Where would you go if you can not afford 2 bed in the city?

I did a similar analysis a few months ago - I started with the top 30 public high schools in NJ (from http://njmonthly.com/articles/towns_and_schools/highschoolrankings/top-new-jersey-high-schools-by-rank.html) and filtered out the ones with a 25+ mile driving distance to midtown manhattan. Here is the list -

NJ Towns to consider (all are within 25 miles of the city and have top rated public schools)
Millburn
Livingston
Tenafly
Glen Ridge
Demarest
Cresskill
Glen Rock

Also - Montclair is nice.

That said, I would rent a 2bed/2bath and stay for a few years. What's the rush?

bid $749k for this one

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/375674-coop-115-east-86th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york

Nyhome: I am in a similar position with a somewhat different price range. My two cents:

1. If you really must buy now and are already looking at Brooklyn, expand your search to Park Slope and Brooklyn Heights. Prices there will hold up better when you are ready to move on, there are lots of families and better access to Manhattan than Greenpoint.

2. Consider Hoboken, the Northern part of which is nice and seems to have become something of a middle step for folks with small kids before they head west to the suburbs (because the schools are not so great).

3. Take patient's general advice and make some bids before you give up on Manhattan. List prices are only that.

4. But I really think you should rent for a year and see what happens. Many LLs are offering incentives. Without starting a war on a side topic, most people who are paying attention expect this market to go down for a quite a bit longer. Moving expenses and inconvience should be worth it in the long run.

Good luck.

don't rush into a purchase. the great thing about renting is that you can adjust. this is particularly important if you move to a town in new jersey that you don't know well. what if you hate it? what if the commute is worse than you expected? what if all the visitors you anticipate don't show up? what if those things happen, you own a place in new jersey, and the housing recession deepens and you can't sell it? seriously: rent for a while and figure it out.

You do not sound like you are in a position to buy into a falling market in NYC. Have you baby, enjoy those sleepless first months of parenhood through next year at this time, and then look again. You may find that you can find just what you want at the price you can afford. Do not let the desire to be done in 6 months with all the planning and moving you may do for the next 20 years drive you to buy at this moment. You do not have the profile of someone who should be buying right now.

nyhome: I was not being flippant with my post of the property I saw. HR and Kyle are on target. disclaimer: I am not a life coach. I just think you shouldn't leave Manhattan, many regret it. Many options before you do. Rent, bid low to buy, just buy and don't pay your mortgage or file taxes, its ok now, its all ok, I saw it on tv.

I agree - just rent for a year ( or two)! The great thing about a baby is they don't take up that much space and you don't need to worry about schools yet. If you can afford $750k maintence that means you can spend nearly $4000-$4500 a month on rent. You can definitely get a 2 bedroom (if not 3 bedroom) in parts of Manhattan or the family-friendly parts of Brookyln. I would look at Upper West Side near Columbia, FiDi, Murray Hill, UES over by york /1st etc. .... if you are not picky about a doorman, there are some good deals to be had.

I also think what you think you want may change when you have the baby. Some people love being in the city with kids, others hate it ... and, while moving is a pain, if you hire good movers with the money you'll save, it won't be that hard.

I grew up in Nutley. My choice for Jersey towns would be Maplewood. For Brooklyn either Cobble Hill, Carol Gardens or Brooklyn Heights.

After 25 years here and raising two children both of whom are in College I am considering a move to Maplewood...but not yet prices are declining and I believe will continue to.

I saw a nice two bedroom in Chelsea yesterday on west 21st street (7th and 8th ave), elevator,laundry in building,high ceilings, fireplace,fully renovated with nice kitchen. Rent $3150 No Fee. This is a pre-war style building but lets not be thinking Bing & Bing at this price. You can contact me at keith@theburkhardtgroup.com

That's just wrong. You are destined to become the "game changer", new pardigm, real estate go to guy. Trend setting does NOT occur in Maplewhatever!..Stay put young fellow, fight the good fight!

Yeah I know. In maplewood I'll just become another fat guy stepping out the door in his robe to get the Star Ledger.lol. Ok later I'm off to change the face of real estate!

burkhardt - two kids in college? you look 12 years old in the photo on your website. good for you! i have looked in maplewood myself and price have...and continue...to come down. there is one house in particular that i saw about six months ago that was approx. $800K. it is now listed for approx. $650K. to be fair, it would need at least $100K of work in my opinion and it is on a corner with not much of a yard but it is a magnificent tudor. take a look (foreclosure, i believe):

http://www.jboyerhomes.com/idx/for-sale/2643591/details.html

also, just for the record there were some student uprisings at the Maplewood (Columbia) High School about a year or two ago.
kinda interesting.

How about West Harlem 110-125 packet - a lot of New Construction buildings. 2 br 2 baths new construction with W/D asking $750K, they may accept less or older condo buildings on CPW -2 br. at or under 700K.
(commute from West Side Manhattan is still much easyer then from NJ)

How about Astoria, Queens (pass Broadway, townhouse or condo) - very easy commute to midtown Manhattan.

How about co-op in Forrest Hills, Queens (near 71-Continental & Austin Street) also express E or F to midtown Manhattan and established residential area.

And of cause second, first and york avenues in Manhattan UES.

elena
(broker)

myhome, this is an exciting and stressful time for you, don't over think it. There is some great advice on this thread but there are two points I agree with most: 1) Don't leave Manhattan yet and 2) rent a 2 bed.

When the little bugger comes you want to be able to put him/her to sleep right? Add a 45 min - 1hr commute and you will most likely be on a bus or a train instead of feeding, enjoying bath time, and putting it to bed.

When is the due date?

"Ok later I'm off to change the face of real estate!"

Real estate has always had two faces, that will never change. (joke)

Wherever you choose to go, I agree with everyone who says RENT!!
I was struck by some bizarro nesting impulses while pregnant, and left my open Williamsburg loft space (with the crumbling exposed brick and the Modine heater) for a tiny two bedroom rental in Prospect Heights. Which we hated, so we were lucky it was just a rental. So we bought a 2 bedroom condo in Greenpoint. When baby #2 was born, decided we couldn't live in our walk-up anymore, so we bought a house in Connecticut. Connecticut! What was I thinking? Within 18 months we were back in the city, and finally sold the CT house a year and a half later, at a loss.

Each time we moved we thought we were making the right choice, and in a sense we were. But our needs changed so frequently when the kids were young that we moved each time to accommodate them. My general advice is: no permanent solutions to temporary problems! If you must go to NJ, do just rent. If you love it, then buy. If you don't, come back home!

RENT - a 2 bedroom is plenty of space for 2 small children.

you're going to love being close to central park in the summer with a baby!!! Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you sachinc. We are rushing cause we will have grandparents from Europe taking care the baby until 2 yrs old and we definitely need a 2nd bedroom..

Patient09-Thank you for the apt but for me that's not real 2 bedroom. I know we have lots of those here in the city. But I will listen to you and the others who advised to make lower bids for our ideal apt. Will let you know how it goes.

Malthus-I did not like Brooklyn Heights and Hoboken but maybe I have not seen enough there. I have seen Park Slope one day and I liked the neighbourhood more than the others.

kylewest, JuiceMan - very good observations. thank you. Due date is end of July.

barskaya - Yes, west harlem is one of the areas we would like to check one Sunday..Astoria maybe but Forest Hills definitely not. The E train takes too long and the neighbourhood was not very attractive.

I got many ideas, thanks to you all. It looks like staying in the city and shopping for a 2 bedroom to rent is a wise decision.

a 2 bedroom is plenty of space for two small children...unfortunately it is not enough in most cases for 2 adults, 2 children, toys that accumulate like gremlins, strollers, etc.

btw - a one bedroom w/ lots of visitors is a nightmare!

do you know what you are planning to do with your children? If you stay home, a big part of your income will drop but if you are leaving the kids to someone to take care of them you need additional expense in the equation. Very important years the first few ones. You do not mention anything at all.

I don't know sniper - we're in a one bedroom with one child and 2 adults w/ toys, stroller, gremlins, etc (2nd floor of walk-up brownstone I might add ;). You'd be surprised by what you really need and what you can do without to save a buck. Now, we have absolutely no room for guests and it's difficult for my husband to work from home which is why we'll be looking for a 3 bedroom this summer. BUT, if you're creative and somewhat of a minimalist, I think it would be plenty of space.

"I also think what you think you want may change when you have the baby. Some people love being in the city with kids, others hate it "

This is also very good advice. I was certain that once we had children I would want to move out of the city to be closer to family. I thought it would just be too much and couldn't fathom raising children here. My husband went so far as to request a transfer with his employer. But once she arrived, my perspective changed completely. I can't wait for her to take some of her first steps in central park. I adore living here and will be truly saddened if we have to leave.

Allow yourself some flexibility.

uwsmom - i am not saying that it is not do-able. i have a 2 year old and 4 year old living in a 2 bed 1 bath for the last four years. this is the place, so you can see the size: http://web.me.com/seif69/11K/HOME.html

we have been dealing fine for those 4 years...but "creative and minimalist" does not equate to "plenty of room." once we moved a boatload of stuff into storage to get ready for showings the place definitely became a little more pleasant to deal with and yes i can hardly remember what we put in storage let alone needing it back to live but things do get tight and the kids are still just munchkins yet growing every day. the mirror image of my apartment on the floor has raised two kids (opposite sex) in their unit so it is of course possible but it becomes a matter of choice.

after that mouthful, i still agree with most people here. i would rent a 1 BR (even try to lowball them on the rent price) where you can put up a small wall for the kid's space and look to buy in a year or two.

nyhome-if you're interested in West Harlem in the slightest, take a look at the apartment in the Normandie on W. 119th. I agree, you should definitely rent. But this apartment is slightly around $750K with low monthlies and 1450 sf. 4 bedrooms, all small, but cominations or opening up could be done. Not necessarily what you need now, but will give you an idea of how quickly that market is headed down and what might be available if and when you decide to commit. Other areas will correct as well, just nice to see now that something already is out there that would be doable.

I saw units in this building that sold for around $1.1 in 2007, and this one started at over $1.2. Pre-war building that converted a few years ago.

Whatever you decide, good luck.

We plan to continue to work. The child will go to daycare after 2 yrs old. One of the grandmoms will stay with us for the first 2 years.

After the 2nd baby, this is now long term, maybe my wife can start working from home (her job allows).

another adult! forget the 1BR. with an in-law staying with you, you will now need at least 4000 sq ft. you are gonna need somewhere to get away from all these people! wife, kid, grandparent. here is what you should do. DO get the 1BR but also get a studio for yourself across town. will be the smartest decision you ever make.

BTW (sorry, I often have to read threads in bits and pieces), I'm almost certain that you could rent a nice 2 bedroom in prime UWS for $4000-$4500/mos, especially if you're willing to wait a few more months. I'm not familiar with other neighborhoods.

Great thread and lots of great advice as well. nyhome, I think your budget is actually reasonable and you should be able to find something that suits your needs in several neighborhoods. I know some people like New Jersey, but most here are advising you to stay in the city or rent if you really must leave. I think that's wise. If you decide to try out Brooklyn, I would rent as well, unless you're sure it's for you. I bought essentially the exact apartment you describe in Williamsburg, so I know it's possible, even in "better" times. And don't write off Greenpoint, especially if you work in Midtown. The G isn't as awful as some make it out to be, unless you use it a lot late nights and weekends. During normal hours it's actually fine.

snipe: nice idea...I got one better..Had a friend who had identical situation years ago. He joined one of those fancy gyms with lounge chairs by the pool. After work, he would go there and sleep for 2 hours before going home, told the wifey he was working late. Did it for 1 1/2 years till mother-in-law moved out.

As usual, I agree with kylewest. Your budget sounds rather modest for what you want but prices are falling so I'd say to continue to rent until prices soften further. I'm concerned about somebody's mother moving in with you for the next 2 years. Ever heard a joke about mothers-in-law? - Take MY mother-in-law ....... PLEASE ! - Perhaps you'd all be happier if Mom took a nearby studio; you may all be happier with that scenario.

"One of the grandmoms will stay with us for the first 2 years."

OMG. That changes everything, what a nightmare. sniper is right, you may need more space than a 2/2. Burb's here you come!

now now, nyhome_usa may be happy to have his MIL stay with them. We're all different ;)

i hate to take it in this direction (no i don't) but anyone on this thread that is married with kid or kids knows where the sex life goes. your most intimate partner becomes the screen that you are staring at right now. move the mother-in-law and you can practically say good-bye to that too. can you say charlie runkel?

You Russian? Detect a certain cadence... Anyway, lots of people have ILs stay with them to take care of the kids for the first few years. Great for 2nd language acquisition, if they're from Europe/Asia.

We have 3 kids, and I agree with the "you don't want to lock yourself into any position" until the child(ren) start arriving and you know what kind of lifestyle will work best. Rent for now. Stay in the city.

And with the money you're saving on childcare and babysitting, you can easily afford to spend a romantic weekend/month at a nice hotel.

nyc10023 - No, we are not Russian.

Snipper - valid point about sex life.

uwsmom - I would be happy that the MIL is with us as long as she has her private room. This now takes me back to the townhouse in NJ which has a large basement with own bathroom...While we are in the 3rd floor in our private bedroom, room for baby and more space..

aboutready - not interested in Central Harlem...west side, south of Columbia.

Young couple having to live with their parents was one of the leading causes of divorce in Russia.

The younger generation, so spoiled! What's the big deal about having 3 generations in one room?
Can MIL sleep with the baby? This way, you guys are not going to wreck your beauty sleep getting
up with the baby?

I had a violin teacher who was Russian. He said to me once, "Mother-in-law, that word in any language!" I think he was still living with his when he was 60.

407PAS - do you have kids? Seriously, when you have young kids - if you have in-laws you can trust who'll babysit on demand for free, get up in the middle of the night for you, let you both sleep in (without having to trade off), go off for impromptu dates, I don't think MIL would be a curse word.

Right now, every date we have costs us at least $80.

it is true. you are lucky to have that in-law to do this stuff. it will add to your life in many ways but detract in others that can definitely be bearable for a few years.

Snipper, Agree. I think it is something very nice that both parents are willing to help for a few years. I would not wanna leave a 3 months old for daycare.

nyhome - just so you know, west of morningside below Columbia isn't really Harlem. Nice area.

I don't know if I'd have wanted my mom or mil living with me, but my mom passed away 7 years before I had my daughter, and I would have loved to have had her presence. There are definitely pros and cons.

BTW, We have around 150K cash and pre-qualified for 750K. No equity left afterwards... But no credit debts etc. and lifetime job security from an international organization. So I am hoping that the COOP boards will not create any problem during approval under these circumstances.

lifetime security...wow that's great...you'll probably get more for your money by renting and buying later.

currently you would not have much success with a coop board. most have instituted rather large liquid asset reserve requirements. there is disagreement as to whether or not these requirements may loosen up. either way, another reason to rent (or get a single/multi-family or condo).

nyhome_usa, If you're planning on two children I think you should put public school quality into the equation, too. And maybe look further east on the UES (If you're from Europe you're not shocked by the idea of walking a few blocks to the subway). 2br/2bt with 1150 sq ft were 600K and less in 2004 in good areas of the UES and there's no reason why they won't go back to that range. Maintenance below 1300 is harder to get but not impossible. I'm looking for almost exactly the same as you (I have a 4yr old and awaiting second, income 160K year, stable jobs, with 180K saved, so I reckon our limit will be around 750K) I personally recommend PS290, PS183 and PS6 areas.

I lived in Russia for a couple months and tried to make babies with as many women as I could. I'm not really sure if I succeeded or not.

is this a woman's forum? Can I chime in?

uwsmom... It wasn't you I recommended HRP 3 months ago, could have sworn it was :). That's what happens when you have 2 less than 5yo... you lose your mind.

Does anyone remember that thread.. I think I had a cold was taking nyquil when I started my SE addiction?

Oh... yes back on topic.... you spend your teenage years, early 20's =>edumcating yourself, mid-20's to early 30's finding gf/bf/wife and starting a career and running away from your parents as fast as you can... then you stop yourself immediately when you have your first child and run screaming for help to your mom and MIL....

And yes any "couple" time costs me $30/hr... :) When my mom and dad are not around... but the guilt makes us run back home so quickly... that we ended up with more nannies (with HELOCs)....

P09... my old boss always would come shoot the "shit" after 6 for an hour... he just didn't want to go home any sooner than (took the metro north at 7:20) 8p.m. when the 2 littliest ones were asleep...

You ladies with the "high powered" men working late.... just "surprise" him with a home cooked meal at 7p.m. in his office :) OH SHOOT... someone's gonna be looking for my IP address :)

I don't think you can buy an apt for $750K if you only have $150K in cash. What about closing costs? You can forget about buying with 10% down, especially a coop. Another reason to rent for a year and save some more for the downpayment.

Once you are ready to buy another area you might want to look at is Hunters Point in LIC, one stop from Grand Central. I would not consider other areas of LIC but Hunters Point has come a long way. With so many new developments going up you might find some good deals there a year from now.

just "surprise" him with a home cooked meal at 7p.m. in his office

a HUGE hole in that plan:

1). if she can get away from the kids at 7pm, (whoever she is) she will be:
a - going to sleep
b - going out for a drink with the girlfriends
c - going to the gym
d - taking care of the shit that gets backed up from having two kids
e - doing ANYTHING but going to her husband's office to surprise him with dinner

I always hear good things about montclair. There are some very nice towns in Jersey, but supposedly its got a LOT of former UWS folks. I think the Times did a piece on this, how its got more of a city feel than much of Jersey. I know they also renovated the local theater and its actually a destination now, getting some really good bands.

"barskaya - Yes, west harlem is one of the areas we would like to check one Sunday..Astoria maybe but Forest Hills definitely not. The E train takes too long and the neighbourhood was not very attractive."

Yes, forget the E. Try the LIRR. I have friend who commute, its 10 minutes to penn station and the trains run like once every couple minutes. FH happens to be a good mix of sorta suburby (definitely quieter than closer brooklyn neighborhoods) but ends up being one of the quickest commutes.... if you are near the trains on both sides.

67 - it's quite possible we had a conversation that I am no longer aware of, but I've never discussed HRP on this board (or anywhere for that matter).

and I would guess nyhome_usa is mediterranean, italian maybe?

East 18, I wouldn't worry about closing costs in co-op. It is approx $3-3,5K. I would worry about liquid assets after downpayment (150K that they have is exactly 20% of $750K). And debt to income ratio.

If you need to save money in order to buy in the future, I have rental in Forrest Hills, 1 block from Subway. Large 3 bedrooms 2 baths for $2,200 in a private townhouse. (no doorman, but laundry is in the building).

E or F train isn't that bad compared to bus from NJ, and only 20 min from 51 Street and Lex.
Area around 71-75 Avenue is an established residential area with nice co-op and condo buildings.

elena
(broker)

The Wellmont Theater in Montclair is getting great bands now. just a few recent or upcoming ones of the top of my head: Counting Crows, Ray LaMontagne, Ben Folds, Bill Maher, Derek Trucks.

It definitely would be nice to have all of those guys playing locally

uwsmom - close guess; I'm from Greece, the wife is German. So the baby will probably be speaking 3 languages.

yasoo!
afgaristo!

(spelling could be way off there)

uwsmom.. :)

sniper... go there, grab his ear and get him home to help out :)

Elena - you are right, I wasn't aware that the closing costs for a coop are so much lower than for a condo. But still, you need to pay for your lawyer, plus the moving costs, and as you said, you need liquid assets.

Yes, did not worry about closing costs, can always find additional 10K-15K.

Easy people, my mother-in-law comments were meant as a joke. I wish everyone good luck with taking care of their children and with maintaining good relations with their in-laws, honestly. I have a slight advantage because my mother-in-law and I do not speak the same language. How could I ever offend her? I lack the words. Vice-versa, how could she ever insult me, her words make no impression on me. ;-) Another joke, folks.

"I'm from Greece"

:) here we go - Astoria. 1,5 blocks from N or W Subway Stop
3 Br, 2 baths - entire floor - new construction - $2,200/month

elena
(broker)

NY_Home: I'm in the exact same boat, except a year behind you (not pregnant yet, but hoping to be soon.) So everyone's answers have been hugely helpful, especially because I'm from WI and don't know anything about the commuter towns outside of the city. So my question: What about Westchester? Are there any towns comparable to Montclair there?

why can't you buy a $750k apartment with a 20% downpayment?

I'd definitely rent for now.

As regards cheaper (than Manhattan) neighborhoods, check out Park Slope in Brooklyn which is mostly spectacular brownstones along Prospect Park.

nyhome_usa,

I wonder if you had considered the possible tax increases proposed by NYC democrats... would this sway your decision to moving out of the ciy?

"why can't you buy a $750k apartment with a 20% downpayment?"

Coops generally require 25% down. Skin in the game. Condos will let you put down $5.

Myhome, Do not, and I repeat, DO NOT move to the Burbs. Continue to rent or whatever you have to do to stay in town - you will lose your mind in NJ. We had the same rosy picture of suburban living and with 3 kids and a wife who wants more, it made sense. We bought a big, old beautiful house in Princeton and lasted 14 months. Thank God we kept our place in the city. That was 3 years ago and we are happily still living on the UES but in dire need of more space. WE continue to look and hold off on our 4th child. But never, and I mean never, would either of us consider leaving NYC for suburbia.

To the prior poster, Stealth1, that is your opinion. And obviously you are very wealthy, being able to afford an old beautiful house in Princeton and contemplate having a 4th(!) child.

Most families with two children want three bedrooms and maybe a 4th for an office or guest room. 99% of such families cannot afford to purchase a 3-bedroom in Manhattan, not to mention the 2K monthly coop maintenance charge and $65,000 a year for two private school tuitions. Plus, some of us like to barbecue on the patio, and hop in our car (without paying $500 a month for the garage plus tips to the garage guys so they don't "accidentally" scratch the car) to drive to the country or wherever. Plus, we like peace and quiet, while only being 30 minutes from the hustle and bustle of Manhattan.

So to Myhome, there are hundreds of suburbus out there. What you might hate others might like. Take your time, prices are not going to go up for a very long time. And welcome to the suburbs!

ORIGINAL POSTER: If your workplaces are convenient to Penn Station (cf Grand Central), would suggest Northern Nassau County (Great Neck, Manhasset, Port Washington) as worth your while to investigate.
1) First-rate public schools. Great Neck North & South regularly rank among the best in the country.
2) Very manageable commute: Express LIRR approx 25 mins, local trains approx 35 mins. The trains do NOT run through Jamaica -- no transfers needed.
3) Well-planned public areas (can walk about town centers, nice parks, community organizations)
4) Town-homes/condos available due to spec building 2004-2008.

That said, I do think NYC (UES especially) is a great place to raise very young kids: don't need a car, drugstores and restaurants deliver, 24-hour drugstores, and high population density (your kids will make friends faster than you will) are all good for starter families.

In this market, I would guess you could find a true 2 BR/2 BA rental that you really like, show a reasonable bid for a 2-year lease, emphasize your stable family and stable career, and success is likely.
Happy hunting!

Thanks unrealestate,
My clients purchased a house and moved to Great Neck this summer (they rented prior).
Their elder kid is 3 now and second one is on the way.

elena
(broker)

If you want to be close to the city, I would buy in Bergen County. Tenafly is nice, but you will not get a lot for yoru money. I would also look at Leonia and Fort Lee. Their high schools are not in the top 30, but they are in the top 75.

Princeton has good schools too, but is is a very long commute. Not sure why someone would want to live there unless they worked in the area.

Also, if you want to avoid taking a bus, Ridgewood, Ho Ho Kus, and Glen Rock are nice places in NJ to live since they have train service.

we were in a similar situation and ended up with a huge condo in williamsburg. even with all the decline in prices, weirdly it was still less then from a psf perspective then current averages (i just pulled recent comps). anyway, we found the parents community to be fantastic, and are really happy here. the school situation is way better than people assume. obviously, greenpoint has extremely high rated schools. we did look all over a ton of suburbs as well too. in the end, the space and total convenience to the city what was swayed us. if you want, for the heck of it, check out the yahoo group, brooklynbabyhui - it's the greenpoint/williamsburg hub for all local parent activity. people are incredibly supportive, and i've never made better friends in my whole life. good luck to you!

I have a very different perspective about where you should look if you decide to leae the city. I think that once you determine that you are willing to commute, you can't assume that a suburb in new jersey vs. westchest/ct which are equidistant from the city will have the same commute time. Also, pay close attention to property and state income taxes.

Let me give you my perspective on this:

New Jersey is a very high tax state (income and property taxes), so you will not save much money by living there versus other suburbs or in the city--even if you get more space. NJ has large local, state and county governments--so it drains taxpayers to pay for all these employees. New Jersey house prices are lower (in general) than CT and Westchester for three reasons: (1) very high taxes and (2) less attractive commuting options (3) fewer prestige suburbs than Westchester/CT/ Long Island. New Jersey is very congested and difficult to travel around. Getting into the city on weekends by car is always hard, bcause you have to cross a birdge or tunnels with very heavy traffic. NJ commuting is very bad. NJ trasnit is slow, lots of breakdowns and many susburbs have no train servie at all, so you are stuck with private bus lines which are unreliable and bring you into Port Authority. NJ trasnit has very limited weekend service to city as well.

You should consider the westchester suburbs along the hudson river (like Irvington, Hastings, etc) or Edgemont or Rye Brook. Westchester has high propoerty taxes, but the commute is so much better and they have excellent public schools (at least as good as NJ) I would also consider Stamford, Darien or Westport Connecticut. CT house prices are typically higher, but that is because the income and property taxes in that state are far lower than NJ or NY, and the public schools are very safe and generally well funded and excellent. Plus, Metro North is the best mass transist system in the New York area. Not as crowded, you arrive at Grand Cenral (more convenient than Penn Station or the disgusting Port Authority).

Before you buy in the suburbs, try renting a house for the summer in an area you want to live and try commuting. It gives you a chance to learn about the area, try the commute, figure out if you like the parks, the people, the shopping and cultural offerings....and you can ask local people about the schools. ALso, read the local papers in these suburbs, so you get a real feeling as to what is going on in the town.

This is all really helpful. Thank you! Here are two new questions:

What's the ethnic diversity like in Westchester/CT?

And did Williamsburg clean up the chemicals? I was told when I first moved to the city that B-burg was a former chemical dump and I heard jokes about breast cancer clusters.

Not to freak out anyone who lives in B-burg. (I lived there for a year in the 90s.) I just meant that before all the development and before all the hipsters arrived, it used to have a pretty bad rep. And then all of a sudden you don't hear about the chemicals. So I'm just wondering did they do something about them? I would love to move there.

I suggest you look at Greenpoint (and other areas of Brooklyn) again before moving to the burbs - the G train is actually not that bad - I went to Greenpoint a couple weeks ago and was shocked to find that it took only 30 minutes from my office in midtown (taking the 7 and transferring in LIC). It's actually a better commute to midtown than many areas of Park Slope (I used to commute by the F train, which was miserably slow).

As for "chemicals" and "oil spills" this is a non-factor, unless you are looking to live on the banks of Newtown Creek (generally, a non-residential area). Williamsburg and Greenpoint actually have a lower cancer rates than average. You can look this up.

As for the suburbs, I have also lived in south shore Long Island, and the commute was soul-crushing (1 hr 15 m door-to-door, minimum), plus I could not walk to anything - the nearest convenience store was about a mile away. I will never return to the burbs.

Good to know. Thanks, PJC!

Let me share some news related to our situation. After listening to the people in this thread, we have decided to stay in Manhattan. First, we asked for an upgrade in our current building. We moved from 1 bed/1 bath to a 2 bed/2 bath apt. by paying around 300$ more per month. Our initial rent was around $2900.

Second, we are still looking for an apt. now primarily in UES/UWS but no rush. Many reasons for taking it easy; current economic situation, expecting a baby, not adequate down payment for a 2bed/2bath apt (we have around 150K). Our criteria slightly changed after moving to a 2bed/2bath apt, we now definitely want 2 bath.

OUR NEW CRITERIA:
i) 2 real bed/2 bath (no dining area or office/den as a second bedroom)
ii) Maintenance < 1300
iii) Price < 750K
iv) Location UES/UWS

good job on your upgrade. Best of luck with the baby!

Not sure we are there yet, but you have plenty of time now to see if you can get there. Not that I hope you don't get it, but if prices fall that far, we are all in a lot of trouble. We sold an UWS condo in Sept. 08 that meets your criteria for more than 1.5 times your target price and it was considered to be at the low end of 2/2's in terms of location, floor and condition. So $750K would represent a huge, huge fall. Good luck though.