young single woman professional

Try Morningside Heights.

Start commuting 'home' to Harlem after work, stay for dinner, see a film and talk to the women you meet; they'll know the answer to your query. Good luck & let us know what you find.

I volunteer 2 days a week in Harlem (132nd St. a few blocks from C/B station at 135th). Been doing this for 2 years. This area has one of the lowest crime rates in the city. I park my 2006 model car there and leave it without worries during the day and into the evening if it's convenient for my schedule. I have no problems parking it around there overnight.

You can get the crime stats from the NYTimes' real estate section ads, in the neighborhood profiles.

Fact is, crime happens everywhere. #3 gives very good advice.

I appreciate the comments of 2 and 3 and will follow the advice.
#3 -Do you take the subway at nite -- walking to and from subway?

No, luv, I'm nowhere near Harlem 'though I love the idea of it. Good luck!

Moving to Harlem?? You need to consider resale values...what happens if and when the market drops? Areas like Harlem will go down faster and fall further. Before you buy take the subway at 8:00 - 9:00 pm and see how you feel. Whether crime is low or high it's your antenna that's important. good luck

All of this has been good advice (fortunately the "below 96th St." troll hasn't chimed in yet). I've lived in Harlem (just east of Morningside Park, in an area that's becoming an extension of the Upper West Side, but more neighborly) for six years, and although I'm a guy and can't give you directly relevant advice, I've seen many respectable and sane-looking middle class women (of all races) taking the subway back home in the wee hours of the morning.

Harlem encompasses a big area, so just where you are makes a difference in comfort level, how depressing the small but noticeable contingent of down-and-out looking people seem, and most notably the retail/restaurant/services thing. Some people like feeling like they're basically in a bedroom community, and like commuting to noisier neighborhoods for wining, dining, etc., though.

As for market drop, NY Magazine made the point a couple of years ago that when that happens, Harlem's great transportation and solid, beautiful housing stock will keep it relatively well-protected. I'd worry more about neighborhoods where lots of foreigners, pied-a-terrists, and over-leveraged low-level Streeters are buying. They lack the deep roots and/or means to ride it out.

If you're not shy, you might want to stand in front of one of the new-construction rentals or condos near where you're considering and buttonhole middle-class looking people coming home in the evening. They'll almost all be new to the neighborhood, and will share their joys or regrets with you. Three rentals: 444 Manhattan Ave. at W. 118th St., plus the two at W. 117th and 8th Ave (Frederick Douglass Blvd.). Note that the intersection near the subway there is scuzzy looking -- there's a soup kitchen nearby -- but safe.

I'm curious to know what specific area and/or development you're considering.

Ok, I am absolutely curious if anyone that replied positively about living in Harlem is a single professional woman?

If you like being cat-called, stared at, followed, yelled at, don't live in Harlem. That's what will happen to you if you live in Harlem. I mean, this kind of stuff happens anywhere you go, but to a higher degree in Spanish Harlem.

If I were a young single women (which I'm not) I would definitely consider the upper east side between York and Second avenue. Anywhere between 70th and 86th street. Compared to downtown it's relatively cheap and as far as safety is concerned I personally feel very very safe walking late at night.

#9, you're talking about Spanish Harlem & apparently it's still kinda sketchy. When I think of Harlem I tend to think of Columbia/Morningside Heights area which would be the area I would look into if I were to make the move north (Upstate Manhattan, somebody called it). There's an interesting post on the Hells Kitchen thread here about how just a few blocks can make such a big difference. Of course Harlem is a big area so it really depends on the buyer's comfort zone & "antenna", as somebody mentioned, & then also how much of a commute one is comfortable with & whether one will be downtown/midtown-centric, in which case Northern Manhattan is just a bad idea. I still say, hit the streets & hang out & you'll know soon enough if the area is for you. Good luck & send us a postcard!

I agree with #10 the 70's and 80's on the east side are much safer and you will not lose value on your apartment...Harlem is a frontier area and who knows where it's going (price wise).

I read a murder story in the papers a few months back when a 22 year old man went to Harlem to visit a friend in his new apart. Leaving the subway he didn't pay attention and was mugged by a group of "teenagers" and pushed in front of a car and died. I remember most was a statement by a cop who said "people act like Harlem is "MIDTOWN" and it's not". Something to think about.

#13--He was not pushed. He was chased by those kids, ran into traffic and was hit by a car. As I recall, he was an NYU student and the area was around 110th (?). And they were teenagers. The oldest one was 17.

He was not pushed but chased...what is your point..pused or chased he would not have been struck by the car and killed if it weren't for the "teenagers". Also, you stated the oldest one was 17...I suppose that will make the victim feel better.

Where does Harlem begin and end?

I am also a single female professional and looking in Harlem. I think you get more for your money and the commute is great -- tons of express trains. One's comfort zone is a subjective issue. I'm looking in Central Harlem and feel quite comfortable with living there. I'm now on the UWS above 96th and love the diversity of my neighborhood. As for the young student who was chased and hit by a car, it really is very unfortunate. But, as we all know, that can happen anywhere in the city. Good luck on your search.

Many people will tell you that Harlem begins above 96th Sreet. I'm more symmetrical & say above Central Park. Where is Bill Clinton's famous Harlem office located?

I lived just east of morningside park for 6 months. had a couple of intimidating remarks but harmless. i know someone who was mugged in the middle of the day on one of the side streets and 2 months ago 2 columbia students were beat up (just north and south of the park in 2 separate incidents) they were both beat up, not mugged. there's some contention about the gentrification and it's certainly vocal in the community. seems to be more activity in crime- i wasn't comfortable and moved, but know many females that feel safe and are just very aware about uncompromising situations.

I am a female professional and I work in midtown and libe in Morningside Heights. I love it! There are 2 makor subway stops - 110th and 116th and it's about 20 minutes to the office. It's NYC and you need to be 'aware' of what's going on around you; no different up here.

Look for something between 100th and 1116th, CPW west to Riverside Drive.

As a petite young women, I think lower Harlem (morningside heights, which really is an extension of the UWS now as long as you say west of the 116th St B/C stop; anywhere west of Broadway up to about 126th st) is very safe. I feel uncomfortable walking by myself in East Harlem at night because of the elevated Metro North tracks - they create tunnels that seem like prime mugging spots. I also do not like central harlem near marcus garvey park because of the cat calling, and just an overall sense of some unsavory characters hanging out. (And one of my friends was jumped on a crowded street by a bunch of teenagers in that neighborhood at 9:30 p.m., very similiarly to the other guy who died...nobody did anything to intervene) I definitely agree with everyone who says each block is different. And with neighborhoods gentrifying and changing so quickly, my description is probably outdated as I type. (I used to live in upstate manhattan in washington heights, and at that point would hang more in harlem for the restaurants, shopping, etc - but every since moving to hell's kitchen, I don't go uptown as often.)

#13, #14, #15, his name was Broderick Hehman and you can read all about him here:
http://wirednewyork.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=42

Idiots! You're sticking to one unfortunate situation that occurred about a year or two ago as if things like that NEVER happen in other areas of Manhattan....so full of yourselves.

I think that the cat calling will only diminish as time goes by....gentrification is happening...this is obviously a fact...otherwise no one would be talking about Harlem.

I think it would be cool to live bny 125th street and all of the shops! Enjoy Harlem and Good Luck!

As a professional couple looking to buy in East Harlem, we've explored the neighborhood several times (different days/nights) and spoke to local business owners. The feeling of insecurity that you might get is largely due to perception. NYPD Compstat statistics show that Harlem and East Harlem crime has been steadily falling in the last 20 years. There are bad streets, of course, and it's not as pretty or manicured as Gramercy. Do some on-the-ground research and compare real estate prices with other parts of Manhattan (not just what's available, but the upward trend of prices over the past 5 years as a leading indicator of its desirability).

Spanish Harlem sucks! It's just not there yet....Central Harlem is a better bet.

Spanish Harlem, Central Harlem...it's all the same. These are neighborhoods outside of the comfort zone for many New Yorkers but if people feel good about living there go for it and enjoy..that's what it's all about!!

i'm a "young single woman professional" and i live in central harlem. i love it. i've lived on the upper west and chelsea, and harlem is by far my favorite neighborhood. i feel very safe...

Oh pleeeze...if #29 has lived in chelsea and the upper west side why did you move to Harlem..

I think it is a very foolish idea to live in Harlem or any other questionable neighborhood. I know a lot of people like the Bohemian lifestyle, but you are putting yourself or your love one at risk. Harlem is full of projects, so gentrification will never happen. There are roaming pack of kids and bad things usually happen when they have a group think mentality. I had a coworker that move to Bushwisk, and was attacked the first weekend there. 12-13 year kids tried to mug her. When you refused to hand over her money, they threaten to rape her. Is it really worth it?????????????????????

#31, how can you analogize an isolated incident that happened in Bushwick with Harlem generally? That's like saying, a coworker once got mugged in Chelsea, so the Upper West Side is unsafe.

#31 here. I was very close to buying a townhouse in Harlem 10 years. I would have made a lot of money, but glad that I did not buy. I went up there at night, and I was scared to death. People were looking at us as bait. Harlem has gotten better, but my personal fear has always been living nearby to projects. There is no gentrification when projects are nearby. I grew up in a rough neighbor in the city. I made some money and move away from the danger of mugging, rape, and murder. I can't believe people want to risk their life for the Bohemian life style. If you are looking for cheap, move to further away from Manhattan. Don't risk you life.

Bottom line - 10 yrs ago, someone went to Harlem and got spooked because someone else looked at them funny!

#31 What a little bitch you are! Were you raped perhaps? All you're talk of gentrification and you're grammar is horrid...you're the one in need of upgrading. Your sole issue seems to revolve around saftey...wake up this is New York and anything can happen anywhere at anytime....although 10 years ago bad things were more likely to occur. Bottom line is that Harlem is going through a drastic transformation...nothing can stand in the way of progress. Oh by the way did you hear that Trump may be developing the corner of 110 St and Fredrick Douglas which is currently a gas station! Wow!

Is everyone forgetting last year when a 22 man exited the train station in Harlem to visit his friend who recently moved to Harlem and was "attacked" by a mob of kids who then pushed him in front of a car. The guy was killed and what I remember most is the cop saying "people move up here thinking it's Midtown and it is NOT".

Anyone buying in Harlem is NUTS...Harlem has numerous projects and they are just hotbeds of crime...no matter how much we try to change things they are not going to change...face realty. IT'S DANGEROUS IN HARLEM..

#35 must have bought in Harlem because he/she is the only one not facing cold hard facts...it has always been dangerous and will continue to be dangerous.

As I recall he was not pushed but was chased...that was a terrible incident. And I guess you haven't heard of any crime in your area of manhattan...I guess that's why there aren't any cops where you reside. I guess you haven't heard of suited-up white bandits robbing jewelry stores nor taxi cab drivers getting robbed. What say you about incidents such as the Enron debacle...midtown, that's where most of the major crooks really are...everybody knows that.

"cold hard facts" include the crime statistics that show Harlem to have less crime than the Upper East Side (probably because the district includes Yorkville, not just the actual Upper East Side) and less than half the rate of crime than the Far West Village. See Community Data at http://www.nytimes.com/pages/realestate/communities/index.html for cold hard facts. And these stats are not based on white-collar crimes, either. Just the typical murder/rape/robbery/burglary kind of stuff.

Ignorance might be cold and hard, but it has nothing to do with facts.

#30, not sure what your point is, but I moved to Harlem because I wanted more space for my money and I liked the sense of community. I feel very, very safe in Harlem and am very happy there. So strange to me how people have such visceral responses to Harlem. There are incidents of crime all through New York City, but for some reason Harlem conjures up the most dramatic responses. Check out the crime statistics for Central Harlem -- they are lower than many other areas. I think you'd be surprised.

How does the NYPD distribute its man power...Are there higher concentrations of cops in midtown or in a place like the Bronx?

Regarding the crime statistics on NYT:

"Crime Index
• The crime index is a score created by OnBoard that represents the combined risks of rape, murder, assault, robbery, burgulary, larceny and vehicle theft compared to a national average of 100. For instance, a score of 200 indicates twice the national average.
"

See Community Data at http://www.nytimes.com/pages/realestate/communities/index.html

Crime Index: Harlem-84; Lower East Side-130; Chelsea-142. Interesting???

Crime Index: Upper East Side-100. HA! HA! HA!

Since the higher the index the more likely you are of falling victim to crime, it seems that Harlem might be a safer place to live after all!

There is crime in all locations but to say harlem is safe is NUTS. Besides crime..when property values go down guess where they will go down first...HARLEM, BED STUY,etc.

#47. You live on the Upper East Side, right?

My guess is that #47 is from Bensonhurst and now lives in Yorkville.

Definitely lives in Yorkville. I have a very lonely image of #47. I bet he eats take-out from the same Chinese chain every night, then looks for love in the frat-bars in his neighborhood. Maybe he lives in the Dormandie Court?

Well the cold hard facts have it! Harlem is in fact safer!!! Anyone up for a BBQ on the corner of 125th street and 8th Ave?

Sure I'll meet you there at about 11 pm. Remember to carry lots of money, wear jewelry and be a nice pretty white girl.

#41 I'm with you! I've been looking to buy in Harlem and put a bid in, but another offer was accepted before my bid went in. In meantime, I'm going to rent in Harlem and keep looking to buy. I like the neighborhood and everyone I've spoken to has been very friendly in open -- very unlike other areas of the city. I've lived on the UWS -- well 97th street (some may already call that Harlem LOL) -- for several years and I'm looking forward to Harlem. And, Harlem has great parks, express trains, great shopping, dining -- what more could you want? Unfortunately, the real estate prices are going up quickly too as many people are looking at Harlem. Hopefully, I'll find something soon :)

P.S. I'm also a (fairly) young single female professional

Bensenhurst...please...I live downtown and would love to buy a larger apartment (larger than studio) but going to Harlem will never, ever happen mainly because I would rather be a liberal downtown than a crime statistic in Harlem...

#53 is dreaming...Harlem real estate is not booming it standing still and sliding down.

Who would want to take the subway up to Harlem at 8- 9-10:00 at night.

#56 Haven't you been reading the posts...The stats indicate that Harlem is SAFER!!! Don't be a Hater!

The stats don't show the number of crimes that are unreported..this has nothing to do with hate but with reality...if people want to live in Harlem I wish them the best of luck but it just does not make sense.

Now you've resorted to speculation... "the stats don't show the number of crimes that are unreported"...pitiful. Besides genius that statement would apply to all locations. I just new that once the stats backed-up Harlem that some idiots would try to disregard and/or discredit them....meanwhile those who are pro Hralem weren't the ones who brought the "stats" into the picture....stats which are purported to be the "cold hard facts". I don't blame you for trying to promote your area but don't try to demean other locations either.

I agree with 59..it would be great if all areas continue to do well!!

Simply put Harlem is apparently moving along at a brisk pace like it or not. For example, George Hirsch, founding publisher of New York magazine and The Runner as well as co-founder of the New York Marathon just bought a place for 2.7 mil at 111 Central Park North on Lenox and 110St ( http://www.nyobserver.com/2007/new-york-marathon-co-founder-scores-2-7-m-deal-um-central-park-north ). So for those looking to make some cash and enjoy a more neighborly type of environment, now's the time to buy before things get completely out of control....you'll be laughing all the way to the bank in a few years.

One of the best things about living in Harlem is that it seems to attract interesting, free-thinking people. I read the negative, marginally (and occasionally overtly) racist comments on these boards and am happy that I chose a neighborhood that closed-minded people avoid. Do us a favor, #58 and co, and stay far away from Harlem. Thanks.

It is always scary to post to threads like this as it is all too easy to be branded a racist. (and yes, some are I know). I think that for a young woman who FEELS safe in Harlem, many parts are just fine. (Harlem has many different areas). However, though I don't necessarily think I would be in more danger of being killed or raped or whatever, I have to say I would not feel comfortable calling it my home. It is not far to be pegged a racist for saying this. On the occassions in which I have recently been in Harlem (a funeral, an engagement party, and once having gotten absurdly lost despite the fact that I have lived all my life here...)I have felt uncomfortable. Certain comments toward me and then just other's conduct while walking down the street while not necessarily dangerous felt uncomfortable. BTW I am not a previous poster, but I think it is ok to NOT feel like living in a certain area without being branded a hater of the demographic that does tend to live in that area.

To #63, some are...and some aren't, of course. I do think that some people who refuse to acknowledge statistics and reality may be inspired by a motive beyond goodwill and helpful advice. To me, the fact that some people have violent, closed-minded opinions about Harlem, even in the face of facts that dispute their positions, is questionable.

#64--yes, agree with what you say. Just don't think a serious word like racist should be flung about so easily is all I mean.

I don't want to live on upper east side but i do not hate old people

#65, I agree. If you don't want to live in harlem for whatever personal reasons you have, that's fine and of course does not on the facts make you a racist. i just think that some of the comments on these boards against harlem ARE motivated by racism, and i'm glad that those people are staying away from the neighborhood that i love. simple as that.

Got it :-).

I cringe when the word racist is brandished. Most people are prejudiced not racist - which I choose to mean having set assumptions (like what living in a mostly black neighbourhood will be like) and finding it very difficult to challenge them - the risks they see are real to them and sometimes become self perpetuating.

I am a white male Brit (married - to another white Brit - with a 2yo daughter) who has lived in Harlem for 3 years (119th and Lenox). Lived in Tribeca the first 2 years after I moved here. Tons of racially mixed neighbourhoods like this in London (used to live in Ladbroke Grove - Carnival central) so moving to Harlem did not bother me a bit. You learn, as with any large city (I've also lived in Rio) where to avoid, and how to carry yourself. Same applied when I lived in Tribeca - which BTW was where a homeless guy threatened to prick me with with an "infected" needle when I didn't give him money.

#69, but if the set assumption is "traditionally black neighborhood = more crime," even in the face of statistics that show the crime levels in harlem are LOWER than many other neighborhoods i think the line between "prejudiced" and "racist" blur a bit. i think people should be pushed to explore what motivates their visceral responses.

#69 here: All I'm saying is that there are very few people who consistently challenge their assumptions - thats why bubbles form. Its lazy thinking that we all subscribe to at some level. Given the hurt that racial prejudice causes it would be good if people exercised their minds more often than they do, however I suspect that would be wishful thinking. Before we moved, a friend tried to dissuade us with the "compelling" argument that a mutual friend of ours - who is black - would not move to Harlem. Ignoring the fact that this friend grew up and - until 4 years ago - lived in Boston, has lived a very sheltered life, has been in new york 2 minutes (like me) and is actually a very suburban guy but the lazy assumption was that his blackness somehow qualified him to comment on the merits/demerits of living in Harlem.

What is a racist. I am politically liberal but can never, ever live in Harlem basically I like to take long walks in my neighborhood (UES) at 10:00, 11:00 in the evening. Could that ever happen in Harlem, I doubt it. Does that make me a racist??

REGARDING CRIME STATS; it has been shown for years that poor, black neighborhoods do not report crime.

i agree, #69. you would not believe some of the arguments that i've heard against moving to harlem. it has been shocking and eye-opening.

on a side note, and interestingly, my building is filled with europeans. i can say definitively that people who are scared of europeans should avoid harlem : )

#73: Then there would be no trend to observe. Crime Stats show a GREATER decline in reported crime in Harlem as compared to other areas in the city AND one of the lowest reported absolute levels in the city. Of course, poor black people may just have given up on the police. #72: Does that mean I will start taking long walks in the neighbourhood at 11pm? No, as I won't in most parts of the city invariably your hike will take you past or close to somewhere dodgy (if by a long walk you mean consistently walking aimlessly for up to an hour and more).

#72, I don't know if that makes you a racist, but it makes you a victim of your own incorrect doubts.

YES, you can safely go for a walk around most of the Harlem areas being discussed here, at 10, 11, or 12 in the evening. In my corner of Harlem, you might find some old black retirees sitting on the sidewalk on either side of a card table, playing (no kidding) a game of chess. Would that ruin your walk?

#76 it was Harlem where a young guy was visiting a friend in Harlem when he was mugged by a bunch of "kids" and was pushed in the front of a car and died. The cop said "people think this is Midtown and it's not, it's dangerous"

I'm #76, and I forgot to add that I'm a muggable white middle-aged guy who's lived in Harlem for over six years. I've never heard of any crime occurring in within a few blocks of my apartment in that time.

I don't know why people focus on that incident -- especially because he wasn't pushed, he ran into traffic in a panic while being chased. Hate to blame the victim, but with some basic street smarts, he wouldn't have gotten to that point anyway. Every Manhattan neighborhood has its occasional incident. For borough stories (Staten Island and the like), you'll always hear the neighbors saying "I just don't understand it, this is such a quiet neighborhood, nothing like that ever happens here." Uh huh

I also don't know if that cop really said that, but there's been a long-term problem in NY whereby the cops are suburbanites who have a deep-seated fear and loathing of almost the whole city. But check out the crime stats for Midtown North and Midtown South precincts. I bet they're much higher than Harlem.

Well said #78 - crime is everywhere. This one incident has been mentioned elsewhere in this board and I think it's one of those short-hand (and short-sighted) topics that Harlem Haters bring up to stereotype the neighborhood. Another example is the sexual harrassment incident after one Puerto Rican Day parade several years ago - another hoary chestnut that anti-Hispanics love to bring up.

We're PRICE OUT of Harlem! even with the Crime...
they overpriced the condos! that's what happens when corcoran moves into a perfectly good neighborhood, jacks the prices through the roof, and says "thank you for making us rich!"
it's not worth the prices anymore --unless they keep dropping.
the prices are slipping, because they got too greedy -- look at the condos such as brownstone lane and you'll see the price drops (and that's below 125th street, wow)
i'm movin on from harlem and never thought i would say that...

I was thinking about buying in Harlem at 2002 5th. It seemed really fancy with gorgeous finishes. Then I went up there one day to drive around the neighborhood. The neighborhood was so shady that I didn't even feel safe driving in my car. Then that weekend I heard a ton of people got shot in separate shootings across the street from that building. Go visit where you are thinking of buying. If you don't feel safe, the nabe is not for you and don't buy there. Trust your instincts.

#78,79...you are both trying to make a dried up old apple shine. Harlem is Harlem nothing is going to change the projects, out of wedlock children roaming the streets day and night and the UNREPORTED crime. I wish it were different.

"a ton of people got shot"
"out of wedlock children roaming the streets"

ridiculous. you should take a long look inside and figure out why you have so much bias. i hope you don't teach this garbage to your children.

i am a young woman and i am completely comfortable walking around my central harlem neighborhood at night. in harlem i know my neighbors, they say hello as i pass, and i feel very safe.

#82, Chelsea has zillions of low-income projects and went from seedy to smokin'. Same with the East Village and the Lower East Side. Same with the UWS above 86th St.

And start paying child-support and maybe your children will stop roaming the streets day and night!

Chelsea has low income projects but not the same people. Sorry, this is not racist this is true.

Would like to know if the OP would be interested in dating me, a young single professional male.

Chelsea has a C while Harlem only has an M ti itself. Sorry, this is not racist but true.

Just who do you think live in Chelsea's low-income projects? Thurston and Lovey Howell? The Bill Gateses?

fyi:
SOHA 118 condo has only sold 15 out of 90 something units.....
and that's below 125th street in harlem...
only a matter of time before they realize they are too HIGGGGHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhh

didn't STEVIE WONDER write that ole' song about these Harlem Condo Developments?
"TOO HIGH"

#87. yes.

My concern about Harlem, and some areas in Brooklyn, is that many cities seem to be experiencing a rise in crime rates. I remember NY in the 1970s: Fort Greene, for example, was really scary. If crime were to rise again in NYC, due to demographics, economy or whatever, I would be fearful to would rise fastest in the neighborhoods with the least robust population (at least in the sense of being most hurt by moderate declines in, say, employment).

I certainly agree that crime can happen anywhere, and does. But, in terms of probability of being mugged, there was a huge difference in 1975 between the East Village and the West Village.

Harlem – no matter how cool and exciting it appears today – would not be on my list for a home for a single woman. I would feel safer in Greenpoint, Williamsburg, or even Red Hook.

Just my 2-cents…
Good luck what ever you decide.

#93, I agree. I think the economy is on the decline with property values heading south and thus it will become less safer in the developing neighborhoods. #89 do you know where Thurston Howell the Third lives? I would pay top dollar to live next to him and Lovey:)

i don't know if property will go down all over Manhattan significantly, but certain neighborhoods will have greater corrections than other, without a doubt. I think Harlem will be hit pretty hard - I'd stay out of there for now.

One exception - if you are getting a really great deal, so that even with, say, a 25% 'correction', you can still sell the unit at about your cost – then your downside is more limited.

If I could find a livable space for $500/sq ft (dreaming here) that was very close to the subway and the immediate neighborhood did not seem too scary at night I would join you up there. In that case there is a significant upside; you may be rewarded nicely for taking risk.

But if you are paying nearly $1000/sq ft, I would live with less in a neighborhood that is less likely to backslide. In that case the current seller is eating the payoff for your risk.

$500 or $1000k/sq ft. Harlem is not the neighbordhood to buy in a down market.

The reason Chelsea is "smokin'" despite the projects is because gay men who saw it as the next best thing to the West Village moved in. They didn't care that the schools are crap. This brought an influx of upper-middle-class types and businesses catering to them, but for the most part the families don't stay because of the schools (especially now that the schools in the Village aren't accepting variances). There are many wonderful things about Harlem, including the community, the housing stock, etc., and for all I know it could be the Next Big Thing. But the comparison to Chelsea is not apt. It's not just the crime (or the perception of it) in Harlem, by the way, it's also the lack of good public schools that keeps this area from becoming truly desirable.

The vibe in chelsea is totally different than Harlem. The projects are few and far between in Chelsea and even if they are there they don't seem to bother people. The Maritime hotel has one of the best sushi restaurants across from the projects but it doesn't seem shady. However, walking around Harlem is a totally different vibe. It seems much shadier. Plus, a lot of the public housing in chelsea is specifically for old people, who don't bother anyone (all of those developments near FIT). I don't think Harlem is the next big thing. Its far too unsafe to be the next big thing. When you walk around in Chelsea, you don't worry about being shot. In Harlem, they just had a killing over a gold chain. That wouldn't happen in Chelsea.

First of all, the "old people" buildings (Penn South) near FIT weren't built for old people -- they just somehow got old along the way (funny how that happens). But they're for middle-income, not low-income. The low-income ones are between 9th & 10th.

Second, Chelsea's low-income projects (they're the ones without balconies) used to be considered an impediment to gentrification in exactly the same way many here now consider Harlem's projects. Same thing for EV and LES -- they were considered the Great Wall of China vis a vis gentrification. Unstoppably forbidding. But that turned out not to be the case.

The comparison isn't between Chelsea 2007 and Harlem 2007 (duh!). It's between Chelsea then and Harlem now, with Harlem's future in mind.

But in terms of safety, Harlem has very little crime that affects people who aren't already mired in crime and hanging out with criminals.

Agree with many of these comments about the safety in Harlem. No single woman should move into Harlem that has any other choice available to her