Another fantastic waterfront park opens in LIC

okay, I walked through LICC yesterday (not shopping)
you're leaving out LICC's best asset: it is quiet
that means you do not hear loud music outdoors, even in
a park on July 5th
that means you do not hear car and truck traffic
that means you do not hear loud, screaming people
this is more impressive than accessibility to Manhattan,
because it is something you do not find in other areas
that people rave about proximity to Manhattan
it is probably a function of the fact that before all
those highrises went up, there was no "there" in LIC

It will become the Homeless Riviera.

Good old steve, full of hate and bitterness . . .

HAHAHA, LICC!

All I did was copy one of the blog entries on the very website you linked to. Guess you don't read all the way to what's under what you want to hear.

HAHAHA!

Wow! That's awesome looking.
I was just by there 2 weekends ago, the addition looks great! Did i mention that there are quite a number of young female models in the neighborhood.

that's right.... over the 4th all these "MODELS" were standing on the corners and walking up to cars as they slowly drove by..... you mean those MODELS?

No sir.
I've saw quite a number of models sun bathing on the grass area right on the water front.

No reason for me to lie about this.

steve thinks that since he copied that line from someplace else, that makes him not old, hateful and bitter??

"Did i mention that there are quite a number of young female models in the neighborhood."

This is the kind of cheesy broker shilling that inspires negative comments. I'm sure the park is nice. I'll probably be enjoying one of those hammocks on a bike ride at some point, but when you start with crap like that it makes me want to point out that 3 or 4 blocks away from Gantry Park LIC becomes a wasteland dotted with underperforming condos.

Where is this "wasteland" exactly? That was just another clueless comment from someone who doesn't know the area.

"This is the kind of cheesy broker shilling that inspires negative comments."

I don't know about that tenemental. There are bunches of dumb models all over the city, why wouldn't LIC have a fair share?

Hey, my wife is a model and she's brilliant!

Very nice.

"There are bunches of dumb models all over the city, why wouldn't LIC have a fair share?"

Exactly, JuiceMan! We're making the same point.

LICComment, I biked over the Pulaski last week to make a stop in Gantry Park after visiting East River State Park in WB. I have no more than a "passing through" interest in LIC so I don't know the exact streets, but once you get north or east of the Vernon/Jackson subway stop, LIC hasn't changed much.

The L Haus marinades in auto exhaust. Taking a look at the SE New Development map for LIC, there's Arris Lofts butted up against the LIRR tracks, there's Star Tower, which I stared at in disbelief when I first saw its location. There's Crescent Club, 27-16 41st Avenue and Queens Plaza on the north side of the Queensboro Bridge... Most of LIC is still it's old industrial self, with the exception of a small area surrounding a pretty park.

New parks are great. If InFamous didn't start with the silliness I wouldn't have felt any need to mention this stuff, but it's like joining a buddy who's being shown an apartment by a broker. There's black mold on the bathroom ceiling and the broker keeps him in the kitchen where he's talking up the new appliances. You just feel a need to point something out.

North of the Vernon Jackson stop is Vernon Boulevard. East is Jackson Avenue. Neither is a "wasteland" at all. Walking up Jackson takes you past new condos, restaurants, some bars and shops, then the PS1 Museum, then the courthouse and the Citi Building. Walking up Vernon takes you past retail, restaurants, etc., with condos and attached houses on either side. Yes, Queens Plaza still needs work, but that is where millions of city dollars are being used on enhancing it, and that is much farther than "3 or 4 blocks" from Gantry Park.

"Most of LIC is still it's old industrial self, with the exception of a small area surrounding a pretty park."

Isn't that the same in every neighbor you go in NYC? Even in Manhattan, aren't you a few blocks from a project? Or a homeless shelter? People make Manhattan look like paradise when it isn't.

Actually, Manhattan is paradise. You're just jealous that you have to live in Queens.

InFamous, you and LICC need to get your stories straight. He's been telling us for ages about the incredible transformation taking place in LIC.

"Isn't that the same in every neighbor you go in NYC? Even in Manhattan, aren't you a few blocks from a project? Or a homeless shelter? People make Manhattan look like paradise when it isn't."

There's a whole lot of Manhattan I wouldn't want to live in (some of it considered prime), though usually people are talking about a larger "nice" area with a nearby rough patch. In the case of LIC, the proportions are reversed.

I would rather live in Chinatown than live in LIC.

If you are going to talk about LIC, it's important to distinguish between the Vernon Jackson stop ( the area within roughly 4 blocks of the waterfront ) and everything else. The area around the courthouse and the 59th street bridge is very unappealing. Calling it a 'wasteland' is not that far off. Tenemental is right calling the proportions reversed. Still, the area around the park is a great neighborhood, albeit a small one. No, there are not the same amount of services one might find on the UWS, but there are also less people to deal with and the property is a lot cheaper. IMO, Gantry park is the nicest view in all 5 boroughs. Not all the buildings in this area are failing. 5SL, the Gantry, 10-63, 10-50 are all over 70% sold. There are great bars and restaurants to go to. Hey, if you are arguing that LIC is a fully developed neighborhood, then no way. And that's coming from someone about to move there. I think the vernon jackson area is great for me, but I can't argue it is the 'premiere' neighborhood of NYC.

Thanks, mwade, that's exactly what I was talking about. I was considering changing my bike route tonight and heading to the QB Bridge so I could name the "cutoff streets," but after your post I think I'll stick with my sunset-in-Dumbo plan. I will get there, though, to check out the hammocks.

Enjoy your new digs.

"that makes him not old, hateful and bitter"

It doesn't make me anything but HAPPY NOT TO LIVE IN LONG ISLAND CITY!

I remember visiting my poverty-striken grandparents there, Down Under the Triboro Bridge!

tenemental - more on your bike tours - I love it
I have to admit, I did not only walk around LICC;
it was a very long, 8-hour stroll through much
more than that - I was curious about the big
church steeples in Greenpoint, and curious to see
whether it's still as Polish as it was, and after
wandering around GP, my feet could not bring me to
check out WB, but instead I did a jaunt through
Bedford-Stuyvesant, Crown Heights, Midwood, Gravesend,
Manhattan Beach - what else did you see on your bike ride?

I totally "get" being happy not to live in LICC.
But for some people it would be a very nice place.
What I do not agree with is the RE PR stuff that
came out in about '07 in the news claiming that LIC
was not a destination, rather than somewhere people
lived because they had no choice.

With all that new construction, some people will be
able to get good prices out there. I don't know
what LIC will be eventually, but it's not hard to
imagine at this stage that there will be grocery
stores, more restaurants, dry cleaners (ahem....)
and a few other "amenities." It is NOT Manhattan.
Now think of neighborhoods like Park Slope where
people pretend that they ARE in Manhattan, or
Brooklyn Heights, where they think they're BETTER
than Manhattan. LIC is very different. It is
a version of Battery Park City without a geometrical
street grid placed down in the middle of what has
been - sorry - not industrial, but WAREHOUSE space.

If you want a quiet neighborhood, you could have it
in LIC. That could mean deadsville, very boring for
some people. For others it's paradise.

Once again, though, I am absolutely stunned by the
prevalence of new construction condos in all boroughs,
on any ole empty lot of land that could be found, and
it does not bode well for prices. Anyone who thinks
condo prices are headed up anytime soon is high.

Lowery, the best "What the eff? This is awesome." bike find in LIC is Socrates Sculpture Park. It's far from Gantry, closest condo is Piano Factory. You may have missed it, but I thanked you for the bike route a couple months back. Took a trip to Highbridge Park. Some very historical stuff along the way, and who'd guess there are mountain bike trails and a BMX track in Manhattan?

I may be rusty in my land-use terminology (warehouse vs. indsutrial) but wasn't there a lot of light manufacturing, Pepsi, auto-repair shops (still there), that sort of thing? I guess I'm thinking of pollution-generators vs. storage. I know my lungs like the QB less than the other East River bridges.

We have a similar resentment regarding the PR. Obviously "1 stop from Midtown!" pumps up prices better than "A nice neighborhood in Queens."

tenemental, you may be right about light industrial, but I think most of those buildings were storage and distribution - remember the old sugar factory along the WB/GP waterfront? I guess it's being converted to condos now, but I didn't go see. I just know that I used to gape at it back when it was boarded up and empty, before 2000, and it didn't look like it had functioned as a sugar packing plant or anything else for quite some time. Likewise Pepsi.

This has always been a mystery to me. Back when CityLights opened ($30,000 for a 1-brm) people had to drive to Sunnyside or Astoria to do grocery shopping, so who cared that it was closer than those neighborhoods where the stores were??? It was not a nice neighborhood in Queens, though. OTOH, what many people who remember the old LIC can't accept is that it is not the same thing anymore. It has not transformed into Paradise, but neither is it what it was. Also, if you can't get on the subway because it's already jammed by the time it pulls into your station, why is it better to be one stop from Manhattan? But the people who paid $30,000 are having a good laugh now, and I think the people who buy there in this current crash will have the last laugh too.

Did you know they've extended the greenway north of 125th St. on the Hudson? Good bike paths.

The Triboro Bridge (now the Robert F. Kennedy Bridge) is in Astoria. But thanks for another stupid comment steve . . .

I know what and where it is, LICC - it's the dividing line between Astoria and LICC.

At least according to the Post Office.

And the map - the last exit before the bridge is for LIC!

Lowery, are you sure you have your date right for Domino? I thought I remembered the controversy over the closing being more recent and found this:

http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3132

There are plans for condos there (2200 units!), but they're on pause for obvious reasons. It is, however, one of the plans ready to spring into effect the moment there's demand at some point in the future, which any new buyer needs to keep in mind when trying the calculate future value.

Yes, thanks, I did catch the extended westside path. You still go inland for a little while in Harlem, but the route is protected. Great stuff. That same trip to Highbridge took us to the tip of Inwood Hill Park, looking across at Spuyten Duyvil. Amazing.

steve, you are just showing that you are completely ignorant of the area. No one who lives there refers to the area by the Triboro Bridge as LIC. It is Astoria. It is not the dividing line. It is Astoria. That is like someone in Brooklyn saying they live in Long Island, because Brooklyn is part of the same island as Nassau and Suffolk counties. They may be technically correct, but they sound stupid because no one in Brooklyn considers themselves residents of Long Island, which refers to Nassau and Suffolk.

"There are plans for condos there (2200 units!), but they're on pause for obvious reasons. It is, however, one of the plans ready to spring into effect the moment there's demand at some point in the future, which any new buyer needs to keep in mind when trying the calculate future value."

Maybe this deserves its own thread, but I would not hold my breath on Domino. Everything I hear says that if it ever gets done (and it's a very big if at this point), it'll be years from now, probably outside the timeline of many current buyers. I don't know what the plan would be otherwise, but there's been some movement to turn it into more public space. If they do turn them into condos, I'll picket the MTA myself to extend the V across the river, or at least start my own water taxi company. No way the L supports that many new residents without major changes.

"there's been some movement to turn it into more public space"

Interesting, bjw, I hadn't heard about that. I think even Curbed missed that one, so please post news on SE. I'd be curious to hear more about it.

"No one who lives there refers to the area by the Triboro Bridge as LIC."

And no one who lives in a ghetto refers to it as a ghetto. It's "da hood."

steve, last I looked Chelsea was no neighborhood paradise. In fact, it is pretty crummy. Take away the proximity to the Village and Chelsea gets a D-.

I'll take Chelsea over Down Under the Triboro Bridge any day, Juicy.

"Upper Chelsea" - above 23rd Street - is not Chelsea.

I won't live in Chelsea if you paid me.
How them projects on 23rd?

InFamous, there are no projects on 23rd. Those are like Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village - protected middle-class housing owned by what was the Ladies' Garment Workers Union.

The Robert Fulton Houses are on 17th and 10th, next to the High Line and the Gansevoort Hotel and all sorts of other swanky, overpriced places like the Meat Packing District (which is in Greenwich Village, BTW).

Glad you're not moving here, though!

Steve, i visit a friend of mine at the Caldonia pretty often and the projects there are NOT like Stuy Town or PCV. I'm a pretty good sized 25yo guy and I don't feel too comfortable walking passed the crackheads late night.

There is no way in hell i'm going to take a stroll in that neighborhood at 2-3am in the morning.
And there's no way in hell you can compare it to Stuy Town.

That's why steve's rent is so cheap, he lives in Chelsea.

CJ, you're confusing the Robert Fulton Houses on 17th Street with what's on 23rd Street. I don't hang around the Robert Fulton Houses either, but InFamous is referring to a different set of buildings that look like projects, but they aren't.

InFamous - just admit that you were wrong and there are no projects on 23rd Street (because there aren't).

Is $4,700 a month "cheap rent," Juicy? If so, then so be it.

"Glad you're not moving here, though!"

Isn't this what LICC keeps saying to you? Steve can dish it, but can't take it?

stevejhx - You have a fair amount of credibility on this board, and aside from the sarcasms/insults that usually dot your comments (and add nothing to the discussion), I typically enjoy what you have to say.

But in a thread about LIC, you completely misidentify Astoria, yet you lambast InFamous for saying that projects are actually being six blocks north than where it is. How can you expect anyone to take you seriously?

tenemental, about Domino, I have heard neighborhood people talk about promoting alternative uses for the site, mostly centered around art (which I think ties into the neighborhood's recent history rather well). There's a website if you're interested in the details (in particular, click on the two letters linked on the upper right corner): http://www.dominosugar.org/ The 2200 units you mentioned are supposed to be scattered throughout 15 buildings. Even if they move to condos, I highly doubt we'll see that many buildings actually go up, and especially not at the same time.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt - Astoria is much nicer than Long Island City.

Steinway Street is in Astoria, 29th Street is in LIC. What's the difference?

BTW I was born in Astoria General Hospital and my father and many relatives grew up in the Long Island City projects, so I know something about the place.

It's awful.

You can call those buildings on 23rd Street whatever you want, but they are as bad as some NYCHA projects, are not at all comparable to Stuyvesant Town or PCV, and I sure wouldn't want to live near them.

Must be 2 separate worlds here.
The link that LICComment posted was for the waterfront (hunter's point) area in LIC, how you can connect the shadiest part of LIC to it is beyond me.

steve has no credibility. The guy has said the most outlandishly foolish things in these threads for over a year. He doesn't even know where LIC is, hasn't been there in ages, misidentifies Astoria as LIC, but says he knows all about it because his father grew up in the area. I posted a link about another great new part of LIC, I didn't make any comment about any other neighborhood, but then old man steve had to come on and try to disparage other peoples' neighborhood. Meanwhile he lives right next to crummy projects.

"Steinway Street is in Astoria, 29th Street is in LIC. What's the difference?"

About 10 blocks, but who's counting?

"but they are as bad as some NYCHA projects"

If you find little old ladies who used to work in the garment industry dangerous, then I guess you're right, LICC. But then, of course, in your mind, you're ALWAYS right!

Hunter's Point - when they get the parks built on the toxic dumps, you can use it to swim to where you really want to be: MANHATTAN!

Why else would LICC post incessantly about Manhattan real estate unless he wants to live here?

Sure steve, the only people living in those projects are little old ladies. I guess that was another one of your highly credible comments . . .

LICC, you are now truly an idiot:

http://www.pennsouth.coop/publichome.htm

It's a income-protected co-op with a multiyear waiting list to get in.

What a fool you make of yourself every time you post.

steve, so I guess the Chelsea, Chelsea Addition and John Lovejoy NYCHA projects between 9th and 10th avenues between 25th and 28th streets just don't count? Who is the fool?

Chelsea Houses has two 21-story buildings with 425 apartments. Completed May 31, 1964, the 1.93-acre Manhattan development is on Ninth Avenue between West 25th and West 26th Streets.
John Lovejoy Elliott Houses consists of four buildings, 11 and 12-stories tall with 607 apartments. Completed July 15, 1947, the 4.70-acre Manhattan development is bordered by West 25th Street, Ninth and Tenth Avenues, and Chelsea Park.

And the Fulton House projects are from 16th to 20th streets between 9th and 10th avenues.

I told you, LICC, the traditional boundary for Chelsea is 23rd Street. I'm responding to InFamous' and your stupid posts about projects on 23rd Street.

I no more think that those projects affect Chelsea than I think the projects in Long Island City affect Hunt's Point. They don't.

I live in Manhattan my whole life and i've been to Chelsea many times, including trying to court my wife during my high school days at Chelsea Cinemas. I don't care what you say, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck..it's probably a duck.

"I told you, LICC, the traditional boundary for Chelsea is 23rd Street. I'm responding to InFamous' and your stupid posts about projects on 23rd Street."

What about the projects around 18th? They cover several blocks I think. And Chelsea is generally accepted to go well past 23rd - not sure why you're denying that there are projects in the area, it's pretty common knowledge.

steve, then why do you bring up the Triboro Bridge to criticize the Hunters Point area of LIC when it isn't even close by? Not that Astoria is a bad area at all, but you are just mixing things up and it shows that you keep giving opinions about things that you don't know.

You can say that the projects in Chelsea don't affect the area and that it is still a nice place to live, but to deny that there are projects in the Chelsea area is just weird.

The majority of folks jumping on steve are doing so because they didn't read well.

Steve simply said the buildings on 23rd weren't projects - which someone else claimed they were.

Pointing out things on 18th street has nothing to do with that.

"Is $4,700 a month "cheap rent," Juicy? If so, then so be it."

No, that is much more expensive than I would pay to live near all those projects. Not to mention Chelsea.

By the way, I guess you weren’t very successful renegotiating your rent this year. All talk, no action, poor steve….

stevejhx - “I pay about $4,500 per month for a 900 ft2 2-br 2-ba apartment in a good building in Chelsea.”

"Steve simply said the buildings on 23rd weren't projects - which someone else claimed they were.
Pointing out things on 18th street has nothing to do with that."

That's true, there are no projects on 23rd (that I'm aware of anyway), but he certainly has an infatuation with mocking LIC for being close to projects, while ignoring that Chelsea has its fair share as well. Nothing wrong with pointing that out, so why are you policing other people's posts, hall monitor?

"Is $4,700 a month "cheap rent," Juicy? If so, then so be it."

This is a joke right?
So Steve drops 54K a year on rent???? In 2 years, he's over 110K in the hole.
Oh my!

> Nothing wrong with pointing that out, so why are you policing other people's posts, hall monitor?

That you don't understand what a hall monitor is is probably why you're such a lousy one.

although this time, at least you admitted you were wrong.... so maybe you're finally learning something.

"although this time, at least you admitted you were wrong.... so maybe you're finally learning something."

Do tell what I was wrong about? You're clueless, as usual.

Its always the most clueless who call others clueless....

hey nyc10022 & bjw2103, take your bickering elsewhere. This thread is about steve throwing rocks in a glass house.

I thought this thread was about you telling us that Chelsea is an undesirable neighborhood, unlike LIC.

Sorry JuiceMan, all that "model" talk got me riled up.

bjw, thanks for the link.

It just drives me crazy when these threads come completely off the tracks. LICC, make your points but please skip the hyperbole--it serves no one.

The buildings in Chelsea in the mid-20's are, just as Steve says, middle-income housing. They account for about 0% of the crime reported in Chelsea and are not projects in any commonly understood meaning of the word. They may lack any architectural merit (but then again, so does the Caledonia IMO) and they may be plopped in a sort of bleak stretch of the city between Chelsea "proper" and Penn Station, but the buildings are full of regular Joe's like a zillion others in Manhattan.

There is no intelligent discussion to be had comparing these Chelsea buildings in the 20s to the Queensbridge or Ravenswood Houses. I don't know LIC and have no idea of the proximity of any crime pockets to the new developments, but I do know about crime and the Queensbridge Houses (the largest public housing project in the U.S.) and Ravenswood--and it is bad. Relatively speaking in terms of any area or neighborhood in all of NYC, these places are bad and huge.

The projects definitely have some negative impact on Chelsea. Just as the ones on the UWS do... or the LES. Certainly not a positive effect.

But using this to say Chelsea is not desirable and LIC is... wow. Somebody picked up the brokerspeak big time.

"But using this to say Chelsea is not desirable and LIC is... wow. Somebody picked up the brokerspeak big time."

This thread was started merely to note the opening of the waterfront park in the neighborhood, not to discuss Chelsea at all. A few people showed up merely to bash LIC; that's why these threads get sidetracked.

The point is, why constantly crap on any neighborhood? How many "LIC sucks" threads can there be? If you don't like it, don't move there. The point in bringing up Chelsea is that it has its own warts and the geniuses that constantly lob bombs on other neighborhoods forget that many people hate the neighborhoods they live in. You have two renters from Chelsea and the UES constantly commenting about how crappy LIC is. Does anyone else see irony in that?

"not sure why you're denying that there are projects in the area"

No one denied that. What I denied is that there are projects on 23rd Street, which there are not.

"he certainly has an infatuation with mocking LIC for being close to project"

Never did such a thing.

"You have two renters from Chelsea and the UES constantly commenting about how crappy LIC is. Does anyone else see irony in that?"

And one dentist constantly saying that there was no bubble in Manhattan real estate who has yet to post any credible numbers to support anything he says, except an academic paper from Hong Kong (after ridiculing academic papers) that said exactly the opposite of what he was trying to prove: that it should cost as much to buy as it does to rent.

Does any else see the irony in that?

kyle, the fact that you don't know LIC is obvious and I'm glad you admitted it. I never said Chelsea was not desirable. But when someone from Chelsea comes on this thread, unprovoked, and knocks LIC when Chelsea has projects actually in Chelsea, then it is fair for people to respond. Why are you focused on the crummy housing on 23rd street and you ignore the projects from 16th to 20th streets and 25th to 28th streets? Why are you giving an opinion about the Queensbridge Houses when you have no clue how they affect the quality of life in the Hunters Point section of LIC? The fact is, they don't. There is no crime problem or any other projects-related issue in the area around where the new condos are and where the new park, which was the subject of this thread, is located.

I certainly didn't "knock" anything, LICC. You posted a link in the OP, and I copied what the link said.

I have been to Long Island City - it's an urban desert that's vastly overpriced.

And Long Island City borders Astoria. I don't know that there is an "official" boundary between the two of them. As I said, I spent a lot of time in both places over the years, and never did like them.

My grandmother who lived in LIC and Astoria in fact grew up in Chelsea. And my father was born in Chinatown. We go back a long way.

So if you copy your comment from someplace else, it doesn't count?

I've been to Chelsea. Others have said: "I wouldn't live in Chelsea if you paid me." I also copied this from someplace else about NYCHA projects in Chelsea:

"Chelsea Houses has two 21-story buildings with 425 apartments. Completed May 31, 1964, the 1.93-acre Manhattan development is on Ninth Avenue between West 25th and West 26th Streets.
John Lovejoy Elliott Houses consists of four buildings, 11 and 12-stories tall with 607 apartments. Completed July 15, 1947, the 4.70-acre Manhattan development is bordered by West 25th Street, Ninth and Tenth Avenues, and Chelsea Park."

I just met a couple that recently moved to LIC from Chelsea. They were telling me how happy the are with their new neighborhood.

I agree that the my-neighborhood-is-better-than-your-neighborhood stuff is silly, but when a broker (or someone who sounds a whole lot like one) kicks into sales mode (I realize they don't always know when they're doing it, it's like they've mutated), some balance is in order. As a prospective buyer, I would certainly want that when platitudes are pronounced about any neighborhood I might consider (no, I'm not considering LIC, but others reading the thread might be).

Believe me, if someone came on the board talking up the "lovely, charming stretch of East 7th at Avenue A right near a park full of models" I would feel compelled to mention the bums and junkies at the chess tables, the soup kitchen, the recent crime, etc.

"Believe me, if someone came on the board talking up the "lovely, charming stretch of East 7th at Avenue A right near a park full of models" I would feel compelled to mention the bums and junkies at the chess tables, the soup kitchen, the recent crime, etc."

I live in the EV, and there are ridiculous amounts of hot girls there, along with the bums and junkies as you stated. Not to mention easy access to other nice areas in Manhattan. Somehow I would rather live in the EV than anywhere in the s-hole known as Queens.

"So if you copy your comment from someplace else, it doesn't count?"

It's not my comment.

The area from 23rd Street to 34th Street was known as the Garment District. That's why FIT is there, and why the Penn Houses are there. Because they are called "Chelsea" doesn't mean they're any more in Chelsea than London Terrace is in London, or the Robert Fulton Houses are built on steamships.

"I just met a couple that recently moved to LIC from Chelsea. They were telling me how happy the are with their new neighborhood."

And I just met a couple who moved from Paris to Des Moines. They were telling me how happy the are with their new neighborhood.

"You have two renters from Chelsea and the UES constantly commenting about how crappy LIC is. Does anyone else see irony in that?"

Not really.... I would certainly put much more value in that if they know the neighborhood, than someone invested in it.

tenemental's post has it right. You can argue till the end, sure, but when it goes into brokerspeak, then I think all credibility is lost.

"Somehow I would rather live in the EV than anywhere in the s-hole known as Queens."

This is exactly the bs I think people are talking about. If you dislike the neighborhood so much (or the entire borough as it may be here), why are you even commenting on this thread? tenemental is right (as usual) - the neighborhood name-calling and bickering is silly, though there is a need to speak up when people are blatantly effusive and incorrect. That said, I don't see anything wrong with the OP, and stevejhx's first comment was, despite his pleas and trying to change the subject, merely out of spite. We get that you guys disagree on the rent-buy thing, and it's fine when you keep it to those threads, but it does drive others nuts when it spills over to otherwise useful threads.

Let's be honest, John Rocker was more-or-less right about Queens. It's a pretty hellish place to live.

"I live in the EV, and there are ridiculous amounts of hot girls there, along with the bums and junkies as you stated. Not to mention easy access to other nice areas in Manhattan."

Actually, if you're talking Alphabet City (which we are once we get into TSP) the transportation options are pretty weak. Long walks to either the L (groan) or the F/V (subtler groan). Not that I don't love other things about the neighborhood.

No, I live near 2nd Ave - I'm talking near Astor Place. Nice and convenient to the N,R and 4,5,6 Lines.

"Let's be honest, John Rocker was more-or-less right about Queens. It's a pretty hellish place to live."

One of the most ridiculous things I've seen written on this board. I hope you're joking, and even then, that's in poor taste.

Gotcha, BSexposer, but bjw's right. Grand negative generalizations are no better than positive ones.

"stevejhx's first comment was [...] merely out of spite."

Thanks for attributing motives to me, bjw! I didn't know you can read minds!

However, my first comment was out of humor - I thought it was funny. That's it.

There are nice parts of Queens IMHO - Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, parts of Astoria, Whitestone, for instance - just not LIC, that's all. I've been there throughout pushing 5 decades, and have yet to find anything nice about it.

Aw, chill out, peeps - just have a little fun. I'm sure some parts of Queens are nice - I've just never seen them. Except for the tennis complex when I go to the U.S. Open.

"I didn't know you can read minds!"

Yes, I'm bulemic! Seriously though, I just call it like I see it, and not hard to see this as an extension of your constant back-and-forth with the guy (which includes continually calling his neighborhood a "wasteland.")

"I live in the EV, and there are ridiculous amounts of hot girls there"

Finally I agree with BSex!

steve, no comment on your fantastic rent negotiations? I guess rents are down in every building but his!!

Chelsea
It includes part of the Garment District.Madison Square Garden and Penn Station are located in Chelsea. Sights include the Hotel Chelsea, St. Peters Espiscopal Church, Cushman Row, the Flower Market and the Fur Market.

From about.com: Chelsea Boundaries:
Chelsea stretches from 15th Street to 34th Street (give or take) between the Hudson River and Sixth Ave.

From wikipedia:
Traditionally, Chelsea was bounded on the east by Eighth Avenue, but in 1883 the apartment block, soon transformed to Hotel Chelsea helped extend it past Seventh Avenue, and now it runs as far east as Fifth Avenue below 23th street, and Broadway above 23th street to its northern boarder of 34th street.

steve, why do you insist on must making thing up so often?

JM, there are ridiculous amounts of hot girls in all of Manhattan, at least from Union Sq south (which is my zone). I can barely walk 2 blocks without bumping into a POA. I probably saw about 10 this morning on my way to work. Gotta love the summer outfits.

"(which includes continually calling his neighborhood a "wasteland.")"

I agree on that.

JuiceMan - search deeply into your memory and you will recall that my rent increase was $90 a month, which did not make either a move or further negotiation necessary - it was negligible.

This year, however, assuming that the right apartment is available at the right time, I will be moving.

LICC - first, "(give or take)."

Second: what's your point? Chelsea was named after a farm that was below 23rd Street. The area above 27th Street is often referred to as "Upper Chelsea," which it's not.

But if you like, I'll edit Wikipedia myself and make it say anything I want.

Yes it does run to 6th Avenue; across 6th Avenue is the Flatiron District. I'm actually closer to there than I am to 7th Avenue, and my building is in the Gramercy Park police precinct, not the Chelsea precinct.

Then, to quote your own source: "Long Island City Boundaries and Definition. Long Island City runs from the Queens East River waterfront all the way east to 51st/Hobart Street, and from the Brooklyn border at Newtown Creek all the way north again to the East River. Many New Yorkers know the area by two names: Long Island City or Astoria."

So you ARE in Astoria!

"Like any area in flux, housing is a mixed bag and can range widely in price within a few blocks."

Hmm. An area in flux and a mixed bag. Wow!

SIGN ME UP!

I love summer!

Those floral print mini dresses. Yowzah.

Of course, I am also very partial to the formal yet slutty atire on 6th avenue in the 50s. Got to wear the skirt suit, but of course, unbutton the blouse as low as you can!

Wikipedia has LIC's boundaries as:

Long Island City (often abbreviated L.I.C.) is the westernmost neighborhood of the borough of Queens in New York City. It is bounded on the north by the Queens neighborhood of Astoria; on the west by the East River; on the east by Hazen Street, 31st Street, and New Calvary Cemetery; and on the south by Newtown Creek, which separates Queens from Greenpoint, Brooklyn.

From about.com:

Hunters Point is the neighborhood most people mean when they say Long Island City. It is in the midst of transforming from an industrial area into a premier residential neighborhood, with the housing prices to match. Hunters Point is at the East River, just across from the UN Building, and home to the Queens West development.

I don't know what source you are looking at steve.

Are you really trying to deny that the Chelsea projects on 25th street are in Chelsea? Does it really make a difference?

How many wrong statements do I have to correct you on before you get tired of saying inaccurate things?

I wish it was summer all year around. Of course, it is some places, like the Caribbean. NYC is definitely not one of those places.

Why people insist of calling LIC a waste land is beyond me.
Just look at that new Park and all those new buildings.

There really are some ignorant people on these boards.

LICC, dude, make up your mind! Hazen Street is in the part that you were just calling Astoria.

And the beautiful Newtown Creek "is one of the most polluted industrial sites in America, containing years of discarded toxins, an estimated 30 million gallons of spilled oil, and raw sewage from New York City’s sewer system."

Yum!

Give me the Chelsea projects any day!

Wait! Speaking of projects:

"Queensbridge Houses is the largest public housing development in North America. It is located in Long Island City in Queens, and opened in 1939."