Do you ever feel sad/nostalgic about NY?

What's your old NY? I hated the NY of Giuliani and can't say I've really enjoyed the NY of the Housing Bubble.
The NY of the last 10 Years have anihilated NY sub cultures and turned it into an elitist boring city...

Never heard of any of these. New York changes, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse, but any living city should be expected to change. If you stop that you've created a museum.

sledgehammer - I was born here, and I've been in NY my whole life. Maybe I was addressing my question to native NY'ers.
riversider - Max Fish was the first bar on Ludlow Street.

avery, i'm not a native, and yes i feel nostalgic. not for everything, but for quite a bit.

i miss williams chicken.

aboutready - Thanks. I completely agree. You summed up perfectly what I was trying to express.

I miss the Bendix Diner on Eighth and 19th.

I really miss Barney's on Seventh and 17th.

And I really really really miss the World Trade Center.

Dumas bakery, arberann meat market and 86th street before gimbels.

that libreria on 14th street betw 6th and 7th.....it closed a couple years ago...

I miss the NY with an edge. I miss the Soho of "After Hours" and the East Village of "Taxi Driver"...

and the subway with no air conditioning.

but, as riversider noted (and we're in agreement on this), nyc evolves,like any city......

for example, now rizzoli books on 57th street has expanded their spanish section (though it isn't going to replace an entire book store, and the one on 14th was the only one...)

that's pretty funny, isn't it?

agreeing with yourself.

Tower Records (which was like 4th and broadway)....

the HUGE selection of bootleg cds that used to be at two stores on Thompson Street ....(Generation Records still there but such a small selection, even at the other store on bleecker that supposedly carries them..)

Scribner's.

I remember going to Max Fish wearing a miniskirt (I am a child of the '80s, after all) and feeling wildly overdressed.

In addition to everything mentioned above (though let's not forget the GIANT Bendix cockroaches) ... Tribeca's Royal Canadian Pancake House. The Palladium when it wasn't a dorm. Limelight when it wasn't a mall. Pat's Jazz Bar on 23rd and 6th. The Homer Diner in the West Village. CBGBs -- not only back before it closed, but back before people wore its T-shirts.

ali r.

no

um, Fillmore East? also that pool hall at the beginning of Madison, the one where you had to walk up a flight or two and go back a hunnerd years. Phoenix Garden, when it was in the alleyway, and the lady in Mosco Alley, with the delicious things dusted with powdered shoogah. The bookstores on 4th Ave. The sun-coming-up deals one could strike at the Fulton mrkt. Stretching out in a Checkahhh... The Ear, when it was on the waterfront :-)

oh, birdier, you make me so happy.

red-vinyl banquette restaurants in Midtown (think China Bowl and Woo Lae Oak) ..the Holograph Museum, a magical place for a then-tween ...the Rainbow Room...

horses in Central Park. Ratners (or was it Rappaports) on Second Avenue (or was it First) with endless bread and pickles, a whole bunch of empty lots that are now highrises, National Wholesale Liquidators on B'way near Houston.

This thread is making me feel melancholy--weather is not helping either!!
buyerbuyer--was that libreria between 6 and 7 or 7 and 8?? I lived at the Vermeer way back when and thought it was west of 7th!!! I haven't been down that way in years--did not know it closed!

I miss Joe Jr's on 12th & 6th.

I miss the Bottom Line on west 4th.

I don't miss smoking in bars, though. I don't miss that one bit.

What you guys are missing is your YOUTH, not old NYC. I was born and raised here, and don't miss much of anything. Garbage everywhere, graffitti and broken subway system, carrying a knife and sometimes a gun for protection, not being able to travel in certain areas safely, bombed out buildings, etc. NYC is WAY better today thanks to demographics, the economy, Giuliani and Bloomberg.

And one more thing, paying protection money to the mob to run many different businesses!

Mpanch. There is a lot of validity to what you say, but on the other hand, some of the bohemian stuff is gone that gave the city character (the west village is more boring today than even 15 years ago); lots of bookstores and record stores are gone, and for me that makes the city less fun to walk around on a sunday afternoon.

buyerbuyer-

Agreed 100%. I am definitely against the Walmartification of NYC, but I don't have any answers on how it can be stopped.

Some great memories here. Thanks, and happy holidays.

danceteria

No. The more elite and upscale the better.

book stores and record stores are gone EVERYWHERE ON EARTH. have you not heard of the Internet?

Sounds Records on St. Marks Place.

I miss the Milestone Restaurant on West 68th St. and does anyone remember Ying's Hunan on Columbus? This was the west side when John Lennon roamed the neighborhood.

Totally clear that bookstores and record stores are less present (not exactly gone everywhere), due to the internet. But nevertheless, NYC was never just the same as other cities with some bookstores and record stores; it was a really cool place to walk around, and that walk around vibe isn't what it used to be, imho.

You still have art stores, but it's not exactly the same thing.

WTF is an art store?

I remember back one Christmas Eve in the late 1980s, had to borrow the toilet plunger for my apartment.

Wait, was that me, or was that aboutready? Or are we the same person? inonada, can you help us out please, you got the last one spot on target.

Yes, walking over dead bodies and needles on the streets is "so cool"

Walking past nasty bombed out buildings is soooo cool.

Being gunned down during your Sunday stroll is sooooo cool!

I'm only 25 but I know NYC was a cesspool in those days. It looked so ugly and dark from what I've seen in documentaries and movies.

NYC has never fully recovered what it lost (the Fortune 500 companies that fled NYC during the "Good old days"). NYC is still the world's corporate powerhouse, but it would have been so much more massive in influence if it wasn't for those "good old days".
Bronx used to be a middle-class neighborhood, but it turned into a complete warzone during the "good old days". I hope the Bronx is nuked.. It brings down the prestige and image of NYC... too many poor people spill into Manhattan because of the stupid subway. Ugh.

And I don't understand how you find walking through West Village "boring"?

Um, hello there are 6 Marc Jacobs boutiques, tons of cute storefronts, high end establishments/restaurants/lounges, beautiul people and stunning avant garde architecture sprouting up. What else could there possibly be to look at?

Strolling the Village is a very civilized experience nowadays.

the most interesting travel memories I have are from NY around 1980-85.I remember vividly the crazy free wheeling (at time dangerous, I got mugged once) end of the world atmosphere especially around 42nd street. The smell at Penn Station (no air con, lots of homeless). the completely empty Bowery with grass in the concrete.Living in Paris felt provincial.
Now everything is upscale and boring, pretentious and "design". loft buildings have doormen. upper east side is a museum of almost dead people.
But the truth is I may be nostalgic of my youth and of the US of those days. America is clearly becoming a police state and feels like it.
Mixed feelings. A decade of severe inflation may bring back similar end of the world scenarios like Argentina recently experienced.

Since I'm one of the agents of change, I can't contribute to this thread.

Aha! I KNEW you were an agent, nyc10023!

http://www.forgotten-ny.com/

WB, I don't miss the crime, but it was easier to have cultural experiences in those days because fewer people wanted to have them. There are a ton of examples, but let's take Shakespeare in the Park -- in the "bad old days" if you wanted to see a show, you took a day off from work, waited in line, and got tickets.

Now that's not possible. Get locked out of a couple of hot shows (say Hair, or Merchant of Venice with Pacino) and the response is likely to be to buy one's way out by becoming a subscriber to the Public Theater.

The result? Fewer Shakespeare in the Park tickets for the masses.

So much that's fun about NYC now requires subscriptions and planning and lines in a way that it didn't when fewer wealthy people lived here.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

"I am definitely against the Walmartification of NYC"

There are already Kmarts and Costcos in NYC, how is a Walmart going to make the city any different?

Actually, I'm sick and tired of having to pay twice the price of what people pay for the same stuff in the suburbs: I hope a Walmart opens across the street from me.

So how much are those Wallmart prices expected to increase in the U.S. now that inflation in China is "officialy" increasing at a 5% annualized rate?

If you're sick of paying twice the price, why don't you just go to the aforementioned Kmarts and Costcos in NYC?

How are a ton of Wallmarts in Manhattan any different than a ton of Costcos, RiteAids, A&P's,Duane Reed,Macy's,Bed Beth & Beyond, Lowes & Home Depot's

Labor practices.

Agree that discount stores, per se, are not the problem, especially since they aren't really what is driving out the cool, offbeat places. I think the bohemian places are a victim of high prices/rents...so you end up with a nauseating number of pseudo-glam boutiques like marc jacobs, which for me are a big yawn. But my clothes budget isn't what it should be, I guess.

Some of the bigger Jack's stores are amazing bargains.

Labor practices

Guess you don't shop on Canal Street.

only for seafood

"I miss the Soho of "After Hours" and the East Village of "Taxi Driver"..."

Watching "After Hours" in the mid-80s clinched my commitment to come here. I remember walking out of that movie with a friend and saying I had to move to NYC.

So yes, very nostalgic.

I also miss Tramps, the Bottom Line, the Knitting Factory, the Village Underground and Billy's Topless.

the elvis booth at exterminator chili.

I only moved here in '99, but the place I miss most is Brownies in the EV.
I miss the old Continental (technically, it's still there, but no longer has bands- just drunk college kids).
I miss the Northsix in W'burg.

(Isn't the Village Underground still around? I saw Monster Magnet there maybe 9 or 10 years ago, but it was never a regular joint for me.)

There are some things I miss, but New York has *always* been about change. There are new places popping up all over the place, and some stink, and some are great.

The places I miss were *also* new places at one time. Not to mention, some I'm glad are gone. Just because the location/name exists doesn't mean its still good.

I mean, CBGBs, come on. People whined about that for a while... with 99% clearly not having been there in decades. It sucked for quite some time. Would Max's Kansas City be cool if it was still sitting there? of course not. Would you rather have not had the rebuilding of Williamsburg, or are you really pretending you prefer the Bedford of the 80s. Should Chelsea have not been taken over by the gays and galleries, so we wouldn't have had that great neighborhood?

Sometimes the dated stuff has to go away to make room for the new. If you want permanent preservation... move to the Williamsburg in VA.

To me, most of the time I hear people complaining, they weren't really there.

True, somewhereelse.
That's why documentaries are produced. Books written.

Max's couldn't exist today. It was of its time: the past.

SWE good points.

But the one thing I miss regularly is the old outdoor 26th street fleamarket (pre ebay). Actual sunday morning antiquing in NYC! favorite moment -- noticing DeeLite scrounge for vintage fashion.

West34:

You were there! So was I. She picked up some interesting things there.

Groove is in the heart...

More than any place or location, what I miss most is a specific feeling the city seemed to encourage. It was a mixture of exhilaration, excitement, danger, magic, curiosity and beauty. It's true things change, but sometimes soul unfortunately gets traded for sterility.

avery: At least you have a great collection of concert ticket stubs!

Hahha yes, I guess I do. :)

I do remember the "flower district" fleamarkets. But there is the one in the indoor garage on 25th now... and the open air one behind gracious home. And a number of the good merchants moved indoors into the building on 25th called chelsea anqtique something (its basically 5 floors of booths).

All of which remind me that the old ones probably weren't as good as I remember either. ;-)

"It was a mixture of exhilaration, excitement, danger, magic, curiosity and beauty. "

Don't leave out fear... much of this city was afraid to walk out the door. How many good people did we lose...

"but sometimes soul unfortunately gets traded for sterility."

Or safety. I for one am happy we don't have 2k murders a year, and people are not afraid to take the subway.

If there were a prize for a great stub collection -- you would win it avery.

True dat, too swe.

If you can get a copy of Alphie McCourt's (youngest of the Frank McCourt family)
book: "A Long Stone's Throw" you would enjoy it.

He's a wonderful writer, stories of the city life in the 1970's.
He tells a good one about being on the subway back then. There was a shooting on the platform, and when the train he was on pulled into the station a few seconds after; the doors opened and people rushed into the subway car to escape.
Alphie thought it was a "wilding" in progress and prepared to defend himself with his umbrella.

He's been a good friend for years and he has lots of great stories.

That's nothing to the Happening in Central Park the night they landed on the moon in 1969. The city erected a huge screen in the Sheep Meadow and thousands of people came and partied into the night. I could go on... the dried chickpeas at Max's Kansas City, the Thalia movie theater on 91st where the seats slanted up, there were invariably subtitles, and the person in front of you invariably had an Afro. It was a big deal when Mandarin, then Szechuan cooking came to town, corresponding with some influx into Chinatown. Viet Namese came only after the war.

Lofty: Agree with that, althought that's nothing compared to the Diana Ross concert in Central Park. The first one that was rained-out.

Wilding ensued on C.P.W.

Remember, nostalgia heightens with age.

Think how the last decade will look in 20 years. Even just 9/11. Or the Highline.

Most things seem to get better with age... we forget the crap and remember the highlights.

Actually I'm not nostalgic. My apartment had cockroaches that came out and danced on the knobs when I turned on the oven. Dating is a drag. The WTC was ugly. We went from the delicious John Lindsay to the squat Abe Beame.

Lofty, yes dating is ugly, but you did marry and have kids, etc., all in NYC! despite the cockroaches.

swe, i don't disagree, but i'm just trying to step out of my own experience the last 10 or so years and look back and think how we're going to define this time. it doesn't seem very interesting to me, other than some emerging neighborhoods (maybe some more than others) and, yes, 9/11. how will NYC of the 2000's and forward be defined? what will it morph into? will the oughts be known for bottle service, something tokyo perfected decades ago?

the artists are f'ng moving to CLEVELAND. i'm sure the tales of their NYC demise are greatly exaggerated, but still. what self-respecting world-class city loses the artists to the midwest? and there's just a little piece of me that thinks this move may be for real. artists are smart, and they define trends. and they create vitality and take it with them when they leave. i don't know. i don't mind an ihop, or a walmart, but i sure do miss the home store that used to be in Gramercy. i can't even recall the name, but i bought every wedding, bridal shower, etc. gift there for almost a decade. i think it's now a nail salon.

forgive me but what is "bottle service"...

in nyc I think of people picking up bottles to turn them in..but i think that's not what u mean

Bottle service is when poor people spend ridiculously huge amounts of money to sit on their fat asses [can service] in banquettes in awful, corporate-operated zero-energy clubs and lounges, with the entire bottle of vodka or smoove sofisticitated cognac and little pitchers of high-fructose corn syrup mixed with juice. Two prostitutes stand nearby so somehow the poor people in the banquette think that other people think they scored, but they're really just pimped by the venue to stand around, bend over to rearrange the pitchers, and, well, that's about it. It's like Hooters with some sparkle.

In five years, those same patrons of the bottle service will indeed be rifling through the garbage for bottles and cans, no service.

Bottle service belongs in no-nightlife places like Vegas and Orange County ... and not, say, in New York, where it's done its part to destroy the nightworld.

Bottle service came to manhattan before Vegas...when Pure started, they advertised it as "New York-style...".

But I generally agree with the above post.

I ain't kidding alan, I don't really follow what you mean. I'm not into clubbing or any bar that people ever have to wait in line for. Are you talking about buying a bottle for your table?..if so, that's sort of common (as at least a possibility) in many countries, and has been for ages.

I moved here, to the East Village, 186 Norfolk street in 1982, rent; $250 a month split with 2 other roommates. I loved the NYC of the 80's but mostly I'm nostalgic for the youthful, innocent easy fun and adventure. I screen printed and sold punk and reggae shirts to all the downtown record stores and played in a punk band. I married Rip Torn and Geraldine Pages daughter, whom I met at the Mudd Club and was part of my circle of friends; just another New York story, it truly enriched my life. We had two beautiful children...raising them in Chelsea and the West Village was a blast!

It was truly a more interesting place to be, not for everyone...that's for certain.Now at 46 I enjoy other things, but that time in NYC was special to me. I know my father said the same thing about NYC in the 50's and my Grandfather, who just passed away at the age of 99 never tired of telling me what a wonderful place it was in the 30's and 40's. As Einstein liked to say, "it's all relative" I guess.

Keith -- I feel like a piker posting after you, but I miss Hell's Kitchen from the 80s when it was post-Westie's but pre-invasion of slumming wannabes. If you could dodge the crack vials and hookers, it was a cool place.

from you.

the ultimate wannabe.

Troll.

that must give you a real chuckle.

KeithB:
I always like your comments.

The Mudd Club. We may have met back then. Toni Brown, art director of High Times Magazine, and that circle.

You must know Roy. What a great character!
His stage-act was really out there, and ever since Anita befriended him, he's been living up at Keef's place, now in Conn.

I miss lizyank. Everything that was great about pre-inonada NY, she'd tell us. The ultimate effortless cool, no pretention, no trying.

inonada: Sorry to hear about your mourning.
KeithB and I are just two people who are posting comments, and find that we have something in common.

We aren't trying to be cool. We aren't trying to impress anybody.
We have our own version of cool things, people and places that we consider to be our fond memories.

Maybe Lizyank has a Facebook page where you can contact her.

Truth, I wasn't commenting on that. Keith I know (through SE), have nothing but good things to say. You I know much less (more recent poster), not to say anything bad.

Everything I know about old NY, I learned from lizyank (OK, maybe not _everything_), but she no longer posts here. That's the extent of my nostalgia for old NY, which is my response to the OP: nostalgia for stories told by the person who no longer posts. I didn't live it, so that's all I've got. What a loser, right?

FYI, I think you'd like her posts: search Google for the one about growing up across from the gay bar in the Village, and whether her parents minded. Just gave an impression of effortless cool.

inonada: Oh, I know who Lizyank is.

She is a good person, whose only fault is that she is part of a team of commenters here on SE, who are very manipulative.
I have liked her posts in the past and she is still on SE; although she posted a comment in the summer stating how SE wasn't up to her standards and she was leaving SE. (Actually, the plan she stated, was to start an RE blog with some of the other complainers.) In any case: she still logs on to read the SE threads, so you can start a discussion directed to her.

You aren't a loser,inonada.
I have liked your comments posted in the past, and I'm just happy to hear that you have no complaints about me and Keith.

Hey give him some free dinner and a walk through of your place.

I think the 2nd glass of Pinot may have made me a little extra nostalgic (:

Truth thanks for the nice words, but integrity is built by constructive criticism as long as one is open to learn from it; not just react to it.

I always wanted to have a coffee with Liz....

fillmore east, max's, academy of music, mudd, nursery, 54, xenon, aria, mars, danceteria

and now ....bottle service

you guys were all so downtown! I miss the Surf Club, the Living Room on 79th and Lex, and that fun little glass fronted place on west side of third ave around 82nd where they would push all the tables aside around midnight and you would always find yourself drunkly making out with someone you just met while "dancing"

While it's true that there's much to miss about the old NY, I think there's way too much focus on what's "wrong" with today's version - yeah, the bottle service and sterile retail spaces can be obnoxious and saddening, but there's also a lot to like - the constant opening of independent stores (whether physical or online), the burgeoning tech/startup scene, the constantly evolving music scene. I think a lot of the DIY spirit is still present. I may be a bit more exposed to this than some since I live in Brooklyn, where a lot of this is happening, but I still really believe in this city, its ability to change on the fly, and still be among the most culturally relevant cities on the planet.

^^^Bottle service you could get when my parents were in there 20s. What has happened now is many more places offer it than before.

I haven't really done the math, but I gather in other places and times, bottle service was an economical way to enjoy yourself and not bother the bartender, assuming you would otherwise drink that much. Today, it seems to be way more expensive than just ordering a really lot of $15 drinks.

I almost stole the bottle service menu from a club several years ago, and I wish I had. The prices were absurd.

Yeah, Bottle service has been around for a while. I remember having it at UB in the early 90s.

But there is a relevant change. The "good" clubs started doing it (thanks Noah Tepperberg), starting with the meatpacking and 27th street scenes. Basically, it turned into a fee to get losers in. A bunch of 20 year old ibanking analysts would have been left outside in the cold 10 years ago. Now, if they take the minimum number of bottles, they essentially pay a fee for access to places they wouldn't get into for a few more months (when the cool folk moved on).

So it changed the guy mix a lot, which changed the girl mix a lot.

Its also not hugely different than, say, Yankee Stadium, where seniority got you good seats. With the new stadium, if you pay enough, you can have what only time got you before.

Exactly, and exactly.

Jason and Noah get most of the of the credit for bottle service but it was really Andrew Sasson, their mentor. Particularly at Jet East and later Conscious Point in the Hamptons.
Bottle service was essential in the 90s and it helped pay the tab for the 10% of the crowd hardcore socialites and club kids(and adults) paying for nothing.
By 2000 though it was cheaper to buy a bottle than stand too long by a bar and buying everyone drinks.

I am definitely nostalgic for the 90s hamptons, best time I ever had.

KeithB: Yes, Mudd Club was a place where there was lots of constructive criticism.It was a good mix of artists, writers, musicians. Everybody had an opinion of somebody else's work.
Roy certainly learned from it and also reacted to it. His stage act kept getting more out there.
He recited poems,he did some kind of wacky strip-tease.
Mudd Club was the only place that you could see something like that on a regular basis.

You could still have a coffee with Liz, and it wouldn't change my opinion of you.

truthskr: 90's Hamptons was a good club time.
By 2000, if you wanted to buy somebody a drink the rest of the bar-standers expected to have one on you too.It was more economical to buy a bottle.