Top Ten Tips For Buying A Co-op in Manhattan

Christine, is price negotiaton allowed, or is that déclassé, like "bring[ing] your Starbucks latte or Diet Coke"?

Christine -- Top One tip for being a successful broker. Don't post obnoxious tripe like this.

MidtownerVirgin, have you been a successful broker to be in a position to give tips on being a successful broker?

Those top ten tips may well be the most barf-inducing thing I have ever seen on a streeteasy (yes, even more than the hysteria-infected musings of dvadset-tri) . I'd be convinced this was a parody but the website looked legit. A pedicure? first impression? no whatever drinks..? These are all reasons to run from a coop.

The original draft specified a lobotomy, but very careful and precise editing by the author changed it to pedicure.

lobotomy to buy a co-op, interesting. alan, where are you living these days?

"the psychic benefits of owning one’s home are inestimable" - so that's what leaking ceilings, increasing taxes, assessments and bloated maintenance fees, onerous house rules, over reaching coop boards are- "psychic benefits. I'll take a colonic irrigation instead.

seroius question: wouldn't you think someone at that firm would realize how absurd this list was before they uploaded it? are they that out of it.....

hfscomm1

huntersburg
8 minutes ago
ignore this person
report abuse

Serious question - where exactly is Fort George?

serious question: when will hfscomm1 finally be driven off of here?

You are going apoplectic columbiacounty. Did you just open your brokerage statement?

hfscomm1

Are you doing a séance or something?

No way I'm taking off my d*mn shoes. If you want a sale, don't force prospective buyers to cater to your OCD-fueled whims.

Thank you Cristine for your Top Ten Reasons to Not Buy a coop.......

Maybe we ought to debate, for those of us who aren't daughters of diplomats who go to top schools like Brooklyn Law School, will there be a softening of - I don't want to say "standards" - but softening of perhaps Christine's protocols in good but not the ultra top co-ops?

I personally think this is great advice. I would only add to make sure to change into fresh undies, and brush those teeth everybody!

Now lets go and get us that dreamy coop! Ooops, I forgot. A nice thank you card to the listing broker will go a long way to raising your standing in the competition. Remember, this is not about you.

This is easily the most condescending article I have ever read. I would never presume to tell my clients how to act. Wow. It does not reflect well on Warburg Realty, and reflects very poorly on the poster. Worst. PR. Ever.

TOP TEN TIPS FOR SELLING A CO-OP IN MANHATTAN

Last month Warburg Realty President Frederick Peters wrote two equally condescending pieces on New York co-ops. I thought I might add to the conversation with some tips to think about as you embark on the search for the buyer of your dreams.

1. Sell to only one buyer. While it may seem at times that every other person one meets in the city is a real estate buyer, the truth of the matter is, the community of the better Manhattan buyers is actually quite small.

2. Make a good first impression.You should treat your viewing appointment like an interview. However gracious and lovely the buyer is, make no mistake, he or she is observing you, what you wear, your manners and reporting back.

3.Admit you like the money. There’s a widely-held belief that one should never appear to like the money because somehow if the buyers know you want it, they will make you will work for it.

4.Be discreet. Do not talk about the buyer until you get outside the building and are out of earshot of the buyer.

5. Be nice to the buyer and their friends. Buyers will frequently speak to friends and neighbors about prospective brokers, particularly if their impression is a negative one.

6.Be prepared. I make every effort to have my brokers have all their ducks in a row before we submit an offer.

7. Take the board package seriously. You need to treat the board package with the same level of seriousness as you would your child’s preschool application.

8.Google yourself. You can be certain the buyer will, as will the seller.

9. Get a pedicure. You laugh but you will be surprised by the number of times you will be asked to take off your shoes before selling apartments and you don’t want to be taken off guard.

10. Don’t be presumptuous. I always tell my brokers to tell as few people as possible about my bank account.

Like most worth things worth doing, selling a co-op in Manhattan takes some effort. It’s your broker’s job to guide you through the process and make it as painless as possible by selling you a CONDO.

You guys are harsh today! I'm not a Warburg broker, but this didn't strike me as a particularly offensive list.

In fact, I quite liked point #8 -- to be aware of one's Google and Facebook presence -- we have indeed seen deals crash over information co-op boards found on Facebook.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

I'm glad to finally hear from you. I called and emailed you like 5 times in 2009 as I was interested to see your 119 east 84 listings.I never heard back from you.

your fault. you didn't bow and scrape appropriately. and apparently you still haven't learned your lesson.

yeah.I didn't have a pedicure in 2009. too busy. but how in the world did she know that from my voicemail?
could've been the fungus on my voice.

Speaking of Facebook, lets have look...

Christine Miller Martin
My blog made Streeteasy.com's Bubblewrap column - So psyched!
Tuesday at 6:24pm
7 people like this.
Susan Burke O'Neal That's fantastic, Christine. Congrats!
Tuesday at 8:43pm
Michael Paul Falcone Good for you!!
Tuesday at 8:48pm

Sorry, but I'm afraid the crap put out by Christine's boss is even more barf-inducing than her own brand of crap. She has much to aspire to and a long way to go before she achieves at the level of a Warburg President. I am pasting in below Mr. Peter's supercilious load of crap in its entirety. I know that once you read it, you will understand why you are inadequate to be a cooperator with robber barons or the heirs of robber barons:

Why Co-ops Work
Posted on January 18th, 2011 by Frederick Peters, President

Why do so many New Yorkers live in co-ops? I live in one myself. Are co-ops small minded, snobbish and a huge pain in the neck to get into? Well, no, not really … Sometimes they can be difficult and seemingly arbitrary in their rules and rulings. But there are enormous advantages to the co-op system. Here are a few of them:

* There is a real sense of shared purpose. Co-ops have always been, and have increasingly become, vertical villages. They are like a small home town. Most have basement amenities such as gyms and playrooms where residents meet, and many throw several annual parties where the residents can mingle. They create a small town feeling in the big city.

* Co-ops are self-governing democracies, observant of the wishes of the residents. And most Boards have term limits, which guarantees that new blood and new ideas make their way into the governance structure. Everyone cares about where they live. And Board service is fun and interesting. I spent many years on the Board of our building on Central Park West, several of them as President. I learned an enormous amount about the running of this little enterprise which has made me both a better neighbor and a better broker.

* Co-ops have a high level of financial solvency. They scrutinize the financial statements of prospective purchasers carefully and tend to discourage excessive borrowing among their constituents. This led to minimal defaults in co-op buildings over the last couple of years where throughout the rest of the country mortgages were being foreclosed right and left.

* Since co-ops tend to have strict rental and residency requirements, your neighbors will actually live in the building with you. You will never have that feeling which can afflict condominium owners in which you feel like you are the only owner who really lives in the building. You know you are surrounded by people who care about the good health and reputation of the building as much as you do.

* New York’s historic apartment stock is mostly co-ops. If you long to live in an old building with high ceilings, large square rooms, and plaster walls – or if you only want an address on Park, Fifth, or Central Park West, chances are you will end up in a co-op.

* While Co-op Board Admissions Committees do sometimes make decisions I disagree with, they are most often both reasonable and perspicacious. They want to safeguard both the financial security and neighborly feeling of their communities. And residents are mostly appreciative of the work their Board members, who are all volunteers, do on behalf of the building. In the end, the Board application process is not a high price pay for the pleasure of the well run community into which you integrate yourself as a co-op resident.

Next week I will write about preparing a Board package and lay out clearly the steps which can be taken to simplify and demythologize the process.

ali -- how can you not see it is condescending, and presumptuous in the extreme: get a pedicure !!!...don't have a coffee with you !!...don't be presumptuous!!...treat it like a child's college application!!....

condescending is the best word.

I've never had a pedicure. That's why I'm only looking at condos.

Apparently, she isn't too aware of how privacy settings work on facebook. An effusive colleague of hers "liked" her top ten list, and, that not being enough, wrote "this is great" on her wall. His wall is not public.

Best is #5, in that not only are the doormen responsible for physical security, they are also indoctrinated by the board to be responsible for upholding the co-ops buyers' standards. So be nice to the selling broker, as well as the staff - as Spinnaker says, this isn't about you, i.e. the buyer is the least important part of the equation.

Second best is #2 (towards the end), where even if another one of the brokers' listings is a complete dog, that shouldn't reflect badly on the broker.

Lots of sound and fury on this thread. It's a broker's blog entry - get over it.

bjw, why? it may be a broker's blog entry, but it was posted here, presumably there was an awareness that the posting might elicit opinions and comments.

bjw, I find most broker-bashing on here to be too predictable but this blog was over-the-top -- really captures why I personally don't want to have anything to do with a coop or be at the mercy of the perceptions of some agent or would-be snob in the lobby (and I know not all coop boards are awful, but I've heard too many horror stories, and also just don't like the additional hassle factor).

You can learn so much on Streeteasy - now I know that coop boards are "perspicacious"
—Synonyms 1. perceptive, acute, shrewd, penetrating. Antonyms 1. dull, stupid. Funny, I would have guessed on the latter. Anyway, I am now looking forward to our next word lesson - "demythologize" - as in demythologize the Board package.

AR is right BJ, there was a gloat factor to her Facebook entry and to her starting this thread. We are the people and the people have little tolerance for this BS -especially here. Furthermore, she really ought to heed some of her own advice, as this commentary is now likely to follow her forever.

@ABOUTREADY: I don't think this girl had any awareness of anything, she has no idea of how others perceive her or her "writing", or she wouldn't have posted this naive pile of bull here. She will read all these posts and dismiss them, because her mommy told her everyone is just jealous. They're not jealous, Christine, they're honest.

This whole thing falls under "I remember when I had my first beer".

This is how the facebook should have read:

Christine Miller Martin
My blog was completely trashed on Streeteasy.com's Talk forum - So embarrassed at my own stupidity
Tuesday at 6:24pm
Christine defriended by everyone.

As for her boss's condescending clap trap, this line chills me:

"In the end, the Board application process is not a high price pay for the pleasure of the well run community into which you integrate yourself as a co-op resident."

Sounds like it should read "The board application process is a small price to pay for the lobotomizing effect of joining a pretentious group of sycophants who want to pay money to become part of the collective hive. Independence is futile."

I think these Warburg columns have done more to scare people AWAY from co-ops than anything I have ever read.

ar, I guess I just don't care enough to make a big deal about it. I mean, "if a broker writes a blog entry" sounds a lot like "if a tree falls in the woods..." to me.

It should also be noted that StreetEasy seems to have removed the OP.

And now it's back - weird glitch.

but bj...isn't a discussion board supposed to be a place that people discuss what interests them and skip over that which does not?

why do you always feel the need to be the hall monitor?

cc, I offered an opinion, not unlike what you guys are doing. I don't necessarily agree with you - no need to bring out that tired tripe. I think it's fair for me to ask why this angers people so much.

This makes me ponder if any broker has approached the SE jedi masters to kill a thread that turned against them.

bjw, actually you told people to get over it. if you aren't interested, feel free to express your disinterest. but clearly others are.

spin, there was an article in which SE admitted to removing things on the boards at the requests of brokers.

CC -- Because SE is about what BJ wants to discuss, nothing else, and in the manner in which BJ wants to discuss it.

MidtownerEast, damn straight. Now, can you explain why this blog entry perturbed you so much? Also, please let me know when we're done playing High and Mighty.

now...that is downright hilarious.

is this another one of your attempts to be ironic?

cc, http://notironic.com/

Are you asking me why the blog entry bothered me? Pretty self-evident.

and yes SE has brilliantly deleted the first post with the link but left the string up. as well as the bubblegum featurette on the home page.

Well that doesn't seem very sporty AR. If they are willing to kill unflattering comments I trust they are at the very least charging a fee. I wonder what Christine might be willing to pay?

Actually, it was a sublime peice of parody. Unfortunately, not intentionally so.

MidtownerEast, it bothers you because you find it obnoxious?

oh the hell with christine. why don't we talk about what bothers us about you?

If SE has removed the original link, what happens if I do this?

http://www.warburgrealty.com/blog/?p=620

This is a Geronimo move, if I'm thrown off the island (forum), it was nice discussing with you guys!

having never done a board package, do they usually ask for feet photos? other extremities?

In all fairness, some readers may find that article useful but not expressing themselves. What is seen here is a self selected process. Those who disagreed had a stronger urge to write and express themselves. That doesn't automatically make them the majority or deem the article a complete trash.

In fact, the advice of not to be afraid to praise a place if you really like it is pretty good. It may apply to homes other than a coops. I had sold properties before and I might have preferences on those who praised my properties and gave them better bargains than others.

cc, go nuts. I do enjoy that you claim to speak for "us." Unless you're posting under various aliases. But you'd never do that.

BJ -- It is clearly obnoxious and needs to be called out as so. But the difference is that you want to squelch debate/comments if they are not what you are interested in. That kind of censorship is not what a discussion board is all about. If you find it tiresome, read something else.

needsadvice, bold move. i was very tempted myself.

MidtownerEast, sorry if you construed my comment as wanting to censor/squelch debate - definitely not my goal. All I was reading was how obnoxious and stupid the blog entry was. I'm more than fine discussing what was written or co-op advice in general, but would you really qualify this as "discussion"? Maybe I shouldn't worry, but I am genuinely mystified/intrigued when/why people respond this way to something I deem pretty insignificant. If it's really that obnoxious and stupid, why even bother?

Isn't there another real estate blog out there where if you are a paid advertiser you are free of criticism on that blog as well as competing blogs?

MidtownerVirginEast, you and Wbottom seem to like to attack bjw similarly, why? (I mean whyt so similarly?)

because stupidity can be funny, and it can make people angry when it is coming from a "professional" and is condescending to boot. many of us also have encountered things that make this piece touch a nerve (the ridiculous taking off of the shoes, the being made to feel like a supplicant for even looking at a coop, the pretension of certain brokers who seem to only have the time of day for buyers in heals and pearls, the sensation that the broker expects you to be fawning which is hard to describe but i've felt it many a time).

did you look at coops before you bought your condo, bjw?

MidtownerVirgin, does it have something to do with the Tenant's Rights thread?

ar, fair enough. I just don't roll that way, but different strokes and all that. I did look pretty much exclusively at coops before looking at condos. I can't say I recall ever being asked to remove my shoes, but I don't think I'd be all that furious about it either. And in general, when a broker is blatantly condescending, I will speak up. It usually shuts them up pretty quick. I get the impression some get really steamed about it and vent on the internet. That can't be all that cathartic, can it?

bjw, i have zero interest in discussing $1,100 faucets. none. i would never even consider buying one, regardless of income. but if someone wants to discuss the various high-end bathroom fixtures that are out there, they should feel free to do so, i'll just move on to something that interests me more.

Quite a bit of hypocrisy on this thread.

I am interested in this thread because it was started by a RE agent that totally ignored my calls/emails for her listings at 119 east 84 (7C and 8C, zoned for ps6 and of interest to me in summer 2009).I am puzzled of why she never contacted me regarding her listings, as one of them has been sitting on the market for like 500 days. Meanwhile, we found something else and moved on but I remembered her when I saw the post this morning.

bjw -- I haven't participated in a broker-bash on SE before, but this posting was over the top. The broker knew exactly what she was doing when she posted it. She saw posting on SE as a way to get some media attention as well as perhaps some new clients and positive strokes from her boss. The woman is an overachieving alum of Sacred Heart and Wellesley, former editor of the law review at Brooklyn Law (hmm, family connections couldn't get her into Harvard or Yale?) and then worked in the law dept at HBO (has been known in the past as a dumping ground for newbie attorneys with class-conscious connections) before moving on to conquer the RE world in Manhattan.

You say you don't understand why people got their backs up about this post.. I don't like being addressed by a pretentious young'un on how to dress, act and speak so that she will condescend to show me an apartment. Brokers are salespeople, just like the salespeople at Bergdorf's except that the ladies who sell clothing at Bergdorf's may be, on the whole, more ethical than RE brokers. Warburg is notorious anyway for its elitist attitudes and clients, so it looks as though she's found her level.

What I find more troubling is that the original post is gone. I will follow NeedsAdvice and post the link to remedy that problem. http://www.warburgrealty.com/blog/?p=620

oops, "WHO totally ignored..."

Wait--there are 'psychic benefits' to owning in a co-op? Sign me up!

general, I hear you. But do you speak up when a broker is condescending? As buyers, I think the more we do that, the less likely we are to encounter that kind of malarkey.

why should anyone have to say excuse me i think you're being rude to someone who is there to sell you something? i'm not their f'ng mother, i'm a potential buyer. i just move on, but it still leaves a bad taste.

Call me old school, but if someone's rude and you just sit there are take it, and it leaves a bad taste in your mouth, then putting them in their place can go a long way towards removing that bad taste. I guess I should excuse myself from this thread, since I'm clearly in the minority.

well, you certainly have your right to your opinions, bjw, but i've found that attempting to change the perspective/behavior of adults is pretty much an exercise in futility. it's nearly impossible to change a loved one, the likelihood that my admonition will result in any real introspection on the part of someone who doesn't know me in the slightest doesn't encourage me to engage in the unpleasant task of calling someone out. they'll just convince themselves that i never would have purchased the apartment anyway/wasn't an appropriate candidate/had a chip on my shoulder/any one of any other self-affirming justifications for their world view.

Top Ten Tips:

http://tinyurl.com/4s36d3r

("Innocence!")

Oh, look, I'm still here . . .

"general, I hear you. But do you speak up when a broker is condescending? As buyers, I think the more we do that, the less likely we are to encounter that kind of malarkey."

@BJW: We ARE speaking up. With this thread.

ar, that sounds defeatist to me, but I'll admit to being an eternal optimist. It's an affliction, what you can I do?

needsadvice, again, I'm old school, and this is just my opinion, but speaking up in person beats the pants off anonymous internet message board diatribes. Especially when it seems the OP broker has not returned.

*what can I do*

"What you can I do" sounds dirty - my apologies, ar.

bj, keep it simple...just admit to being the dope that you are...now it's you against the world...again...so unfair

Right on cue, the king/queen of run-ins.

"Especially when it seems the OP broker has not returned."

@BJW: oh, believe me, she is all over this thread like white on rice. She doesn't want to look, but it's like driving by a car accident: she doesn't want to look, but she is compelled to.

Every other broker in town is reading this as well. Professional gossip, is there anything more interesting? They are enjoying this tremendously. You know, because all those brokers are so "close-knit".

Confused by the list - is this for the broker or buyer? Pronoun usage.

bjw2103
i agree with you, there is nothing terribly offensive on that list. interestingly, the point most worthy of wrath on this thread seems to be #2, which is...i don't know, respectable adult conduct 101?

"Make a good first impression. You should treat your viewing appointment like an interview. However gracious and lovely the listing broker is, make no mistake, he or she is observing you, what you wear, your manners and reporting back to the seller."

no kidding. extraordinary!

"Listing brokers often root for certain prospective buyers they like and the more they like you — and your broker — the better your chances."

yes, human qualities often play a role in human interaction

"Arrive on time. Don’t wear athletic clothing, don’t bring your Starbucks latte or Diet Coke, don’t show up on the phone and make everyone a hostage to your phone call in the lobby and, if humanly possible, try not to take a call during the showing and, if you do, be apologetic and make it short."

ok, anyone who has a problem with anything on that list is just a rude slob.

"And remember it’s not only the broker you’re trying to impress. That person in the lobby or in the elevator for all you know is on the board."

again, common sense. although, to reword for this crowd, don't remove your phony "civilized" face until at least 1 full block from the building.

Finally, even if the apartment is an absolute hideosity, don’t walk in, take two steps, say “No” and just turn around. Find something nice to comment on and just say something to the effect of “I’m afraid it just doesn’t work for us.”

yes, but mom should have tought you that. assuming there was a mom involved and not a pack of wolves in a barn.

"You never know, that same broker’s next listing may be for the apartment you do bid on and you want her to remember you favorably. "

no way! you mean, i can make contacts that may benefit me in the future just by, like, being polite and NORMAL???? well, that is certainly repugnant.

and go get those feet taken care of!! nasty

10023, the actual list in on the warburg site, linked by needsadvice.

http://www.warburgrealty.com/blog/?p=620

Thanks. Her advice makes sense only for parvenus who are trying to buy into a fancy co-op.

Good afternoon StreetEasy,

How much do you charge for shit canning a post that doesn't violate your rules of conduct? I know, I know... the hand that feeds you and all that, but this was so swift and obvious as to pique my interest. What about the poor 10/mth subs out there who may fall prey to pedicurally prejudiced brokerages? Lets hear it. What about US?!!!

Thanks for making me look stupid once again 23. I'm not embarrassed to say I had to Google parvenus.

Actually SE, can you please remove my last comment. It was out of character. You have my credit card number, just make it out as Food Emporium so my wife doesn't find out. thx.

nyc10023
8 minutes ago
ignore this person
report abuse Thanks. Her advice makes sense only for parvenus who are trying to buy into a fancy co-op.

i don't know. make a good first impression. be discreet. be nice. be prepared. take important things seriously. don't be unkempt and disgusting. be self aware. don't be presumptuous. seems like good life advice.

thank you, Christine Miller Martin.

Wtushy, that was your sole value add to this thread, a criticism of bjw?

By the way, did you catch on the Tenant's Rights thread how MidtownerVirginEast came to your defense, and you weren't even mentioned before that, let alone criticized.

Maybe you two can meet up and discuss. You might have other things in common.

But we're not talking about "life advice" - this is about how to behave or not to behave when you want to buy an apt. Under current condition, her advice doesn't apply for most properties. Money talks. You make the best offer, you get the apartment. It's that simple.

Spinnaker, funny - the Food Emporium comment particularly.

nyc10023
5 minutes ago
ignore this person
report abuse But we're not talking about "life advice" - this is about how to behave or not to behave when you want to buy an apt. Under current condition, her advice doesn't apply for most properties. Money talks. You make the best offer, you get the apartment. It's that simple.

alright alright, no one has to actually LIVE by the most basic standards of polite society, they can just fake it until they fool the board, and then release their true selves from the dark damp cellar. but doesn't that make brokers like Christine Miller Martin and the work they do that much more indespensible? i mean, to actually attempt to improve these losers, however briefly, and elevate them to civility! GOD'S WORK, Christine Miller Martin. bless you.

spin, only a parvenu would shop at Food Emporium. The wife would catch on right quick, I reckon.

#11 Whatever you do, do not at any point in the coop-acquisition process discuss money or anything related to it. Gauche.

Ah, Lucille. Haven't thought of you in ages... one of my favorite TV characters EVER. And your posts are right in character, too. It sounds as though you've been lunching with Christine Miller/Martin today. If so, please remind her that I don't need those kinds of lessons from a real estate broker. Since you obviously don't get it, that's exactly what is so obnoxious about her top ten list.

So I have to stop obsessing about Christine Miller Martin and get back to work, just as soon as I post this fabulous link:

http://www.hauteliving.com/2010/01/christine-miller-martins-black-tie-40th-birthday-party/

This is the world Christine comes from, a world of privilege in which one becomes accustomed to paying for having one's mistakes taken off websites and swept under rugs. Sometimes, when I am seduced by the kind of floor plans described by Mr. F. Peters ("high ceilings, large square rooms, and plaster walls") I must stop and remind myself that these people come with the floor plans and I would rather shoot myself in the foot (unpedicured? I'll never tell) than live with them.

ew, you think about me? ok, i'll go away again. bye bye.

generalogoun, I'm confused. If the party was held at the Burden place, why was the posed photo taken at Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas, NV?

@GENERALOGOUN: Thanks for the link. Wow. I read the text and looked at the pics, and the ONE thing that REALLY jumps out at me:

That dress makes her look fat.

Seriously, doesn't it?

Guessing ex-husband is ex because he wouldn't take his shoes off.

What a repressed and olde riche lifestyle. It's like 1850 in that world. Amazing . . .

It's really kind of sad. I suspect with the shallow, back-stabbing frenemies that she has, the link to this thread has been emailed all over the Upper East Side.

I actually feel sorry for her now, so I'll stop . . .

NOW I see what all the 6% commissions paid for - the big mirror and all those black ties!