enter the range $300 to $800 per square foot.
Along with the wrong side of the lower east side, you should find some TLC adoption candidates.

When looking for an estate sale to renovate, I set up a search of specific area and buildings I was interested in (I had narrowed it down pretty well), and meticulously reviewed listings as they came on the market. Photos often give it away: if furnished, fussy old-person furniture crammed into the place is a good indication it probably hasn't been fixed up in decades; an empty apartment with no shots of the kitchen or bathrooms; apts with kitchens or baths that look like they are out of 1970's or earlier (avocado appliances are tip offs). But in the end, it is footwork. You gotta go to a lot of open houses. And when you are an expert on the niche and a new estate comes on the market, you swoop in because while others fret over how much work the place will need, you know you are ready to do the work and what you are willing to pay.

IMO, the payoff is spectacular if you can pull off an effective gut reno.

@ kylewest: You are absolutely correct, and knowledge of similar apartments and what renos can cost will really help you know that you have found the right apartment when searching.

@ truthskr10: $300 to $800 is a bit low to search, and assuming the apartment is overpriced, you will miss out on a potential steal. When looking at gut renovations, your best bet is to find the apartmnet you like, figure out what it should cost and then offer that. You would think that people would be realistic with the prices when they are selling something that needs work, but most of the time you still see estates that are overpriced. It is always better to be the first bidder who lowballs the sellers than the third bidder after they have come down 20% over several months.

It can be tough to comp renos though. On our East Side listing, a couple of bidders offered based on the last recent comp minus the price of the renovation, not realizing that the last recent comp had itself been an estate sale.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Don't know, I think paying over $1000 per square foot for a gut reno is starting off on the wrong foot, regardless of most neighborhoods. Point taken on the "off ask" scenario and could expand to $1000 in the search pattern. But you will have lot more weeding out to do.Can start with the $400 to $800 and work your way up of course.

"It is always better to be the first bidder who lowballs the sellers than the third bidder after they have come down 20% over several months" reminds me of one of my fav quotes...
"First born, second wife, third broker."

Don't leave out conversion opportunities too.
A bit out of my league but one I love...
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/389700-condo-199-lafayette-street-little-italy-new-york