New York City
Northern New Jersey
Search Better With
Shop for a Broker
Open House Planner
Saved Listings & Folders
Stats and Figures
Manhattan Condo Market Index
Beginner buyer here...
My girlfriend and I make combined about $400k a year. Is it possible to stay in Manhattan comfortably on this income and live somewhere below Harlem if we want to have a family (say 2 kids). Or am I destined to be living somewhere in Jersey City or doing the dreaded commute from a suburb.....?
I know it's a pretty open ended question, but I'm curious of people's opinions. Thanks!
Live well below your means now and save tons of cash for the next few years (or longer). If you do this, you won't need to consider J.C. or a suburb later on. It's all about balancing your current wants/needs with your projected future wants/needs.
I'd also add in if your planning on sending your kids to public or private as I am going through that right now. Good luck..Leslie
If and when you have children, the way you look at absolutely everything will change. It is entirely possible you might even want to live elsewhere. In the meantime, yes, of course it is possible to stay. Thousands do it every year; but at what cost (and not just financial)? Only you can decide what is worth what.
Still, I can offer my true tale of two brothers: My brother has chosen to always stay in Manhattan. He lives in 500 sq. ft. with his wife and 8-yr-old daughter in a 4th floor walkup, and has for years. He rents still, and has no assets, and lives a little bit like an immigrant family from the L.E.S. in the early 20th century. I chose to live in NJ with my wife and sons. We love it and its yin to the Manhattan yang. We now completely own our home in NJ where the kids attend a wonderful public school, and also own a nice apartment in Manhattan as well. My brother and I are both educators, and both of our wives out-earn us considerably--just to show the similarities to our situations otherwise.
If you both work at that income, no problem.
Dig in, save, buy.
Depends on how much space you think you need. I know plenty of people who live in Manhattan on far less, but if you think you need three bedrooms and 1800 square feet to be "comfortable", it will be tough.
DG Neary Realty
wow, you have a GF and you are thinking about buying in Manhattan now?. My advice.. RENT, RENT, RENT.. If you and your GF want 2 kids eventually, you will want to a bigger apartment. Transaction costs are way too high. First, you will probably live a one bed, then a two BR, then a three..
My advice, get married first, rent a 1 bed. if you are still married after 2 years and want a kid.. by all means have one, but still don't buy in Manhattan-- why? because you will want a bigger apartment.. and you will be thinking about schools... And transaction costs are still too high... plus you will want another kid soon and another bigger apartment.. By then, you may want a big house in the burbs with a white picket fence... RENT, RENT, RENT== it is soo much cheaper and easier!!!
about 2 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse I'd also add in if your planning on sending your kids to public or private as I am going through that right now. Good luck..Leslie
Leslie, did I read in another thread that your oldest is only in kindergarten? why don't you relax a little regarding the private or public school thing? it seems you carry a lot of anxiety on this one topic, and given there are good options either way, why sweat it so much?
6 minutes ago
>My advice, get married first, rent a 1 bed. if you are still married after 2 years
What? Did you just suggest to the OP the possibility of him getting a divorce?
You and your other have generous incomes, but do you have a down payment?
You don't really have the "buy" option until you have access to a nice pile of ready money that can serve as your down payment.
Why don't you and the GF agree to start a five-year savings plan? With those incomes you should each be able to sock away something significant each year. Say -- each of you can save $20k per year, or 10% of your gross annual income. After five years you'll have $200k, which can serve as your down payment on a nice 2-bed on the upper west side.
If that's what you want. After five years go by, you'll have changed a bit, and learned a bit. But it will be nice to have the option to buy at that time, if you still want it.
GG, save just $20K a year on that income? That's pathetic IMO.
genghistm, here's what I think.
Your after-tax income is $250K. You should be saving $50K of that towards retirement. Period.
Now if you have 2 kids, stash away another $20K a year for college once they are born.
That leaves you with $180K for living expenses. About half of this will go to housing. Rent, you'll live comfortably in 1800 sq ft. Buy, you'll be a bit squeezed in 1350 sq ft. Your choice, but it'll cost you $90K a year either way if you properly account for everything.
That leaves you with $90K spending money. That is a very large sum, plenty for a family of 4 to live on comfortably. Unless you do private school, in which case you'll be miserable and squeezed.
So I think it comes down to whether you think private school is a requirement.
"My advice.. RENT, RENT, RENT.."
As an owner and small time landlord in Manhattan.. I agree.
Please follow this advice, helps me out in the long run, thanks.
if she's only your girlfriend, don't buy together unless you know for sure you are both intentionally staying unmarried to lower your tax burden.
If you're engaged, its ok..otherwise things happen, things change, expectations come out and joint real-estate can be a mess if there is a split.
The other thing you need to consider is whether you'll both be working once you have two kids. I doubt you have any visibility into that at this point. Your income level is also probably not that certain -- up or down.
The other thing about "comfortable" to me is flexibility. I spend a modest fraction of my income, but the aggregate amount is still very large sum. The thing that gives me peace of mind is that I can shut it down by some huge factor (like 2x) without caring. Or I can continue spending at that large sum with a "minimal" income indefinitely, buffered by savings & income from those savings. In effect, the spending level is being driven by a worst-case outlook and an attitude of "Well, maybe it's OK to spend an amount commesurate with a worst-case outlook because I'm going to be dead soon enough".
The problem with the spending / saving plan I outlined above is that it is too tight IMO. Now I get that most people do not have income / savings that afford them the large safety / flexibility buffers that I am fortunate enough to have. But at $400K, you are the 1%. Living a life that has you locked into spending such a large amount is not "comfortable" IMO unless you have contingency plans.
geng: you are comfortable living in Manhattan now. (Do you live with your girlfriend now?)
Just rent until you get engaged (how long have you been a couple?)
Get a 5-year savings plan. Save up and if you break up during that time, you will have at least saved some money.
Never do anything with the thought that it's o.k. to do because you will be dead soon enough.
You will live long enough to regret it and the time will seem like an eternity.
"You will live long enough to regret it and the time will seem like an eternity."
I'm curious about this statement as it seems you have a specific type of thing in mind. Would you be willing to share?
My statement came from a personal tendency towards frugality. You know the type of stuff I'd regret? Dying old with piles of money, but not having taken my parents & parent-in-laws (who lived modest lifes & sacriiced for their kids) on nice trips back in my youth when I had piles of money and it was very likely that I'd die with piles more of money.
ahhh yes, learning to relax about school. Finding that I'm always thinking 10 years ahead isn't always necessary...old habits..hard to break..but trying. Good luck...Genghistm!
You can easily live in Manhattan if you are not planning to send your kids in private school.
"As an owner and small time landlord in Manhattan.. I agree.
Please follow this advice, helps me out in the long run, thanks."
As an owner and a small time landlord in Manhattan-- I ask, how is that been working out for you the past few years?
by the tone of it.. "helps me out on the long run," so like not so good.... And "in the long run. we are all dead"..
Thank you all for your responses!
Currently, we have about $200k in cash and about $70k in retirement. I am definitely not looking to buy at this exact moment, but I was just really curious what people thought the minimum you had to earn to raise a family in Manhattan.
As I look through the sales listings, it's hard to find anything less than $2M for a nice size 3 bedroom apartment. I would think that kind of mortgage would be tough (or impossible) on people like us making what we do....
Inonada....where exactly can you rent 1,800 sq ft for 7.5k a month? I live in BPC now and a small 3 bedroom (1,200 sq ft) go for about 10k. (sigh...I do remember when BPC was cheap, how is it more expensive than most areas now?!)
I do agree with the posts it would make sense to rent and save now. I am just looking towards the future and wonder even if I do that is it possible? And when I say "comfortably" I mean I am still putting money in the bank and not spending every dime I make on my mortgage payment.
I am a big proponent of public schools so I would have no problem sending my kids there (obviously, only if I live in an area with good public schools).
Thanks again for all the responses!
>Inonada....where exactly can you rent 1,800 sq ft for 7.5k a month?
Get our your pen and paper and be prepared to make a "shitlist"! (also be prepared to move every 2-3 years).
Here's an example of a listing in that neck of the woods (Fidi) that was the subject of a heated debate last month:
Note the $8350 final asking rent for 2150 sq ft plus 1145 sq fr wrap terrace. Maybe doesn't fit the bill exactly for what you are looking for, but gives you a sense for apts in the range of $2-2.5M renting in that ballpark.
Note that some were ardently arguing that was an $11K apt before the drop clariied things for all.
Note that some were ardently arguing that the apartment was completely unrented until we were told otherwise and then suddenly the topic changed.
Are you both certain you'll not be laid off? I'm a doctor but my husband is a banker so we generally assume we can have one income at any moment...and plan accordingly.
I would 2nd what alotof poeple already said. Additionally, especially considering your income, you should have a lot more in retirement than $70k.
Eliz...I don't think anything is "certain", but our jobs are fairly stable. We're not on Wall Street and our year end bonuses do not fluctuate largely from year to year (although the bonuses can account for about 1/3 of total income).
But is your relationship stable though? That is far more important in this decision than job stability. I would say you should plan based on your own income and no one else's. Buy what you can afford and not what you can afford with help of your GF. If you get married or into a stable long-term relationship then equation is different.
Here's 2000 sq ft in just about the best block in the Village going for $7500:
Apt has a couple of obvious downsides, but given the location and condition a far cry from $10K for 1200 sq ft in BPC.
Hope you like carrying that baby up the stairs.
Also if you want this apartment, you'll have to convince the current tenants to leave.
Get the "shitlist" ready.
I don't know much about BPC, but here's a nice 1700 sq ft 3BR/3BA with river views that sold for $2M last year as a "fire sale" w/ a very-high $4K in monthlies:
Seems like it was bought by an investor as it's been on the market for rent since it was sold last year, at prices ranging from $10K to $8K to $10K w/ free month and/or no-fee:
Maybe you could have picked it up at $8K, I dunno.
You and your SO make plenty of money to live in Manhattan, but probably not enough to buy now and not be completely locked in. You're at a point where your future may change significantly- you both may make more money, or one of you may not work. Real estate may go up or down. You may have children. My advice is to rent a place that is comfortable, but not at the top of your budget, and save a significant portion of your income. My SO and I did that and it has worked out very well. We have quite a bit saved for a down payment. We're in no rush to buy, but after getting good salary increases the past few years, we're comfortable either buying or upgrading where we rent. The places we would have bought a few years ago would no longer fit the bill long term, so we're really glad we held off.
to op, there are always places like this available in a good school district. Very convenient but loud due to being on Broadway and needs some updating ( which for basic rental quality update could be even $100K). MBR can be split into two and 3rd bedroom may be interior if the building next door builds up. I bet you can negotiate to $1.5mm. WIth 400k income and you can easily carry that but you will have to save a lot for a few years - $100k per year. You will need to have 25% downpayment + reno cost + 1 year of your full living expenses as reserve. $600K or so. This is why buying only makes sense if you have good amount of savings.
nada, I looked at 10th st place with a friend. It is barely 1600 sq ft and walk-up. For people with kids, that is mostly a no-no. Location is obviously hard to beat.
The OP should be re-written "Can I stay in Manhattan as a renter vs. owner post the Greatest RE bubble?"
1965 Broadway. 20H... a unit near and dear to me...
Previous Sale recorded for $931,500.
Previous Sale recorded for $1,685,000.
Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $2,995,000.
Prudential Elliman Listing sold.
Previous Sale recorded for $2,875,000.
Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $2,785,000.
Note the $600k jump and then the $1MM jump.. and note 2012 seller after 5 yrs of "owning" (8% transaction cost, $100K off the bat loss, plus $2,700*60 monthlies).. plus the $300K reno.....
That's called taking a YOKE of a mortgage onto yourself and SO and passing along $2MM in bubble profits to prior "home-sitters."
Allah bless the "owners" of 20H.. it does not end well for them.
1965 Broadway #25D
05/08/1997 Previous Sale recorded for $1,242,500.
05/27/1999 Previous Sale recorded for $1,600,000.
12/23/2003 Previous Sale recorded for $3,000,000.
09/16/2011 Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $5,995,000.
10/17/2011 Listing is no longer available.
11/07/2011 Re-listed by Brown Harris Stevens.
11/16/2011 Listing entered contract.
01/13/2012 Listing sold.
01/30/2012 Sale recorded for $5,500,000
Things to think about with kids besides public vs. private school: Space to change diapers, a crib, a stroller, a case of diapers, a tricycle, a high chair, a little quiet for a nap (or homework, or art projects, or puzzles), toys, books, a yard to play in.....the list goes on....and on. What if you have twins? (We did.)
When we were in your situation, we finally just gave up and moved to Connecticut. Great public schools, big backyard, space galore, halfway reasonable prices. Not the answer you're looking for, I know.
Now kids are grown, we saved a ton of money over the years, and now we have a kick-ass apartment in Manhattan. Time goes fast, but ahhh, life is good. :)
Sorry OP, I took this thread down memory lane. Kids will be the light of your life, but PLAN ACCORDINGLY, and expect the unexpected.
300_mercer, I like 722 Broadway place: great old-school character. I think anyone who tries to "transform into a dramatic contemporary masterpiece" should be shot.
1) The broker calls it "prime Central Village". WTF? It seems every idiot in any corner of anything remotely close to the Village calls it "prime Village". I'm sorry, but Broadway is not "prime Village". West 10th St is "prime Village". Broadway is the absolute armpit of the Village: I don't think one could find a worse location in the Village.
2) The light here is not good. It is second-floor railroad apt, which is always a big negative. The side-windows are an illusion as the McDonald's next door forces them to be placed at above-human height. I think the way they have the style of the apt, the lack of light is well-accommodated. Make it a "contemporary masterpiece" and it won't work as well IMO.
3) McDonald's next door. Could be a positive if you like the waft of french fries.
4) Would you really want to raise kids here? On Broadway, lack of light, lack of outdoor space, etc.
"nada, I looked at 10th st place with a friend. It is barely 1600 sq ft and walk-up. For people with kids, that is mostly a no-no. Location is obviously hard to beat."
Isn't the building 18x64? Two floors => 2304 sq ft. You think a full third of the building space is missing in the floor plan?
I agree with all you are saying about 722 broadway Nada but many people live on this block with children. Most people in Manhattan do not have outdoor space. They take their children to Washington Square Park which is 2 blocks away better than most apartments in Chelsea. It is a compromise which is why this place is worth $650-700 per sq ft. If this place were to be on 11th street between university and broadway, you could not buy it for less than $900 per sq ft in the current condition fully finished $1100 per real sq ft. We are talking about a budget buyer and choices which are available.
nada, hope are you not counting the space in the middle as a part of the apartment for 10th st. rest of that you can calculate from dimensions.
300_mercer, if you look up the building, you'll note that it's a 18x64 building, which is confirmed by the floor plan. I'm not seeing how you are throwing out a full third of it saying it's "barely 1600 sq ft" when the building dimensions would put it at 2304 sq ft. Should it be less than 2304 sq ft? Absolutely. But throwing out the entire middle third? As in the kitchens, bathrooms, closets, hallways, washer/dryer, etc.?
ph41: that $5.5M apt w/ $4200 in monthlies was also available for rent at $17.5K:
I'd personally take the rent side of that one, work it down to $15K. Take out $4K for transaction cost amortized over a decade, $4K for monthlies, $1K for basic upkeep & insurance, you're left with $6K a month.
On $5.5M, that works out to a 1.3% yield. Even if someone comes and pays $8M in 10 years for that place w/ no renovation (double the rate of inflation -- I'm not holding my breath), that works out to be a meager 5% taxable yield.
No thanks, you can have that one. I've got better things to do with $5.5M.
middle is not usable. very simple. also narrower the building, the more you need to take out the exterior walls. For a 25 foot or wider loft including exterior walls does not make much of a difference but for a lowly 18 foot, it makes a big percentage difference. Hence you need to strip at least 50% of walls. There is a reason why 18 foot townhouse are a big discount per sq ft to 22ft+ townhouse. Stairs and walls take up a lot of space.
BTW, did you see this place in your neck of the woods, ph41:
Personal residence of famous architect, lovingly renovated to full glory, 3000 sq ft, 1000+ sq ft of terraces (6-7 of them), river views, spectacular light, absolute top-notch location if you're into midtown east, etc. All yours for a mere $14K.
You like, or not your thing?
I 2nd inonada, I'd take the rental on that one.. and you forgot to mention the fact:
in 2007, 25D would've fetched $7MM... and ain't it funny they took off $500K after 1.5yrs... I think 25D def overpaid in 1-12 but then again.. maybe they have "syrian blood" money...
When you start looking at $5MM+ sales... very few clean hands....
"middle is not usable."
LOL, OK. I feel any place more than 20 feet away from a window is not usable. So that $1.75M loft you sent is actually just 900 sq ft in size.
Actually no, let me correct that. The side facing Broadway is entirely unusable because I don't want to be near Broadway traffic, especially from the 2nd floor, ever. And the other side is too dark because it is enclosed from light from all sides, again especially from the 2nd floor. That renders that side as useless to me as well.
So it's $1.75M for 0 sq ft.
Gee, it's fun measuring physical quantities like space based on arbitrary opinions of usability. We should do this more often.
w67th, 20H isn't looking very pretty. But I'm sure all would be OK if they just held on for 7 years instead of 5.
30 West 10th Street's floors would be about 950 sq. ft. per floor which excludes the stairway and landing. Top floor is going to have lower ceiling heights than the 4th floor and lower floors.
Ono- totally not my thing. I really like all the space on ONE level.
Sorry "Ino". (damn the I-phone)
Blame the tools,
Yes, it's the window in the shower - that's the reason why columbiacounty doesn't take a shower and smells badly.
columbiacunty = thread ruiner
The beekman place that went for 14K/mo.
Could have been our Waterloo, our Gettysburg, our Stalingrad.
14K, small price for such a fine battlefield...and so close to area trauma centers.
W67...always on the money.
ph41, nice, very nice. Excellent left hook......respect.
Penthouse ladies been working out.
Wait until you have the 1st kid to figure it out! Then you'll know whether you feel more comfortable (not $-wise) being in the city or burb with the kid - after that, finances. Babies don't take up much space.
As for changing table, I have to laugh. Bought one for the 1st kid, never used it again with any other kid after the first year. Tricycle - hmm, same thing. I have a beautiful, German-made Kettler trike - any takers?
High chair -yup, useful, doesn't take up much space. Last kid was in there for a total of 6 months before demanding a real chair like the others. Space for homework? I have a very nice "craft table" that goes completely unused. Kids want to do it on our coffee table. Solution - ditch coffee table. Craft table now becomes the coffee table. Desk for homework? I've been dreaming and thinking about getting a cute secretary or CEO kinda desk for the firstborn. Nope, insists on doing it on the kitchen table.
>W67...always on the money.
Earned or stolen?
inonada, in your rent vs. buy analysis are you assuming that you can rent for 15k / month during the entire 10y period?
"Ono- totally not my thing. I really like all the space on ONE level."
"inonada, in your rent vs. buy analysis are you assuming that you can rent for 15k / month during the entire 10y period?"
Ok, very entertaining.
genghistm -- don't worry about the girlfriend get married comment. I had same criticism when I first looked too. That being said, I am not married and presumably you are smart enough to have already thought about this and are in the process of going down that route.
It also sounds like you have a decent combined income and several years of savings. (If you both maxed out your 401ks you would be working ~3 years). The answer is qualified yes, you can afford to live in NYC. It depends on what lifestyle you want and space you need.
Good luck with your future wife and future home!
rent (which is, in fact, saving); and save your ass off
and you can do nyc on youre income, even with private schools x2, if that is a priority
"and you can do nyc on youre income, even with private schools x2, if that is a priority"
Clearly stated he's a big proponent of public schools. And as 'nada stated, private school x2 would put a bit of a squeeze on that kind of budget - I'm inclined to agree.
I am by no means conservative. But this is the sort of situation that kind of underscores everything that I consider to be wrong with society today. Certainly dual-income families today are the rule rather than the exception. And for a good percentage of these families, especially those in the middle of the bell curve of the 99%, it is an absolutely economic necessity. However, there is also a huge percentage of families with dual-incomes for whom the second income is superfluous- merely a means to live "lavishly" rather than "merely great." In this situation, for example, let's split the gross income in half to a single income- $200K. This is PLENTY of money for a family of four to live on, and it easily allows one parent to work outside of the home and one parent to stay at home and actually, um, do the job of parenting (rather than outsourcing childcare to nannies or other random domestic strangers). Is $200K going to allow you to continue to live the fantasy life of "hip," urban/bohemian parents in Manhattan? Probably not... but it is PLENTY of money to live in a nice house in a nice suburban location that is convenient to public transportation and good public schools. Really, what are people's priorities these days? Is it worth being dual-income, half-assed, part-time parents just so you can say you live in Manhattan and have nice things? Parenting is THE most important job (contrary to popular myth) and the luxury of a full-time stay-at-home parent is the ultimate bragging right.
Exactly. Someone's gotta take my mcd order.
Like others here, I think that genghistm could easily save more than 10% per year.
But if you're not in a savings habit, no matter what your income, you've got to train yourself to put money away.
So start small and build from there. Without a structured savings program, we all tend to spend whatever we have.
In case you end up living in an area where there are no "good public schools", I offer that, with 2-250k in after-tax income, if you prioritize, you can easily afford the 75k that 2 private school tuitions will cost. Your priorities are yours, though.
Do prioritize ignoring plow-job. Though quiet of recent, her slurping can be heard, still, on occasion.
Bottoms, you sure do a great job "ignoring" me. However, do explain your math. Inonada's post was a pretty good breakdown: with $250k in after-tax income, $70k for retirement and college, $85-90k on rent, plus the cost of food and daycare, I don't see how you "easily afford" the $75k+ on private school tuition when you're not left with a whole lot. I think it's much tighter than you're proclaiming at that point.
inonada: Everything. My statement applies to every situation in life. For all. Not yours, perhaps.
And you are the only one here who says he is curious about my statement.
Is this the first time you have heard of that?
Does it not seem logical to you?
The potential to regret quick decisions made without thought for the future.
Well you are special anyway. Lots of money, living well beneath your means.
now youre slurping all over nada's "math", plow jop.
as simple as nada's is, mine'll be even moreso, you dope: $250K aftertax - 75k tuition = 175K after tax remaining for balance of life. there are many families of 4 who would be very pleased to live on 175K cash here in nyc.
interesting you give a crap about this thread given you got no dog in this hunt--yours would be an excellent example for geng NOT to follow:
don't invest in a losing proposition in a neighborhood with no good schools, public or private; an overbuilt neighborhood with no limit on future building, if/when supply finally starts to become absorbed
rent, preserve your flexibilty,dont waste $$ on transactions costs, and save
"as simple as nada's is, mine'll be even moreso, you dope: $250K aftertax - 75k tuition = 175K after tax remaining for balance of life. there are many families of 4 who would be very pleased to live on 175K cash here in nyc."
Sorry, bottoms, but that's a load of nonsense. $175k sure sounds like a lot until you have to live in Manhattan supporting a family of 4. Rent alone cuts that in half. And if you're sending kids to private school, you're sure as hell saving for college. And of course retirement. So we're back to 'nada's assumptions.
"interesting you give a crap about this thread given you got no dog in this hunt--yours would be an excellent example for geng NOT to follow:"
What a miserable piece of trolling. How does my situation have any bearing on the OP's? Especially when you seem to know jack sh!t about it AND my neighborhood. But hey, the further away you stay from here, the better. But getting back to the topic, cost of living is pretty relevant to just about anybody in this city. You'd think that was obvious.
Every time I see this thread title I think, "if you have to ask...."
Why is bjw allowed to comment on threads involving math?
Boss - Maybe the subject should be changed to "The minimum salary you feel is necessary to raise a family in Manhattan and not live paycheck to paycheck"
-3 bedrooms (1,700 sq ft)
-Public school in a good area or private school
I had a feeling people might get hung up on the fact I am not married and asking about the strength of my relationship. Maybe my new question will change the focus a bit and more to the point of my question. Although, some of you gave very good responses so far. Thanks!
But changing the discussion question won't erase the fact that you are depending on your g.f.'s income to get you to that 400k mark.
Just buy in the best neighborhood that you can afford now.
If you stay together long enough to have 2 kids you can always move out of Manhattan if you find that you aren't comfortable anymore.
Good luck, geng.
Really, your destiny could be a lot worse than having to move to Jersy or the burbs and commute.
You want a sure thing? Don't have kids. You will have much more money to enjoy and afford living in Manhattan.
Not all people looking to stay in Manhattan are a trying to be "hip," urban/bohemian parents." I'm just trying to avoid what I consider the vapidness, materialism and small minded thinking of many suburban neighborhoods which provide limited stimulation, and even less diversity of thinking, culture, values and economics. I don't want to be around people who have decided that others who chose a different path than them are "what is wrong with society today."
hotprop: There is more outside of Manhattan than the burbs.
Sounds like you would like Brooklyn.
"I'm just trying to avoid what I consider the vapidness, materialism and small minded thinking of..."
Up to this point I thought I was going to read about Manhattan prime.
AvUWS: Yes, me too.
"Up to this point I thought I was going to read about Manhattan prime."
If you aren't married to this woman, you aren't ready to buy property with her. Period.
Matt: geng wants us to disregard that info.
But we would have asked him about those things anyway.
And I agree with you. Difficult enough to break up while unmarried and living together.
Buying property together? oy.
a smart and responsible person would move out of Manhattan and buy a house in a nearby suburb where life is a lot cheaper and your kids will actually have a good quality of life.
Exactly, apthunter13. Or another city altogether, or a suburb of another city.
I hope the OP heeds this advice and does not act too hastily.
>I hope the OP heeds this advice and does not act too hastily.
I wouldn't worry about it. Most OPs are fake.