building at 1200 Fifth Avenue

It's Emory Roth & on the park. If you like it, I'd grab it.

seems overpriced given for east harlem. it is right in el barrio. dangerous still and many projects .

Not sure why the last poster thinks it's in the barrio, they must not have taken a good look at the nabe. It's on the park. And they don't make grand buildings like this any more.

it's right next to mount sinai hospital

well... it is north of 96th...

It's a great building, the apartments are beautiful, it has a great a original architect, and the park is great too. However, this building was opened a almost a year ago and there are only 10 units in contract (not sold, none have closed) and the other 27 are still available. The reason why these apartments aren't selling is because of the neighborhood, it's above 96th Street and most people aren't willing to spend what they are asking for these apartments. Let's face it, the building is in East Harlem which is not exactly family friendly yet. When people are spending a large sum of money on an apartment like this, they are looking for some form of bragging rights, there aren't really any when your buying in this area at all. Also, being next to a hospital, not so great with ambulances all day and night. But really, no one is going to pay these prices, they are ridiculous for the area. They are pricing this building as if it were between 60th and 96th on Fifth. It just isn't in the Gold Coast area. Also, they're are projects behind the building bording Madison. It's just not an ideal area for families, especially families with small children, which these apartments are obviously trying to cater to, given the sizes. You can get a comparable apartment in a great pre-war on Fifth in a better area or Park Avenue. The only thing this building has going for it is the fact that it's a condo building and we all know that going through board approval sucks!

Oh I forgot, I'm poster #7, the train tracks under Park Avenue are exposed in this area meaning that you also have the noise from the trains... bummer. Don't buy in this building, it will be a bitch to resell in the future.

thanks for your post . i thought the apt seemed too high. the units are gorgeous but not worth the money

are you crazy! 101 is museum mile and it has a doorman and they are now building
the enormous museum of african art on 105. they are also building two w hotels on 125 and
lennox.

#10 they are WAY TOO MUCH for the area, it may be museum mile, but not the desirable part

It may just depend on which way the market and the area goes as to whether it will be considered a good choice or not. I'm an urban male without kids so I've even considered Central Park North. Alas, however, our women & children continue to be victimized so we must be careful & protect our loved ones.

Women and children watch out, if you move north of 96th Street you'll be victimized!!! - What a load of paternalistic crap!

I don't know, I'm just asking, and each person's response may vary but often people don't want to go too far out of their comfort zone.

What twaddle! What about the fact that there are women and children who live in those areas in safety and comfort and without victimization. What does that say about them? What does it say about what you think that their lives are like?

there are lot of nasty men with knives ready to cut women throats north of 96th
at night they get out of the barrio and they strike like hungry wolves.
read the police report in that area. it is a serious issue.

They also throw children in ovens and cook them and eat them. Never venture north of 96th or the big bad wolf will get you!!

PS 6 (81 & Madison, great school) district ends at 91 Street. Up to 98 Street you get 198 on 3rd Avenue & 95. It's where the Marx Brothers went.

There is a safety difference once you get north of 97th because the parks opens up and from 98th street the homes going east from Madison are in an entirely different demographic. You can check the difference between 19th Precint felonies
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/pdf/chfdept/cs019pct.pdf
and the 23rd
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/pdf/chfdept/cs023pct.pdf
Have your groceries delivered, take cabs, if you can buy in this building you can afford it.

To tack onto the queries posted by #15, what are saying about the women and children who currently live there? That thay're living in constant terror. Hmmm. What's that? Y'up....crap!

you are not being realistic. i am a mother of two and almost bought a home north of 96th street. after reading the police reports for that area AND talking to a detective i ran from what i thought was my dream home. i lived in NYC all my life and could probably handle it but i will not put my two babies in that kind of danger.

take a walk on the wild side but do it without white babies

Give me a break. This is all complete folderol. Yeah, I am sure you were about to move to your "dream" house and then after glancing a police report and speaking to a single detective ran from the area with your 2 kids in tow to, what, Tribeca? the UWS? the Village (West, of course, certainly not East)! Give me a break. This thread in particular is talking about a building at 5th Ave. and 101st. Have you actually seen that area? My suggestion would be to stay in Howard Beach, which is obviously more your kind of place.

#22 your an idiot. Location is everything and this building lacks a good one, the area sucks and for these prices you can get the same thing in a MUCH better area. Maybe if the people north of 96th weren't such idiots like you it would be a safe area and people wouldn't have a problem living there!

So we have sunk to baseless name calling. You clearly have not been to the area. If you think that living on 5th Ave. and 101st means that you will be tormented by people "who escape the barrio and...strike like hungry wolves," then you are the cretin, not I. You are the yahoo, not I.

I have been to the area, I know what I'm talking about, #24 you are the worst of them all for denying it!

have you been to 101 and madison #22????? are you delirious???? or maybe you are the broker for the building. if you are lower the prices if you want to close?

This neighbor is terrible for families, it's terrible for any decent human being, stay away!

Oh, golly, I agree with ever so much with #27. I remember when ed koch was the mayor, and I went to Mt. Sinai to have a bunion removed, and one of those macaccas from the barrio stepped on my toe. I still have nightmares. Stay away form this area. No, flee it, because it is terrible for any decent human being!

this builidng has 40 violations and 22 complains and that is why they have not sold any unit apart from the penthouse that was sold to two gay macacas who did not do their research.

it was the 14th floor not the penthouse. the question is why is this building not closing and why is it still not in a condo classification

so why has 1200 not closed on any units? any news on this?

1200 5TH Avenue is an extraordinary opportunity for the buyer who has vision and is willing to adjust to an area that is in "the path of progress." Beautiful views of Central Park, adjacent to the Conservatory, on Museum Mile, and a beautiful Emory Roth pre-war style apartment...I think the higher floors on 1200 5TH have extraordinary long term upside. Can you imagine what the blogs would have said about the Meat Packing District a few years before gentrification occurred? Or about Tribeca and other vibrant areas in the Manhatten Real Estate market. Soon it will be instead of beware of North of 96Th Street it will be North of 110TH or even further north. When pioneering in new neighborhoods there's always fear of making a mistake which is understandable. However, 101ST and 5TH Ave. is going to get better each year. And to be in a Condo vs. a Coop on the Park. Well, if I were looking for a long term value I would seriously consider this Emory Roth property. Soon there will be a mini boom on Central Park North...just watch and see...and I bet alot of people will be saying..jeez..I could have bought a 5TH Avenue Condo apartment for $1,700.00 per square foot in 2007. And yes there's projects near Madison, and you're not too far from some rough areas, but I think long term it's a safe bet.

no one can predict the future like you are doing . maybe you are right but what if you are wrong? honestly for the same price you can get a similiar apt , a bit smaller in a good neighborhood. so where is the incentiveo buy here? i really think these places were overpriced from the start. had they been priced correctly you would of sold me for sure

Why take the risk...

you would of had me at hello had the building been priced fairly.

Facts: 1) building has 16 units in contract or 51% sell-through of vacant units; first closing occurred 3/27/07; 2) 2006 Crime statistics for Precincts 19 (57th to 96th/Fifth to the river) and 23 (97th to 114th/Fifth to the river) are equal @ one tenth of one percent of population density per the NYPD link at www.nyc.gov ; 2) It’s an emerging neighborhood and no different than TriBeCa 15 years ago (now with 2nd best public school system in city – PS 234), Meat-Packing District 4 years ago (3 new developments opened) and West Harlem (closed townhouse comps average $995/sq ft). Beekman and East End Avenue are earlier neighborhoods that were also bad-mouthed due to proximity to the ConEd plant and the city’s Municipal Asphalt Storage facility. The 3 Lincoln Center Development (2005) borders another public project with subsidized housing and price/sq ft rose 14% year to year from initial opening in ’05 to ’06 based solely on purchase activity (average price/sq ft ’05 of sold units was $1338; average price/sq ft ’06 of sold units was $1524) in a crappy selling period. Prior to 1985, no one ventured past 86th on the UES and the ‘demarcation line’ is now 96th. You are guaranteed that will change and move up as every other neighborhood in Manhattan has. History validates this. 3) There are only 5 condos on Fifth between 106th and 57th including 1200 Fifth (excluding one condop). The remaining are co-ops. Price/sq ft of the others begin @ $2600/sq ft. Pricing @ 1200 Fifth is $1700/sq ft. Sure, the others are located lower on Fifth towards midtown. Which would you rather run into in the Park across the street from your building: 3 or 4 of your neighbors or 250 of your closest out-of-town tourist friends? 4) The development is not for everyone and doesn’t look like they’re trying to be. I look at it this way – there are borders for every neighborhood in New York. They have to start and end somewhere. Making a purchase here is definitely for a forward-thinking buyer. Those who are waiting for a ‘turn-key’ neighborhood will need to bring more money in their wallet. Agree or disagree, the borders will continue to shift in this area as history in the city has demonstrated year after year.

Umm no one is going to read that, no one cares about you're opinions on this site #36. You can take whatever the hell you just wrote and shove it! You and your thoughts don't matter in this world.

thinking people will read it #37.

#36, I think you are probably right. The building has a star architect & it's on the park & assuming that the market doesn't tank (I doubt it will)the boundary will slowly creep north.

to poster #36 - well done.

and to #37 - you are a buffoon.

I agree wholeheartedly that 101st and Fifth will one day be a desireable address. The "tide" is moving North and Fifth AVenue in the 90's is beautiful. But we are in the "here and now" and for the $ you can buy something that already has a desireable address. Perhaps for pure investors is would make sense. But to me, LIVING at 1200 Fifth right now is a "wannabe" address- kind of like living on Park Avenue in Murray Hill. Why bother??? You think you have "bragging rights" but people are snickering.

number 36 please please for the love of god concentrate on getting your units sold. so you can then focus on selling the apartments in the back that face the projects. you may be right but in todays climate people are just not willing to take the leap that east harlem is offering. its an amazing building and i am sure there are many people out there who will take the chance because the consequence will not be that devastating to their portfolios if it does not turn into a gold coast local

# 37 is a classic "naysayer" negative to the extreme, no vision, no character, and no faith. # 37 is a renter and probably always will be. I agree with poster # 41...37 is a BUFFOON. This building is on the Park, it's an Emory Roth pre-war, and the price per square foot has intrinsic value compared to other properties with extreme high-end prices 6-10 blocks south...Now if you have no vision than pay $4-5,000.00 per square foot for "bragging rights." However, for long term value I don't think that you can get hurt at $1700 to 1750 per square foot at 1200 Fifth Ave. with direct views of the Park and "Grand" spacious apartments. Plus it's adjacent to the Mount Sinai and the Park Conservancy which I see ultimately as a positive.

why is being adjacent to mount sinai a positive?

If its adjacent to mount sinai don't you think the screaming ambulances might be a bit of a distraction?

Place is just way overpriced. I don't disagree that this neighborhood is up and coming but that is not how the units are priced. Anything over $1,500 per square foot should be in a prime, not up and coming neighborhood.

i agree and i am not so sure how up and coming 101st and madison is and this building is around the corner

Just to see what all the buzz is about regarding this 1200 5TH Ave. address I personally went to the building and looked at a couple of the units facing the Park. They were beautiful pre-war apartments with direct Park views. The character of the building is exceptional. It was designed by Emery Roth who did the St. Remo, the Ritz, the Beresford, and many other beautiful NYC apartments. I am not from NYC so I didn't have any of the baggage about "North of 96TH it's iffy." In fact I found the neighborhood to be beautiful right on 5TH Ave, however, I realize that Madison in that area is not terrific, but I just walked south down 5TH Ave to 96TH St. and over to Madison and it was fine. These units are selling in the $1,750.00 to $1,800.00 per square foot range which seems to be a fair value for being right on the Park (and a very beautiful area of the Park with the Central Park Conservatory just North a few blocks). Also I was informed that the ambulances have to turn off their sirens within four blocks of Mt. Sinai so as not to disturb the patients in the Hospital and people in the neighborhood. Whether the ambulance drivers honor that or not I don't know. But I talked with people who live in the area and all of them responded positively to being on the Park and in this neighborhood on 5TH Ave. North of 101ST, and said that it was very safe. I liked what I saw and felt that the area had a really good vibe. I saw lots of families and professional types there on Saturday the 14TH of April. There was a wedding going on at the Conservatory, lots of police and park security. It had a real "old world" vibe with lot's of positive energy. In talking to the doorman the buyers are Entrepreneur's, Investment Bankers, Doctors, Professionals for the most part. A pretty cool mix of new people to the neighborhood. Also another building just North of 1200 appears to be on the market as well for another conversion. I think this building at 1200 5TH has alot of positives. That's my perspective from actually seeing the building and doing some due diligence in the neighborhood.

thanks and we hope you sell your units

#49 which units did you see? i saw a few as well and also had dinner on 97th and mad and walked uptown at night.

I think #49 made two very good points - that the people moving into the buidling are Investment bankers, doctors etc. - this will have a positve effect on the area and their $ will attract restaruants and other upscale services to the neighborhood. Second, if there is in fact another conversion planned for North of 1200 Fifth then I think the neighborhood is definitley on the up and up. It is a beautiful area and still has the 5th Ave. address which in some circles still pulls a lot of weight. Having said that, i would buy right now if I were in the market for an INVESTMENT property. I am in the market currently for a family apt. and since my cildren are pre-teens, I would not consider this as an option for right now. Letting them go to the Park in the 70's or 80's is quite different than them walking across to the PArk at 101st street.

#52 can you explain what it would be like to walk across the park at 101? i have wtwo small children and am wondering if this is for us

#52 here - the park at 101st street is as beautiful as it is in the 70's or 80's - having said that, the people IN the Park, especially in the evening hours, are as different as night and day. The crowd at 101st street is coming from the neighborhoods above 98th street as far North and east as one can comfortably walk. Crime rates rise substantially in these areas. Basically, you are in East Harlem.

ahhhhhhh . i think i will wait until the little ones leave the nest

My wife and I were on our way to visit the Museum of the City of New York a few weeks ago, and happened to drop in when we saw the open house sign outside. They were still renovating the stunning lobby and main elevator, so we took the service one up. We first saw a two bedroom facing the back, which didn't really have such a good vibe. But oh man, then we were shown the classic six facing the park. It was really drop dead. I forget exactly what floor we were on, but we were well above the trees and the view of the park was spectacular. The layout was really nice, and the rooms quite spacious. I think you could even turn the huge dining room into a master by closing it off from the living room and incorporating the adjoining maids room and bath to create a luxurious master bath and dressing room. We were sent off with marketing materials that were packaged in an Hermes orange shopping bag. I thought that was hilarious. Alas, at over $3MM, it's way above our price range.

you must of seen the 2nd floor as i was told the others were taken?? oh wait were there any classic 7s still for sale?

whats your price range and are you willing to go to brooklyn?

It was well above the trees as I said, so it was definitely above the second floor. I'm thinking more like the 10th or 11th floor. That floor was being used that day as their "open house floor" and the Corcoran broker told us that the apartment facing the park was in contract.

Regarding my price range, well, it's kind of a moot point because we are "this" close to going into contract on a place that's in the Mt. Morris Park area. As I said in my post, we were on our way to a museum and happened upon the open house at 1200 Fifth by chance. We were just looking for fun, and it was fun!

do you know if the 2nd floor apt is still available classic 7 fing the park. we had our eye on this. we looked at a few places in mt morris . very nice townhouses

whats going on with this building. i miss this post

what's going on with this building?

Anyone know anything about what is happening with this building?

Any update?

These are beautiful apartments, but they are combinations, so the main public rooms are small in size vs. the scale of the apartment (and for similar sized apts elsewhere). And they've been on the market now for a long, long time.... the developer must be crazy to expect these high prices still...

I would not say they are beautiful. These apartments are way overpriced and barely renovated. To have 5 million dollar homes with similar size bathrooms and baths as one would see in a one-bedroom apartment is derisory to say the least. As said they just broke down the walls to combine the apartments without any effort to recreate a true luxury apartment, so looks more like a dormitory that a home with relatively small living area and kitchens and masses of bedrooms. Very tacky indeed and I suspect most buying would have to tear it all down and renovate which seems odd for a 'redevelopment'

May partly explain why units still not fully sold here

http://ny.therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/chetrits-deny-split

...The Chetrits also have other legal issues to contend with. One lawsuit involves 1200 Fifth Avenue in East Harlem, a condo conversion where the Chetrits partnered with owner Maurice Mann, the former co-owner of another ill-fated conversion, the Apthorp.

In October 2010, the condo board at 1200 Fifth Avenue filed a $15 million lawsuit against the Chetrit Group, naming Meyer Chetrit specifically, along with its contractors and architects. The pending suit alleged "various construction defects" at the project and said the sponsors "elected to ignore and deliberately conceal a number of instances that have proven to be potentially dangerous conditions."

Specifically, they claimed, the building's 782 new windows were "improperly designed, fabricated and installed." The suit cited the case of elderly building resident Ruth Newkirk, who alleged that the newly installed window in her bedroom fell in on her when she tried to close it, breaking her hip.

Newkirk filed a separate lawsuit, which was settled for $375,000, said her attorney, Robert Ginsberg.

The 1200 Fifth Avenue case is ongoing. Jonathan Fink, the attorney representing the Chetrits, said they have filed a motion to dismiss portions of the complaint, but declined to comment further.

Industry sources said that the suit is having a negative impact on sales at the building, where brokers are now reluctant to bring buyers.

"If you try to bring a buyer to 1200 Fifth Avenue, you have to tell them the sponsor is being sued," said one industry source. "This thing at 1200 Fifth hasn't been wonderful for [the Chetrits'] profile."

Does anyone have updates on this building and the legal issues?

Lawsuit must be settled since the developer is back on the market with apartments. Not worth the prices for the layouts and the location.

I saw a couple of the apartments about 2 weeks ago. While the appliances are high end, the finishes are not (kitchen counters and cabinets). Also, I thought the workmanship was shotty in several places. It felt like the apartments (which have gorgeous views of the park) are being renovated as they get the money and it definitely felt like they were cutting corners.

I have been looking at the listings... there seem to be so many on sale... I wonder why.

@MattThompson, I think it is because the building is being converted and there is a developer renovating all of the apartments. That is what I was talking about when I was referring to the renovations being below par. They are doing over the entire building.

They need to stop combining units to make these massive apartments. Looking back at the sale history, they're the most successful with 1-3 bedroom apts. And though fifth is fifth, the people who can spend 9 mil are more likely to spend it on an apartment below the 96th street mark instead of a 4500 square foot apt on fifth and 100th

I saw a few units there last week - I wasn't impressed with the finishings.

Matt, two friends went to check out the building as well, saw the 1st floor studio. Said the building's exterior was more impressive than the interior. Plus, the location, like RE19 said, is not worth the prices of the units.

As an investment I would actually seriously consider direct park views at no more than $1200-1300 psf. The ones I saw 9D and 11D faces the back and very close to the next building plus the finishings were not great.

I am looking at the 2 bedroom at 1200 and 1280 ie one museum mile. What are your views of the two developments and the units ? Pricing ?

1280's sales are >50% as of fairly recently. Nevertheless, it's expensive for its location.

As location and finishing goes. Is 1280 better than 1200

If I had to guess (based on word-of-mouth and since I haven't checked out any units in either bldg personally), I'd go with 1200 Fifth, just because it's further down on the avenue and, overall, *looks* nicer.

Luvbrooklyn,

As a contractor I have seen many buildings that have been converted, some great and some not so much. I cannot speak of 1280 5th but 1200 5th was very well done, that quality and finishes are very good

Primer05, the units I have seen in 1200 i.e. 9D, 11D and the one on the ground floor has less than ideal finishes. 1280 has far better finishes and amenities compared to 1200. Both developments are expensive if you consider that they are in "east harlem" otherwise I like 1280 better as it is closer to the train stations.

If you cannot afford a west facing apartment in 1200, skip it completely because otherwise you will have a beautiful, dark view of another building. If your other option is 1280, at least the views are better, there is more natural light and the building has fewer problems. 1280 is a bit pricey for what it is, in my opinion, but the value is only going up from here anyways..

I agree psk, am currently looking at west/olique west facing apartments in 1280. The direct park views there are priced high but I guess this is the last bit of central park views - as everything else ie condos facing central park are at least $2000 psf below 96th.

The other alternative is to buy a central harlem apartment on a high floor that faces the park.