FIGHTING WORDS about LIC and other fringe areas

Don't get me wrong, there are "fringe" neighbhorhoods I like, but I think this understates it. I believe plenty in Central Harlem, for example, is already $500-$600 psf. I see under $500 psf in the near future ...

You can buy apartments in areas of Manhattan that I would call neither fringe nor prime for $700 psf - Murray Hill, LES, Upper East side west of Lexington.

THis article was about doorman luxury bldgs that are new versus nearly new (like 2006).

don't tell Ericho75.....

Keith, this is a really silly quote. Harlem, WH, Inwood, and most of Brooklyn are already well under $700 psf. My guess is if you averaged the areas you mentioned above you would already be right. Quite the prognosticator, how about telling us what is going to happen to GM yesterday?

JM, the article was about new luxury buildings. you can find lower prices, but there's still a ton of overpriced product out there. 5th on the Park, SoHa 118, and more. I don't look in LIC or Brooklyn, generally, but the stuff i have seen still doesn't seem that hugely discounted to Manhattan.

i'm seeing under $500 psf for some Harlem properties, but by no means most.

AR, you mean I have to read the article before snarking about it?

of course not!! why wreck some fine SE traditions like that.

JM, I think it depends on how many snarks you want to use up.

Please, those are not fighting words about LIC. THESE are fighting words about LIC:

Rhino86 - "Enjoy LICC you 20-something dope. Its a shithole. That you and others will pay 600/ft there doesn't prove that its not...The proof is in the seeing, which I have."

columbiacountry - "LIC makes the bottom of the east river look good."

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/11652-question-for-urbandigs?page=2

Didn't we address this a couple of weeks ago and no one was able to provide examples of buildings in prive Manhattan neighborhoods that were even close to $700psf?

LIC is at least 25% below Manhattan prices.

LIC reminds me of my very first impression of India. On the drive from the Bombay airport, I was puzzled as to what so many people were doing on the side of the highway, squatting, carrying containers of some sort. Of course it hit me soon thereafter that I was witnessing the world's largest public toilet.

When I drive through LIC I get the same vibe.

"Didn't we address this a couple of weeks ago and no one was able to provide examples of buildings in prive Manhattan neighborhoods that were even close to $700psf?"

Clearly we didn't address it enough... because several were found that did match that.

New development in LIC is currently selling in the 500-600 range. I don't believe new developments in Manhattan are selling in the 600-700 range.

It's the same 5-6 people that i'm debating every damn day.
Same set of morons going on about the economy still collapsing with no end in sight despite the recent economic data.

alrighty ericho75.... i'm doing my f'n best McEnroe impression, naked (as usual), while braiding my pubic hairz into a quad corn row... and gota give you some examples, cause this has got to be one of your most stupid comments ever.... right up there with "if she said she came... then she did right, right fellas?

just go to SE search and do Manhattan $0psf to $800psf... (I know I knowz it's 14.3% above the magical $700psf, but I would think if you went in w/o a broker 3% off the bat, any listing listed more than 3 months gotz 10% give no problem)... so any listing that is at $800psf... can be had for your $700psf... not a problem... (ask me and I'll show you how it's done... hell I'll show you how I gotZ a 2007 997T for $81.5K CPO with the phat exhaust)... drum roll pls... no seriously make the drum roll noise FOOL.... ............. ..... I'm waiting......... come on you douche...................I can wait for a long time............ alrighty... the NUMBER IS:

2851..... yes... there's no period in it... that's just a smudge on your computer screen.... 2851....... 2851.... NOW tell me you're happy with your purchase.... LMAO... you're lucky I'm a little tired... the little bugger kept waking up last nite... he was having a dream about sperm whales..... last month it was T-Rex.....

we like to think of ourselves as "we few, we happy few, we band of brothers." Do you like Pushkin instead?

Please.....do...soo...

List...me.....5....different...new developments..in N...Y....C...where...i can...get...prices...in....the 600-700 dollar r...a..nge....t..han..ks......I....

"2007 997T for $81.5K CPO with the phat exhaust"

Go...ahead...and tell me...how..u...got..it done, please....you richie ric...h. I thought i'm the e....rich 075 guy......sorry if i'm not as rich and well...off as you are...and you...need to wait for another 10-20% drop in housing...for you to ....afford a un...it.

Anyway, no, Harlem, LIC, FIDI, etc NEW DOORMAN luxury buildings have NOT been under 700 SF, although here and there there is evidence they are moving there. But the few transactions that have been done in 2009 and the asking prices still point to over 1,000 PSF. This article, which was ONLY ABOUT LUXURY BRAND NEW DOORMAN BUILDINGS, was saying that they could move in the direction.

I am talking on average.

I think of course realistically some foreclosed bldgs that don't go rental will see $500 or less...

"It's the same 5-6 people that i'm debating every damn day.
Same set of morons going on about the economy still collapsing with no end in sight despite the recent economic data. "

The same moron has trouble reading... ericho, reread the posts and show us where we said *new* devs are $700...

That being said, you've already got 20 pine at $740 psf, and thats negotiable I'm sure.

classy... you know my daughter and son play the "you're copying me game." really cute on a handsome 3 yo, not so cute on an idiot equity trader about to lose his over-leveraged shirt on the recently joyous LIC RE purchase, don't worry there isn't a "true" M2M, unless you like to know these thingz.. but why the hell would you be on SE?

now it's "new development".... do you tell your wife, it was a blowjob so it's not "sex" and therefore it's no grounds for divorce...

Here's how it's done. There were 150 997T for sale on Cars.com between $90 to $110K. I took my favorite ten and e-mailed them the "mkt" situation, an all $ deal and looking to do deal within the week and my offer of $80K. Got 6 emails back asking me to call. Three offered $83K... I took my favorite color and said $80K, guy said $82K, I said, $81, plus they install a sport shifter (the only option that was missing). The car sales guy (crying at this point) said, how about $81.5K w/ sport shifter, I felt sorry for him said okay. I called to thank him when the car arrived, found out he was not longer a car salesman there... :(

I hope my deal wasn't what caused him to lose the deal....-shrug-

What an analogy to the NYC RE mkt, no? Adios or r u coming back to LIC? I can't tell w/ your misplaced modifiers... seriously one of my pet peeves.... yeh yeh... i type like a monkey.... u ever heard of Dave Chapelle?

He did say new development comparison.

"New development in LIC is currently selling in the 500-600 range. I don't believe new developments in Manhattan are selling in the 600-700 range."

"now it's "new development".... do you tell your wife, it was a blowjob so it's not "sex" and therefore it's no grounds for divorce..."
Why so aggressive? Show us some listing that is only 20-30% above LIC prices.

Wow, thanks for quoting me. That was excellent. I love how $600/ft in LICC is a bargain because $800/ft in Manhattan has become the norm. Buying fringe at the top, or shortly thereafter has never been a winning proposition...even when the S&P is up 35% off the bottom (barely up YTD after 2008 destruction)...Whew hew lets have a ticker tape parade. Green shoots to smoke for everyone.

having a funny day...LIC should trade at 50% (minimum) discount to manhattan.

and, by the way, its actually queens, not@$%$%@LIC. that's just more marketing crap.

CarolSt, why should i? he's wrong. i did a search for manhattan properties, excluding upper manhattan, today for less than $800 psf and i got 1700, i believe. far more than 10% of the lower 96 st. market given how many harlem properties there are. yes, some were challenged, and no, most of them i wouldn't find tempting in the slightest. but i also wouldn't find a declining market tempting. and i went through hundreds of the listings one by one. abuse my focus if you will, but i have a damned fine ability to notice market trends.

the first LIC listing i pulled up was for $732 psf, at 509 48th avenue. toll brothers.

What's with this Ericho75 guy that get you so worked up?
I've read a number of his post and not once did he mention real estate prices will recovery this year or anytime soon.
His message seems clear and even thought i disagree with him, i think he has every right to voice his opinion.

I've been to LIC numerous times over the years to watch the July 4th firework. The neighbor has changed quite a bit and looks great. I personally won't buy there but i can see how others might.

"Wow, thanks for quoting me. That was excellent. "

I'm confused, that quote was from Ericho75.

why wouldn't you buy there? isn't that precisely the point?

CarolSt.... that's how w67thstreet rollz....

let me guess.. you don't know dave chapelle either?

carolst, i think it had something to do, at least for me, with his desire to force feeding me fatty food until the oils leaked out of my ass.

CC,
I won't buy there because of my commute (i work downtown). The neighbor has changed tremendously over the years but it's still lacks a lot of things that make living in NYC great. The QueensWest project in Hunter's point is one of the few New York City sponsor projects that will continue to move forward regardless the economic times. There's talk of additional schools, parks, movie theaters and commercial space right on the water front. It might get there some day, but as of today it doesn't meet my needs.

so...what's it worth? i suggested 50% less than manhattan...does that make sense to you?

AR,
That's horrible.

For me, i can't say because it's not an option for me. It's like asking how pork taste because i never had it before. I simply don't have an answer for you. My husband and I would love to buy a semi-new development (90+ % occupancy) space for about 700 dollar per square foot. Currently, we're not finding any. If you bears are correct, a bunch will fall on our lap later on this year.

fair enough but then not fair to have an opinion of any kind on pork. right?

"I personally won't buy there but i can see how others might."

so, i don't eat pork (because i find it disgusting) but can see how others might? very difficult logic to follow.

so, I don't jump out of windows (because its fatal) but I can see how others might? really?

I don't live in queens and I'm glad i don't have to.

"so, i don't eat pork (because i find it disgusting) but can see how others might? very difficult logic to follow."

Well, if someone tells me they like the taste of pork, who am i to say he's wrong?
If someone likes being in the waterfront and have views of the river, who am i to say s/he is wrong...

I hope that clears it.

"so, I don't jump out of windows (because its fatal) but I can see how others might? really?"
We hear about it all the time on the news.

In all, i have an open mind to other peoples opinion.

so...your value add is to agree with any and all opinions. if someone believes it, it must be ok?

sorry, but i think this attitude is a significant problem. no one seems to want to tell it like it is for fear of appearing difficult.

yuck.

cc, i think carolst may have just had the misfortune to arrive at a time when her general economic thoughts may have coincided with a poster we didn't quite care for.

carolst, if you're not a new name for an old poster, and you have any questions, please feel free to post, with hopefully some civility offered you. but you may have a long road to haul if you think certain hoods won't depreciate.

aboutready, I'm glad you're one of the few outwardly being civil towards opposing viewpoints and working to make this board work, but a lot of the attitudes here have effectively rendered this a "bears" club where posters spend a lot of time patting each other on the back, eviscerating anything else, and generally not offering a lot to otherwise interesting discussions. I don't think it's unreasonable to call for a little more balance and a little more welcoming attitude to people like CarolSt. I've been on this board quite a while, and yes, some of the "bulls" were pretty bad, but that doesn't justify any of it. End rant.

welcome carolst...so nice to know that you're so agreeable...everyone has something to say that's important and its important for us to all listen and agree. don't you agree?

Let's compare apples-apples - most LIC properties discussed here are new development condos (please correct me if I am wrong) - just did a search on Manhattan condos under $700 psf and returned - note the vast majority are in Upper Manhattan and I didn't select "New Development" (that drops total number down to 332):

Sales in Manhattan
We found 496 Condos for no more than $700 per ft²
Median price: $579,000 Median size: 1,021 ft² Median price per ft²: $597
Information on Manhattan

Expand your search
NYC (2,395)

Narrow your search
All Upper Manhattan (417) All Downtown (22) All Upper West Side (16) All Midtown (11) All Upper East Side (4) Roosevelt Island (2)

Ahhh, but I bet all the LIC comparables are DOOMRAN and none of the below 96th ones are doorman.

You are in fantasyland if you think the market for good Manhattan apartments in prime neighborhoods is under $800psf.

LIC, would you be looking in Manhattan, then? getting tired of LIC? i'm seeing prices crater, and yes, i'm seeing some listings even in the $600s psf range, quite a few in the $700s, and impossible to tell what they are closing for. take a look see at the price chopper and market movement threads for some eye-poppin' info. and one person's "prime" is another person's crap. and the reverse.

This is what happens when comments are taken out of context...

I live in Washington Heights and was confused by the article, too. We went up there BECAUSE it was well below market during the boom. Of course in a bust it will drop.

"Wow, thanks for quoting me. That was excellent. I love how $600/ft in LICC is a bargain because $800/ft in Manhattan has become the norm. Buying fringe at the top, or shortly thereafter has never been a winning proposition...even when the S&P is up 35% off the bottom (barely up YTD after 2008 destruction)...Whew hew lets have a ticker tape parade. Green shoots to smoke for everyone. "

Well said...

"LIC, would you be looking in Manhattan, then? getting tired of LIC? i'm seeing prices crater, and yes, i'm seeing some listings even in the $600s psf range, quite a few in the $700s, and impossible to tell what they are closing for. take a look see at the price chopper and market movement threads for some eye-poppin' info. and one person's "prime" is another person's crap. and the reverse."

I think I said this a while back... but, the first few examples someone doesn't like are "exceptions".... I think we're now reached a point where everything is an "exception".

When exceptions are the rule, time to try a new ballgame.

Not sure if you guys caught the $556 psf E 38 listing.... doorman, pool, decks, etc.

If you take LIC's old LIC should track by 70% line....

Thats now an under $400 target for LIC.

And everyone on that thread pointed out how shady that listing is, which means everyone here can see how everything you say is nonsense.

"which means everyone here can see how everything you say is nonsense."

You know what I say? That LICC NEVER EVER uses hyperbole. Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ha, ha.

Damn, dude is SO bitter.

"1505 just closed at $660 for 1100 sq ft, $600 psf"

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/10159-20-pine

So let me get this straight.
People are buying LIC instead of Manhattan? The powerhouse contracts are in the 600-700 over the past few weeks.
I guess Manhattan to you must be real shitty. That's right. You live in Manhattan right?

Ouch!

I guess you didn't see the entire article on how folks are abandoning WB and LIC to move back to Manhattan now that they aren't being paid to live in the crappy parts (since the $ gap is closing).

Even at the bargain rates, folks just don't want to live in LIC/WB.

> People are buying LIC instead of Manhattan? The powerhouse contracts are in the 600-700 over the
> past few weeks.

And, I guess you didn't notice that mega dip in sales.

You're talking about contracts from sales from, what, years ago? You have any understanding of the buying process?

LMAO... that's what's so funny... there are morons all around.... anyone buying the last 3 months thinks they are a genius.... until they see a until a unit 10 flrs up trades at 20% below their genius buy....

In bubbles the $ and loss r dispersed randomly.... w/o regard to merit or logic.... that's a bubble....

in your case CarolSt... you bgt at $700psf when manhattan was at $1200psf thinking shit... I'm a genius for 20 minute commute that's $500K savings on 1000 sq ft.... guess what happens when manhattan gets to $700psf? That's right that ratio (man to LIC) stays the same.... It's how unrelated mkts ARE related. A final observation... people that have always made that trade Sunnyside vs. UWS... "value" the their money more i.e. their time is not as valuable as the $.... just an observation.....

It must be one of the 24 one hour periods per day when nyc10022 posts all of his responses on streeteasy.

"I guess you didn't see the entire article on how folks are abandoning WB and LIC to move back to Manhattan now that they aren't being paid to live in the crappy parts (since the $ gap is closing).

Even at the bargain rates, folks just don't want to live in LIC/WB."

If that's the case, we're not seeing it in the number of units going into contract in LIC/WB the last few weeks.

"And, I guess you didn't notice that mega dip in sales.

You're talking about contracts from sales from, what, years ago? You have any understanding of the buying process?"

Mega dips?
Pull up the rolling sales data in Acris.

w67thstreet,
I'm not going to comment on what you wrote.
Sorry, but i can't understand it. You really need to go back to school. I can't see how someone with 801 SAT score can even write something like that.

Try hook on phonics. They're running specials.

http://www.hookedonphonics.com/ProductDetail.aspx?C1=2&C1=18&CategoryID=28&ProductID=27

Carol, if you can't understand what he wrote, its you who needs to go back to school. This isn't the first thread you've missed the boat on...

carolst is a broker...watch out.

I'm not sure why it upsets some people that LIC has become very popular. People who never go there seem to get the most upset.

carolst is a dirty lying stinking hiding broker...that's whats upsetting.

LIC has become so popular that Duane Reade is thinking of opening not 1 DR there, but 2. Hooray!

I'm sure Whole Foods is next. Or was it Whore Foods?

how is either LIC or WB fringe? what the hell is that? i live in WB, can walk to a zillion restaurants, shops, bars, etc... Time Out just this weeks lists the best hair stylist in the city as working in WB. i take car services home from work all the time, and it usually takes less than 15 minutes from SOHO. the subway is around the corner. now, i looked years back in parts of kensington, and that is for sure fringe. i once walked 20 minutes and couldn't find a damn cup of coffee.

also, the art scene in WB is huge and thriving. major openings tonight and tomorrow. live indie music scene has already exploded.

what the hell is everyone saying? that the upper west is convenient? wonderful? sorry, uptown sucks and downtown is a zoo. full of tourists and chain stores. no thanks. i could've bought in manhattan before and didn't and have no desire to now. get real. manhattan is not even remotely cool. maybe if you are some finance dork.

ColumbiaCounty,

At what point did i lie? You're just a typical 40+ year old idiot that can't afford to buy in Manhattan and pretend to live it up by renting. Your comments are by far the dumbest of them all. Show me a thread where you contribute to anything beside name calling?

you failed to identify yourself as a broker.

I don't need to identify myself.
I'm not promoting or selling anything on these boards.

Why don't you identify yourself? How bout a 40+ year old living with your parent.

Didn't Rabbit put you in your place last night?
You're a piece of shit.

A fucking piece of shit.

A low life piece of shit.

you're right about one thing: you no longer need to identify yourself as a broker...i'll take care of that for you.

I might be a broker.
I might not be a broker.
But YOU..you're a piece of shit.

CarolSt, you really should take up heavy drinking ... it'll calm your nerves and ground you.

How it feel now? To get name call.
I'm surprise no one used your tactics.

You low life can't afford anything piece of shit.

Fuck you too alanhart.
You're all the same person.

As soon as one of your gang members get raided, all of you post.
You're all.

maybe mixing in some sedatives as well?

i guess that broker stuff cut a little too close? whoops.

and anitpsychotics.

Go ahead.
Tell us how you save hundreds of thousands of dollars renting since 2004.
Who the fuck are you kidding! Who the fuck will rent you a 1 million dollar apart in 2004 for 2,750 a month. You're just a liar! A wannabe Manhattan baller.

Only thing i'm cutting is your allowance from your parents CC.
Go get a fucking job. Stop hanging out on these boards.

don't hold back...tell us how you really feel.

Same to you too alanhart you loser.
Go find a job. You all need it to save so you can BUY a fucking place.

hey...no commissions for six months can get to anybody.

I'm not holding back.
I'm being nice. You are a real piece of shit. You've been name calling people left and right that disagree with you. So here, i'm just like you now.

Go fuck yourself now.

Who said i need to work?
Like you, i chill at home all day but unlike you i have the money to live it up.

somebody's snapped. maintaining the facade of positive real estate mojo has become overwhelming.

carolst, i'd hate for you to have any positive thoughts about me, so good on you.

ever notice how it REALLY bothers people when people who have money decide not to buy?

you loserrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!

Only thing snap is that pea brain of yours AR. YOU HAVE NO MONEY! THAT'S WHY YOU ARE RENTING.
PEOPLE WITH MONEY DON'T ACT LIKE YOU GUYS.

You pretend to be rich. I don't know one rich person that need to shack it up in a 2,700 walk up rental.
And you have a family too?

amusing.

i think this is for real. Now I feel sorry for her.

The thing that bothers me is how stupid you people are.
If you have NO money! Stop acting like you do!

People with money don't live in a 2,700 walk up 2 bedroom apartment.

uh oh...you speak for the world?