building at 245 East 87th Street

Wow, that's crazy. Maintenance is insanely high and I hear terribly noisy from subway constr. Buyer beware.

ADDSS- You are incorrect about the move in fee- its much less than $ 4,000. Even if it was as high as you think it is, anyone purchasing a place in this building could afford to pay a move in fee.

Rick57- Yes, maintenance is a little high (i wouldn't say insanely high) and you forgot to mention that 61% is tax deductible. As for the terribly noisy subway construction, it's a temporary inconvenience. The benefit of having a subway 1/2 block away far out weights the terribly noisy construction. I can't wait for the value of this building to increase when the subway is complete.

As for potential buyers, the units in this building amazing! 90% of the units have private balconies and are 20% larger than most places in NYC.

If you are LUCKY enough to purchase a unit in the building, you will enough this urban oasis.

ADDSS- If the board approves you (and that's a big IF), we will start a community donation and pay your nominal move in fee.
Rick57- Sorry you can't afford the maintenance, we have been in the building for years and love our home.

Maybe the both of you should consider a larger building with smaller units.

Qualified Buyers Welcome....

MayflowerRes- good comments. I wrote some less than complementary comments about the Mayflower, but not about the apt or the location. I was dismayed by the lobby. Any plans to redo it? Also the doorman did not seem the most attentive on a busy sunday afternoon with re brokers and open houses, etc. Also elevators were slow when there were lots of people. I liked the apt, big, closets, etc. The outside of the building was not your typical post war, but maybe not in a good way. I didn't think that the maintenance was not that high. I just don't know. I think the apts sell at a very reasonable price.

I looked at this building recently with my partner as his mother live there. This has some of highest maintenance in the neighborhood. He will have a hard time selling when his mother passes.
My partner's mother says board does not seem to care about costs.
No guarantee subway will be finished as MTA does not yet have all the funds to complete it. I went back several days to check noise levels and it is terrible. I do not want to listen to this for 5 or more years. The FTA say this could last till 2018. obviously reserve is no good or they would not charge so much for move in. AVOID, AVOID, AVOID this building at all costs.

I looked at this building despite my broker advising me against it. It was decent but my broker says the maintenance is out of control. So I did my own research and comparisons and lo and behold I should listen to my broker more often! I mean that is what we hire them for, right? You can tell it just keeps going up. So I advise all to stay away from this place. The board must be tough. It's either mismanaged or something causing 245 E. 87th to have this kind of maintenance issue. Look around and you will see. You don't want to have trouble selling a place on the back end because people dont want to buy high maintenance. Additionally, Mayflower Res comments above sound like a broker not like a resident.

I have lived in this building over 25 years and have been watching the comments here.I dont know if Mayflower Res is really a resident or someone trying to make a sale but the naysayers are mostly correct. The rooms are a little bigger than most. Big deal. It's not whether you can afford a place..it's whether it is a wise investment. So instead of you all on here, name calling, I say grow up.
I am considering selling but until the maintenance goes down (yes it is absurdly high) and the mortgage is adjusted it will probably be too hard. The board needs to ease up.

Anyone know why the maintanince is so high here? Much higher than most so seems. Any plans to raise it again soon? From the looks of it on the main page does it keep going up every year? Also worried as congress is considering doing away with mortgage deduction. Thx- Ty

From what I understand it is due to the lack of a commercial space on the ground floor. They use the move in fees, etc to offset some of it but maintenance is definitely still on the higher end. The financials seem sound so I'm thinking maintenance may grow at a slower rate than the surrounding buildings bringing it back in line eventually with comps on maintenance. The amount of space I get is definitely a plus compared to every other building I looked at in the area so it's worth it in my opinion. It's noisy during standard work hours but since I'm at work during those hours it doesn't bother me. The MTA is still targeting 2016 for revenue service and the station construction schedule is soon so I think topside construction should all be done much sooner. The subway entrance will literally be a block away so it's going to be really convenient.

I am thrilled to have finally sold my apartment and moved out. Now I can speak freely. This is an incompetent board that refuses to make hard choices with the maintenance. They refuse to confront with a terrible superintendent who makes residents miserable. Now it's someone else's problem.

I have finally decided to speak up after living in the building many years and reading these comments. Sadly, I can report the above comments are correct. The board refuses to make the tough decisions with respect to the buiding maintenance. Also, the super is very disrespect and controlling. Virtually no one likes him but yet he is still there. New leadership is needed at all levels but it seems many shareholders apathetic.

I have lived in this building for many, many years and many residents have been subject to brutalization from the super. The best thing to do is stay away from him. I would not recommend ever purchasing in this building until swift and severe action is taken by the board. Sadly, the board is a bunch of folks who have been on the board forever and do not seem to care. It is true what lawsun says that shareholders are apathetic because the same board members keep getting re-elected. They may be "cooking" the books but that is not provable. Bottom line - do NOT buy here.

Hello. There are many apartments available in this building that look very nice. Can someone please explain the "brutalization" from the super and give more details about the board of directors and why people above have such negative feelings about them? I am very interested in purchasing in this building, but very skeptical based on reading the entries in this forum. I do not want to make a purchase that I will regret. Any further information would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Liberty4, can you be more specific with your experiences with the super and the board?

This building is on a block that just got knocked out of the PS290 zone and into the zone for a new school in a church on 91st, so there is a fair amount of uncertainty as to the quality of the new school.

There do appear to be large discounts for this building's apartments - must be the combo of the school situation, the subway, the high maintenance (which looks even higher if they are not including the flat rate utilities in the headline quotes).

I have been living in this bldg for more than 6 yrs and I can't believe the ridiculously negative comments people are making. Yes we have a high move in fee but we have a practically non-existent flip tax so that more than makes up for the move in fee. The maintenance is a little on the high side, but we get unlimited use of utilities which is great if you have a washer/dryer (which is allowed) and we rarely have assessments. The bottom line is, all co-ops have to generate income whether through flip taxes, move in fees, assessments, maintenance fees, etc, its just how you "label" it. We have very competent, experienced board members who work diligently to keep costs down as much as possible and protect the bldg as much as possible. The super is a great guy who really cares about the bldg and knows everyone by name. I have never been brutalized by him, I don't know what Liberty is talking about.

Mayflower, you are a nasty SOB that never has a positive comment to make.If you are on the Board, which it sounds like you are, I imagine it would be a nightmare to go through the approval process. why would anyone want to buy here under these circumstances. Also, Are you saying that a perspective buyer can be turned down because the Board does not approve of the selling price? That can't be legal. The "discounts" previously alluded to obviously have to do with the high MT, Genius! Your building is still north of 86th Street and any perspective buyer has to consider their total monthly costs. If the reserve is good and financials are in order, then the Board needs to do something to lower the MT. Your apts are not selling for this reason.

oh and Crescent's points are well taken. Thanks for the info, Crescent

I have been living in this bldg for more than 6 years and can't believe the trash people are writing. Yes we have a move in fee but we have a practically non-existent flip tax so it's a much better deal. Some other bldgs I was looking to buy into had a flip tax of 2-3% of purchase price! Ouch! We also have a higher maintenance but that includes all utilities which is great if you have a washer/dryer, which the bldg allows, and we rarely have assessments. All co-ops have to generate income so whether you call it a move in fee, flip tax, assesment, maintenance, etc it doesn't really matter. All bldgs do what they have to do to build the reserves. The board members are experienced and competent and do what they can to control costs but alot of things are out of their control like property taxes. As for the super, he's a great guy who knows everyone by first name and he knows his stuff. He has helped me alot over the yrs and I'be never been "brutalized" so I don't know what Liberty is talking about.

Mayflower Resident: Since you seem to have some knowledge of the building, could you please explain the maintenance charges? They seem high for such a large building. Are the amenities such as the garage included? Or are these in addition to the high maintenance?

I don't think that these comments relate to the board turning down applications. They seem to deal exclusively with the maintenance. Presumeably, if you answer the questions well, you'll satisfy the curious people.

Darwin Mayflower: Waldo, 100 million clams! Yes!
Auctioneer: That's 100 millon dollars to Mr. Darwin Mayflower.
Minerva Mayflower: 100 million and one, Waldo!
Auctioneer: Fantastic! 100 million dollars and one.
Darwin Mayflower: Outbid by mine own wench! Quelle bummere!
Minerva Mayflower: Don't hate me baby!

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjE2MjQ3MTU1Ml5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwODQzNzgyNA@@._V1._SX640_SY631_.jpg

On a serious note, average amount of units for sale in a building are around 5%.

A 118 unit building with 9 units for sale and 3 "in contract," near 10% is rather high and raises some eyebrows.

> Please relay to us any building that has lower maint at these prices with balconies and sq footage? Go ahead genius, just one.

You want credit for the fact that your building trades so cheap?

I don't have a problem saying your building will appreciate as the subway construction approaches an end, whenever that is. It just won't go up soon as the next data point is another pushout of the completion date.

OK, so here's the reason for the high maint and high deductibility: there are two mortgages totalling $5.4m on this building, entered into in 2005. It's all there in ACRIS if you search under the 245 East 87 corporation name. They replaced another mortgage from 2002 of $3.5m.

This $5.4m is definitely in the upper half, maybe upper quartile of buildings I have seen. In a 118 unit building, for a 1-bed, that would be maybe an implied mortgage of $40,000.

I'm not a fan at all of sizeable mortgages. Pay 5-7% interest for enough years and it's a lot of money out the door with no amortization and no value realized.

1) The larger of the two mortgages, $4.4m, is due in October, 2015 and pays 5.16%. I assume this can be refinanced.

2) A permit was filed for a new boiler only 10 days ago- cost $1.2 million!

3) This block number (1533) is among the ones due for Local Law 11 this year, but so are 30% of all buildings in the city. Is this building under scaffolding now? I wouldn't know - I am only in the area to dump things at goodwill occassionally. If so, it could be costly- they could have told shareholders there is an assessment coming, and it led to some sales filings.

It's for a new hot-water boiler, but that's only $60,000. The rest of the $1,200,000 is to replace the central-AC chiller, and a booster-pump thingey.

The main boiler burns #6 oil, so the cost to convert to #2 or to gas will be coming along, too.

and they're about to repoint the building?
Ass-sessment!

Wow these last comments are incredibly helpful! I will not be considering this building anymore. What does Mr Mayflower have to say now?

>Wow these last comments are incredibly helpful!

including from falcogold?

Go chinabelle! Let us help you wade through the cesspool known at NYC real estate- crescent222 around gmail.com

Me next! Google me next! Do me, do me!

>If any of you who are considering this building take these blogs seriously, well, I guess you believe n tooth fairies as well.

Now really, it's one thing to insult the past people, but now you are insulting potential future buyers?

>And by the way, there are 7 available, not nine.

Single digit numbers - the numeral format is preferred

dumb is one thing, but are you making an actual accusation of fraud?

Are you saying that this building is totally up to code wrt local law 11 or will there be repointing in the near future?
As an afficiando of the property I'm sure you are in the know and can easily put this matter to rest.
I like the building but never took the time to notice that heafty mortgage it was dragging around. What do you think that is gonna look like when interest rates rise? No matter, interest rates will remain low forever....right?
Actually, now that we interacted, I like this building less...but that's just an Ass-sessment of you.

falcogold is a big Yorkville proponent, Mayflower. You keep picking fights with the wrong ppl.

Stay away from NWT especially. Cross him and all your skeletons will be revealed. ALL.

anyone who googles falcogold will also see what people think about the sad Mayflower

In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey and that's all I have to say about that.

And a clever monkey, I'm sure.

Falco, you should have looked at four apartments, selected according to your detailed specifications by a broker, and bought one of them and lived happily ever after. Never again giving a thought to SE or real estate. But instead, because you're such a loser, you haven't been able to find a place that justifies moving from your rental and here you are, prattling on and sharing information that you've gleaned during your years of searchIng. For shame, for shame.

bad falco!!!

your hair's so long youve got to calling it home

>falcogold is a big Yorkville proponent, Mayflower. You keep picking fights with the wrong ppl.
Stay away from NWT especially. Cross him and all your skeletons will be revealed. ALL.
+1

And BTW, Wow, no Hudson Hawk fans, tough crowd.

The building is one of the uglier post-war buildings I've seen, looks like a cement fortress. The lobby is several steps down from street level, making it dark and as I recall not very impressive. The maintenance is high due to the small number of apartments and no retail income. Lots of street noise on the lower floor terraces facing 2nd Ave. Also a mechanical noise coming from a restaurant north of the building disturbs the peace on terraces that have northern exposures. Apartments are large, and prices are reasonable due to high maintenance, the subway will be a plus, but only goes down to the 60's on the eastside. Just my opinion of course.

Mayflower Resident: People were open to hearing your case and wanted to understand the building better. However, when you refuse to answer basic questions and attack people instead, you lose credibility. Now you seem petty and embittered rather than a useful resource for people considering purchasing in the building.

Wow, RENY trashed it too. It really must be a terrible place to live.

Frack, I didn't trash it, I gave it's pluses and minuses. If you get a high floor apartment facing 2nd Ave. you could do alot worse, as I said the apartments are large and the prices reasonable.

I am a resident of this building (and have been for several years). Overall I have always felt this is a friendly, family oriented building. I've never had any real issues with the super and the doormen - I think if you are a reasonable person you would not have any friction with the staff. Sounds like some of these comments are from a few bitter people in our building with a personal issue with the super.
While I agree that the maintainence is on the higher end of average, prices are generally lower per square foot than average to offset this, so even with a higher maintainence your carrying costs are really about the same.
As for the street noise, I'm on a higher floor facing north (away from 2nd ave) and it's very quiet in here, I can't really hear any construction noise at all.

Don't you call me a pansy antagonist. W67 is an anarchist.

yes, buy first ask questions later

MayflowerResident, if you're trying to drive down the prices at that building so you can snap up a lot of units cheap and then try to turn the building around, you're doing a very good job, but with only 11 total posts on a discussion board that won't be seen by most potential buyers anyway, I really don't think your scheme will work.

And if the other commenters "dont know anything about the building", what is it about this particular building that makes them comment on this one alone? Are they jealous because it's the most exclusive, out-of-reach building in the entire City of New York?

MayflowerResident is clearly the board president.

I think we should keep this thread alive and prominent. So all you non-greys out there go at it.

Actually we looked in this area and you are probably better off at the Newbury at 85th st http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/the-newbury
Low maintenance, parking available, a pool only if you want to pay for it, roof deck and friendly people.

OK,
Let's take this building to task.
A fair and thoughful evaluation of it fiscal and physical condition as well as an analysis of it's apartment floor plans and carrying charges as it relates to it's neighboring buildings of similar ilk.
What is the underlying mortage and how is it being financed...that seems like a good place to start.
What % of the CC is tax deductable.
What are the services and staff size in this building.
When was the last time local law 11 was satisfied and when is the next cycle?
What are the taxes on this property?
Since it's been made clear that I don't know anything about this building I am calling on my SE no-nothing trouble making dopes to aid me in an analysis of this building. Try to stick to varifiable info and post sorce even if it it can not be authenticated.
What is the move in fee exactly?
Whis is the exact formula fpr the flip tax if there is any?

I can't be interested in the building you live in?
I'm not allowed to evaluate it's finances or it's physical conditions?
How would a prospective buyer be able to make an informed decision?
People who post often on SE don't know anything about RE? Why do you think we post? We know tons about RE. More than a reasonable amount because it's our hobby and our obsession.
You're writing here like a short sighted dope.
You see how often we post and most information is in the public domaine or can be culled via poster experience. I'm going to ask all regular posters to make this building a foucs of your attention.
ANY AND ALL INFORMATION ABOUT THIS BUILDING SHOULD BE POSTED AND EVALUATED ON THIS THREAD.
Let's try to leave no stone unturned so that the buying public will know every possible fact about this building, it's finances, condition and practices. Who knows, maybe it's the best run building im Manhattan. That ought to be a boom to your property value.

The amount if residents of this building commenting about it has to be a SE record.

MayflowerResident - Have you actually read the posts that you have googled by these folks? Your building is being examined here by some voices who have built up a lot of credibility; I would advise you to engage in a constructive fashion. Any curious reader will look up posts by those who have posted here and your voice will be the only one that sounds crazy.

Mayflower resident, why are you afraid of divulging the facts about this building's finances? Any perspective buyer would be a fool not to research these details. ( but then again, the Board would never approve a fool, right?)
If this building does indeed have new assessments and expenses coming up in the near future ( new boiler, conversion of oil to #2 type, main AC repair, repointment , additional $1.2 million mortgage etc) then the square footage does not offset the high MT.

Mayflower, only 7 more posts to go, then you've hit 20 (and all of your prior posts reflect the count) and then no one will listen to what you wrote and all this effort will be for naught.

i have over 20 posts...sux that I am considered 'unworthy' now

Saw 2 Apts back in May. Neither has sold. And they were old listing's then. Both were beautiful, but lacked character. Add the highest maintenance I have yet to see and it was a show stopper. Bought in Hells Kitchen in June.

I heard its a great building

I have been lurking on here for a long time. The things said about the super is true. I think MayflowerResident is a broker of some sort pretending to act as if he knows what he is talking about. The super is an abusive bully. The board refuses to act mainly because they are afraid of the union. I would not recommend living in this building until some of the staff is replaced. Unfortunately no one has the courage to speak up.

Does anyone know if this building resolved its problems with the super and the board? I'd like to know more.

No- nothing has changed in this building. Same board, same super. Complete lack of interest in controlling maintenance or new leadership.

Curious to hear from any residents if it's changed? Spoke to the long-time owner of 16A at a party and she raved about the building despite what she called high-ish maintenance. Very surprised seeing all of this.

Things seem to have improved. Maintenance is only slightly above average, due to no building retail in the bottom of the building.

This building is in great financial shape, great reserve, pointing done, lobby done, marble work being done, new boiler, new AC system, oil to gas conversion done, all paid for. Great people, great personnel, great everything. Interested in knowing more, call me at 212-828-0492. I live here and have for many years. The last thing I want is to see an unhappy camper in the elevator. Enjoy your day.

The problem with brokers responding to questions or commenting - especially with an “everything here is brilliant” type of replies - is that it is oh, so difficult to believe they are truthful. A bit more of a pro/con approach would create a better impression.

Agree with Dickens, especially those brokers who sold a lot of units, or even live in their cash cow buildings

Any update of the building, super or the board?
A few units were sold at very reasonable prices last year, probably covid panic selling.

Any updates on the building? About the super, the Board? What is the status of the mortgage? Any big updates or renovations coming up or needed? The listings mention a garage - is it available for owners?