Bank sale, foreclosure and short sale thread

aboutready
about 1 hour ago
ignore this person
report abuse this is kind of interesting. no listing, bank sale. took BONY a year, for whatever reason, to unload it. purchased the unit 12/10/08 for $175,531, sold 12/31/09 for $321,000, $677 psf, well below building average. closest comp i can find, no idea of condition of either unit, is 8G, which sold for $445,000 in 12/05.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/950905

Source thread: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/7618-if-you-can-demonstrate-market-movement-with-comps-midtown-edition?page=2

The latest scheduled auction for this one is 1/13: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/416007-condo-845-united-nations-plaza-turtle-bay-new-york

It's been hanging fire for a while, though. The owner paid $3.25M in 2005, and bought a couple of other World Tower units.

aboutready
about 8 weeks ago
ignore this person
report abuse thanks hr. haven't done this in awhile, and i'm still at home with the flu, so i thought why not.

this one is one to notice. 3 hanover square, 14G. just closed for $349k. 17G, listed at 960sf, closed for $805k in 06/08. 11G, $755k, 11/07. no listing for 14G so i can't confirm they are the same size and/or condition, but 14G is between the two.

seller? wells fargo.

Adding link to the closing:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/932770

Here's a short. Not sure the buyer got such a great deal though as it needed quite a bit of work.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/346363-condo-342-west-85th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

West81st
about 3 months ago
ignore this person
report abuse 115 East 87th Street #6DE: Same unit resale of a Carnegie Hill eight. Closed 35% below owners' 2005 basis, in a bankruptcy liquidation. Agent for the failed listing was one of the owners.
06/23/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $2,695,000.
10/28/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Loho Realty at $2,999,999.
01/22/2009 Delisted.
09/15/2009 Sale recorded for $1,750,000.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/360422-coop-115-east-87th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york
Streetesasy only shows a small fraction of the complex history on this one. The owners appear to have listed the property with Stribling for $3.975MM in 2006, then tried again through "LoHo Realty" from early 2008 onward, initially asking $4.25MM.

Source thread: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/7617-if-you-can-demonstrate-market-movement-with-comps-upper-east-side-edition?page=7

I have to say,considering the quantity of underwater manhattan apts,I've been surprised by the low amount of short sale purchasing opportunites the last 6 months.

There was only 1 that crossed my path, if I recall the building was called Soma on west 22nd st. And I think it was supposedly in contract with three offers and still didnt go through.

Back-up for spinnaker1's short sale analysis.

Previous $1,325,000 purchase was 90% financed with $1,000,000 first and $192,000 second. Sold for $940,000 before costs so seller either wrote a check or second got wiped and first lost $60,000 plus transaction costs

for some reason i can't find the 220 rsb bank sale. the one where there was rather spirited discussion of whether an insider got the deal, and then the purchaser showed up on the thread and became rather irritated with the conjecture. i thought it was on the uws comps thread, but i can't find it.

here's the sale. i meant i couldn't find the discussion of it.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/906090

Is this the thread your looking for?

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/4683-at-trump-place-220-220-rsb-some-lines-appear-to-be-nearing-2004-2005-price-levels?page=2

Last of my seed posts. Significant discussion follows truthskr10's original post on the source thread.

truthskr10
about 3 months ago
ignore this person
report abuse Fell on this one by accident. Looks like maybe it was a short sale?

251 west 19th st.
3C was bought in '06 for 2,350,000.
1822 sq ft.
Then the owner mortgaged 2,115,000 of it. (yes the disaster that was countrywide mortg)

Bought 8/13/09 for 1,210,000!!!

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/72443-condo-251-west-19th-street-chelsea-new-york

block 00769 lot 1314

StreetEasy History
06/16/2004Previous Sale recorded for $(insiders only)
12/07/2005Previous Sale recorded for $(insiders only)
03/10/2007Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $3,400,000.
04/09/2007Price decreased by 19% to $2,750,000.
05/15/2007Price decreased by 24% to $2,100,000.
07/02/2007Price increased by 7% to $2,240,000.
09/18/2007Price increased by 7% to $2,400,000.
06/22/2009Sale recorded for $(insiders only) [Ed. note: $1,210,000]
08/12/2009Listing is no longer available.

Source thread: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/7613-if-you-can-demonstrate-market-movement-with-comps-downtown-edition?page=4

Also at http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/14051-220-rsd-bank-sale

Update on truthskr10's 251 West 19th St find, BONY has been trying to sell it since October. Three price chops; currently temporarily delisted.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/467813-condo-251-west-19th-street-chelsea-new-york
06/16/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $1,201,280.
12/07/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $2,350,000.
03/10/2007 Previously Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $3,400,000.
06/22/2009 Previous Sale recorded for $1,210,000.
08/12/2009 Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $2,400,000.
10/01/2009 Listed by Gumley Haft Kleier at $1,794,900.
10/29/2009 Price decreased by 2% to $1,767,900.
11/19/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $1,692,900.
12/09/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,599,900.
01/05/2010 Delisted temporarily.

Here is the discussion your looking for:

https://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/14051-220-rsd-bank-sale?page=2

I do find it rather interesting that the owner of the unit being discussed just happens to show up right in the middle of the thread...

...and the condos take an early lead.

sidelinesitter
Oh, I remember that one. I don't have the head for that one on a friday! LOL
I think we'll need a seasoned lawyer to run us through that one.

That building has a lot of strange stuff going on when you look at other units as well.That's the one with the penthouse that was oncve owned by Stephen Dorf that the current owner was trying to sell at like 2000 psf.
There were 2 or three other units there with a story as well that I can't remember.

His name is in the thread somewhere, so a Google alert or something would've let him know we were conspiracy-theorizing.

I remember that one too, it was an asian name if i recall?

Common-charges liens are interesting, too. Problem is, hard to find them on ACRIS for a whole building, as "Board of Managers of Tacquey Condominium", for instance, is abbreviated lots of different ways.

SLS, do you need a tissue for your seeds?

Thank you for doing this... I may name my first puppy sidelinesitter.... am I the only one LMAO?

See for the bullz... this is called "predicting".

"Common-charges liens are interesting, too. Problem is, hard to find them on ACRIS for a whole building, as "Board of Managers of Tacquey Condominium", for instance, is abbreviated lots of different ways."

You only need the condo name, not the whole thing, so you may find it easier to just used that and weed thru the results a little more.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/14936-short-sale-foreclosure-at-70-washington-street-9h

Mentions some buildings to watch: http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/a-manhattan-apartment-for-the-price-of-a-car

Wow, I missed that one. I used to look for foreclosure deals. Haven't had time to look at the notices lately. I wonder what 2 units "Adam" bought on the UWS for 1.5m+. Anyone?

Does anyone know if banks have different strategies or routines when it come to REO? I am looking at a place that was purchased at auction last August for the amount owed. The property is not on the market right now. I would be interested in purchasing it for the same amount. Is it worth it to approach the bank directly, or do they unload via a third party?
I'd love some advice on how to craft a winning offer ( ie easy for the bank to deal with me.)

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/243-west-98-street-manhattan

Purchase: 01/12/2006 #3B $800,000
Foreclosure by US Bank: 10/22/2008 #3B $500
Sale by US Bank: 01/28/2010 #3B $270,000

The last one is pretty amazing, sidelinesitter. The crux of the matter is who gets there first, I guess an insider.

The '06 buyer of 3B at 243 W 98, a 30-year-old employee of mortgage brokerage firm AGA Capital, ended up pleading guilty to participating in a multimillion-dollar subprime mortgage fraud scheme. She and two colleagues purchased a block of ten rent-regulated condominium apartments at 243 West 98th. Interesting cautionary tale, covered in Habitat Magazine: The Case of the Reckless Russians:

http://www.habitatmag.com/index.php/habitat/publication_content/2009_february/featured_articles_from_our_print_magazine/law_lessons_part_3_the_case_of_the_reckless_russians

With respect to seven of the ten Apartments, subprime lenders were falsely told in mortgage applications and supporting documents that the buyers intended to live in the Apartments as a “primary residence.” With respect to there maining three Apartments, subprime lenders were falsely told that the Apartments were to be used as “investment properties” that earned approximately $6500 a month in rent from tenants. None of the documents submitted to the subprime lenders disclosed that: (1) certain buyers were seeking loans to purchase more than one Apartment as a “primary residence;” (2) each of the Apartments was already occupied by a tenant and therefore not suitable for a primary residence; or (3) the Apartments were subject to rent regulation laws that precluded the buyer from charging $6500 in rent.

http://www.mortgagefraudblog.com/index.php/weblog/permalink/3_guilty_pleas_in_multi_million_dollar_mortgage_fraud_case/

Bottom line is the 2006 price paid for 243 west 98 #3B was wildly inflated, so the price paid in the bank sale this year is not that amazing, I guess.

PHE is the same here as 5/6E and 56E. 1853 sf 3/3 duplex. closed for $1,170,000 03/08. advertised in top listing as short sale, too lazy to look it up in ACRIS.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/375671-condo-170-john-street-financial-district-new-york

01/16/2009Listed by Prudential Elliman at $1,600,000.
02/27/2009Price decreased by 3% to $1,550,000.
03/31/2009Price decreased by 10% to $1,399,000.
07/17/2009Listing is no longer available.
07/25/2009Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
07/25/2009Price decreased by 7% to $1,300,000.
09/01/2009Listing is no longer available.
09/11/2009Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
10/06/2009Listing entered contract.
10/31/2009Listing is no longer available.
11/10/2009Listing entered contract.
03/09/2010Listing is no longer available.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/236971-condo-170-john-street-financial-district-new-york

05/15/2008Listed by Corcoran at $1,750,000.
07/23/2008Delisted temporarily.
09/17/2008Re-listed by Corcoran.
09/17/2008Price increased by 7% to $1,875,000.
10/30/2008Listing is no longer available.

re: 170 John, PHE. I love ACRIS, so I had a look.

Purchased in July 2001 for $800k with a $600k mortgage

Refi'd to $750k in January 2005, rolling over $294k of unpaid principal and cashing out $456k

Refi'd again to $1,312.5k in September 2005, rolling over the $750k from January and cashing out $562.5k.

But wait, there's more...

Took out a $185k HELOC (thank you HSBC!) in April 2006.

So following cash in and out, they put in $200k of equity and repaid about $300k of the initial mortgage in the first few years. Then they took out a bit over a million (double what they ever had in it), plus whatever they drew on the HELOC, and left the bank(s) holding the bag on about $140k on the first mtg plus whatever on the HELOC. Classic!

SLS: But, of course, the mere presence of coops in Manhattan prevented this from happening.

SNs - of course. Goes without saying. Clearly a one-off and not otherwise relevant to the Manhattan market.

"SLS: But, of course, the mere presence of coops in Manhattan prevented this from happening."

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

sheffield 57.

shhh, nobody tell alpo!

here's the end result for 251 West 19th, 3C. developer also just sold 1D unfinished at fire sale pricing.

06/16/2004Previous Sale recorded for $1,201,280.
12/07/2005Previous Sale recorded for $2,350,000.
03/10/2007Previously Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $3,400,000.
06/22/2009Previous Sale recorded for $1,232,082.
08/12/2009Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $2,400,000.
10/01/2009Listed by Gumley Haft Kleier at $1,794,900.
10/29/2009Price decreased by 2% to $1,767,900.
11/19/2009Price decreased by 4% to $1,692,900.
12/09/2009Price decreased by 5% to $1,599,900.
01/05/2010Delisted temporarily.
01/23/2010Re-listed by Gumley Haft Kleier.
02/08/2010Listing entered contract.
03/26/2010Listing sold.
03/26/2010Sale recorded for $0.
03/26/2010Sale recorded for $1,578,287.

schaefer landing north.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/517775-condo-440-kent-avenue-williamsburg-brooklyn
11/01/2005Previously Listed in StreetEasy, but no longer available, by Prudential Elliman at $755,000.
11/02/2006Prudential Elliman Listing sold.
11/02/2006Previous Sale recorded for $768,778.
04/28/2010Listed by Corcoran at $595,000.

here's a central harlem 8-unit development that was auctioned off in 01/09, sold for original 12/06 purchase price of building, $1.7mm. i presume at least some of the work had been completed at the time of the auction. 4A, a small 2/1 condo, recently sold for $324,000 or $385 psf.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/790363

Wow aboutready. The $500psf disease, it does seem to be spreading.

Yes, it's interesting pricing and I appreciate the post. However I have to say they have a photo of these apartments that I had seen in the past and it just made me laugh. It's a photo of the kitchen, where apparently they put in a floor to ceiling cabinet with some appliances, and that whole section of cabinet half way covers up the kitchen window.

You can see this on the photos for unit 5A.

I remember when I first saw that, I just thought gee the construction here must be quite lousy if they would build in a cabinet like that. How do you open and close the window?

I don't know, it doesn't look promising. I would be highly skeptical of all the work done in a place like this.

Anyone know anytyhing about 283 West Broadway? I beleive developer filed for bankruptcy, seems to be just sitting there...nothing sold, project near completion

Good luck getting what's owed

http://www.maltzauctions.com/auction_detail.php?id=120159

"Wow aboutready. The $500psf disease, it does seem to be spreading."

67, can you fire up the schtoogen array calculator and extrapolate 06 pricing on failed sub prime Harlem developments to prime UWS? I'm ready for a change cuz the sun on this terrace is just kicking my ass.

Spinny. Most cancers it is believed start from ONE cell gone bad. When the body is healthy, no chance of cancer. Now in 2006, the 'aura' of a foreclosure bargain wouldve been like a lemon juice to lemmings.

That fact even Harlem is down should tell you thr body is not healthy.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/502795-condo-635-west-42nd-street-clinton-new-york

04/09/2007Previous Sale recorded for $661,862.
12/06/2007Previously Listed by Citi-Habitats at $705,000.
03/21/2008Citi-Habitats Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $680,000.
05/20/2009Also Listed by River2River Realty at $670,000.
11/30/2009Re-listed by River2River Realty. Last priced at $725,000.
03/16/2010Listed by Luxor Homes & Investment Realty at $499,000.
04/07/2010Previously Listed by River2River Realty at $499,000.
04/24/2010River2River Realty Listing is no longer available.

this isn't particularly meaningful because although there are two F line past sales, i have no idea of whether this sale, 3F, has the same floorplan. but HSBC sold this coop for $515,000. 1F and 5F sold for $775k and $1,565,000 09/09 and 01/07. no listing.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/1014161

short sale Trump River Place 120 Riverside Boulevard 14G 1 bedroom. $799,000. link:
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=1067321&rentalperiod=&SearchType=Broker_Current&Region=NYC&BID=LMI

Or http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/526545-condo-120-riverside-boulevard-lincoln-square-new-york

The borrower stopped paying CCs in November 2007 and died in September 2008.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/502555-house-230-west-139th-street-central-harlem-new-york

09/08/2006Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $2,395,000.
07/09/2008Delisted temporarily by Prudential Elliman. Last priced at $2,900,000.
09/25/2008Previously Listed by Corcoran at $2,675,000.
03/24/2009Corcoran Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $2,300,000.
03/15/2010Listed by Luxor Homes & Investment Realty at $850,000.

wonder if it went for over asking?

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/499694-condo-55-wall-street-financial-district-new-york

08/03/2006Previous Sale recorded for $855,157.
03/03/2010Listed by Corcoran at $499,000.
04/29/2010Listing entered contract.

another coop.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/489500-coop-465-west-23rd-street-chelsea-new-york

12/14/2005Previous Sale recorded for $499,000.
01/15/2010Listed by Prudential Elliman at $459,000.
01/30/2010Price increased by 5% to $480,000.
03/12/2010Price decreased by 3% to $465,000.
05/13/2010Price decreased by 3% to $449,000.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/488585-condo-310-east-53rd-street-sutton-place-new-york

12/22/2006Previous Sale recorded for $2,032,477.
01/05/2007Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $2,375,000.
04/07/2007Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $2,280,000.
10/14/2009Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $1,795,000.
01/11/2010Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available.
01/12/2010Listed by Izsak Realty at $1,795,000.
03/17/2010Price decreased by 6% to $1,695,000.
05/06/2010Price decreased by 12% to $1,500,000.

another one at 120 RSB

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/481624-condo-120-riverside-boulevard-lincoln-square-new-york
04/04/2006Previous Sale recorded for $599,000.
12/02/2009Listed by Prudential Elliman at $550,000.

more at 55 wall

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/433964-condo-55-wall-street-financial-district-new-york

09/01/2006Previous Sale recorded for $1,274,120.
07/02/2009Listed by Corcoran at $950,000.
11/19/2009Price decreased by 2% to $930,000.
02/22/2010Price decreased by 3% to $899,000.
04/29/2010Listing entered contract.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/433956-condo-55-wall-street-financial-district-new-york

07/27/2006Previous Sale recorded for $1,305,887.
03/21/2007Previous Sale recorded for $100,000.
04/13/2007Previously Listed by Corcoran at $1,650,000.
08/31/2008Delisted temporarily by Corcoran. Last priced at $1,350,000.
07/02/2009Listed by Corcoran at $950,000.
02/22/2010Price decreased by 5% to $899,000.
04/26/2010Listing entered contract.

the armory, another coop

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/373861-coop-529-w-42nd-st-clinton-new-york

01/29/2006Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $1,795,000.
05/30/2006Previous Sale recorded for $1,795,000.
07/21/2006Prudential Elliman Listing sold.
11/26/2007Previously Listed by Corcoran at $3,365,000.
06/16/2008Delisted temporarily by Corcoran. Last priced at $2,100,000.
01/11/2009Listed by Bond New York at $2,150,000.
01/21/2009Price decreased by 7% to $2,000,000.
02/10/2009Price decreased by 15% to $1,700,000.
02/19/2009Listing is no longer available.
03/08/2009Re-listed by Bond New York.
05/21/2009Price decreased by 12% to $1,499,000.
01/14/2010Listing is no longer available.
01/21/2010Re-listed by Bond New York.
02/11/2010Price decreased by 7% to $1,399,000.
03/20/2010Listing is no longer available.
03/29/2010Re-listed by Bond New York.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/152148-condo-1200-fifth-avenue-east-harlem-new-york

03/29/2006Previously Listed by Corcoran at $1,534,000.
10/31/2007Corcoran Listing sold. Last priced at $1,380,000.
10/31/2007Previous Sale recorded for $1,389,911.
11/06/2007Listed by Corcoran at $1,525,000.
11/28/2007Listing is no longer available.
01/08/2008Re-listed by Corcoran.
02/28/2008Price decreased by 3% to $1,475,000.
01/14/2009Price decreased by 21% to $1,158,000.
01/21/2009Listing is no longer available.
03/19/2009Re-listed by Corcoran.
03/19/2009Price decreased by 14% to $999,000.
05/21/2009Listing is no longer available.
09/25/2009Re-listed by Corcoran.
11/21/2009Listing is no longer available.
03/08/2010Re-listed by Corcoran.

ar, you're on a roll. One could could almost start to think that short sales are actually possible in Manhattan. But of course we know that these listings must be mirages, since we read so many times right here on the SE boards that this couldn't happen in Manhattan. Yes, mirages, that must be it.

sls, will never happen, not here.

this is one fugly listing history. they can't give this one away, the first sale was a bank acquiring the property. SRO, complete and utter headache.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/529208-townhouse-465-west-147th-street-central-harlem-new-york

04/17/2006Previous Sale recorded for $802,477.
01/09/2007Previous Sale recorded for $790,000.
07/11/2007Previous Sale recorded for $1,500,000.
06/05/2008Previously Listed by Mark David at $850,000.
06/24/2008Previously Listed by Mark David at $550,000.
06/25/2008Mark David Listing is no longer available.
06/26/2008Previously Listed by Mark David at $550,000.
06/26/2008Mark David Listing is no longer available.
10/30/2008Previously Listed by Mark David at $500,000.
10/30/2008Previously Listed by Mark David at $500,000.
10/31/2008Mark David Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $750,000.
11/06/2008Previously Listed by Mark David at $250,000.
11/06/2008Previously Listed by Mark David at $250,000.
11/06/2008Previously Listed by Mark David at $250,000.
11/07/2008Mark David Listing is no longer available.
11/07/2008Mark David Listing is no longer available.
11/25/2008Mark David Listing is no longer available.
11/25/2008Mark David Listing is no longer available.
11/25/2008Mark David Listing is no longer available.
06/02/2010Listed by Mark David at $500,000.

AR: sad thing is that it only makes sense for a $$$-ed slumlord to buy it and make it miserable for existing tenants.

yeah, a "shell" with SRO tenants won't appeal to many.

aboutready, that SRO shell is kind of fascinating though. I don't know much about how a conversion would work, but from what I can tell, you'd need to file for a Certificate of No Harassment, which seems to take 3 years to get. Not sure how many of the 7 rooms are currently occupied, but 7 isn't as daunting a number as I've heard of in some SRO buildings. If you can get the building vacant and do a decent gut reno, this could be a worthwhile investment. (Note: I'm completely assuming you can lowball this given its listing history, perhaps to something under $200k). I think most of us expect the economy to have finally improved in 4-5 years' time, which makes this kind of waiting game kind of interesting. Or am I nuts? At least this beats another bear-bull thread.

Thx u aboutready!

Where's ksepak? WTF $500k from $2mm, jeez talk about a great opportunity for a single family Harlem th conversion.

bjw, it'll likely take a million to reno the thing. i'd wait until a reno'd townhouse is in foreclosure, or short sale. much less hassle, and less cost.

it's also high up there, which will limit its appeal.

That's the thing. It costs almost as much to build/renovate something as to buy something renovated UNLESS you're in the biz. In which case you ARE the labor. It's begging for a slumlord to get the tenants out. They tried giving some of these away to non-profits, only to have scam artists get involved (refi for a high amount, then skip town). Truly, some of these issues go way beyond getting a good deal. On one hand, you need to provide housing for the SRO tenants, on the other, it costs so much to rehabilitate, etc. Would be almost better just giving the house over to the tenants. But wait, they tried that..

I tried to invest in Harlem about 5+ years ago, and it was very discouraging. I couldn't for the life of me, even back then, get the #s to work. If you're not in the biz, those shells cost so much to renovate, that in the end, it didn't make sense.

Which leads me to the - yes, I do think there's an oversupply of houses in Harlem. And in general, the UWS has so many THs which are owned by Arlias/Bruscos/small-time LLs whose biz model makes no sense, that it would be interesting to see what happens when they decide to ALL sell out at the same time. BTW, you can get a half RS, half FM beauty in prime UWS (wide too) for 2m today.

nyc10023, any more detail/specifics on the reno costs? I'm guessing the foundation (if it needs work), floors, HVAC, and insulation are the costliest bits? How much for each? I'm just not familiar enough with a gut job to know with any degree of confidence.

Assume you have NOTHING except for the bare walls, and there's nothing to preserve. So you're paying for the brick facade, maybe doing some foundation work. I have a very reliable source who says you're not going to get much change from 350/sqft.

If you were GCing the job yourself, paying for the insurance, hiring an architect for minimal stuff. Maybe 200/sqft if you know what you're doing.

I looked at a Harlem shell in '04. Complete shell, roof open to element for years, debris, bird crap, rodent crap, needles, HORRIBLE. Nothing left to preserve. Would have cost 600k+ to build up again. On 132nd street. They wanted minimum 400k cash. And this was vacant, not SRO, blablabla. I couldn't make the numbers work. With carrying costs, transaction costs, etc. I'm taking on way to much risk to maybe, maybe, maybe sell for 1.5m at the ht of the market.

The going rate for the gut renovation of a harlem townhouse is approx $80k/floor. This gets you marble and tile counters and bathroom floors, oak flooring, air conditioning (split), deck, 4-5 bathrooms and 2 kitchens, new boiler, roof, heating system, etc, appliances at upper end of US /Korean brands and a pretty nice finish.
Check the Brownstone Diary on WSJ for one person who is doing this. There are at least 2 other friends who are doing this with a GC on buildings that had a certificate of non-harassment.
Of course, in NYC it is possible to pay 500psf or 80 psf for roughly the same thing. All depends on your willingness to pay and how much you are willing to show you love the GC
One of our friends is being his own GC and his renovation budget for the full townhouse is about $250k.
I suspect that if you live in 10023 you will pay what they ask.
You should check around and get refs on contractors and get specific bids from them that can be used to get a loan. That will clear up the process for you better than asking people here.

What's GC ?

JD: I am going by Brooklyn prices. Not 10023 prices :) I suspect the 80k/floor is not a full gut - which is down to the brick. Sure, if you GC yourself, and put in labor, then you could be down to as little as the cost of materials.

GC - General Contractor

nyc10023.... "BTW, you can get a half RS, half FM beauty in prime UWS (wide too) for 2m today."

Are you sure about that? 3mm, maybe. 2mm? I haven't seen that...yet. Perhaps for a four story.

do auctions count for this thread? divorce situation. listing states $350k in renovations.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/529422-condo-400-east-51st-street-beekman-new-york

11/02/2006Previous Sale recorded for $2,275,000.
04/12/2008Previously Listed by Corcoran at $3,995,000.
11/25/2009Corcoran Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $2,550,000.
01/04/2010Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $2,450,000.
05/28/2010Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $2,250,000.
06/02/2010Listed by David R. Maltz & Co. at $1,300,000.

Can someone tell me what the 2 Dune Road houses owned by Dreier ended up going for? Thanks.

The Dreier properties auction looks to be June 17th.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202430834935

Date on article is '09.

nyc10023:

Courtesty of Streeteasy's Hamptons edition:

$6,525,000
07/17/2009
111 Dune Rd
Residential, Hampton Bays
Seller: Dreier, M By Tr
Buyer: 111 East Quogue LLC

$3,775,000
07/14/2009
109 Dune Rd
Residential, Westhampton Beach
Seller: Dreier, M By Tr
Buyer: Dune Road 109 Eq LLC

oops. my bad

we have a Brooklyn contractor giving us (and doing 2 renovations at the moment for close friends) at $80k/floor -- gut to brick
Happy to put you in touch if needed. Specs are as I listed in the previous post.
The same person was not coming down below $120k/floor in 2007 when I was considering doing something similar. Something to keep in mind. :)

Bryant Park Towers, 100 West 39th, early sale in new development.

41J sold for $621,132 09/06. sold 05/26/10 by a referee to BAC Home Loans Servicing for $500.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/538539-condo-555-west-23rd-street-chelsea-new-york

12/27/2005Previous Sale recorded for $544,927.
07/09/2010Listed by Prudential Elliman at $470,000.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/538331-condo-20-west-street-financial-district-new-york

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/527951-condop-343-east-74th-street-upper-east-side-new-york

08/29/2008Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $3,200,000.
10/08/2008Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $2,600,000.
01/29/2009Previously Listed by Akam Sales and Brokerage at $799,000.
05/15/2009Akam Sales and Brokerage Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $599,000.
10/08/2009Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $1,950,000.
12/04/2009Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available.
05/26/2010Listed by Prudential Elliman at $1,100,000.
05/27/2010Listing is no longer available.
07/01/2010Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
07/08/2010Price increased by 5% to $1,150,000.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/537486-condo-301-west-110th-street-central-harlem-new-york

11/02/2005Previously Listed by Corcoran at $479,000.
02/11/2006Corcoran Listing sold. Last priced at $459,000.
04/12/2006Previous Sale recorded for $445,000.
04/18/2009Previously Listed by Willie Kathryn Suggs at $569,795.
05/07/2010Willie Kathryn Suggs Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $300,000.
07/03/2010Listed by Willie Kathryn Suggs at $397,950.

2200 sf full-floor coop loft. needs work. was on the market for %2.8mm, now $1.5mm.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/537473-coop-55-west-16th-street-chelsea-new-york

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/530027-condo-2119-5th-ave-central-harlem-new-york

1250ish sf unit, sold for $646,888 11/04. now on the market for $450k.

this is 23F. can't find a prior sales record, which would seem to indicate that it was one of the initial insider conversion sales in 2002/03ish. for comparison, 26F sold for $985k 05/06, and 22F sold for $410,619 02/03. if this was one of the early insider sales, this borrower much have had a field day taking out money.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/521581-condo-1619-third-avenue-yorkville-new-york

05/13/2010Listed by Charles Rutenberg at $949,000.
06/09/2010Price decreased by 6% to $889,000.
07/15/2010Price decreased by 7% to $825,000.

this one's in contract. but the last ask was over 40% below a mid-2007 sales price.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/507462-condo-1630-madison-avenue-east-harlem-new-york

08/11/2006Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $350,000.
06/12/2007Prudential Elliman Listing sold. Last priced at $330,000.
08/23/2007Previous Sale recorded for $330,000.
10/22/2009Previously Listed by A-List Properties at $325,000.
03/28/2010A-List Properties Listing is no longer available.
04/04/2010Listed by Harlem Lofts at $189,000.
07/20/2010Listing entered contract.

a 2002 new development. it seems as though the 2004 sale was from the sponsor. price increased almost 90% between 2004 and 2007.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/502788-condo-3760-west-28th-street-chelsea-new-york

08/10/2004Previous Sale recorded for $481,700.
05/01/2007Previously Listed by Corcoran at $799,000.
08/09/2007Corcoran Listing sold.
08/09/2007Previous Sale recorded for $881,000.
06/18/2008Previously Listed by Corcoran at $975,000.
08/12/2008Delisted temporarily by Corcoran.
03/16/2010Listed by CORE at $890,000.
04/13/2010Price decreased by 12% to $784,900.
04/29/2010Price increased by 8% to $849,000.
06/06/2010Price decreased by 1% to $839,000.
07/14/2010Price decreased by 2% to $819,000.

the mtc. here is very high, building has mtc. issues, but this is nonetheless quite the drop in price.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/500706-coop-301-east-63rd-street-lenox-hill-new-york
06/13/2006Previous Sale recorded for $372,000.
03/06/2010Listed by Olshan Realty at $160,000.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/491280-condo-330-east-33rd-street-kips-bay-new-york

04/12/2007Previous Sale recorded for $463,000.
04/14/2008Previously Listed by Prudential Elliman at $450,000.
06/17/2008Delisted temporarily by Prudential Elliman. Last priced at $460,000.
06/02/2009Previously Listed by Noble Realty at $499,000.
06/19/2009Noble Realty Listing is no longer available.
01/22/2010Listed by Prudential Elliman at $435,000.
06/04/2010Listing entered contract.

very small 2/2 in east harlem. have to wonder what the buyer was thinking in 2007. i still don't think it was a decent deal at the last listing price.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/486112-condo-2132-second-avenue-east-harlem-new-york

05/25/2006Previously Listed by Warburg at $570,982.
08/10/2007Previous Sale recorded for $524,398.
08/21/2007Warburg Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $519,075.
12/30/2009Listed by Prudential Elliman at $430,000.
01/29/2010Price decreased by 7% to $399,000.
03/01/2010Price decreased by 8% to $369,000.
04/08/2010Listing entered contract.

ar, re: #23F in Ruppert Towers, the original sale, per ACRIS, was for $454,627 on 2/20/03. Manhattan block 1536, lot 1242.

The strange thing is that ACRIS shows no mortgage filed against the property, either for purchase or since, so I wonder how it got to be a short sale. Unless brokers are now using the "Short sale" (or rather "**SHORT SALE!!**") label as a marketing gimmick to make buyers think they are getting a bargain...

sls, thanks for looking that up. that is strange. some people here seem confused about the definition of a short sale, but one would hope the realtor would have a grasp of the concept.

although, giving the broker a possible benefit of the doubt, things do get misentered into the system rather frequently. maybe the purchase was without a mortgage but the refi didn't get entered. dunno.

At 330 East 33rd, on the other hand, there is mortgage debt galore. 80% first and 20% 2nd lien, both from JPM. In case anyone is having a little trouble with the figures, that translates into zero equity, a.k.a, no money down. Very Miami-esque.

So that was May 2008. The buyer must never have paid a dime in common charges, because by February 2009 there was a lien on the property for about $5,200, which is about 10 months of common charges and taxes. This got paid off later in 2009, all per ACRIS.

Back on Ruppert Towers, I take your point on the mortgage getting recorded, although banks are pretty careful to record their liens in order to perfect them and ensure priority vs. other liens. Not that a bank couldn't have messed up the recording and never known about it (this was the era of banks messing up, after all), but they have a strong incentive to do it right.

i agree, it seems fishy. just floating a possibility.

this seems like a bank sale to me. 4B, no listing, sold for $100k, 7/8/10. 5B sold for $689,000.
the seller is listed as pf properties, care of pf financial services. am i missing something here?

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/1620372