Not closing on condo at DISTRICT

I am also walking away. I am concerned about two things,
1. will they have enough money to finish the construction and
2. who will pay the common charges on the unsold units. If Sponsor goes bust, the remaining owners must pick up the slack.
I am also concerned about the prices.
I have a friend at another Leviev building 15 Broad and they never completed the Theater room and other amenities, and that building sold out. Plus, 20 Pine is also in trouble - many unsold units and resellers competing for buyers with the Sponsors. I fear the District will not be financially sound, esp. since it sounds like a lot of buyers may walk. The latest I heard is 75% in contract, but that will likely fall. I will likely try to delay my closing until all the amenities are done A friend of mine suggested informing the NY Attorney General about the financial condition of the developer (that article would be good), misrepresentations about sales activity and the incomplete construction and see if they will step in. He also said it was a long shot, but worth trying.
Hope this helps.

We bid on the District but our offer was not accepted(9% off asking). They were offering to pick up our closing costs. We bid on a "sponsor" unit that had not been available last December when we were first looking. So they are already trying to flip those apartments. We were also concerned that the common charges would increase after closing due to all the amenities. It wasn't until a few weeks later that we read on StreetEasy about the financial problems with the developers.

I am also under contract for 1 Bedroom in District and will be walking away as well. Hence, the developer is on the verge of becoming bankrupt. I really don't want to sit in the unit where the building is half vacant where C.C expected to hike dramatically.

was there anything in the offering plan allowing you to get your deposit back if they didnt get the tco within 1 year of the estimate 1st yr operating budget?

The operating plan of the District condo starts April 2009 and they just got the TCO. So no way out on that front, but thanks for the thought.
Best bet is to cap the loss at 10%. If the place goes into bankruptcy, I would not want to be an owner. I have heard that after a foreclosure, the banks will reach out to people like me who walked away from a deposit and try to make a deal. Only time will tell.

The question is if the developer is actually on the verge of going bankrupt, isn't that enough of a legal reason to warrant getting your deposit back? Should you be forced to complete a transaction in an unstable building? If the developer is not keeping his promise to deliver the building he promised by contract, why should you be liable to complete the transaction? Weren't you mislead? Any lawyers out there who could comment on this?

Just saw this new District listing and it is not by JC Deniro:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/366531-condo-60-ann-street-fultonseaport-new-york

Does anyone know if this is a resale (I heard closings have begun) or the Sponsors selling a held back unit?

I got my default notice last week. Any others out there in contract at the District here anything? It looks like 18 sales have closed. Are the amenities completed? Anybody else walking away?

george,

i just moved into the building. from what i understand, 30 units have been moved into. all of the amenities are complete and look great. you should come down to the building and check for yourself

Rufus are you serious? Did you seriously just make that comment? "Poor people"="riff-raff"?? I am shocked and disturbed by this snobbery. Firstly, if you were educated on nyc real estate you would know that buildings which apply for tax abatements, which are most new buildings and in the financial district conversions as well, are generally required to set aside a certain number of units for low income earners. So the building will not be "full" of them, this is a minority of units, secondly low income does not = riff raff. Because someone may make less money than you does not mean that they are beneath you, nor that they are criminal, amoral or anything else suggested by your demeaning tone and word choice.

This guy rufus and the other guy stevejx are just racists and just nasty people. I'm disappointed that that attitude exists and that people here tolerate it. Unbelievable

stevejhx is not a racist. He has never written a single racist comment.

Maybe you should read what he said more carefully. Apologists are just as bad as the real thing.

I 2nd that... VV? r u friends with exit2?

?

Look at this thread -" w67thstreet... .gonna hit some balls in edgewater" look at what I started :) There's your racist...

nycbroker... lighten up... I usually use "riff-raff" to mean anyone who's got $1 less than me or put economic relativity into a discusision...

compared to a Corocoran broker, a Manhattan Connection broker is riff-raff.... you want a racist... chk out exit2... like that Seinfeld episode... "you want that (racist), well there he (exit2) is"

Huh? What are you talking about?

George_K, you are a fool for not closing. You have to look at the purchase as a long term investment. Guaranteed you just lost $100K + and unless you are wealthy and can afford that kind of a loss, then that's tough to recover from. And if you are wealthy, then the temporary decrease in value should not mean anything.

The lobby in DISTRICT is amazing. Very hip. I guarantee you 4 years from now, you regret your decision.

VideoVault, there are so many psychopaths on this website, and tons of haters. Stevejhx is the biggest one out there. He is a miserable human being and his goal in life is to make everyone else as miserable as he is. Any tidbit of negative news and he feels compelled to post it on here. He is beyond any help. Best way to deal with him is to ignore him. Your SE experience will be so much better.

I would of never done that because now is the time to buy. Buy now or be priced out forever. Catch that falling knife for sale.

kingdeka - you do have to look at a purchase as a long term investment, if you can stay in for the long term, layoffs, pay cuts, lots going on out there that make staying in for the long term MUCH more questionable today. that $100k loss can be a lot larger a year from now when you throw in closings costs etc if one can not continue to carry the apt as they had expected to 15 months ago when they signed their contract. people are walking away a lot in the city right now, the brompton folks are supposedly gearing up for it as their buyers havent even gotten appraisals done yet - ouch, those cant be at the levels people signed for 18 monhts ago

mutombonyc=bottomboynyc on manhunt.net

uesguy, i don't know George_K's financial situation, so I was just putting in my two cents worth for the limited info he supplied, if it is true at all. this is an anony website, so lies are more frequently encountered than the truth.

but he stated he was just walking away and didn't cite job hardships, etc. seemed to me he was just more concerned with the temporary depreciation in value of his purchase. that is not acceptable to me. he should have at least tried to renegotiate with the developers or maybe tried to get a more affordable condo in the building first before walking away. He did what so many people in Florida, Nevada, Arizona do. Just walk away and let the bank foreclose. Not even try to negotiate or weigh other options first.

But if he had recent unexpected unemployment, etc, that could be different. Just as quickly as prices rose, they can fall, and they will rise again.

itch3 you unscrammbled those letters your are sick with it. although, my s/n don't have 2 Y's.

mitch2=itch4 on manhunt.net

nycbrokerdax, I don't hate poor people. But unlike the liberals on this board, I do not think that luxury apartments in Manhattan are a God given right. These 80/20 programs are hurting the rest of us by limiting the supply of market rate apartments, thereby raising the rent on those.

I appreciate your attempt at pontificating about social policy. But please go back and study some basic economics. I highly recommend the paper by Edward Glaesar, and economist at Harvard, on this topic.

I don't think I am a fool for not closing. I would have paid $1,000 per s.f. with no view. It was all I could afford. Then I heard about 20 Pine, which is a much classier building, lower maintenance. I can buy there for $700 per s.f. I am also concerned that others will also walk away from their deposits at District, leaving it a Zombie Condo. I may have lost 10% on the District but can buy an apt at 30% less at a better building with higher occupancy. You see what happens when District apts go on the market for resale. They will go for much less than 20 Pine.
I still have some funds available so I am watching and waiting before I look to buy again, but I believe it will be at lower prices than today.

maraman,

you are certainly not a fool at all. you are the only one who knows of your financial well being. however, to compare 20 Pine to District is apples to oranges. there is a reason that building hasnt sold well from the beginning. same with district, there is a reason the building sold well from the beginning. investors/home owner demand plain and simple. if you can buy an lux apt. for 30% right now or in the future good luck and congrats. do us a favor and post it on this site as a homebuyer who walked away from their deposit in 2008 only to make out financially at a future time.

i make a living with a contrarian mindset and all this negative talk of what will happen to nyc RE is certainly encouraging. in most mkts when people are panicky great buying opportunities exist.

Rufus, it is pretty clear from your original post exactly what you thought. I was not making a comment about whether or not I agree with the 80/20 laws, or whether or not I think they are economically useful. I was not "pontificating on social policy" as you commented. Please show me where I either agreed or disagreed on the 80/20 laws? I was pointing out that your point was flawed in 1) singling out this building as if others did not have this same situation and 2) that you called poor people "riff raff". I would think that regardless if you are a liberal or a conservative this is still considered inappropriate.

A racist is a simple minded person who can't debate the facts and resorts to race baiting........

Regardless, I always thought District was for tools. And you could tell by the marketing campaign, they had some shirtless moron who either had family money and didn't work or was a model (because he wasn't smart enough to work in a high paying job and wasn't cool enough because he lived in that area which is crappy) and some B cup chick posing in the tilt-a-whirl windows.

At least Wm Beaver was designed to have views ... you can see it from Brooklyn Heights Promenade.

hahahah. JACKASS. dude its christmas, cheer up!

Interesting comments... Why doesn't one of you buy my 436k 2 bed condo as an investment property in Hudson Heights at 255 Cabrini and rent it out?

maraman and georgek, we got our default notice for the district as well. not closing on the apt based on our own personal situation and where we believe the market is heading, it was the best decision for us. i do think the developers are pretty nervous as they have asked (through lawyers) to have us call him directly to discuss our situation. have not spoken directly to him yet. very very interesting.

jwalkin, interesting, indeed.
They have not contacted me yet, but they still may, even after the default notice expires. My intelligence tells me that many others are doing what we did - walking away from our deposits. Thru mid-December, as stated in this thread, about 30 units have closed, which I have confirmed thru ACRIS. They indicated that all closings would be done by January. At that rate, they will only close another 40 - 50 units by then, for a total of 70 - 80. That will leave them unable to pay off their construction loans, and have to carry the common charges, taxes on the unsold units. Plus, 20 Pine, a better building, is undercutting District's pricing by 25 - 30% - and they are not selling at these levels. Sponsors will probably be offering you a discount to close, but likely not near enough to make it worth your while to close. With Leviev's financial problems only getting worse (Apropos on UWS now in trouble), District could easily fall into bankruptcy if they don't sell at least 100 units. I plan on playing a waiting game, but only if they offer me a substantial discount of say 50% or $500 per sf. It may not get there with the Sponsors in control, but a creditor may be more willing to negotiate. If they give full credit for our deposit, this could actually make this an attractive proposition. Keep me posted of your developments - I will do the same.

arent people who walk away from their deposits opening themselves up to a lawsuit by the sponsor? bottom line is that a contract was signed by both parties?

bart, no. developers can pull units out from sellers for any reason if they return deposit. buyer is not as lucky, can walk but will lose deposit.

NOT in District, but uptown, I pulled away from my condo purchase last month. the sponsor gave a part of my money back and we signed a mutual release agreement. Like jwalking, I am happy with my decison given where the market is heading.

coverdrive, i'm curious how you were able to get some of your money back? did you just threaten to take your case to the ag's office/court? was there anything particular to the case that made them more willing to return part of your deposit (ie past one year, etc)? like others, i'm backing out of my contract (10% deposit) and, of course, would love to get something (anything) back.

Looks like the District has investors - 2 rentals - one at a ridiculous $3,350 for a 550 sq. ft. studio, that will surely be on the market for a long, long time.

JC Deniro actually called me and left a message, guess they are fishing around as to why I did not close. According to ACRIS, 37 units have gone to closing. Nikki told me in Nov. that they plan on wrapping up all closings by Jan. and that 120 units were in contract.

Anybody have any updates on how many people have walked, when the closings will be done? If they were to offer me a significant discount off my contract price, I might consider closing; anyone know if they have started to discount?

last i heard 45 apts had closed.

80 apts at 20 Pine to be sold at wholesale.

http://curbed.com/archives/2009/01/09/buildingchopper_half_off_at_20_pine_when_you_buy_80_units.php#more

Could District be next? Leviev only owns 50%. Is there much more work to be done and do they have the money to do it and pay the carrying charges on the unsold units?

hey georgek,

the building is actually completely done. all the common areas, everything.

No, the building isn't quite done yet. The fitness center, the pool, the mezzanine are all close but no cigar. They are not open yet to the residents.

What's going on with the retail space in the building?

newbie - thanks for sharing that. It would not surprise me if they are cutting corners. When I was dealing with the Sponsor, they were not very unhelpful. Funny thing is, I had asked them if I could close early, and they told me No. In the period from when I wanted to close and my scheduled date, I had a change of heart and decided it was too risky to be paying $1,000 per sq. ft. in the Financial District. I am grateful to them for that.
My fear is that they won't be able to finish the remaining units and amenities and fund the common charges on the unsold units. All of Leviev's projects are in deep trouble.
Have you heard if all the apts. have been completed? They only have closed on about 45 and I was told all closings (120) would be done by Jan.
Last time I walked by, the retail space was more of a construction staging area. They had told us they were going to have a restaurant there, but everything has changed since the collapse of Wall St.

Is the District Sponsor now renting units? I saw 3 new rentals posted with JC Deniro and the same sales agent team as the listing agents? This was one of my reasons for walking, that there would be a substantial number of unsold units and they would turn it into a rental building or hotel.

I saw the same about the rentals. If sponsor rentals represent only a small number of units, it doesn't concern me that much, but if it extends to more than say 15 units, then I'll get worried.

I'm going to try to get a better idea of what else is left to be completed. I may stop by the sales center in the next week or so to find out. I'll ask about closings as well.

GeorgeK, a question for you. You wrote "District could easily fall into bankruptcy if they don't sell at least 100 units." Is that a conjecture or was there something in the condo offering plan that contains such a covenant? What are their pressure points right now? Do they have payments coming up or milestones that need to be met in the near future?

Also, have they come back to you to discuss your closing?

Newbie - I had read an article that said banks begin to get nervous when only 60% of a new development is sold, which is roughly 100 units for the District. The lower the number gets the more nervous the Bank will get. The District's mortgage was $111mm in Jan. 2007, it is now probably $130mm, incl. interest. The 41 recorded sales to date brought in $33.6mm, and sales seem to be slowing down. Plus, they now need to pay common charges and RE taxes on the unsold units which adds even more to their losses. The fact that they are now renting tips me off that they are not going to sell out anytime soon and/or are likely to have to deeply discount to move the remaining inventory. Given these facts, you can bet your bottom dollar that any remaining work will be done at a bare minimum and of the lowest quality as this just adds to their losses.
I have not returned their call, as I expect they would probably not want to do any more than scare me about losing my deposit or maybe offer to pay a few thousand in closing costs.
Let me know what you find out when you visit.
Given my negative thoughts on this blog, I do like the building, just not at the price I contracted to pay. If it fell in the hands of the Bank thru foreclosure, I would hope they would approach me with a deal to buy at a steep discount.

If anyone on this blog would like to rent yourr apartment at the district please email me at frank@scozzafavainc.com

I'm sorry that you're all having so much trouble and I hope that you can all make back your investments or the deposit that you lost.

I think the building is great as far as looks and finishes, but I can see the troubles that someone that bought one cpuld face.

Anyway, good luck to all of you and if anyone wants to rent to me, please let me know.

Have a nice day and remember this. Though money is very important a factor in our quality of life, it's not the only thing. You're all smart and you will all recover.

Best,

Frank

georgek

have you seen the common areas, or see what remaining work needs to be done? there isnt any more construction that needs to take place. the roof deck is done, with loungers and cabanas, reflecting pools (looks amazing). the gym is complete with equipment (plastic wrapping was taken off last week). the spa area includes a lap pool, steam room, sauna, multiple showers, plunge pool and jacuzzi (still need to fill these with H20). the screening room is done including billiards table and flat screen with chairs. the library is complete as well with furniture.

if there's any additional work that you are referring to pls advise.

good luck in your efforts

My boyfriend and I have just close at the District for a studio on January 9th.
Now, It's really nice to find out that we are the only 2 idiots left considering the District the most beautiful and affordable building in Financial District.
George, as I read, it's almost 8 weeks that you've been talking shit about the District.
When we decided to buy we tried to offer less. Do you want to know what they gave us? A washer and dryer. So please, if you want to buy at the District stop bringing bad luck and pay what you have to pay or go at 20 Pine. Maybe there they would accept your intelligence tricks.

60+ closed. Another 58 in contract.

I saw the amenities, and they are much further along now. Pool isn't filled, as bart mentioned, but it looks like everything is close to ready to go. Roofdeck looks great. There is still some work in some of the hallways and on the glass mezzanine, but again, these are minor.

Kingdeka,

You are very naive to be calling someone a fool from walking away from their deposit. Frankly I am surprised as to why anyone in this market would not walk away from a contract entered pre-Lehman collapse. The market is off at least 20%, so one could simply walk away from a contract (or more likely renegotiate a lower price) and buy that same/similar apartment for 20-30% less than the original contract. Long-term or not, simple economics would tell someone to walk away.

I love this, a one bedroom being marketed as a 3 bedroom. If I were king, I'd decree a law that fined real estate borkers $1,000 for every listing that inflated the number of bedrooms, or square footage for that matter.

Barely any windows in this place, looks like a cave dwelling. Hope the rest of the building is better.

I used to live in the mid-80s in this area, in The Bindery, next to the Brooklyn Bridge on Pearl Street. I don't think it has gotten much nicer since then.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/281296-condo-60-ann-street-apt-401-fultonseaport-new-york

Boy - this is an interesting site. Lots of people with misinformation. My firm is in Washington DC and we have done some advisory work for an lawyer referral group called No-Condo.com. We are monitoring commentary and their web team told me about this site. Our firm is not doing work in NY, but No-Condo.com is using a highly reputable NY law firm to pursue cases in NY. They show up on the No-Condo.com website - www.no-condo.com. Our firm specializes in the laws that these firms are using to get people out of their contracts and you often can get out depending upon the number of units in the building and when you purchased. It is my understanding that the firms that work with No-Condo do so on a contingency fee basis. No one seems to be very fond of attorneys, including me - and I am one. However, my thought is that getting back something instead of nothing is a good thing. Good luck with these issues.

Newbie - thanks for that report. Glad to hear that the people living there will have the amenities soon. When I was last there, the showers, sauna and steam room were not even built out, pool was covered with plywood.
I was told in mid-Nov. that all closings (about 120 units in contract) would be done by January. They started closings in mid-Nov. and have closed about 60, or roughly 30 per month. At that rate they should close another 15 - 20 by the end of Jan, which would bring them to 75 or 80 units sold. I am wondering if the remaining 35 to 40 contracted units are not ready or if buyers are walking away. A broker posting on Urban Digs estimated that 25% of contracted buyers on new developments are walking away. That would seem to be in line with what may be happening at the District.

20 Pine now selling at < $700 per sq ft. Crazy to pay $1,000 per sq ft at the District:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/782516

$700,000 for 1,005 sq ft

Maraman,

hmm, sounds like you are pretty bitter about walking away from your 10% deposit at District? are you thinking about all the things you could be doing with that 10% had you not signed a contract? it would be nice to have that $$ sitting in the bank right now. wow, you could have used that cash on vacations for the next say 20 years, or maybe even bought 2 new cars? or maybe you could have bought Dow 8K? aah, the possibilities. alas, instead you choose to blog 20 Pine vs. District, hahaha. why dont you spend your energies and come up with ways to recoup your lost monies. Sour grapes, no one like them.

No, I am not bitter, I feel lucky that I did not pay over $1,000 when the market is currently at $700. My time frame was too short to be locked in to a big loss. If you plan on being there 5 years or more, i am sure prices will recover, but that was not my plan. 20 Pine is a greater risk now because amenities are not complete and District's are just about ready, that may account for some of the price differential. All I know is that when I signed in 2007 I could not afford 20 Pine, which is where I wanted to buy, and now I can buy a much larger apt there for less than my contracted apt at the District.
In any event, I certainly wish you good luck and enjoyment of your apt.

Maraman, is your time-frame still less than 5 years? If so, are you thinking that at current levels it's worth buying at 20 Pine even with such a short time-frame?

the market is not at 700 psf. what, one apt is that you are seeing somewhere? how about all the other apts at 20 pine, are they also selling for 700? what about in other buildings in FIDI, are they selling for 700 psf? if not, how can you make such a generalization.

and the difference between the buildings is not simply the amenities being ready. the bottom line is there is way too much supply at 20 Pine. District is all but sold out. in addition, District was priced correctly from the start and will therefore be much more insulated from any pricing weakness. whereas 20 Pine was possibly priced too high to begin with.

I think there are a lot of investors/ Wall Streeters who have purchased at 20 Pine who may soon be under pressure to sell or be thrown into foreclosure. I would wait if I were you, we could see further drops. Rent for a 675 sq ft studio at 20 Pine is now down to $2200 per month. I read on another blog that a rule of thumb for value is 14 times annual rent, which would value that apt at about $550 per sq ft.

District is nowhere near sold out.

District 95% Sold Out? That is what this broker is claiming:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/281296-condo-williamsann-the-mecca-of-the-dowmtown-rennaissance-fultonseaport-new-york

The listing shows a 15% price cut to under $700 psf, lowest price on anything at District, which seems to contradict a 95% sell-out condition.
Last I heard, District has not even closed 50% yet.
How can these shameless brokers make such bald-faced lies?

Looking at this building listings illustrates the bizarre state of nyc real estate right now because it seems like most of the units for sale have not yet been marked to new market conditions. I want to buy BUT i'm on a buyer;s strike until lots of units in lots of buildings are way way way down from peak. Asset prices need to correct. I see no logical reason to buy now when the upside is zippo and the downside is way down, and obviously only a few sellers have already faced reality.

BG, I saw that as well. 95% sold through? It's unconscionable to make such a claim.

This is an interesting building to watch. In a downturn, it's the distressed developers who will adjust to market prices first (they are the first to need to clear).

Price per square foot is not accurate when the claimed square footage of the apartment is about 15% higher than what it measures out to be in reality. It isn't too hard to measure a box. Why are all of the square footage calculations so inflated? How do they get away with this? Doesn't the bank call them out on it when providing mortgages to the new owners?

My policy is to measure the apt myself during the viewing. Calculate the price by multiplying the price/sq ft (of course, a number that I feel is appropriate) by the sq footage that I measure. I then make an offer based on that.

When an apt is 700-1000 $/sqft, there's no way you should pay for 300 sq ft that isn't there.

What happened to all the Sponsor listings at The District? All listed as unavailable today. Are they planning on converting to a rental building?

Very interesting.

GeorgeK, they are not converting to rental, they signed with a new sales team at another company

Is it just me? Or does anyone else think that the floor plans at District are a little weird?

No sales agent will be successful in selling apartments at $1000 per sf when the market is at least 30% below that. Could they also be doing a wholesale sale of the remaining units, similar to what the same developer is doing with 20 Pine? I only see about 60 units closed in ACRIS, so it would be quite a big sale.

Let them marinate in their own juice.. let the buzzards circle a little lower and then the brokers will drop their feather hats and run. To think that they have gotten away with cheating and lying for at least 5 years

Ok I still think the floor plans @ District are weird

For those of us looking at getting our District deposit back there is hope, read this:

http://cityfile.com/dailyfile/4720

Apparently, the Sponsor failed to provide proper disclosures under the Interstate Land Sales Full Disclosure Act and a contracted buyer is suing for rescission of the contract.

Thanks for the Cityfile link. Looking at the purchase agreement did I read it right that there are a host of other "costs" the plaintiff is absolving himself of. The transfer taxes of NYS and NYC and the pro rata share of the Super's apt. Is the latter true? New projects require that you buy and fund a share of the Super's apt. What a racquet!!!

BTW, Mr Steve An, the plaintiff, your legal doc, the purchase agreement has your SS# for all to see. xxx-xx-1523...

Some of these posts are a riot!! I live in a Studio + HO at District and so far I love my apartment and the building, and especially the staff! Dont scare me with this bankruptcy talk though. I thought that part of my closing money went to the management agency and supers apartment, isn't this what runs the building? I dont think it has anything to do with Leviev.

Some of these posts are a riot!! I live in a Studio + HO at District and so far I love my apartment and the building, and especially the staff! Dont scare me with this bankruptcy talk though. I thought that part of my closing money went to the management agency and supers apartment, isn't this what runs the building? I dont think it has anything to do with Leviev.

The problem is there is a ton of unsold apts - last I heard only 60 or 70 closings A lot of people walked away from deposits. Sponsor has to pay real estate taxes and common charges on those units and pay back bank loans. Hopefully, all amenities are done, but last I heard they were not. If they don't sell the remaining units bank will foreclose. That was my fear and why I walked away from my contract.

Streetview - are you questioning whether new projects normally make you pay the NYS and NYC transfer taxes and the super's apartment? If so, every new construction apartment makes the buyer pay the NYS and NYC transfer taxes. I imagine now that the market is soft, some buyers are getting those costs paid by the sponsor, but when the market was good, there was no room for negotiation on these. As for the super's apartment - that is also common. The other alternative that some buildings use is for the condo association to take out a mortgage to buy the super's apartment and the have carrying costs added to every tenant's monthly common charges.

DuggDown,

i too am an owner at District. and like you, i love the apt. and building/staff as u mentioned. a couple weeks ago i asked and was told that 80 apts had closed. as far as the amenities, i watched a hoops game in the screening room this past week (great sound system). yet still waiting on the gym/ pool area to open. everything looks completed but waiting on city approval

What amazes me is the amount of additional costs these new developments "crammed" down to the Purchasers because they could. I am sure they were well intended in the Hot Market of the bygone years. Will these new developments have to scale them back. From a percentage basis, am I correct in looking at The District's closing costs (per S. An contract) as being a large number, say +10 percent of the purchase price.

NYS Transfer tax 1.0%
NYC Transfer tax 1.0%
2 months working capital contribution 0.25%
Legal fees of the sponsor 0.50%
Mansion Tax (n/a)%
Super's apt 5.6%
Any other costs I am missing?

So what happens if the bank forecloses? it does not look like many of the unsold apartments will go anywhere.. what would happen next? or the owner, being the richest man in Russia, will be able to continue paying the carrying costs of the unsold apartments?

Life will be interesting at The District. I guess the screening room with its terrific sound system will muffle any compliants. The gym and the pool, both high monthly cash expenditures, is probably being held up by the Sponsor as a way to conserve cash and not because of any delay in the NYC approval. That's my guess.

Streetview:

No, you are not correct in your calculations. There are the transfer taxes, the 2 months working capital, and the legal fees as you mention, however the Super's apartment was about half a percent of closing cost even if you look at Mr. Steve Ann's contract, it says he paid $4,500 for it on his $820,000 apt. Theres no way every apt would have to pay 5.6% when theres 163 apts. I didn't have to pay mansion tax since I moved into a studio, but even if I did I cant blame the developer for "cramming down the purchasers" -- this and the transfer taxes are taxes we are paying the government! In fact, the Sponser gave me a free washer/dryer ($2,000+) when I mentioned the economy, etc. at the closing table (SOMETHING I RECOMMEND ANYONE CLOSING TO DO, IT WAS PRETTY EASY). So, in all, about 1% - 1.25% of my closing cost actually went to someone other than the government.

.25% of the closing goes to working capital for the building, as you said. This money goes to the condo management (Cooper Sq.) as an initial payment for maintenance. Assuming that 80 units closed at an average of $900,000 (all speculation, I could be way off) times .25% operating fee from closing = $180,000. In addition, we all pay monthly maintenance charges. This is the actual budget/cost of operating the building, it has nothing to do with the developer, the maintenance bill I get is from Cooper Square. So the developer going bankrupt or foreclosing really doesn't seem to have to do much with DISTRICT anymore. Am I not seeing this right? This is the conclusion I have come to after doing about 2 hours of research on this.

I should also mention that the management agent from Cooper Square told me over a week ago that the 421-g tax abatement had been approved, so for the next 10+ year I will be paying next to nothing for my RE taxes. That coupled with my ~$700 maintenence for my 740 sq ft apt shows that at a value standpoint it is really quite the opposite of what you are saying.

Bart:

Cant you barely wait until all of the amenties open up? How did you get in the screening room, they usually dont allow me when I ask. Its all so beautiful, I cant wait to use the roof in the summer.

Sorry about the Super's apt. I misread it.

As to the Developer's health, be concerned about the commercial space they probably retained (if any). The developer collects the rent from the commercial tenants and will make some contribution to the overall Condo Association. What the developers love to do is underestimate their contribution to the expenses of the overall Condo. i.e. maximize net revenue from the commercial. Thus the residential tenants have to make many hard choices surrounding the expenses of the whole condo (commercial + residential).

The developer will be a "save cash flow" mode if closings are delayed or the market slows. I would assume they control the Condo Assoc and the managing agent's activities at this current time. That is Cooper Square won't do anything for The District without checking with the developer.

"Thus the residential tenants have to make many hard choices surrounding the expenses of the whole condo (commercial + residential)." Can you explain? I dont follow. What choices will I have to make? Also, what kind of things does the developer contribute to the condo association after the apartments are sold and close?

duggdown,

im so pumped for the weather to warm and be able to utilize the roof deck. someone mentioned them putting a grill/bar and sound system up there as well. ill be logging many an hr up there come spring/summer. not to mention the pool area was done beautifully. every last finish, from the tiles used, to the steam/sauna rooms, plunge pool and jacuzzi. im noticing the building has filled up nicely.

streetview, my closing costs came to just under 5% of purchase price. again standard for new developments

Do real people talk like bart22?

Sure they do. A lot of people who closed on new developments have drunk from the RE punch bowl. They spout back the exact things that sold them on the apartment in the first place. And, I can't say I blame them. They are in a really tough situation now. For those who plan to keep their contracts, they cling to these things and these things provide them with comfort. I'm not saying that bart22 is NOT a broker, or that I think his decision is financially smart (we all actually know much too little about his situation to judge), but I've heard a lot of it from buyers in positions similar to bart22. Additionally, if you own one of these condos, it's in your best interest to make the situation seem as good as possible. If more fellow-buyers walk, you're in a worse position. It's human nature and not the first time I've heard stuff like it on this board.

I just looked at the Brown, Harris website and see that they have listed about 15 units at the District. Shockingly, they are still holding prices firm at over $1k psf, when the market is at $700 or less. Website is difficult to navigate and somehow listings do not get picked up in StreetEasy. The combination of overpricing and poor marketing technique is not going to sell units.
And the amenities are still not done - sounds like a "dog ate my homework" excuse by the Sponsor. Man, am I glad I did not close!

wishhouse;punch drinking ----- .i summise that you're probably someone who ventures little and achieves little,but who is convinced of his copycat retoric,much better espoused by others!

MARAMAN
I see your comments all over downtown condos blogs,all the same...
how many units you bought to make a profit?
I will enjoy to be at District and you will lose all money you spread all over the city,
Apartments should be used by people who are planning to live there and not who are looking for a easy money. I spoke to super - 97 families moved in

jrw293, I'm sorry you don't find my posts insightful, feel free to hit the ignore button on them. Do you have anything you'd like to add to this discussion?

ADP - that is what a blog is for - to share thoughts and opinions. I give mine and you give yours. If you don't like what I say, ignore me. Most people who do that, wind up regretting it because I am thorough in my analysis and usually correct. 20 Pine units are selling at less that $700 psf, as I have pointed out many times. The amenities are not ready yet, but neither are they at the District. 20 Pine is a much better building and when the amenities are done, the District will have a tough time competing. Even you have to admit, $1000+ psf for an apt at 60 Ann is way out of line with the market.

DuggDown: The sponsor is going to control your life at The District a little longer than you envisioned or for that matter the Developer thought. The Developer wants to move to other projects, but now he has to conserve cash for the long haul. Just make sure you keep good records of dates when things opened (also dated pictures). When your condo assoc comes out from under control of the sponsor, someday, you may need those records.

Rentals listings for this building
SAVE RSS Active Listings (12)
%u2193 $3,450
60 Ann Street 1 bed 801 ft�
$3,100
60 Ann Street 698 ft�
$3,100
60 Ann Street 1 bed
%u2193 $3,046
111 Fulton Street 1 bed 800 ft�
%u2193 $2,995
60 Ann Street 2 beds
$2,750
60 Ann Street 1 bed 560 ft�
$2,495
60 Ann 540 ft�
$2,450
60 Ann Street 589 ft�
%u2193 $2,400
60 Ann Street 1 bed 560 ft�
$2,400
60 Ann Street 550 ft�
%u2193 $2,300
60 Ann Street 713 ft�
%u2193 $2,200
60 Ann Street

SAVE RSS Listings in Contract (0)
None

oh, and for $2200 you get the last month free. ouch!

The rental listing may be indicative of a heavy group of "family and friends" who bought into the District at discounts and are looking to rent the units out since flip sales may be tough. The problem with that will be a building with a lot of traffic.

NYRENewbi and wishhouse,

when decribing the amenities i was simply responding to duggdown. in addition, im stating my experiences thus far where im living. no im not a broker, im a happy homeowner. and Maraman, im done reposonding to your 20 pine/district comparisons, apples to oranges once again. short term fluctuations in the RE market are meaningless to my family and i so ill leave the predictions for other bloggers. they seem to know exactly how things will pan out over the next yr, impressive to say the least.

when all is said and done District will be one of the premier projects of downtown. ill refrain from talking about building specifics since i seem to offend others when i do. but the lesser # of units (163) will keep prices firmer than other buildings. the fulton street transit center will be completed thx to the recent federal stimulus bill allocating nearly 500 million.

Maraman:

The numbers you are providing are again not accurate. It took about 10 minutes for me to find a unit at District going for $680 psf (at www.districtny.com, 9th listing down), and, though its really hard to find listings for 20 pine, if you trust the street easy listing I cant find a unit for less than $850psf, and an average definitely over $1000 psf and some upto $2,000psf. Its not like this is particularly good for me, having bought in District at a little under $1000psf, but I do like to use FACTS in my statements.

I know that not every unit at District is $680 psf, but even the penthouses are now listed at $850-900 psf. So much for you "being thorough in your analysis and usually correct". This all took me about 15 minutes to figure out.

Streetview:

The sponsor isnt controlling my life nor will he ever. I have paid for and own my real estate, it is not something they can take away from me. If the amenities aren't ready for us to use within a soon enough time I'll complain again but as I have been explained this was in the contract I signed so I will live with it. The amenities are 100% done visually (the pool is filled up with water for goodness sake) I dont think the developer will go backwards and demolish it; when they say they are having a tough time getting approval from the city I believe them. As far as the developer controlling my life -- the minute that there is no doorman/concierge and they turn the amenities into commercial retail space, you can then boldly say "I told you so". Until then, Im not sure what this game you and Maraman are playing to try to scare people with your groundless claims, its not necessary, the markets bad enough as it is.

DD

you have to understand that there are some that have walked away from their 10% deposits, continue to rent apartments and arent building equity. that has to be a tough pill to swallow, therefore the negative posts in an attempt to try and make themselves feel better