building at 500 Fourth Avenue

Interested in finding out more info as well. Went by the OH today. Apartments look good. Quality layouts and finishings. Better location then the other buildings on 4th Ave.

Yes I agree with Todd the quality layouts and finishing do look a lot better then any other developments on 4th avenue. But I still wonder about the price, does anyone believe that there is room for negotiation?

I have think that they will negotiate somewhat. I asked today about transfer taxes and they said no but I think it will change when a legit offer is on the table. They have a tremendous amount of inventory and must be feeling the pressure to move units. The mortgage broker there said that only need 25% sold to lend though. In any event, I am going to try and do a construction tour this week. I will update this afterward...

Do we have any clue to what percentage has been sold? Did the sales agent mention a number? Streeteasy shows only 4 units in contract.

He said 10 contracts signed.

Are they still doing the early bird special 10% off?

Yup.

Any idea how much a parking space is here? Maybe they can throw that in, in lieu of closing costs.

They said that it will be run by a third party private developer. They did not have quotes yet. What's your thoughts about this property vs. Argyle.

bad reputation Issac Katan as developer?

Anyone go to the open house tonight? If so let us know what you think.

I too did a search for Matri Holdings and got a big "0" for results. I agree it has the best finishings but they offer no price protection, not buy back and are not budging on negotiations. The 10% off seems like a sales pitch. It didn't end in April... it's still going on. I don't understand who's going to buy all these condos. Not only all the new developments on 4th ave, but also the Toren, Schermerhorn, Baltic towers... etc. The Europeans and Chinese are no longer buying them up.

I think it will take a lot more then 10% off the price to sell these apartments.

it will look more attractive if they offer another 10% off. They raised price 10% more, then saying we are giving 10% off for early bird . Not make sense !

they are strongly advising me to make an offer not lower than the 10% off, they said they have turned down a bunch of offers that were 1 to 2k lower than the listed price. they are totally full of crap pretending they are hot commodity, as of today 10% of the units are sold, there are total of 156 units in the building. i agree with snoopnyc that it will look more attractive if they offer another 10% off

i put in an offer at around 15% off (rather than 10%) & got flat rejected. not even a counter. in retrospect, i'm happy they didn't take it. the "early bird" should be a starting point. otherwise, they're never going to fill up. & if that happens - what happens to your cc's?

yes ny10006 I agree they pretend that they are a hot commodity, and in this lagging real estate market its going to be difficult for them to sell at the prices they are asking. It's time for them to do a price adjustment if they plan on making more sales. Or they need to reconsider reasonable offers they receive. Like many other new developments they will find that they will need to lower their prices too. At almost 700.00 a sq. ft. they are definitely overpriced.

Justin_p, when did u put your offer in? I really don't know how they will sell more than 50% units to meet the mortage companies needs. If you see the news Ads today on Metro, L Haus in LIC is offing $565,000 for 1,082 sq feet 2 bedrooms plus three flexible options, in the other word, LIC just $500/sq. ft. Is this building $200/ sq ft better than LIC???

I'm looking at a unit there that's 392k (with the 10% off), 678 sf. Isn't that $578 per sf?

yes Ralph you are correct.

this part of town is toast.

156 units, 61,000,000 construction loan. Comes out to $391,000/unit.

OUCH...

Went to an open house on 5/17. Have seen all the other new developments on 4th - Crest, Argyle, Novo, etc. This appears to have the best layouts and finishes. Also got "won't entertain any offer below the "early bird special" of 10%" off despite the fact that I was offering a cash purchase. I don't think that anything above $600 sq ft at this early stage is rational. We'll have to wait and see.....

To Sjtmd: which unit did u make an offer? $ 550-650/ sq ft. is about average price in Park Slope now. But as economy is soft and not getting strong as before soon . I doubt they can insist the price and sell most units. Does any one know how many units sold ?

snoopnyc:
I didn't make an offer. The salesman simply told our group that the "early bird special" is for a limited time only. 10% off is all that they will budge. When my wife and I met privately with him , I said that I would make an offer only after we received some photos of the unit(s) we were interested in and if we eventually could see them directly. If this occurred, and we were still interested, an offer would be forthcoming. I said that it would be less than the present 10% off - no news yet. We will see how long they can "hold the line" - especially on the pricier units.

The "limited time only" was originally only supposed to be for April... I'm sure they'll continue to keep it hoping nobody will bid more than 10% off listing. I mean, you don't offer 10% off due to "overwhelming demand"

snoopynyc - made my offer on May 7th. i have a hard time believing these cc's are going to remain at that level.

thanks justin_p. Looks like thry are very tough on thr price. Why CC won't be the same? If lots units remains unsold, they can rise the CC?

I may be ignorant on this, but my fear is that failure to sell units would result in higher CC's. I'm not sure how long they must remain at the stated rate - 1 year? But how else can you afford the upkeep? As it was explained to me, the CC's are low because there are so many units in the building (not sure if I buy that explanation, since it doesn't seem to apply in other buildings). Once the developer is out & ownership is handed over to the condo assoc., I would be afraid that they would realize that the amenities offered cannot hold up at these low rates. Does anyone else have that fear? Can anyone explain how this works & if CC's blowing up is a reasonable fear?

If they fail to sell, the developer continues to own them and pay their CCs. If the developer defaults to its lender, then the lender pays them.

The CCs are a best-guess by the developer as to the first year's budget. Plan on them going up.

I'm not clear on which amenities would actually cost the condo money. Most of them seem to be just common space with no staffing involved.

Thanks, NWT and Justin_p. Btw, most people are interesting in 2 bedrooms or 1 bedroom?? 4th Ave attracts more young people. So maybe 1 br is a better call? I don't think a studio is good choice on this building because the populations and prices are close to an one br.

snoopynyc-2 bedrooms are always easier to sell, I mean if you can afford a 2 bedroom get one over a 1 bedroom. Even in "younger" areas 2 bedrooms are in high demand (young people tend to marry and have kids) plus Park Slope is stroller central so I wouldn't worry about that.

and justin_p every building handles finances differently and yes there's always the possibility of common charges going up but personal liability (all things being equal) will always be smaller in bigger buildings, it's just simple division. But it's the "all things equal" part that makes it harder to generalize, I mean if a building isn't well managed then yes even if it's big things are not going to turn out well.

Snoopynyc - I've been on a tour and many of the studios have very generous space including an out cove area where you can place your bed and even place a room divider so you don't not have to have the bed it in the main living space.

Thanks kimerama. So now every banks request 70% sold to get mortage? And how many units sold so far? r

I just purchased a unit here. I've combed Brooklyn, Queens and Jersey. The only other 2 buildings that had finishes equal to 500 was Crystal Point in NJ and Star Tower in LIC... both out of my price range. Star Tower actually had very low cc's as well. Crystal point was in the 400's but the tax abatement in Jersey is nothing to be excited about... WITH the abatement, taxes were $500 a month. With that said, these two places were out of my price range. The lender at 500 allows 25% sold lending. So with that I decided that now was the time to move. There were only 3 units in my style in the building and I didn't want to chance it. I also feel like we're at the bottom for NY. Mad Money says there's 28 days left. Nervous? yes... but there's always a risk...

Pretty terrible location--12th street and 4th ave...Ouch. 4th avenue itself is pretty suspect and anything above 10th street is NOT Park Slope (as far as I'm concerned). They should accept ANY offer and just get the hell out of this project. If they get picky, they'll never get out.

RalphTV thanks for your input and Congrats on your purchase hope it al works out for you. I also agree with you and have looked at many other new developments and not many compared to 500.

I moved to the corner of Dean and Bond in 1989. I lived there in Boerum Hill for 20 years. When I moved there, a car was torched outside my ground floor apartment, someone was shot on the corner, my car was broken into numerous times and my roommate was mugged twice. Now it's Sesame Street. I was there when they started building the Bishop Maguvero Center for Geriatric care. It was only a few years later in the 90's that Smith Street had a face lift. By the 2000's it was untouchable. By the looks of all the buildings going up and the development on 4th Ave, I think the same will ensue. I also like the fact that the F and the M/R cross there. 2 stops on either the M/R and you can transfer to numerous trains. You can wait all you want... but if you wait for the bottom too long, you might miss it. Then again, the market might have a second drop. Question is... what's your risk level? I waited so long in Boerum Hill that by the time I wanted to buy, I couldn't.

RalphTv, I heard they only accept 10% off for early bird and not accept any lower offer. Is that true? And u bought a 2 Br? And the building lender requests 10% down only? Thanks!

a bunch more came up as in contract today. but they still don't have as many listed in contract as they told me a month ago. are they slow to get it up or is it just streeteasy? also, why do we only see 1/2 of the units on here? to make the market seem less flooded?

anyone have answers???

Snoopy, I got a 1 bdrm. They were not negotiating on ANYTHING. The price, the transfer fees... nothing. I didn't ask about the 10% because I intended to put down 20%. But on Prudential, it does say 10% down. Even still, I was a little frustrated that they weren't negotiating, but I really did search through every nook and crannie of this city and this still worked out to be the most affordable with the nicest finishes in a neighborhood that was livable. I am worried that they offer 'perks' when they need to shake off the last few units. They told me that whatever they offer, it won't be as good as the 10% off. But even that... I thought the 10% was supposed to be over by May 1. I think the 10% will end once they reach a certain 'percent' sold. I think if there were more units like the one I purchased, I would have waited. But I really loved my layout and there were only 3 like it.

Justin, I think a lot of what they call "In contract" were people like me... I put a bid in 4 weeks ago and dragged it on forever. I think they realized that I was very cautious... they were very patient and answered all and any questions I had. I also was able to see my actual unit before I purchased.

RalphTV, thanks. I am very surprised that they didn't accept any lower offer. As NY Post today, "I feel really lucky not to be on the market right now," says Aida Stoddard, a principal at Bright City Development. There is an article about this south slope area.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06042009/realestate/due_south_172416.htm?page=0

Also it said now 500 is about 15 % sold only and the 10% off will continue until end of july. so what will happen in Agu? 20 % off?

Tried to make a cash purchase but they wouldn't even discuss any price other than the 10% off listing. No movement whatsoever. Not a penny. No negotiation on fees. Zip. Sounds entirely crazy in this or any market. How long can they keep this up? A Viking fridge and cooktop are not worth it.

Not sure why they are being so stubborn in this market. Are there any other people who made a purchase at this building? If so we would love to hear about your experience.

ralphtv thinking of purchasing in the building did you use there lender and isnt it risky if there lending when all they need is 20 % sold

jsomma... I know.. I took a risk. I think it'll sell. It's the nicest building East of the Mississippi.

ralph tv just reserved a unit they r pushing their lender i dont know what to do curious if they are selling

jsomma did you make an offer? are you in contract?

jsomma, I think sales all around are 'dribbling' in. It's sort of a chance... After I looked around (and I did go all around Brooklyn, Queens and NJ), I thought that 500 had the nicest finishings, lowest cc and a price I could deal with. I don't like the way it's moving along so slowly. Compared to other buildings, I thought this would sell better... but perhaps a lot of people don't find it? Or maybe they don't mind having a big HVAC stuck in the window or a shared laundry room on the second floor between 200 units.

You need to have a good lawyer.. make sure that you have an out in your contract if it's not ready by xxx date or if their lender denies you or even goes belly up. What other places are you considering?

Wait I could have sworn there were washing machines in the units, I thought I saw them at an open house, am I wrong? If they went overboard with everything else and neglected the washer dryers, wow, what a mistake.

kimerama , At 500 4th Ave, there are washers and dryers... I was talking about Be@Schermerhorn. Sorry if I wasn't clear.. after rereading, I see it's a bit unclear.

jsomma, what unit are you looking at..? just curious...

RalphTV-got it. Uh yeah Be@Schermerhorn is just horrible, I went to see those units when I was looking and at the time the prices were higher (I think they are still high for what you'd get). I pretty much walked out when I learned that there'd be college-like sign ups to use the laundry.

Good luck with 500 4th, beautiful building and if you are willing to wait out the hood I'm sure you'll enjoy living there. Plus think of it this way, you got to choose the unit you wanted, if you had waited it out for perks when they start to unload units, you'd just have to take what they have left.

kimerama, yeah... if there were more units like the layout I got, I would have waited. The other 1 bedrooms had less space, for more money and not a good layout. They're the ones with the balconies. Mine faces the back courtyard. It just seemed like it would be quieter.

I'm curious to know what jsomma did...

I reserved my unit but I still see it listed on here. Does it just take awhile to show up on streeteasy? That would make sense since I haven't seen much movement on this site at all but the agents tell me they can hardly keep up with all the new sales.

i wonder how many other units are in contract that just don't show up here just like your Kphillycat. Hoe long ago did you sign your contract? It would be better to know the exact number of units sold especially in this market where lenders will not approve loans on new developments that are less then 50% sold.

I didn't sign the contract as of yet. There were a few issues with the offering plan that needed to be revised. I should be signing it next week though. I would still expect not to see my unit listed here as if it's available, since technically I am in contract. Either way, I would like to see a solid updated number on all units sold or others like me in contract, just so I can get a feel about the progress. I personally don't feel like they have been advertising this building well enough to have a full house come fall. Maybe good for those of us who got in early but makes me wonder if they are really going to be filled up anytime soon. Tell your friends.

I guess they will not post a until as sold until you iron out all the issues. I believe that you have 7 days after you receive the offering plan to either sign the contract or not, so I guess it will not show as sold until then. What issue did you have with the offering plan?

Yea I guess. My lawyer wasn't satisfied with some of the terms plus I had my own contingencies. It'll be signed, it just has to be tweaked a bit. I guess this place isn't moving as fast as the agents make it seem.

I'm confused. How does one change the offering plan? Any contingencies would be in your contact.

It has to do more with the purchase price and payment. This is just what everyone told me. I'm not changing the plan myself the seller is according to my situation. My contingencies effect the contract not the offering plan itself.

FYI-you are NOT in contract until both parties have signed the contract so the place is still technically on the market and you can still walk away if you choose.

I see, I guess that makes sense. I still seems odd to me that no new units have went into contract though. It's been quite awhile and the agents talk about how well the building is selling yet I don't see all that activity translated to streeteasy. What gives?

It seems to happen in chunks, I wouldn't worry about it. When they first went on the market and were claiming to have all these sales nothing was showing up until one day a handful showed up in contract.

I can say yes, it's not until both parties sign that it shows up as 'in contract'. I too was going back and fourth with contingencies and all that time, it was not listed as in contract. However, at the 'open houses' they were not offering it there. So in essence, they pull units off their list when you submit your offering papers, but they don't pull it off the web until you sign.

Sales told me that they had very good weekend and sales were like hot cake!!! They said 90 people showed on Sunday and there are 17 units in reserve! Is there any body there on Sunday? really so many peopel? But I think you only can reserve for 7 days, in the other word, there are 17 units will be in contract this week? WOWOW!

Does anyone have any updates on construction? Do we think they will actually be prepared (notwithstanding sales) to close in Oct/Nov?

I was by the open house last night. Construction seems to be moving along and the sales agent said they are a little ahead of schedule and still predict it to be done by mid to late fall. They also claim that units seem to be moving fast, many are reserved and that they have huge turn outs at their open houses. They also said that they don't foresee a problem selling most of the building even in this market.

ralphtv i signed on a 2 bedroom great apartment just hope they sell this stuff i dont think the numbers r good unless there are alot of reserved units that will show up later .closing costs r high might scare people away

hey guys what kind of contigiencies r u putting in .i rejected fairmont as the lender should i be putting more in thanks

I went buy there yesterday and I thought that it looked the same on the outside as it did over a month ago. Still no railings on the balconies. Perhaps they've done a lot of work on the inside???

Hi All. Question, do any of you know of other lenders aside from Fairmont? Fairmnont is very helpful, but i like options to choose from & the others I have contacted all say the same thing, "New construction? call us when its 50 to 75% occupied, we can help". Ehh.

gigil having the same problem i dont want to be forced to go with fairmont at 25% occupied big problem .might not go through with my intentions if i am not protected. most lenders want 70% it makes you wonder whats up with fairmont and the building

You can speak to Nick De Simone, a Loan Officer with the NJ lenders.(973) 200-3244

What's the downside to going with a mortgage company that only requires 25% occupied or in contract?

Most likely Fairmont is holding the construction loan on this place and are really helping themselves recouping that money by providing the loans.

Hi all. Thought I might join in the discussion and throw my recent experiences in.
I have also reserved a unit (1BR), but am not feeling particularly great about the way the sales are going. I have heard the same party line from the agent that has been posted here but despite them telling me every time that sales are "hot", the sponsor's attorney tells me the same # are in contract every time. They have not made any concessions on price/fees etc... so now I am working with their attorney to include some protection contingencies. I am curious if anyone successfully negotiated buyer contingencies, and if so, what kind? Like many people here, I think it is going to be a good building also (finishes, amenities etc...) but there are too many uncertainties given the market and economy.

...i have also had discussions with the Fairmont guy. he had pretty accurate numbers and fair costs on the mortgage but i agree, that closing on 20% makes it seem like there is some inside benefit which makes me worry. no other bank i have met with, even small private ones that do not have to deal with the Fannie/Freddie mess, are willing to go that low because of the high risk involved with increased costs to owners if sales stay low.

Hey Saint let us know If you have any luck with your contingencies? They seem to stand their ground with their offer and their price.

saintanger absolutely agree .dont know what to do . i am negotiating now and i am feeling uneasy about the whole thing they need to protect their buyers we are not their enemies they need us.

Thank you Todd for the Info.

Gigi, How did this guy Nick turn out?

Hi Ralph. I have not contacted Nick Yet. He is on my list. I will let you know if or when I do contact him.

Was there for open house 2 weeks ago and told 17 units reserved. How come none of them are in contract now? They try to sell more unit by cheating? Or anything goes on!

Snoop did you really buy that story? I smell a rental building

Has anyone been to a recent open house? What was your read on it?

I have been to their open house and the layout is very nice, as well as the proximity to the train stations. I don't understand why they will not drop their prices. The house market is still not doing well. The early bird special has been going on since April and now they claim it will end in July. How can it end if no one is buying. I say don't give them the upper hand in this economy. We are the buyers, ride the wave until they are ready for their closing. You may get a better deal, if everyone holds out and NOT go into contract, price will have to be lowered. Just thoughts....

I agree with butterfly 100%. Buyers have unprecedented advantage that should be taken advantage of. Also, prices seem "more reasonable" than the past few years but we have to keep in mind we're comparing to the insanely high prices of the past 5 years. I think the prices are still unreasonably high.

Another thought to add. Who knows what interest rates will be by the time they close. It is too early to lock in an interest rate. Yes, we are at an all time low with the interest rates we are currently seeing, but what if rates are at 6% or more when it is time for you to close. How much will you be paying?? I cannot predict the future, but it is best to play safe. Just thoughts....

10% off for April did not have much impact. The surprise extension after April does little to help trust. But then again, they didn't say the 10% off was JUST for April. So, the 10% off may really be ending this month, because in August they will test for 15% off. Then eventually this puppy goes rental.

July 31 countdown. What's next?? Extension? If so, for how long and what is the percentage? No discount, but off price bids accepted? Dare I say a price increase? Fill the place up with Goldman Sachs bonus babies? You decide...........

I'm as curious as you to see what transpires here. Well, the GS crowd will probably not likely be living in Gowanus - peer pressure there to overpay by several $$$/sq ft for the manhattan address is tremendous. I do agree with you that off price bids will be accepted (they probably don't want to cry wolf twice with an extension). What would you do for damage control as a slick marketer? I'd announce July 31 - it's well known in persuasion that giving a deadline spurs a call to action for people that are on the fence. Overstating pct in contract for social proof to create more demand is another. After you sign up the few low hanging fruit that are the impressionable buyers on the fence, you're still left with the rest of the 156 units to sell in a market that's not going back up anytime soon. But at least you signed up a few more buyers, right? Price increase? I doubt it.

...but price decrease is the question. I doubt that either...

Well they do have 16 in contract now....!!!!!!!! I think that they have a few people on the fence, but I'm not sure if they are ready to jump, even if the 10% deadline is approaching. The market is still not turning around as well as the economy. It's hard to commit in these times and the sales agents are not the most helpful they act as if they are doing us a favor instead of trying to help us make a deal.

"they act as if they are doing us a favor instead of trying to help us make a deal"

Let's say there are 10 buyers that will bite on the 10% off in their heart of hearts and another 10 buyers that will only buy at 15% off for example. If they were more "helpful" they'd be sacrificing their profit on the first 10 buyers. The trick is to play hard to get to lock in the first 10 buyers, then after the discount period, accept offers at 15% off. If you were a 15% off buyer, they'd eventually get to you soon enough. IOW, they don't gain anything by acting desperate from the beginning and neither do you.

Hey all - checking in again. I agree w/ nevetstaco on 2 points - one, there are quite a few people "on the fence", myself included and two, the agents are not providing any help at the point where you are deciding whether or not to sign. All you get is the same sales pitch lines and no information. I have spoken with the sponsor's attorney a few times already and they still are not caving in to anything despite the market & economy showing no signs of improvement. Of course it has been accurately said here a few times, price negotiation is out. But I tried to get a few contingencies into the agreement terms, such a price protection clause but they are having none of it. It seems their position is holding out as long as possible at the current offer and wait for more sales trickle in. If sales keep tricking in, they have no incentive to do anything but keep the status quo, especially since their "preferred lender" is closing at 25%. Has anyone spoken to this lender and gotten a sense of why they are closing on such a low occupancy rate?

"But I tried to get a few contingencies into the agreement terms, such a price protection clause but they are having none of it."

This is a smart on your part if you are on the fence. Their response is a sign that prices will go lower at some point, because if it is true that the 10% discount period is ending, they want to keep the option of accepting off price bids lower than 10%. Very interesting.

Well, I tried giving a reasonable offer for one of their units and was flat out told that they will not negotiate, not even 10% early bird and closing costs. That's ridiculous! They are not in prime Park Slope, they are on the Gowanus side of 4th ave, per sq.ft. they are $100 overpriced than Park Slope and I don't think they have even closed at 20% yet. I've never heard of their mortgage lender and it bothers me that I wouldn't be able to shop around. I'd rather wait until the building is finished and see how many units they did close on before I consider. Maybe by then, they will start negotiating.

Snowball119: you are right. See new York times this weekend and it mentioned that one Brooklyn still has 300 units unsold!!! Btw. This is 100th message here!!!

500 is nice but not price and location. Again, I want to make sure this is 100th comment here!

I'm interested when they get real on pricing. Sorry, but that location can't go for what they're asking per sq. ft. Looking forward to seeing what happens when the "early bird" is done. Anyone notice that only 1BRs are moving? I wonder why that is?