Scenario: Bf and her husband may or may not have to move to UK for work. They own a 2/2 condo and aren't sure if they want to rent or sell. They are encouraged to list for both by their broker. Bff thinks this is a terrible idea and they need to pick otherwise broker will try to sell, not really try to rent. Husband doesn't think so and wants to list both so they go ahead and do that. But they... [more]
Scenario:
Bf and her husband may or may not have to move to UK for work. They own a 2/2 condo and aren't sure if they want to rent or sell. They are encouraged to list for both by their broker. Bff thinks this is a terrible idea and they need to pick otherwise broker will try to sell, not really try to rent. Husband doesn't think so and wants to list both so they go ahead and do that. But they make it known to broker that their major preference is to rent and they want to hold on to it and will only sell if they get their full ask.
Asking Rent- 10k
Asking Sale- 2.595mm
Month goes by, broker brings them 3 "serious" renters one of whom has 2 cats (they said no cats) another who wants customization's and a third, the ONLY one who presents an offer in writing, who lowballs nearly 2k under ask with a list of considerations.
Then he tells them he has a buyer offering 2.2mm
They tell him they are only selling if they get full ask and to get the client up to ask as they do not need to sell.
They tell broker to lower asking rent to 9500 to get more interest in the rental.
A week goes by and they hear nothing from the broker. They then go online to see that not only has broker NOT lowered RENT but he HAS lowered the SALE price by 100k. Without consulting them.
He then tells them "Buyer is up to 2.295. You should sell."
They then question why the rental price hasn't been lowered as they requested but the SALE price has. And a 30 minute google search shows a bazillion links for the condo as a sale and literally no mention of it for rent other than on S.E.
He doesn't answer and just replies "I have a buyer who is offering 2.295 and you should sell. The only renter I have is offering 7700. But this buyer would be interested in buying with a tenant in place if you want to take the tenant while you wait for the sale to close"
This is the short version but is this NORMAL????
1. Is it common or even legal for a broker to change your asking rent or sales price without your approval, or not change them when you've requested?
2.When given the choice to rent or sell, do all brokers aggressively try to sell instead of rent and is it just pointless to even give them both. I personally wouldn't do it, but ethically, what is the standard?
3. Is my BFF wrong to suspect that this broker adamantly tried to sell it while NOT trying to rent it and may have, in fact, manipulated the situation by claiming the best rent they could get was way below ask and essentially trying to maneuver them into feeling like they HAD to sell. 2 of the same units on higher and lower floors rented within 6 months for 11k and 9000k with no difference in interiors. It seems strange he somehow could only wrangle up one serious lowball offer.
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Response by LookingGlass
over 13 years ago
Posts: 34
Member since: Dec 2010
Really? Your bff needs the sages of Streeteasy to dissect what's going on? I may be a "ham-n-egger" living in Fishkill, NY because we can't afford to own in NYC...but even I can see what's going on.
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Response by angel9894
over 13 years ago
Posts: 73
Member since: Nov 2011
LOL BFF saw it coming from a mile away and I clearly do as well. The ONLY thing boggling us all is that this Broker is in a high position at one of the biggest outfits in NYC. Which begs the bigger question of whether this kind of ridiculousness is actually NORMAL. That's what we are more curious about. If this broker who came recommended pulls this kind of stuff, who doesn't?
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Response by LookingGlass
over 13 years ago
Posts: 34
Member since: Dec 2010
This doesn't address your question, but why would your bf continue to worker with a broker that is not representing her interests? Find another who will...
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Response by angel9894
over 13 years ago
Posts: 73
Member since: Nov 2011
They are trying to switch as we speak.
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Response by inonada
over 13 years ago
Posts: 7952
Member since: Oct 2008
Your BFF has her head up her ass. From the other side, I sometimes see units that are both for rent and sale. Unless they are overpriced for sale, I write them off: very typical that the broker never replies, etc. Whatever, carry on. There was once a unit I saw and bid on, priced well for both sale and rent, and to my surprise and the broker's credit she actually pushed the rent offer forward. Didn't end up taking it, though.
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Response by huntersburg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 11329
Member since: Nov 2010
I have trouble with this whole story because of the bfs and bffs. would seem much more normal if teenage girl talk was removed, now I just think of this as junior high school bus bullying.
Also, who lists a sale price and will only take full ask and nothing lower. Broker sees a bunch of amateurs.
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Response by huntersburg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 11329
Member since: Nov 2010
>There was once a unit I saw and bid on, priced well for both sale and rent, and to my surprise and the broker's credit she actually pushed the rent offer forward. Didn't end up taking it, though.
Of course not, that was just one of 100 in your screen.
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Response by Brooks2
over 13 years ago
Posts: 2970
Member since: Aug 2011
Like yah, very funny lol.
Omg bff really I think the broker is rad like totally cool and really likes u. Maybe you should go out omg really.
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Response by front_porch
over 13 years ago
Posts: 5320
Member since: Mar 2008
EXTREMELY not cool.
There are really two actions here: 1) prioritizing the sale and 2) manipulating listing prices.
As far as #1, I can imagine promising to do two things -- pursue a sale and pursue a rental -- and then do one thing before the other. We all make choices about our workflow, and I think that the broker marketing the sale before the rental -- especially in a situation where he/she knows the client will sell if full asked is reached -- isn't crazy.
But to not pursue the second thing promised -- marketing the rental -- at all, that's clearly unethical. Broker told the client it would be pursued -- and how hard is it to pursue it "minimally," whatever that means in the context of the big brokerage firm? I would think putting up some electronic ads would be "minimum."
Act #2 -- changing listing prices without the authorization of the client, and simultaneously not changing listing prices when the client has asked -- BAD BAD BAD. This is not even a gray area here. I'm not a lawyer, but I would say fiduciary duty of care has been breached.
Whatever you think of Act #1 (and I think the broker in question even pushed that too far by not listening to the client enough) Act #2 warrants a complaint to the broker's manager, and a complaint to a governing body -- whether your friend thinks that should be REBNY, which is our trade association, which all the big firms belong to, or the Department of State, which holds our licenses, is up to her.
I can't believe I occasionally lose deals to these jerks. No wonder you guys hate brokers.
ali r.
DG Neary Realty
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Response by inonada
over 13 years ago
Posts: 7952
Member since: Oct 2008
"Of course not, that was just one of 100 in your screen."
It was #2, and it was pretty spectacular at a decent price: ended up selling at 25x a while later. The #3 place was less spectacular but at a better price. Problem for both was that #1 was even more spectacular than #2 and, and at 35x, better-priced than #3.
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Response by angel9894
over 13 years ago
Posts: 73
Member since: Nov 2011
We can all agree this is not the ideal scenario and they obviously weren't making the best decisions in the process but that's really beside the point. The real questions were is this not just shady, but as front_porch states, possibly even a breach of duty and something that is worth reporting. As again, this is one of the more senior brokers at one of the biggest brokerages in the city.
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Response by angeloz
over 13 years ago
Posts: 209
Member since: Apr 2009
wasnt Madoff one of the biggest investment guys with one of the biggest funds? Crooks and shady people come in all shapes and sizes, reputable or not. I guess its always a buyer beware market. I would of fired this broker immediately.
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Response by alanhart
over 13 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
Subject line presents false choice.
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Response by angeloz
over 13 years ago
Posts: 209
Member since: Apr 2009
i think when it comes to real estate you would want a broker who doesnt have 100 listings and their agency doesnt have 2000 agents, how can you keep anyone accountable, and how can anyone agent service so many people good? Real estate needs to be about the local realtor who lives and knows the area, not corporate interest agencies who's only obligation is to their shareholder, not the customer.
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Response by generalogoun
over 13 years ago
Posts: 329
Member since: Jan 2009
getting rid of the broker shouldn't be a problem since broker has already breached his duties as an agent (legally as well as ethically). He knows exactly what he's doing. Your friend, if so inclined, may file a complaint with the NYS Dept of State on William St. They'll send an investigator and slap the brokerage on the wrist with a fine. I'd send a copy to whoever is running this agency, but as they say, fish stink from the head down. I bet we'd all love to know who it is.
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Response by steve123
over 13 years ago
Posts: 895
Member since: Feb 2009
As a renter, I am leery of listings of units for both sale&rent.
It's an indication to me that the following will likely happen-
* I waste my time putting rental offer together, and owner drags heels waiting for a buyer on the for-sale listing
* I sign a lease, and upon renewal find out the unit is being sold
* I sign a lease, and find out the owners are still selling and I'm stuck with real estate brokers and open house visitors in my apartment
* etc
Also shady broker practices are common. So to the subject question, I would say BOTH.
Time for a new broker, and a new marketing strategy.
They are missing prime rental season wasting their time with this idiot.
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Response by huntersburg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 11329
Member since: Nov 2010
>As a renter, I am leery of listings of units for both sale&rent.
If you are looking to rent, be sure to contractually (as opposed to oral assurances from the broker) look for certain protections. You may want to discuss a multi-year lease, rights of renewal, etc. You should absolutely remove provisions about lease termination in the case of the apartment being listed. You should make sure that you and the owner are on the same page about showings.
>They are missing prime rental season wasting their time with this idiot.
The broker doesn't seem like an idiot, though he does seem unethical. But the clients likely got a good match. Casually deciding to become a landlord is foolish, and for these people, casual is an understatement given that they are pursuing Plan A and Plan B simultaneously (but defnitely no cats on Plan B!). Also, this notion about only selling if they get full ask...
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Response by Parker1205
over 13 years ago
Posts: 66
Member since: Jan 2012
I'd like to know what 'considerations' there were on the low ball offer.
Does this 'well known broker' have two daughters that look like cats on HGTV?
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Response by columbiacounty
over 13 years ago
Posts: 12708
Member since: Jan 2009
why so many names?
what is your point?
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Response by huntersburg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 11329
Member since: Nov 2010
hmm?
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Response by columbiacounty
over 13 years ago
Posts: 12708
Member since: Jan 2009
is there anything you won't do or say?
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Response by huntersburg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 11329
Member since: Nov 2010
>is there anything you won't do or say?
Yes
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Response by JWL2672
over 13 years ago
Posts: 138
Member since: Mar 2012
"The ONLY thing boggling us all is that this Broker is in a high position at one of the biggest outfits in NYC."
Pfffft. All brokers have titles that start with "His eminence, the eternal grandmaster of real estate at Rob you Blind firm. " Seriously, have you seen anyone in RE whose title is below Managing Director?
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Response by angel9894
over 13 years ago
Posts: 73
Member since: Nov 2011
@Parker ahahahahaha, no doesn't have two daughters or any children for that matter LOL. He's not on TV :) The considerations were, if I remember correctly, some customization's to one of the walk in closets, specific kinds of window treatments and a washer/dryer.
Really? Your bff needs the sages of Streeteasy to dissect what's going on? I may be a "ham-n-egger" living in Fishkill, NY because we can't afford to own in NYC...but even I can see what's going on.
LOL BFF saw it coming from a mile away and I clearly do as well. The ONLY thing boggling us all is that this Broker is in a high position at one of the biggest outfits in NYC. Which begs the bigger question of whether this kind of ridiculousness is actually NORMAL. That's what we are more curious about. If this broker who came recommended pulls this kind of stuff, who doesn't?
This doesn't address your question, but why would your bf continue to worker with a broker that is not representing her interests? Find another who will...
They are trying to switch as we speak.
Your BFF has her head up her ass. From the other side, I sometimes see units that are both for rent and sale. Unless they are overpriced for sale, I write them off: very typical that the broker never replies, etc. Whatever, carry on. There was once a unit I saw and bid on, priced well for both sale and rent, and to my surprise and the broker's credit she actually pushed the rent offer forward. Didn't end up taking it, though.
I have trouble with this whole story because of the bfs and bffs. would seem much more normal if teenage girl talk was removed, now I just think of this as junior high school bus bullying.
Also, who lists a sale price and will only take full ask and nothing lower. Broker sees a bunch of amateurs.
>There was once a unit I saw and bid on, priced well for both sale and rent, and to my surprise and the broker's credit she actually pushed the rent offer forward. Didn't end up taking it, though.
Of course not, that was just one of 100 in your screen.
Like yah, very funny lol.
Omg bff really I think the broker is rad like totally cool and really likes u. Maybe you should go out omg really.
EXTREMELY not cool.
There are really two actions here: 1) prioritizing the sale and 2) manipulating listing prices.
As far as #1, I can imagine promising to do two things -- pursue a sale and pursue a rental -- and then do one thing before the other. We all make choices about our workflow, and I think that the broker marketing the sale before the rental -- especially in a situation where he/she knows the client will sell if full asked is reached -- isn't crazy.
But to not pursue the second thing promised -- marketing the rental -- at all, that's clearly unethical. Broker told the client it would be pursued -- and how hard is it to pursue it "minimally," whatever that means in the context of the big brokerage firm? I would think putting up some electronic ads would be "minimum."
Act #2 -- changing listing prices without the authorization of the client, and simultaneously not changing listing prices when the client has asked -- BAD BAD BAD. This is not even a gray area here. I'm not a lawyer, but I would say fiduciary duty of care has been breached.
Whatever you think of Act #1 (and I think the broker in question even pushed that too far by not listening to the client enough) Act #2 warrants a complaint to the broker's manager, and a complaint to a governing body -- whether your friend thinks that should be REBNY, which is our trade association, which all the big firms belong to, or the Department of State, which holds our licenses, is up to her.
I can't believe I occasionally lose deals to these jerks. No wonder you guys hate brokers.
ali r.
DG Neary Realty
"Of course not, that was just one of 100 in your screen."
It was #2, and it was pretty spectacular at a decent price: ended up selling at 25x a while later. The #3 place was less spectacular but at a better price. Problem for both was that #1 was even more spectacular than #2 and, and at 35x, better-priced than #3.
We can all agree this is not the ideal scenario and they obviously weren't making the best decisions in the process but that's really beside the point. The real questions were is this not just shady, but as front_porch states, possibly even a breach of duty and something that is worth reporting. As again, this is one of the more senior brokers at one of the biggest brokerages in the city.
wasnt Madoff one of the biggest investment guys with one of the biggest funds? Crooks and shady people come in all shapes and sizes, reputable or not. I guess its always a buyer beware market. I would of fired this broker immediately.
Subject line presents false choice.
i think when it comes to real estate you would want a broker who doesnt have 100 listings and their agency doesnt have 2000 agents, how can you keep anyone accountable, and how can anyone agent service so many people good? Real estate needs to be about the local realtor who lives and knows the area, not corporate interest agencies who's only obligation is to their shareholder, not the customer.
getting rid of the broker shouldn't be a problem since broker has already breached his duties as an agent (legally as well as ethically). He knows exactly what he's doing. Your friend, if so inclined, may file a complaint with the NYS Dept of State on William St. They'll send an investigator and slap the brokerage on the wrist with a fine. I'd send a copy to whoever is running this agency, but as they say, fish stink from the head down. I bet we'd all love to know who it is.
As a renter, I am leery of listings of units for both sale&rent.
It's an indication to me that the following will likely happen-
* I waste my time putting rental offer together, and owner drags heels waiting for a buyer on the for-sale listing
* I sign a lease, and upon renewal find out the unit is being sold
* I sign a lease, and find out the owners are still selling and I'm stuck with real estate brokers and open house visitors in my apartment
* etc
Also shady broker practices are common. So to the subject question, I would say BOTH.
Time for a new broker, and a new marketing strategy.
They are missing prime rental season wasting their time with this idiot.
>As a renter, I am leery of listings of units for both sale&rent.
If you are looking to rent, be sure to contractually (as opposed to oral assurances from the broker) look for certain protections. You may want to discuss a multi-year lease, rights of renewal, etc. You should absolutely remove provisions about lease termination in the case of the apartment being listed. You should make sure that you and the owner are on the same page about showings.
>They are missing prime rental season wasting their time with this idiot.
The broker doesn't seem like an idiot, though he does seem unethical. But the clients likely got a good match. Casually deciding to become a landlord is foolish, and for these people, casual is an understatement given that they are pursuing Plan A and Plan B simultaneously (but defnitely no cats on Plan B!). Also, this notion about only selling if they get full ask...
I'd like to know what 'considerations' there were on the low ball offer.
Does this 'well known broker' have two daughters that look like cats on HGTV?
why so many names?
what is your point?
hmm?
is there anything you won't do or say?
>is there anything you won't do or say?
Yes
"The ONLY thing boggling us all is that this Broker is in a high position at one of the biggest outfits in NYC."
Pfffft. All brokers have titles that start with "His eminence, the eternal grandmaster of real estate at Rob you Blind firm. " Seriously, have you seen anyone in RE whose title is below Managing Director?
@Parker ahahahahaha, no doesn't have two daughters or any children for that matter LOL. He's not on TV :) The considerations were, if I remember correctly, some customization's to one of the walk in closets, specific kinds of window treatments and a washer/dryer.
@JWL True true, This one is a SVP.