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Anyone care to venture an estimate (guess) on how much of a valuation discount a property / townhouse might get hit with when it boarders on a school / school playground?
Do you think this would be different if the school was an elementary vs. high school? What about public school vs. private school?
I guess that amount could be approx 10%-15%, but have no idea...
Any "discount" would already be reflected in the asking price.
Nice try, though.
Yea, I think we all get that the discount could be reflected in asking price, NYC Matt.
But in comparing two similar properties, one next two a school and the other not next two a school, what do you think would be the valuation discount be for the one next to the school?
Sorry if I hit on a nerve, Matt. If you are selling your house which is right next to a high school, I'm sure you will get "asking" which I'm sure already reflect the school discount...
No need to be arrorgant Pawn. Sounds like your looking at a property outside your price range and are trying to justify a lower price so that you can afford it.
I'm looking at something that seems like a good deal, but maybe its over priced due to the location... It is in within my price range, but could be expensive, if there should be a massive school discount.
There is no such thing as a "massive school discount." If you don't like noise, then don't buy in NYC. Move to the suburbs. Some peopel might prefer to ive near a school because they know it will be quiet at night after schoool closes.
interesting perspective. i hope that is true, but i suspect there is a bit of a discount.
I thought your question was interesting and legitimate (and would be interested in sincere responses). However, to be honest, I've been following NYC RE for many years, and have never heard of a school discount.
It sounds to me as if OP has already made up his or her mind and is not interested in hearing other opinions. I saw this thread last night and was so turned off by the OP's attitude/arrogance that I didn't bother to answer. Since newbuyer would like a sincere response, however, I'll give you one.
We lived across from a NYC DOE elementary school for 20 years. We did not have problems with the school or DOE the first 15 years we lived there. We moved last year because the Bloomberg Era DOE has changed the system so that it is now torture to live near a school.
I'm not sure what you mean by a "school discount." If you are asking if the value of real estate proximate to public schools is lower, the answer is that it was always slightly lower (2-5%) but has become much more so recently. This is true for several reasons. The old model of school as we remember it is gone. Until recently, most children went to neighborhood schools and walked to school. The schools opened for business at 8:30 AM and closed at 3 PM. Teachers and principals arrived close to opening time and left at closing time. There was a flurry of pedestrian activity twice a day and that was it. The old Board of Education had some sensitivity towards the surrounding community and, if the school or principal did something that was obnoxious to the community, it could be worked out.
None of these things are true anymore. Principals and teachers arrive between 6 AM and 7 AM. They shout to each other up and down the street and blast rap music from their car radios. More than half the children at the school are from outside the neighborhood. Most are driven to school by their parents, who are of the "entitled generation," and the rest arrive on a large number of school buses. The parents have told me that their children are the only important things in life and everyone must give way for them. Just one example: two parent cars were parked in our neighbor's driveway without permission -- a daily occurrence -- and REFUSED TO MOVE when his wife had a stroke, so the ambulance couldn't pull up to take her to the emergency room. They yelled at my neighbor and said, and I quote, "Who do you think you are? Too bad for you that you moved across the street from a school, we need to park here to get our kids and we're not moving." Also, the parents and their little tykes are total slobs and throw all kinds of crap in the street that the residents have to pick up. It doesn't matter how many trash casn DOS has put out for them. The alternative to picking up their garbage is getting a Sanitation summons.
The new DOE attitude is that they are in charge of your neighborhood. They can do whatever they want (sounds like the parents, eh?). You can talk to them until you are blue in the face but it makes no difference. The only way to get someone with decision-making power at DOE to pay attention to your complaints now is to sue them. Our civic association has sued DOE to get the principal to lock the schoolyard at night (it took 4 years but no more drug dealers and gang fights every night). Now they've made useless little parks in the schoolyards at a tremendous cost to taxpayers, so we are seeing drug deals again on the weekends in the schoolyard. Because of these schoolyard parks, you can no longer expect quiet on the weekends because teenagers are playing basketball from sunup to sundown.
We also sued DOE for the principal's defamatory statements and some big lies she told to our city council member and others. Although we documented everything and both cases settled, the principal is still there. Dont even bother trying to point out that a principal is a pathological liar and Captain Queeg in skirts. DOE is not interested in what the community thinks. They know everything.
Several years ago, when the school started opening at 6 AM, we began to have truck deliveries at 6 AM. The drivers would idle their motors and leave the refrigeration units on for 30-45 minutes. Once again, we were told by DOE that we had no right to complain about this new practice. What we did to make it stop was to contact the food companies and tell them we would organize a community boycott of their products. Now they deliver after 9 AM and they shut off the truck motors.
It is not necessarily quieter at night, nor is it quieter during the summer. There are often school activities in the evenings and sometimes die Kinder go on trips and come home late at night. You'll have 50 parent cars idling under your window for an hour, waiting for the bus.
If you're fortunate, your neighborhood school will not be open for summer school. Even if that is the case, though, summer is heavy construction season for DOE. With the Dinkins and Giuliani agencies, we were able to work out compromises about work times and there was consideration for the residents of the community. Not so with this crowd. It's their way or the highway. We've had heavy construction from 6 AM until 11 PM on weekdays and all day on weekends. They don't recognize that they are breaking the noise laws, nor do they care. We've had weeks at a time in the summer when we couldn't enjoy our porches and backyards because of the heavy dust settling on everything. Some contractors have set up Port-o-Sans on my neighbors' lawns. You would think that complaints from our city council member and state senator would cut some ice, but not with the Bloomberg DOE.
There ia a public high school five blocks from where we used to live. NYC DOE high schools are open from before 7 AM until after 9 PM almost every day. The kids start arriving at 7 AM, there are kids there until 4 PM and they hang out all over the neighborhood. There are after-school activities and then the facilities are rented out most weeknights to community groups. The high school athletic field is used 7 days a week. On weekends during game season, hundreds of family and friends will come from outside the neighborhood (in their cars) and stay all afternoon.
I haven't gotten to all the items on the list of why you should not buy near a public school, but the question is about comparable value. When we sold our house last year, it was valued at about 15% lower then comparable properties in the area. Your "discount" for living next to a high school may be slightly higher.
It's absolutely not worth buying near a school, even with the "discount". You may think your situation will be different but, having worked with civic groups across the city (including Manhattan) I can tell you that though the circumstances at each school may be slightly different, the living experience will not be better. But sometimes you can't protect idiots from themselves. Good luck.
sounds like a blood-bath. i appreciate your feedback.
General Ogoun, which public school was it?
maly, I'm sorry. I can't say because some of the civic members still have kids in the school. The witch is quite vindictive. It's not in Manhattan, though.
It just sounded like a story I heard from friends; is the school in District 13 in Brooklyn?
The last time I was almost ready to bid on a place, I found out that the place was along the main path from the nearest train station to a high school. I changed my mind. No amount of discount is worth it.
> NYC DOE high schools are open from before 7 AM until after 9 PM almost every day. The kids start arriving at 7 AM, there are kids there until 4 PM and they hang out all over the neighborhood.
omg society is making full-time workers out of kids, worse when considering how little they learn
Making them ready for our "office space" economy? Put in some face time, never mind about thinking.
Not District 13 in Brooklyn. Sad that it sounds like someone else's story, isn't it? It's like that everywhere now.
"omg society is making full-time workers out of kids, worse when considering how little they learn"
So true. I hate to see those little children on the buses in the dark morning in the winter, ocming home at night in the dark. Our neighbors' kids (in the old neighborhood), who are 7 and 10, hop on the school bus at 6:45 AM even though they live half a block from the elementary school. That's because the principal "ocunseled them out" of her school because they didn't get high enough test scores for her to keep her job.
I didn't tell some of our more gruesome stories because they are identifiable. It is a pity and a shame what our mayor has done to the school system. It will take years and millions to fix it when he's finally gone.
Aren't prawns what the British call shrimp?
What do you think the 'school discount' is at the Azure?
The entrance to the middle school is close to the Azure entrance. It's probably no big deal. Middle school kids are so quiet and polite.
I wonder how this will play out at the new Gehry building in the Financial District - high rents, school underneath.
I can weigh in as I bought and live downtown right next door to a public elementary school in Manhattan (K-6). It doesnt affect us in the least. There are actually pluses too: little to no traffic on our street, and honestly because of the teachers and parents always around, I can't say that I have EVER seen "unsavory" characters on the block. There is kind of a wholesome vibe if you will and very nice to live around.
Very difficult to quantify because you have to find a comp that would be exactly the same but for the school.
Off the top of my head:
Bldgs that don't seem to have suffered at all from proximity to school: 200WEA, 78th St. TH co-ops and THs by P.S. 87. Bldgs that may have suffered somewhat: 125W76, THs across from IS44 yard (though 108W76 is going to be one hella SFR when it's done, not that the owner will sell), THs on 75th bet. RSD & WEA. Bldgs worth more as a result of schools: CGPS neighboring THs (bcs the school is gobbling them up at a premium). On the UWS, I don't think the Calhoun School has dented prices on WEA or by its other bldg on 74th? 75th?
Thanks Y'all. I have concluded that the school discount is likely in the area of 5% to 10%, with potential outliers in the 15%-range for poorly run schools in Harlem, Brooklyn, Queens, etc.
Interestingly, there could be a school premium, for being close (but not very close) to a good school.
I suggest you check it out yourself on a warm spring day. Show up and hang out a an hour or so around start and dismissal time.
Public schools and students vary a great deal.