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One of StreetEasy's favorite white elephants returns to the market. Maybe a flip was in the cards all along; or perhaps the new owners have simply concluded that - even at half the original asking price - this high-maintenance land yacht was no bargain.
The asking price exudes chutzpah. It's very unlikely that the owners have solved any of the problems that existed two years ago. As far as I could tell, those problems were intractable, and the apartment was already over-renovated. As W67 (or Terrell Owens) might say, get your popcorn ready.
You nailed it with "land yacht": gorgeous but unlivable. Imagine them sitting around that tiny living space wondering WTF they're going to do with four ovens.
and the staircase that is the size of two studio apartments.
At the very least I would remove at least two ovens and install a single sideband, weatherfax and LCD radar display. How do they expect to get top dollar for a yacht without proper electronics?
The asking price goes beyond chutzpah. It exudes delusion. My popcorn is ready.
The maintence on this boat is intense!
You need a Captian and a crew of three.
Summer's gonna be a bitch with the price of fuel.
Maybe take the apartment up the sound to Martha's Vinyard for the summer.
Monaco is totally out.
what could i possibly add to this? i'll never understand this sad, bizarre apartment.
CORE has the listing, so their pretty photos have got to be worth at least $1 million. The possibility of an appearance on Selling New York is worth another million. I'd say it's underpriced.
$3M apt with a 14X15' living room? PAARRTEEE! or rather, party for 4.
If these owners were only willing to pay 1.6Million on a $2M asking, what makes them think someone will pay 3Million? I don't get it.
I can't find the pictures from CORE. I think it is only fair to wait until we get them before passing judgement as it may have undergone a renovation. Perhaps it got gilded in the intervening 18 months...
Yeah, maybe they added the partridge in the pear tree.
You have to see this place to understand.
I've seen the apt (last year).
Mtce isn't the problem, as E+W combos (a nice reversion back to the original 10-room N layout with pleasant views of the Ansonia on the higher floors) have the same mtce, and sell for far, far more.
The issue is the Frankensteinish combo. Poor layout, made worse by the huge staircase. A much more sensible duplexing (12W has been combined with the penthouse full-floor, and 11E/12E were done by the same people) would have put the staircase in the rear, behind the half-bath. 2nd floor would have 3 bedrooms with an additional second full bath. Downstairs would consist of LR, DR, kitch + library.
03/10/2011 Listed by CORE at $2,950,000.
06/13/2011 Price decreased by 3% to $2,850,000.
08/30/2011 Price decreased by 4% to $2,750,000.
10/04/2011 Price decreased by 2% to $2,699,000.
11/03/2011 Price decreased by 7% to $2,499,000.
01/09/2012 Price decreased by 4% to $2,399,000.
02/09/2012 Price decreased by 4% to $2,299,000.
04/26/2012 Price decreased by 2% to $2,249,000.
looks like it's in contract and they probably got a decent deal. although the maintenance and renovations needed may outweigh the purchase price.
Not sure if this was reported elsewhere but $2,030,000 was the marketing clearing price here. The near 30% in the aggregate that the price dropped would make it a prime candidate for the price chopping thread but I doubt anyone thought that close to $3MM is what this would trade for.
JoJo10- why would an apartment that was sold/bought for 1.6 million on 6/09 and traded again for 2 mill in 2012 be considered in the price chopping category? wouldn't you wish to make this 20-25%% return in 3 years? perhaps the seller knows something about marketing that you would never get?
Purchase price on 06/12/2009: $1,650,000
Plus 270 WEA flip tax (2%, customarily paid by buyer): $33,0000
Plus Mansion Tax (1%): $16,500
Basis with other closing costs: Over $1.7MM
Sale price on 08/15/2012: $2,030,000
Less commission (5-6%): $100-120,000
Less transfer taxes(1.825%): ~$37,000
Approximate net proceeds: Under $1.9MM
The gross gain appears to be less than 12% , over a period when the S&P was up about 60%. deductible costs and leverage make the calculation a bit more complicated, and it's possible that the flip tax was paid by the sellers on the first transaction and the buyers on the second. But I can't think of a scenario that would have made the 2009 purchase a good investment, especially on a risk-adjusted basis. And with maintenance of $6K, the apartment hasn't exactly been bargain lodging either.
Perhaps jojo10 knows something about investing that you would never get.
this is the way a flip is done. apt 6c bought for 1865000 sold for 2812000. my numbers might be a little off
west81- can you add to the calculation the tax benefits on the mortgage and the maintenance?
I have not claimed that it is the best flip but it should not be the winner of the the price chopping list. for me a price chopping is when you end up selling at a loss.You might define a chopper as any reduction in price regardless of a profit involved in the transaction. it's a matter of definition. Many owners ( who might get a bad advice) will ask for the sky and then come back to earth. It is a style of negotiation that you might disagree with but it exists. At the end this seller got 12% return in a period that the bank pays 0.5% on deposit and the stock market did very well. When you diversify your investments you put some in the market and some in RE. You might be the lucky one who had all his money in the market and made a killing but I doubt it....
realtime, let's add the tax benefit and then remove the additional cost of owning vs renting for 3 yrs, post tax benefit. i think that the 12% W81 is quoting is very generous. i would say 6-7% is more realistic. i'll take the 1% at the bank then 2% of heavy leverage.
And let's not forget 30yr fixed went from 6% to an absurd 2.75%. An outstanding bond that doesn't 'appreciate' based on a 225bps decrease in interest is not a bond w67 wants to hold. But go on!!!!!! Buy more RE! It's always miller time! It's a home! You can't time these things! Manhattan market is NOT knowable! Something will always wants a beautiful 6 fl walkup apt with open views! The Chinese are coming! The Russians are coming! What else are you gonna invest in?
And my favorite, 'it's near the water! Property on the water always appreciates!'
Followed by my 2nd favorite from johnmiller 'anything next to Central Park over the last 20yrs has been a great great investment!' . Cause as we all know a block away, prices decreased over the last 20yrs!!!! Hahahjanahaaaaaa. Oh lord. Have you given me theses financial ninnies to keep me in stitches? Are all theses re borkers just so that I may have some fun while I have a physical presence on this planet?