The Douglass

yes i heard they were going to start showing in October but I yet have to see anything.

Just saw this apartment this week . . they are doing extensive open houses every weekend now and some during the week. They layouts of the apartments are great and really maximize the space. The finishes are very nice, not over the top. They will have an attended lobby and a parking option. No major surprises here . . .

we saw it and liked it but FYI, the actual common charges are higher than listed ($750). There are other nice properties in the area going for less per sq ft. If you like amenities, though, this may be a good place to look.

It doesn't appear like they are making an effort to go into contract yet. The one bedroom units haven't been released (with exception to one) and by making it difficult to simply show up at an open house instead they want an appointment which tells me that they are delaying the sale of any one unit at this time. In today's market a new building needs to get to 50% in contract as quickly as possible otherwise financing and monthly maintenance become a burden to all. When they get serious and make the big push to get signatures needed to get the building occupied I'll definitely take a look at it.

Any idea why all of the units are suddenly unavailable? Are they maybe rethinking the pricing because they didn't get any offers?

There is a lot of new development in the area, I am just wondering how the prices will hold up. The overall area still has a way to go in terms or retail/bars/restaurants overall dersirability. This buidling has 8 affordable housing units out of the 38, seems high. They need to sell 51% before people that are financing can move in, they release certain units to make demand seem better. When they sell 51% they will most likely be less negotiatable with price.

They may push when they finally get the FHA approval.

We are interested in this property, but not at those prices. New developments right across the street is going for much less per sq. ft, esp. for the 3 BRs. With all of the new development in the same neighborhood, and the properties that have been sitting for over a year, we are surprised that they are not being more flexible on the prices (we bid about 10% less and were shut down).

Hold tight, mrs, prices will come down. Or, the sponsor can sit on them for the next year.

do you think 10% under asking is fair for this area? We're willing to walk away so I guess it doesn't matter much. We also asked for a 3% seller concession, so I guess it is more like 13% in all. We're not really willing to budge too much, because though the property is nice, there are still too many unknowns about the building as far as the use of the commercial space and financing, and the comps in the area are much lower for the most part.

Don't budge. There will be more developments opening in the area soon further adding to the inventory.

I'd advise you to walk within the 5-6 block radius around the Douglass to get a sense of how much new condo building is about to come online, as well as of how many finished buildings remain completely empty or clearly undersold. I live in the neighborhood, having sold my downtown apartment pre-Lehman with an eye to buying up here once the Harlem market came to its senses. The low interest rates are lulling people into a false sense security about the state of the NY real estate market, which is totally cut off from the fundamentals of the local, state, and indeed, national economies. Buy if you have to, but don't fool yourself into believing that what by any objective measure remains an irrational purchase decision is any less so because of low interests rates and 10% discounts.

One positive - across the street from Melba's, great place for Sunday brunch.

It's a growing nabe, but still three bedrooms need to be around $500 persqft to be viable. Soha118, one of the first developments to open, still has plenty of units for sale. They've been stingy with reducing asking prices and, as a result, they just sit. . .and sit. . . and sit.

Very interesting, we looked at the 2&2 den and were going to offer atleast 10% lower. The tax abatement is nice but there is a lot of inventory and what seems like a decent amount in the pipeline. Even at 10% down you are over 600/sqft.

Are they willing to throw in parking etc as a way to lower price without formally recording a lower sale price on the unit? Any insight would be appreciated.

When we made our lower offer, they said that they felt like they were going into the "strong selling" part of the season, so they were reluctant to "undervalue" their property right from the beginning. They counteroffered about 2% less, which is a joke. if we can't agree on a price, we plan to stay in our rental apartment, which is much more affordable for more space, and wait the market out to see where it goes up there. There is obviously plenty of time as all of these units hit the market within months of each other.

The area is filled with new developments that have or will put units on the market in the next months. The finishing at the Douglass are kind of cheap, at this prices they are not going to sell.
The Lore just 2 block down, has only 3 or 4 units in contracts and they have been on the market forever and ever. it`s just a matter of time...these prices will have to come down, it`s just that simple.
In between 10 blocks there are buildings that have units available or that are just brand new : the Douglass, the Lore, the Soha, the Alycia, the fitzgeral, 220 saint nicholas, the parc standard, the FD2280, the noble and the Gateway in construction, Central Park Plaza on Adam Clayton Powell...I mean there we are talking of more than a couple of hundreds of units here.

I think the advantage here is this one is really close to the Cental park and it has parking in the basement. There further North you go the londer gentrification will take, and east you have the projects starting and East Harlem is full of them. Maybe I am just trying to talk myself into overpaying for something.

It would be nice if units like this sold for about 25% less. Who would have thought 10 years ago that a 3 bedroom in Harlem would seem like a steal at $600,000?

I know! We have actually reached a stall... we have come up to app. 10% below asking, and they are not budging below a 4% discount. I guess we are going to have to walk away for now and see how they do. We are just not willing to spend that much for the location and with so many unknowns. Frustrating, but we set a limit to ourselves when we started bidding and we intend to stick with it.
Does anyone know anything about the 3BR on W. 112th that just went up? And, has anyone looked at the larger 2 BR at the Livmor?

"the Douglass, the Lore, the Soha, the Alycia, the fitzgeral, 220 saint nicholas, the parc standard, the FD2280, the noble and the Gateway in construction, Central Park Plaza on Adam Clayton Powell"

how many units do these buildings need to sell during the first couple of years to remain solvent? Soha seems almost full, but half of those units went to lottery winners paying within the $200k for 1 and 2 bedrooms. these guys pay $70 in maintenance... how can the building remain solvent when market price units (that pay all the maintenance) don't sell?

SoHa 118 sold the majority of their units pre-crash. Since the crash of 08 they've pretty much sold nothing. If the developer won't budge, walk away. There will be more to choose from in the upcoming year and, most likely, those units will still be available.

what would happen if an entire development goes bust? i would be surprised if all of them make it. doesn't renting a rent stabilized in the area makes more sense (money wise)?

'Who would have thought 10 years ago that a 3 bedroom in Harlem would seem like a steal at $600,000?"

There was little if anything REMOTELY as nice as what is available now, so its no comparison, really.

Agree with these comments, they are overpriced right now. The developer has to come down, especially when 1100 sq/ft 2&2 in the UES are now listed for 795k. Market is not coming back.

I see that some of the units are going into contract - does anyone know whaqt price they sold at?

I can't imagine anyone is paying list, not in this market. Some insight would be greatly appreciated. They have not sold any of the 3bedroom B lines, so they might be more negotiable there. Has anyone compared this building to the Livmor? Those units are much larger.

We are really debating on whether or not to go for it at 10% less for a 3BR.... the maintenance just seems so high - it's $750 or so, depending on the line, though online they say they are much lower. If the maintenance were $200 or so lower, we would prob do it.

mrs1007, You'll be underwater before the ink on the contract of sale is dry. It makes no sense at all.

mrs1007 you also need to be aware that financing in these buildings at the moment extremely difficult, how would you be going about obtaining financing?

we already have the financing, it is more about taking the risk financially. we are leaning toward continuing to rent and just investing the down payment money into an IRA at this point... it's just frustrating being this close

Agreed, I am doing the same trying not to get emotionally invovled in the decision. I am worried about being like Cherrywood says and losing 5% over the next 60 days as the units sit on the market. Because at this levels 5% adds up.
Why do you say the CC will be significantly more than what is listed?
Which line are you looking at?

Emailed them and they informed me that they had raised the maintenance by about $200 across the board from what is listed to accommodate for things we don't care about, unfortunately. We just want space. We would like to own but would not like to be poor even more, so we may walk away and wait a year and see where things are. We were just hoping to get in with the tax break and while interest rates were still pretty low.

Mrs1007, you have financing that has approved the building itself? or just your finances...?

we just did the NYTimes rent vs. buying calculator and buying wouldn't pay off for at least 10 years in our case, assuming a 1% home appreciation value every year. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/business/2007_BUYRENT_GRAPHIC.html?_r=1#

We have several banks, including the buildings preferred lender, that have pre-approved us with financing, and are basically waiting for us to make a decision one way or the other!

Mrs1007, please before you make a move on any apartment speak directly with a bank/mortgage person who is knowledgeable. Your own finances may be well in order, but if the building is not approved for financing (which i would say a good 40 to 50 percent of them in Harlem that are new developments are not) then you will have serious trouble closing unless you can pay all cash, or the building get somewhere between 50 and 70 percent sold by the time you yourself have to close. This is a by product of the crash, and why many units up there are not selling, people do not want to take the risk until a building is a certain percent sold. You risk putting your deposit money on the line. Even buildings that claim they are FHA approved, this is not a guarantee--

who is the building's preferred lender? i am just concerned that they have not disclosed all the risks-- not trying to freak you out

>>>> I think the advantage here is this one is really close to the Cental park and it has parking in the basement. There further North you go the londer gentrification will take, and east you have the projects starting and East Harlem is full of them. Maybe I am just trying to talk myself into overpaying for something.

Not true. South Harlem is actually nicer between 116th-125th than between Central Park North-116th.
The big block of projects in Harlem ends at 116h street. Not much in the way of projects between 5th-Morningside Park, 116th-125th. But anyway I would wait. HUGE condo glut in Harlem. In the longer-term this will help the neighorhood but things really need to clear out first.

No rush to buy anywhere. Things are going to go pretty far south in terms of real estate in the next year.

I heard that the area between 116th to 125th has been taken care by the city, and the area south of 116th will take care itself.

I agree south of 116th will just get nicer, but prices are still high. There are 1200sqft 2&2 posted in the east 50s for 799k. So I am not sure I see the upside in these places, unless you think they will appriciate at 3-5% a year. Which I am don't think will happen.

In YOUR view, what is the "best" building to buy into in Harlem. In terms of location first and then value?

At 650 sq ft, NONE.

2 to 3 bedrooms.

"There are 1200sqft 2&2 posted in the east 50s for 799k. So I am not sure I see the upside in these places"

The proximity to the Central Park, Morning side park, Riverside park, Columbia University, multiple subway lines, more residential, makes the south west Harlem area very appealing.

I am going to call BS. Please post a link to a CONDO in the east 50s that is simiarly brand new and is a real 2/2 with 1200 SF for $799k

I think we actually may reach a good deal on one of the units! They have moved the anticipated opening from February to late April, fyi.

mrs1007, did you have an inspection done? just wondering about the construction... I've been told to ALWAYS get an inspection, even in new developments. Any thoughts?

we will have an inspection done - will keep you posted. apparently, they are only 3 units from 51% at this point. hope the updates help, and that we aren't making a huge mistake, too!

great- good luck, and yes, please keep me (us) posted! It looks great!

Kspeak, I agree with you but the projects stop at 115th ST. Not 116th. Kalahari is on 116th on the south side, for example. Also, there are lots of smaller projects between CPN and 115th on the west part of harlem as well all the way to the west before the park.

One good thing about south harlem is again, schools. You are in district 3 and you can apply to G&T in UWS which is what a lot of families do.

I looked at this building and really liked it. But the developer is not budging on price at all. The bank that financed this project is the bank that is financing the loans so they have a vested interest in keeping their bottom line in mind. For all those thinking that they are going to go in here and get a deal that is not happening. They would rather sit on this property than take a loss on price. We will have to see what happens with this building and all of the other buildings in this particular area. There are a lot of apartments coming to market although developers are not releasing them to market yet. Sooner or later they will come to market and the market will determine "what a buyer is willing to pay".

There is also an interesting thing going on in the retail space market in this area. None of the new buildings have rented their retail spaces yet. This could be a factor for a buyer later down the road as far as your maintenance is concerned. Keep your eyes open and your ears on the chatter.

Unless you want to pay the developer's price, I would wait. The second half of 2010 will be a rough one for real estate. No need to rush unless you need the place now and/or in love with it.

We actually decided to buy because of the good deal we got - they definitely budged on price for us. And, we heard that the commercial space was being negotiated right now, and is currently NOT a food space. FYI.

"we heard that the commercial space was being negotiated right now"

i heard that about all the still-empty retail spaces when I moved to Harlem in 2007, and guess what? They are more vacancies now then there were then. Lies.

I guess we didn't care either way - if they are telling the truth, great. If not, we don't mind not having a business underneath us. We are simply moving there bc we got a large amount of space for a great price!

mrs1007 If you got a GREAT deal we will see how great it really is very soon. Conventional wisdom is telling the masses to wait. I am usually not one to follow the masses, but the economics is telling me otherwise so I am going with the economics.

I would love to see who takes that retail space this would be a good sign for the building and the buyers!

The Kalahari just took a hit by adding a "Deals" cheapie dollar type store to it's retail space. Bad for the building and the neighborhood. What is the developer thinking????

Attracting retail is, and will remain, a huge problem for the Harlem condos that have commercial space. I live in the Kalahari (in a rental), and am so glad I did not buy here inter alia because of all the empty retail space in this building and in the building next door, which makes the entire block rather ghostly at night.

The Kalahari is a nice building, but the developer should work with retail to attract commercial rentals that will enhance the neighborhood which will, in turn, enhance the value of the building. Bringing in a "Deals" dollar store is a monumental mistake.

You think they have not spent the last 2+ years trying to "work" with retailers? ALL new harlem bldgs have been! They CANNOT attract anyone (or in the case of BBbraxton or Ginger, KEEP anyone) because there are simply not enough people with sufficient disposable income to support any of these businesses, even if rent is FREE for reatilers. Near Kal you have mostly rent-controlled, low-income, or senior housing, plus projects, plus many vacant lots and finally the bldg itself is half low/moderate.

This is a chicken/egg thing, but its very tough until there are far more market-rate units in the area.

This is another reason why FDB is a better bet - more critical mass of market rate units.

Jason,

I know for a fact the developers at the Kalahari "have not."

Holmes, Why would the rental vs non-rental of the commercial space affect the monthly maintenance? Also, the Livmor has a church in it's ground floor space - anyone have any thoughts about that? It has retail space, too, and that has not been leased yet.

austinkm This is the question that I have been waiting for. If the commercial space is rented it give the developer some more cash to satisfy its debts. That would make life for everyone easier your common charges would not have to go through the roof to take up the slack for the loss of revenue. The same is true at the Livmor and any other project out their with empty retail space. Manhattan has a surplus of retail space available at the most affordable prices in years this has to be a problem for the whole of Manhattan not just Harlem.

I heard the Livmor does have a church in it. This must have been due to the church owning the land and the developer buying the air rights and agreeing to build a new church. I also heard that the church entrance is kind of hidden and if you did not know it was their you just would not know a church was adjacent to the building. That should also matter because the church also has to get a cut of some of the revenue from the building itself.

Do your research before buying and when you are finished do some more research. Their are a lot of traps out there right now "do not get caught sleeping"

How exactly does one "work with" retailers, bronxboy? you either lower rent or it goes vacant. if more upscale developers were interested, they would have paid higher rent.

That area simply cannot support any sort of high-end retailer, mid-level retailer, or bank, or hell even a black-owned barber shop. Its a ghost town as far as market-rate renters and owners go. FDB below 125th, not so much, ditto for a few blocks up at Mt Morris or at 145th. But right around Kalahari? Who is going to be able to keep a starbucks or even a GAP open? Nobody can afford such in that partcular area, its all very low income housing.

Jason,

I know they've turned away more desirable retailers for their own reasons of which I cannot explain. You are absolutely generalizing, Jason. How do you know for sure if, for example, a Starbucks cannot succeed in that area? The Kalahari is now pretty much fully occupied. 1400 Fifth is fully occupied. There are new rentals on Fifth. Soon, or maybe not soon, people will be living at 5th in the Park and Graceline Court. So maybe you do lower the rent or give a few months free to attract some quality. Better than staying vacant for years. Your attitude is so pessimistic that we all might as well give up on not only Harlem, but the rest of NYC. Thankfully, there are those out there who will take risks. Without them there would be no NYC.

BTW Settapani, closed now for renovation, exists in that "ghost town" you refer to. As do many other businesses. It's not easy, but someone with some vision can get it done.

I did not say "Harlem". In fact I said "DB below 125th, not so much, ditto for a few blocks up at Mt Morris or at 145th. But right around Kalahari? "

Meaning there are good locations in Harlem, but 116th/5th is just not one of them. Any retailer that had taken a chance would have been KILLED waiting for Graceline and 5thonthePark to ever EVER be occupied, (they are still not...)and the two other places you cite are 50% low/moderate income...which further proves my point. No one who has money to spend lives within walking distance of that somewhat isolated retail corner. Not enough people, anyway. You forget I lived there for two years until recently!

ANy retailer with half a brain wanting to move into Harlem would choose either the new mall on 116th/east river, FDB btw 110th/125th, or the 145th street area.

And your tale of the Kalahari turning away wonderful, full-paying merchants in favor of Ginger, BBBraxton, and a discount furniture store seem entirely suspicious and frankly made-up.

So far as we know the Douglass is in negotiation with a retailer. We will be speaking to the developer this week and will get a name. But, does anyone know how often and by how much the maintenance can be raised? That is certainly a factor in our agreed price being a good vs. great deal.

Jason, you are way off. Prefer 145th over 116th & Lenox? Are you kidding me? FDR has a lot of new condos coming in but they are small in scale and they're not all sold yet. By comparison, a lot of new condo's and coops around 116th & Lenox are much bigger in scale and they're occupied. Plus, there are many converted brownstones on either side of Lenox as well. The retailers in The Renaissance are doing well. But another factor is that 116th & Lenox has 2/3 express trains right on the corner and it's just too convenient to take a 2 stop ride to UWS.

Lenox ave has 2 cafes that are nice, both Italian. Some restaurants. 119th ST condo has shops.

I think Kalahari's mistake was that their retail space should have been broken up, so that smaller and more diverse businesses could have come in.

I agree Youngfamily. Jason is making a blanket statement. A smart retailer could do very very well between Lenox and Fifth. Its a burgeoning market, really. That's why the developer would have been smart to work with someone with vision. Not a "Deals$" store which is more of the same in Harlem. Or a furniture store that no one has any interest in. An overpriced Chinese restaurant was a mistake as was an overpriced hair salon for men (Braxtons) two things definitely not needed in Harlem (two of the former tenants of 1400 Fifth). The potential is amazing for that block,despite Jason's pessimism.

mrs1007, we also just had our offer accepted at the Douglass. we think we got a great deal and the developer was certainly willing to come down a bit in price as well as pay the transfer taxes. we'd love to hear who the retailer is that they are in negotiation with - let us know if you hear anything.

Missclaire,
Congratulations. What was your cost 'per square foot'?

UWS27 MissClaire sounds like a broker. She will not post the p/p/ft

missclaire congrats! what was the expected move in date they gave you? they told us mid to late April.

Oh, I would just like to add that I am not a broker but am not sharing p/p/ft because it is not in our best interest to do so as buyers, esp. without the contract signed yet!

mrs1007 That is a good answer and you are right it is not in your best interest. Good luck with the purchase.

Thanks, Holmes. We are already nervous about getting a low interest rate locked in and the maintenance changing, and are just waiting for the building to get done and open, already! The thread has been very interesting to follow (and informative) as we progress in our own transaction.

Holmes, I am definitely not a broker!! I'm not sure whether to be flattered or offended by that. But it did make me laugh. :) mrs1007, they also told us April for move-in (they originally told us January, but clearly that didn't happen), so we are guessing it will be more like June or July. i don't know if sharing what we paid will help us (it could bring in more buyers so we could move in faster) or hurt us so i guess I'll just keep it to myself. I will say that we purchased one of the 3BR c-line apartments.

Ditto to all of the above, miss claire, down to the same line of apartment! We are really hoping to sign a contract and lock in a rate soon - we'd also like to be able to get the $8K tax credit if at all possible...

"The potential is amazing for that block,despite Jason's pessimism. "

Where is the money for all this? NO ONE AROUND THERE MAKES ENOUGH. On FDB they do, NOW. In morningside they do NOW. You are saying someday in the future perhaps there will be more non-[low income housing/projects] people beyond the 50% who live at 1400 and Kalahari. Why on Earth would a retailer go in UNTIL then? Please be specific. What other buildings are CURRENTLY occupied in a short walk from this area that could or would support such places? Everything else is low/moderate income, rent controlled, or projects. The fairway's clientele was hardly indicative of any sort of high-end business. And Ginger was not EXPENSIVE by any means, in light of what you are suggesting. Neither was BBbraxton - in that it was the ONLY nice make hair place in Harlem that takes (and honors!) appointments.

What foot traffic goes between 5th and 6th on 116th or 115th? From where to where? Why would ANY retailer think this was a better location then the endless empty storefronts on 125th or 8th ave?

Anyone who has been on these boards knows I am a harlem cheerleader, but I have to call a spade a spade. There is simply not enough income or foot traffic to support any sort of "nice" retailer on this particular block. All you have provided are platitudes to prove otherwise.

Jason, I agree that Lenox is better for retail than 116th ST. But, there are BIGGER coops and condos in the area!!! Not just Kalahari, 1400 on the 5th, The Renaissance, but the new ones on 116th ST between Lenox and ACP, and the new ones on Lenox such as all the coops on 117th ST on Lenox and on 117th St, the huge "million dollar condo" on 119th ST, all those renovated brownstones on the numbered streets, and there are smaller condos on the numbered streets between Lenox and ACP. Not to mention the new condos and coops on 5th Avenue and Madison.

I know people like to talk about FDR but a lot of FDR condos are new and smaller in scale. For a while, Lenox was more developed and new development happened on Lenox and around Lenox. I know below 115th ST does not have $ (even though there are smaller condos below 115th on Lenox as well).

Ginger was a mistake but it has more to do with bad food, imho. It was BAD food and overpriced. Had something like Ollies come in, it might have survived.

I do hope the retail shops on FD will succeed, I do. But I know they're struggling, too. A lot of competition for a small market on FD with all those small condos. FD doesn't generate much foot traffic, either. It's a much smaller avenue, and it also has a lot of projects on the numbered streets off of FD and rent controlled places, too.

I will also add that the families living in the coops I mentioned around that area have HHI of $123k or $193k. I know that may not be much but it's still way above median HHI of New Yorkers.

Young family, exactly. Ginger was a mistake on many levels. And it wasn't very good. Someone with vision will pave the way on 116th Street. It's just a matter of time, despite Jason's insistence to the contrary. Give them what they need and they will come. The potential is incredible for that area.

More than 51% of the apartments in the Lore has entered the contract.

I am not sure that we care that Lore is at 51%. If you know anything about the location of this building you will know why this is being said. A great block and next to a school and the view of the complex in front of the building is great NOT.

I like FDB much better than Lenox Ave, anytime there large public housing complexes in an area it deters foot traffic. People try to stay away b/c there is always nonsense going on. FDB will soon be littered with 1 & 2 bedroom apt, I would assume people living there will have enough disposable income to attract retailers. Maybe I am just biased b/c I am negotiating for a unit right now in this building.

Does anyone know what they are doing with the row of boarded up brownstones on the southside of 114th?

ms123 Right now nothing is being done but FDB quite a few people would like to buy in but from what I am hearing the developers are not budging on their prices. You may want to sit on the sideline for a little while longer. But if you get a good deal and get them to move on the price do tell.

Well some people are saying it is negotiable and you are saying no.

ms123 I am not saying they are not negotiable it is just how much you want to negotiate in a market that has not yet stabilized. They will be more willing to negotiate if the units in the building do not sell as fast as anticipated. This will be the case in the coming months only time will tell, I can not say for sure. This is a descent building in a fast growing area.

As someone who has an accepted bid on a property, we can vouch that they ARE being very negotiable, and we feel like we got a good deal. However, that being said, we have not signed our contract bc after looking at comparable rentals in the same neighborhood, within a couple of blocks of this building, we may decide to rent after all. The difference in monthly payment is literally thousands per month. We would prob do better to rent and invest the rest!

mrs1007 I am not investing anywhere right now. But I looked at the same scenario and have come to the same conclusion. If the market stays flat prices will have to come down that is my personal thoughts. Why buy when you can rent and not tie up your cash for 30yrs. If you need the tax credit to stay afloat you should not be buying. It is all in the math.

mrs1007 I am not investing anywhere right now. But I looked at the same scenario and have come to the same conclusion. If the market stays flat prices will have to come down that is my personal thoughts. Why buy when you can rent and not tie up your cash for 30yrs. If you need the tax credit to stay afloat you should not be buying. It is all in the math.

NYC is also lagging the rest of the nation. I say we still have another leg down, this is a wait and see thing, remember after you sign on the dotted line you are the one responsible for those payments. The bank will not want to hear that you made a mistake.

Over the past 12 months, prices have stabilized. There are areas where prices have started to go up.
The NYC housing market has clearly turned around. Stop sucking on that finger and go out there and see for yourself.

carol wrote: There are areas where prices have started to go up.

what are you referring to?

This is a good article: http://nymag.com/realestate/features/63383/

I am scared we have not hit bottom either, but you have to look at this on a tax adjusted basis also. You do get to write-off your mortgage tax, well until the current administration takes it away.

The tax abatement makes these places much more attractive. This will help you have a positive Cashflow if you want to rent in the future.

Long Island city is still overpriced, but developers are very flexible. We looked there also, but I think we prefer Harlem and being on the island.

"Over the past 12 months, prices have stabilized. There are areas where prices have started to go up.
The NYC housing market has clearly turned around. Stop sucking on that finger and go out there and see for yourself. "

Uh, people, this is the CarolSt who, besides flipping out multiple times on this board (look it up, its HILLARIOUS) is also a broker who said there wasn't a decline in the first place.

Had you listened to this genius before, you'd have been screwed.

Do it not at your own peril.

But, seriously, look it up... HILLARIOUS.