Wall Street Bonuses to Fall 50% to 2002 Levels, Officials Say

Your comments are really getting boring. We all know that real estate prices are coming down. Please keep in mind there are people behind these numbers.

"Please keep in mind there are people behind these numbers."

You think I don't know that? You think I'm unaffected by this?

But no one seemed to be worried about all those people priced out of places to live on the way up, or who were too cautious and prudent to make a bad investment and wound up renting when they would have preferred to buy.

It's a two-way street. Typically, you only seem to worry about half of that street.

It may be a two-way street, but you only play one-note over and over and over.

The horse is dead...we get it...we have Yahoo too....

waverly, aka real-estate broker, I play plenty of notes. This is just one. The one I won't play is the spunky note.

Given that waverly was one of the folks who denied this was coming, this "too much already" is quite disingenuous.

"But no one seemed to be worried about all those people priced out of places to live on the way up, or who were too cautious and prudent to make a bad investment and wound up renting when they would have preferred to buy."

Aren't real estates always bad investments? So high prices preventing people from owning must be a good thing, tight?
Why would some people prefer to buy? A shelter is a shelter. If it's cheaper to rent people should just keep renting, right?

I think these are all your theories. So why in the world are you worried about people not being able to buy?

You are contradicting yourself.

Buying RE might be an effective way to secure yourself a home... and often is, depending on certain factors.

Making the mistake of calling this an "investment" is where you go wrong...

The folks who need to / should buy for shelter reasons were priced out by the "investor" schmucks. That was not good. That prices are returning to levels where folks who need secure housing have better options, thats a great thing.

If the speculators get burned, good.

Housing in NYC is not driven by speculators...

Steve - not a real estate broker at all, but thanks for being so narrow-minded that you assume anyone who disagrees with you must be a broker.

Everytime there is an article about job losses or some firm having difficulty, there it is on SE with your name on it. That is tiresome to many. If you feel the need to disparage, so be it.

NYC - To you, anyone who doesn't completely agree with everything you say is automatically in denial or thinks RE is on the rise, which is total crap....so the same applies to you.

so, don't read it. if you aren't interested in Steve's gloom no need to take part. at least he's not sitting around having another brewskie while Rome burns.

Having said that, the broker comments are (usually) unecessary. I hated being called a naive idiot who couldn't possibly conceive of the people smarter than me who were here to ensure the never-ending ascent of NYC (WE'RE DIFFERENT CUZ MANHATTAN'S AN ISLAND) real estate prices, and I'm sure that people who have any positive inclinations in this market must be tired of being called brokers.

"Aren't real estates always bad investments?"

I've never seen it in the plural, but yes, as "investments" per se, because it's not an investment.

"So high prices preventing people from owning must be a good thing, tight?"

No, because it also raises rents.

"Why would some people prefer to buy?"

Because sometimes it's cheaper than renting.

"A shelter is a shelter."

Yes. And shelter is shelter.

"If it's cheaper to rent people should just keep renting, right?"

Yes. But that doesn't mean that the price of rents is unaffected.

"I think these are all your theories."

Not mine. Accepted economics.

"Housing in NYC is not driven by speculators..."

Really? Look at all the new-dev flips.

New development is not the majority of NYC housing. I would venture to say that most people in NYC buy to live in the apartment. Very different from Miami etc.

Coops make up most of Manhattan and it is hard to flip those.

Why do people (aboutready, stevejhx, et. all) spend COUNTLESS hours on a website devoted to RE when they have ZERO interest in buying, selling, etc., RE? This website is devoted and geared towards those who have an interest in NYC RE, not those who post job losses website links and discourage anyway from partaking in any RE transaction.

As streeteasy has a vested interest in the RE business, I am surprised they haven't blocked these naysayers yet. Or maybe they just realize no successful person bothers to even post here, as time is money and these people obviously have only time.

Steve, why do you even waste your time on here? You clearly have no interest in buying to even justify being on SE the amount of time you do. Yet you are the single most active person on here. If you devoted half as much time to improving your situation in life as you do spewing on here your individual opinion, you may find you start to view life differently.

It is bizarre that you think calling people a real estate broker is demaning. After all, this website is geared to the RE community, brokers, buyers and sellers. What are you? None. A broker being on SE would be appropriate to their lives. But you? Totally inappropriate to your life. Real estate brokers should be on streeteasy, a website devoted to real estate. You, on the other hand, are the one that is out of line. You have no business being on here other than to spread your pessimistic attitude on deaf ears.

Real estate agents on a RE website? Perfectly acceptable.
Unemployed (out of work) translator or whatever you claim to do, who rents an apartment with no interest in buying/selling on a RE website? Borderline insane. Maybe you should find a chat room on AOL or manhunt to occupy your time.

New development may be the majority of the transactions, however. Which is why a decline there may make overall statistics look bad. Meanwhile people sitting pretty in coops didn't see such a ridiculous climb up due to speculators, and won't see such a ridiculous crash down.

"As streeteasy has a vested interest in the RE business, I am surprised they haven't blocked these naysayers yet."

A board that censors based on opinions is doomed to failure. I agree with your overall point that steve is horribly wasting his time, but vehemently disagree that Streeteasy should block him.

"Wall Street bonuses will decline at least 50 percent this year to 2002 levels"
I hope house prices will also go down to 02 levels....

It is pretty certain that bonuses for 2009 are not going to be all that good either.

Bonuses for '09 are not going to be good either. Although, there could be so much expectation of bad binuses that some people will almost be pleasantly surprised...but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

"No, because it also raises rents.
Yes. But that doesn't mean that the price of rents is unaffected"

Ah, so you are really worried about people who can't afford to rent, and you think today's high prices will cause rents to rise?
Also didn't you also say that rents can't grow faster than income? So why are you worried for renters?

""Why would some people prefer to buy?"
Because sometimes it's cheaper than renting."

But you said renting is much cheaper than owning in this market, so by your logic there shouldn't be anyone who'd prefer to buy now, right? So who are you worried about?

Actually, I do plan on purchasing real estate, probably. If it never makes economic sense, I will continue to rent. StreetEasy does also cover rentals, no? I currently own real estate, although not currently in Manhattan. While I hate seeing the aftermath of the collapse of the real estate bubble, almost as much as I disliked the bubble going up, I find it fascinating, and I'm not sure where you get off trying to make the determination as to who should have an opinion regarding, or find interesting, such topics. Real estate truly does affect us all, whether we're still on a futon in our parents' basement, or we have two kids and are trying desperately to find something in a good school district.

My real estate broker is a fabulous person, I've known him for 8 or so years, I'm helping him set up a blog. As long as he's in the business, I'll use him.

Curbed is also a website devoted to real estate, and if you think Steve is hard on the brokers, take a peak at their comments sections.

nyc10022, i was just recycling some of Steve's theories, or according to him, "accepted economics". Glad you see the contraditions in there.

aboutready, your situation is even more sad than I could have dreamed.

Maybe you should find a RE website devoted to a situation that is closer to where you own property, as that is more appropriate to your situation than here.

Who uses the word 'fabulous' when describing a man, unless you are ............

Keep on renting, and waiting until it makes 'economic sense' for you, but I doubt you will ever be able to afford anything below 34th street on your retail salary.

shall we all agree that....

waverly is a broker?

The nastiness on this board does not make me think highly of the real estate world (and those clinging to it)

"Your comments are really getting boring. We all know that real estate prices are coming down."

"As streeteasy has a vested interest in the RE business, I am surprised they haven't blocked these naysayers yet."

It's funny. On the way up people on this board (and lets face it, almost everyone involved in real estate) screamed at how this time it was different this time, how Manhattan was unique, how co-ops are immune, how there couldn't be a bubble with all the wealthy people who live in Manhattan, how New York was adding a million people by 2020, how foreigners will pick up demand, blah blah blah blah blah. Go back to some of JuiceMan's posts to see the absolute lunacy of those who were too stupid or too blind to see it coming. Now that Steve is pointing out the opposite, you want him to shut up. Perhaps you should have been more cognizant of this on the way up?

Its not unique to real estate. The anonymity of the Internet makes people less civil to each other, in many contexts. I admit I fall into that trap some myself, but am still on the receiving end of a whole lot more nastiness than I'm on the giving end of.

You sorta ask for it techy ;)

How? By being moderately bullish?

Now I remember where I recognize your username from, jgr. You listened to something stevejhx said, and in response said the following to me (our first interaction ever, I believe):

"Who agrees with you that the mortgage deduction isn't priced into the house? Are they also stupid? When you buy a home (well maybe not you, you're retarded)..."

First, you've lost all right to judge ANYBODY when it comes to nastiness. Second, by listening to anything stevejhx has to say, you've also lost the right to judge anybody when it comes to intelligence.

Did that come from your bookmark :)

How is real estate NOT an investment? Any less than other items where capital is laid out at a point in time with the hope/expectation of receiving benefits down the road. Is a jacket an "investment"? A suit? A pocket back? Unclear- perhaps it's benefits are social, psychological etc..but it does not cash flow..RE cash flows, and every other asset that does that can reasonably be bought can ABSOLUTELY be thought of as an investment. Whether it's a good or bad investment is determined by price. Prices wandering above long-term income growth support merely takes/gives away opportunities to exploit those prices.. I fail to see the other side of this

tech_guy - you're correct. It's definitely an internet phenomenon

Nointerest, how clever, unsubstantiated personal attacks. Actually, as I've mentioned before, I'm a stay-at-home mom, so on my salary I wouldn't be buying a thing. My husband, however, is a partner in a law firm, so we'll get by. He thinks our broker is fabulous also. Your comment regarding the adjective is juvenile.

What is a broker if not a retail position? Sales are sales, and I wouldn't demean someone in any field for what they do, be they actuary, garbage collector, broker or working at Duane Reade. I even hold my words generally for those in the finance industry. I've had very good friends at ibs tell me that they honestly felt that those who rocked the boat would lose their jobs. I do have problems with certain occupations, such as head of SEC, former Fed chair, current President of our fair country, etc. But those are germane to the people, I hope, not the positions.

I own a second home, how provincial of me, yes? Beautiful home, glorious land, but I don't think of it as my home, as I have had my primary residence in Manhattan for most of the last 23 years, and have owned a coop and a condo, both below 34th Street.

Funny, I don't think my situation is that sad. Last year, when I was still eager to buy, I felt a bit unsettled, I will confess. But now the salary has gone up substantially and prices of real estate are going down, oddly enough when I had concluded that I didn't really care if I owned here again. How could you begin to know what's appropriate to my situation?

"I would venture to say that most people in NYC buy to live in the apartment"

Venture what you like, most people in NYC rent, most people in Miami buy. Ergo an imperfect comparison.

More people in NYC work in the financial industry than in Miami - hugely important.

"when they have ZERO interest in buying, selling, etc., RE?"

That's a bold claim, when I both own and rent.

"didn't you also say that rents can't grow faster than income?"

In the long-term, yes, which is why rents are up modestly when prices are up sevenfold in ten years.

But they remain affected.

"Coops make up most of Manhattan and it is hard to flip those."

Yes, and no. Not even the board can stop you from flipping.

"Glad you see the contraditions in there."

Which ones?

"Go back to some of JuiceMan's posts to see the absolute lunacy of those who were too stupid or too blind to see it coming."

Bravo.

"Now that Steve is pointing out the opposite, you want him to shut up."

Have been for a year.

"but am still on the receiving end of a whole lot more nastiness than I'm on the giving end of."

¡POR FAVOR!

"second, by listening to anything stevejhx has to say, you've also lost the right to judge anybody when it comes to intelligence."

This gem coming from the very man who a) knows nothing about foreign mutual funds or ETF's yet opines endlessly; b) knows nothing about the gold standard yet opines endlessly; c) says that tax benefits should be calculated based on anything other than how much tax you pay; d) calculated tax benefits without calculating opportunity costs; e) makes up his own definition of opportunity cost; and f) (among others) says that the mortgage interest tax benefit IS factored into the price of a property, but then you have to factor it in AGAIN when figuring out how much it cost you to own, which is logically incomprehensible and a non sequitur...

...I could go on. And have.

Also, I'm not anonymous.

"d) calculated tax benefits without calculating opportunity costs; e) makes up his own definition of opportunity cost"

You should at least try to be consistent when making up lies about me.

"It's definitely an internet phenomenon"

It's a New York City phenomenon

nointerest: you are quite incorrect, the bears are very interested in purchasing real estate...just at significantly lower prices.

there seems to be a new batch of bulls...Tech_guy has the most tenure and I think he has been here for 3 months or so...this new batch will go the way of their predecessors (sp)

"Its not unique to real estate. The anonymity of the Internet makes people less civil to each other, in many contexts. I admit I fall into that trap some myself, but am still on the receiving end of a whole lot more nastiness than I'm on the giving end of."

What a load of crap. He doesn't "get caught", this is the schmuck that *sets* the traps. He admitted so on the long perfitz thread.

He's a troll, plain and simple.

"there seems to be a new batch of bulls...Tech_guy has the most tenure and I think he has been here for 3 months or so...this new batch will go the way of their predecessors (sp)"

I think its the SAME bulls with new names to hide the embarassment of prior calls. Tech guy will be doing that soon...

The wall street guys I know got pretty good bonuses in 2002... I'd take it in a second. Funny thing is, most (actually, all) the Wall St guys I know are doing very well in 09. Like, having their best year ever. They say it's odd to read the news every day signaling the end of the world, yet they are having great years (they're traders, so volatility is king). It sounds surreal.

They're the exceptions then. M&A in the toilet, ibanking in the toilet.
Also, traders overall have less leverage to work with... so the profits of prior years just won't be there.

"What a load of crap. He doesn't "get caught", this is the schmuck that *sets* the traps. He admitted so on the long perfitz thread."

You're the only one on this entire site who criticizes me for setting traps for petrfitz. You also troll a hell of a lot more than I ever did towards petrfitz.

> You also troll a hell of a lot more than I ever did towards petrfitz.

LOL. If only you only trolled toward petrfitz....

You haven't had a fact or an intelligent observation in the history of this board. Everything you post is a troll post. You waste everyone's time.

Good thing your stupidity is funny...

"The nastiness on this board does not make me think highly of the real estate world (and those clinging to it)"

Compared to a lot of boards, it's quite tame, IMO. For one, I am very glad to hear each side of the story, and the more they intelligently assail the others positions, the better idea we have of what is really going on, even if it is to know that the truth is that on some (or many issues), NO ONE knows what is going one in this economy right now. That is actually pretty damned important information.

Personal attacks are unfortunate, but hard to avoid when ideas are clashing so strongly. Don't like some posters childishness, use ignore.

I never troll, but I'll return insults thrown at me with insults back. Typically its very easy - the people insulting me have no leg to stand on, which is why they throw the insults. You know that position well, don't you?

I know that others disagree with you, nyc10022, as to my usefulness on these boards. Its ok though - the irony is that the more you troll and throw insults towards me, the more you prove my point. Please do keep it up.

well put, type 3.

"NO ONE knows what is going one in this economy right now. That is actually pretty damned important information."

Hear hear. Which is why I love getting called an idiot because I don't *know* that the dollar is headed for certain doom any day now. nyc10022, you were throwing insults against me in that conversation, weren't you? All because I insisted certain doom was not a guarantee?

No, thats not why you're an idiot. You're an idiot because you're an idiot.
Asking why China doesn't put money under the mattress, not understanding what deflation is (while you post over and over again), etc.

Dumb predictions are one thing... but you're an idiot in so many other ways.

> I never troll, but I'll return insults thrown at me with insults back

And, I forgot... a liar.

If I scripted this exchange, I couldn't have you prove my point better than you already are.

If you would like a moderated civil real estate forum (although it covers all areas NY and many further afield as well), the wirednewyork site is zealously moderated (although differences of opinion are allowed), and has a regular group of commenters who are extraordinarily knowledgeable. Having said that, it is different, and sometimes a bit of passion in the argument is all to the good.

BTW, what "usefulness"? (other than being a source of amusement)

You don't understand financial concepts, yet waste everyone's time posting about them.
You made market predictions that look awful stupid just weeks later.

What exactly do you think you've added?

> If I scripted this exchange, I couldn't have you prove my point better than you already are.

Apparenly pee wee herman is on this board.

Seriously, what exactly do you think you have added here? Really? Like what information have you brought to the table outside your mattress advice?

unbelievable, more blabbering from nyc10022 that adds nothing to the real estate discussion. Have you considered joining a gym? At least you can get some stress out and maybe you can catch Steve naked and listing in to other people's conversations.

I'm not going to justify myself to you. I already showed on earlier threads how you'll lie so incredibly blatantly when attributing things to me. You also think I contribute nothing.

So stop trolling, put me on ignore, and stop bothering everybody with your trolling crap.

vwear, we know you are tech_guy... its pretty transparent.

You go from post to post with nonsense and insults.

Get a JOB.

vwear/tech_guy, thank you for adding so much to this discussion. You are the savior of mankind.

Get a life, troll.

JOB? What exactly is your job?
I'm not tech_guy but that'll be the last time I say it, and I do say it this time with no judgment applied to him.

> You also think I contribute nothing.

No, everyone thinks that... its why you are the laughingstock.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/6596-treasury-yield-turns-negative

Whats sad is that even after the above 20 posts or so, nyc10022 still can't possibly conceive why anyone would consider him a troll. At least when I intentionally troll petrfitz, I recognize it and admit it (and frankly, am proud of it - but that's reserved just for petrfitz)

so we have a war of the trolls, great

tech guy, you're still talking?

ok, troll on...

trolling trolling trolling, rawhide

that was actually funny, vwear. Maybe you're not tech_troll afterward..

But you do need to start adding something to the discussion...

don't try to butter me up. only way for you to make me happy would be to reduce your postings by 80%

Your million postings wouldn't be as pathetic if you actually had an intelligent thought in any of them...

Every single repeat serial poster on here (nyc10022, vwear, stevjhx, tech_guy, aboutready, iwanttobuyin09) are losers. If you were successful you would not have so much time to devote to a a BLOG. You would be busy with your careers, families, friends, productive hobbies, helping others, and not be so jaded as to think you are actually 'helping others' by posting your lame opinions on here.

I can't believe you are on here every single day, at all times of the day. You guys are the only ones that contribute to this. Why don't you just meet up at a Starbucks and debate over coffee, then at least, you could say you were friends and not be total losers.

I suppose it takes a winner to go out of their way track the posting habits of a bunch of strangers on an anonymous message board, and use those habits to insult them. Do you really get so little satisfaction in real life that this is the way you feel good about yourself?

I suppose it takes a winner to go out of their way track the posting habits of a bunch of strangers on an anonymous message board, and use those habits to insult them. Do you really get so little satisfaction in real life that this is the way you feel good about yourself?

"If you were successful you would not have so much time to devote to a a BLOG."

I'm sure you miss the irony in that statement, sharkie.

Wow tiburon, that really hurt.

No effect on Manhattan real estate.

Oh wait! 2002 was when prices started to skyrocket because of - EXCESSIVE BONUSES!

And this is the mentality of someone who is "SUCCESSFUL"? A person who wants to be Latino?
Please, you are the biggest loser on a blog full of nothing but losers. At least I'm trying to buy something, that's why I come on here once in a while. Not on here everyday with no intention of buying. Those that spew negativity are negative. This must be the website that all the kids that were picked last in gym class gravitate toward. You guys make it too easy. You might as well be freaks on the Jerry Springer Show.

> You might as well be freaks on the Jerry Springer Show.

So your aspiration is to be the audience member who stands in line to watch them?

Impressive.

"This must be the website that all the kids that were picked last in gym class gravitate toward." Good to see you Tiburon. A blog full of NOTHING but losers. Self-referential, are we?

"A person who wants to be Latino?"

What? You must be kidding. I'm too tall to be Latino.

I am a little lost here. Where the heck did the latino comment come from?

tiburon seems to have started the racist stuff, not sure why...

"And this is the mentality of someone who is "SUCCESSFUL"? A person who wants to be Latino? "

Can anyone tell me about 120 W 21st Street?

"Where the heck did the latino comment come from?"

You see, waverly, when they can't think of anything constructive to contribute, they come up with this nonsense.

It's just best to ignore them.

"Please keep in mind there are people behind these numbers."

Boo-freakin' hoo. I'll pull out the world's tiniest violin for you.

For YEARS, long before I ever heard of Steve, I posted on several local blogs in places I happened to be living about the unsustainability of the real estate bubble, and how real estate shills ("realt-whores") were misleading people who would end up suffering as a result. I felt really bad for the people who would lose their shirts when the music stopped.

I no longer do. People like Steve and I were laughed at as "kooks" and "doom and gloomers" for years. "Real estate is just gonna keep goin' up and up forEVER, doncha know? Why, the nice real estate lady told me so!". And I feel sorry for New Yorkers who got burned in the crash LEAST OF ALL. At least if you lived in Miami or Phoenix or Las Vegas or So Cal, you have the luxury of saying "it happened to me first" in 2006. But if you lived in New York, you had the luxury of seeing all these other markets crash first. If you couldn't spot this impending train wreck coming, after all those markets crashed, its only because you were stupid or because you believed the nice realt-whore when she told you "Oh, our New York market is DIFFERENT - we have immigrants! And Wall Street! And the Irish!" Meanwhile, two years ago in Miami, another Realt-whore said "Miami is DIFFERENT! We have the sun! And the tourists! And the immigrants! And the northern retirees! And the beach! Why, our market is just gonna keep goin' up and up forEVER!"

steve, you should apologize. that was completely unnecessary. be a man.

Great points, admmiral.

Remember dco, a nice guy who got run off this board...

... for being right.

tiburon - sexist too. you're a prince. my life is lovely, but thank you for your concern.

Admiral, I quite agree. I left StreetEasy for quite some time. I don't watch much tv, but Desperate Housewives might have been an improvement over the constant Manhattan will never falter talk. I wonder if tiburon is a new name for an old visitor?

Thank you, NYC and aboutready.

People on boards like this get way too butthurt (look it up) just from hearing the truth...

"This website is devoted and geared towards those who have an interest in NYC RE, not those who post job losses website links and discourage anyway from partaking in any RE transaction."

To all those who take this position, you are missing the gestalt: If there's fewer jobs, less people have the need to live/work here and then, there's less demand/competition/desirability for/of NYC RE.

RE professionals always consider the general economy, job numbers & economic growth. All these issues effect RE & therefore, it's relevant to discuss them.

Anyone bored by these posts, just don't read the threads.

ok thanks dwell for that brilliant insight. we'll call you the NEW new EddieWilson

by the way, does anyone know if the rate per word that my housekeeper could translate has gone up or down recently?

No clue, but ask her what this means and get back to us:

Ante esta sentencia que rechazaba la apelación, los actores plantearon ante el mismo Tribunal Superior Segundo Civil, recursos de revocatoria, de adición y de aclaración y pidieron que el caso fuera elevado ante la Sala Primera de Casación a fin de revolver el conflicto de competencia. El Tribunal Superior Segundo Civil rechazó la gestión porque no existen en el Código Procesal Civil esos recursos para atacar una sentencia de este tipo; sentencia número 1543 de 2 de noviembre de 1995. Entonces, los actores plantearon un recurso de casación para ante la Sala Primera de Casación de la Corte Suprema de Justicia, que les fue rechazado ad portas por la sentencia No.10 de 21 de febrero de 1998, porque la legislación no permite este recurso en estos casos.

Then, when she's done, she can clean your toilet.

vwear: your blase ennuis is boring. How about coming up with an original idea?

VWare, you may be the stupidest human in New York. The State, that is.

stevejhx
about 9 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse No clue, but ask her what this means and get back to us:

Ante esta sentencia que rechazaba la apelación, los actores plantearon ante el mismo Tribunal Superior Segundo Civil, recursos de revocatoria, de adición y de aclaración y pidieron que el caso fuera elevado ante la Sala Primera de Casación a fin de revolver el conflicto de competencia. El Tribunal Superior Segundo Civil rechazó la gestión porque no existen en el Código Procesal Civil esos recursos para atacar una sentencia de este tipo; sentencia número 1543 de 2 de noviembre de 1995. Entonces, los actores plantearon un recurso de casación para ante la Sala Primera de Casación de la Corte Suprema de Justicia, que les fue rechazado ad portas por la sentencia No.10 de 21 de febrero de 1998, porque la legislación no permite este recurso en estos casos.

?? This is like some bad movie.

pretty simple Spanish - is the expected answer that someone's cleaning lady would not understand it, or that she would be unable to translate it into English for her employee? - oh, I forgot - it's a response to an insulting post which likens the work of a translator to the skill set of a domestic employee who scrubs toilets - and the retort is..... a discussion of a reversal on appeal, which is supposed to prove that -- what? -- the translator is not merely a translator, but translates really, really, really difficult stuff that his cleaning lady wouldn't understand?

Sorry, I don't get you people. None of you. Each is more special than the other and you're going to tell each other all about it, by golly! We are all commodities, whether translators, lawyers, toilet scrubbers, janitors, autoworkers, doctors or junior investment bankers. And by arguing about who's more valuable of a commodity and referring to a maid as a paragon of lowliness, you're all proving just how much money people will pay to live in what they perceive to be prestigious addresses, because housing is only a commodity, after all, despite all anyone says about the public school zoning, the convenience of their commutes, etc. This is not going to change, even were we to see Dow 3,000 and an 80% decline in real estate prices - people will pay more for perceived prestige, because they want SOOO badly to feel that they are special, or at least superior to someone.

I'm confused by the denial that real estate is an investment, and that at times it is a great investment. Bought well, with leverage, with your down payment considered as you investment, for an individual investor there is really nothing that can compare. Granted, considering your down payment as the investment, if you are levered 4-to-1, it has a ton of risk, but there are no margin calls and if you can meet your monthly you can hold...and if you are buying well, you don't mind holding because you should have a large after tax savings vs. rent. All this said, such buying conditions haven't existed for years. For years, people have accepted rental equivalence, or even a premium (yes on an after tax basis) for the priviledge of appreciation, which for those people will likely be scant over a long long time horizon.

"Each is more special than the other and you're going to tell each other all about it, by golly!"

Not really, lowery, unless by that you mean that everyone has some skill, and it shouldn't be derided.

That's not really difficult Spanish. Actually it's pretty easy. This is a little tougher:

9.- No obstante. en los términos en que está formulada la demanda, por más que el actor emplee en su SUPLICO la mención "'rectificar", 10 cierto es que de facto lo que se solicita es el cese de la publicidad en los términos en que en este momento se está llevando a efecto. De ahí que a mi juicio la medida tenga perfecto encaje tanto en el artículo 31 a) de la LGP como en el artículo 29.2 LGP. pues en
definitiva lo que se solicita es el cese de la publicidad en la forma que se lleva a efecto. No obstante, como la medida cautelar debe ser lo menos inmisiva posible en la esfera comercial del demandado y la forma en que se publicita el producto puede ser admisible si es debidamente corregida, el actor limita su pretensión al cese en la forma actual dejando la puerta abierta a que continue tras la rectificación solicitada, pero propiamente no debe considerarse que su solicitud entraña una orden de rectificación, sino de cesación hasta que no se rectifique.

9.- No obstante. en los términos en que está formulada la demanda, por más que el actor emplee en su SUPLICO la mención "'rectificar", 10 cierto es que de facto lo que se solicita es el cese de la publicidad en los términos en que en este momento se está llevando a efecto. De ahí que a mi juicio la medida tenga perfecto encaje tanto en el artículo 31 a) de la LGP como en el artículo 29.2 LGP. pues en
definitiva lo que se solicita es el cese de la publicidad en la forma que se lleva a efecto. No obstante, como la medida cautelar debe ser lo menos inmisiva posible en la esfera comercial del demandado y la forma en que se publicita el producto puede ser admisible si es debidamente corregida, el actor limita su pretensión al cese en la forma actual dejando la puerta abierta a que continue tras la rectificación solicitada, pero propiamente no debe considerarse que su solicitud entraña una orden de rectificación, sino de cesación hasta que no se rectifique.

what is the point?

Read tiburon's posts.

But I agree - enough.

In an effort to get back to the post title... What were condo and coop /sqft prices in 2002? I found something from the NYT in 2001. In 2001 I think they were $600 and $500 respectively. What were peak averages? Something like $1400/$1100?

That's about right for 2001-2002. Peak was $1,500; $1,300, about.

A friend of mine at one of the bulge brackets was told yesterday by head of IB speaking to his entire group that their firm's bonus pool (the entire company, not just his group) is going to be down 90% this year vs 2007. He was also told that most, if not all, banks' bonus pools are going to be down similar %s. IB head was specifically asked about city press releases and other estimates that pegged the bonus pools at 50% down - his answer was that the estimates are wrong and that most banks will be down 80-90%. They're going to reverse most of the YTD bonus accruals in Q4. This is not rumor, this is fact.

It kind of is rumor... More important to real estate is the number of people unemployed, or getting zeroed on the bonus. Its not the pool, its the individuals. The problem for real estate is the pool that remains is concentrated toward star performers, who are likely to already own their places (and unlikely to take massive hits to their 2006 cost basis to move up the line, and/or are smart enough to see downward momentum gathering strength)

Steve, really $1300 for a coop on average? That feels like peak in the prime hoods (West Village, Carnegie Hill, Central Park West). That $1.5mm for 1,200 sqft. I was thinking more of seeing 1200sqft for $1.35mm broadly speaking during 2007.