You must be joking

i saw that and thought the same thing. i was actually in 7P. looks much nicer than the other one.

you say 7P "is in contract for." how do you know what it is in contract for?

You're right, I don't know but assume around 950K but not sure...hopefully even lower. Can't wait for the "20% off open house!"

And 7 P sold for 775K in 2004, which makes it nicely 45% down from 4P OLP a few months ago.

would love to be a fly on the wall when the broker and the seller decided on the pricing. imagine a lot of wine was spilled.

If this goes for anywhere above 900k, I would be shocked. If you are serious about selling, just price it right, expect offers of 10% lower and be happy to sell. This gets me so frustrated.

and how exactly is this a 3-bed convertible?
a crib next to the kitchen is a bedroom now?

looks like a 4 br to me; the dr and the foyer

8P and 4P were previously listed about a year ago at $1.48 and $1.45, respectively. Other recent similar comps in the building also suggest sale prices above $1.2 on these apartments. These prices reflect either a huge discount or something else going on with this building. Skep - why would you be shocked if it goes anywhere above $900 given these facts?

4P says private outdoor space in the listing. I cannot see it in the floorplan, so it must be magical/invisible private outdoor space and that clearly would justify the higher price.

skeptical, Why does this get you "frustrated"? Maybe the seller doesn't need to sell, maybe the seller is delusional. So what. Look for another apt. The seller has any right to price it where he/she wants to price it. If you don't like it, ignore it!

every right

yes...its true...we all have the right to act like jerks as long as we don't break the law but...

wouldn't everything work better if we didn't?

Hold on, cc, why is the seller a "jerk?" It's the seller's apartment. They can do what they want! Get over yourself.

Why is listing this apartment at $1.125 acting like a jerk? A. He is entitled to try and get the highest price he can for this apartment - you would do the same. B. You have no idea what 7P is in contract for to even assume that this is priced incorrectly. C. 4P already seems to be priced well below similar recent comps. How again is this guy a jerk?

Unbelieveable.

well...first of all, is this really a convertible 3? secondly, he's asking 12.5% more than the listing price on the same apartment (which we can surmise actually sold for something less). so, he assumes that a prospective buyer is either too stupid to know about this other sale or somehow magically won't care? my definition of a jerk.

he is entitled to do whatever he wants. so am i. so are you.

tick, tick, tick

soon Summer is here

the seller seems not to know the golden rule "Sell in May and go away"

Summer will be dead - if seller is in trouble he/she will be forced to hit any bid if there is one in 1 or 2 months - that will be not a nice way to get rid off the aptm.

Many buyers don't have a clue as to other apt sale prices in the same building. Thru the transparency of Streeteasy I've noticed unbelieveable differences in sales in my building and others. For example, the same apt. can sell for a much higher price on a much lower floor. I live in a new building so apts layouts and finishes are basically the same on each floor.

but the agents sure as hell do (or should).

Well - 1. 4P is not the same apartment as 7P - there may be crucial differences that we are not aware of by merely looking at the listings. 2. Asking 12.5% more than "listing" on a different apartment is irrelevant - a listing is not a comp (a sale is), and to assume that 7P went below list is a leap of faith - for all we know, it went for 12.5% above list. 3. We don't know what 7P's motiviation was. Even if it did go for list or below, perhaps he needed a quick sale. Why should 4P have to put his apartment on the market for the same price if he doesn't have the same motivation?

Stop taking every listing so personally and try to show some objectivity.

you were doing fine until point #2. how much do you want to bet that it didn't go for more?

joepa - i would make that bet too. in ref to your #2, 7P was priced 13% higher back in october and endured 2 price cuts before the market really started turning. it was a very nice apartment that definitely could be a 3BR if need be. there was decent space with a window in the dining area. there would have to be some serious differences/upgrades in the other one for it to fetch more than 7P, imho.

I think, given the comps, there is a decent chance it went above list - though I haven't seen the place or done any due diligence to make a truly informed opinion. The point is - we don't know and, even if it turns out that your correct, your conclusion that he is a jerk still doesn't follow.

decent chance? one in ten...one in 50...one in a 1,000? come on, get real.

it was reduced to $999K, then still took about 6 weeks to get into contract. it may have gone for above list but i would guess those six weeks were not the time frame of a fierce bidding war. possible, but not very likely.

By the pictures it looks like 4P (the absurdly priced one) is in worse shape than 7P too.

Again - I have no idea what it went for, but 6 weeks is not a long time. Between reducing the price, staging an open-house(s), organizing showings, fielding offers, bidding, negotiating and contract review, that can easily take 6 weeks.

joepa, i don't understand why you think that the $1.4 numbers for 4P and 8P are comps. The apartments were listed at those prices, but didn't sell. That's not a comp, that's an aspiration.

I wasn't using those as comps, just points of interest. There are other comps in the building which do suggest prices above $1.2, though -- albeit they are different lines the square footage and footprints are similar.

points of interest? what the hell is that? like the top of the empire state building? give me a number. how much do you think it went for?

I don't want to get roped into defending this listing - my whole originial point was that, based on the given facts we know, to suggest that this listing is absurd or that the guy is a jerk for listing at this price is highly unfounded.

5N is only slightly smaller and sold for $990k last September, which was a whole different world.

I don't think the seller is necessarily a jerk, but many buyers do seem to find it insulting to be presented with blatant overpricing. At the very best, it's a very poor marketing strategy, although they may get lucky. I don't think there are that many sellers who'd list their apartments at this time just for fun, although i'm sure there are a few.

he/she is not a jerk. they are just pricing behind the curve instead of in front of it. in this market that usually leads to price cuts - unless you choose to accept the lowball offers that come in. a couple years ago people threw their apartments on the market with "make me move" prices. that ain't happening now. you mention that we "don't know the seller's motivation" - who would put their place on the market and inconvenience themselves with moving out half their crap and disappearing for open houses and showings unless they had some motivation to sell? this isn't a bidding war type of market. i think their price is at least 15% high.

Aboutready: It's interesting that you say "I don't think there are that many sellers who'd list their apartments at this time just for fun, although i'm sure there are a few." I put in a bid (although low-ball) for a 2/2 and the seller came back and said no thanks and that they are in no rush and want to get full asking price... surprised me!

that doesn't mean they are listing it for fun. they are just misguided about what they can get for it. do you have that listing's link?

ttp://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/379536-coop-330-east-70th-street-lenox-hill-new-york

thanks. that looks like a really nice apartment and seems to be fairly priced. i don't know if they will get that price but maybe 7-10% under. if you don't mind...what did you offer? they have only been on the market for 2 months so they are going to need to hear a lot more lowballs until they realize that no one is buying at ask in this market - if they buy at all.

The finishes are nice, but rooms a bit small. Second bedroom can't fit 2 kids, or queen sized bed. Living room doesn't sep well from dining area.

I didn't mean "for fun" literally. I have a friend who is a broker. He had a listing with accepted offers twice for around 1.8-2m. Both fell through. Now the listing is at 1.6, and he says his client is only getting offers in the 1.2-1.3 range, and soon will have to take one of them. Early on, the response would have been a big no, I don't need to sell immediately. Nine months later, it is no longer immediately. I mean that there is probably some true desire to sell now for most of those who list.

that's exactly why i said they will need a few more lowball offers to really get a gauge of what they could realistically sell for. two months in they are still hopeful of getting what the broker told them was a good listing price. one of the oldest clichés in real estate: Your First Offer Is Usually Your Best Offer.

from an article on the topic:

There’s an old real estate rule of thumb that the first offer you receive is usually the best one. I’ve run into this with several listings where the seller received an offer early on, made a stiff counteroffer back to the buyer and the buyer headed for the hills. In some cases, as much as 24 months and several price reductions later, another offer finally came in only to be significantly lower than the first buyers’ offer.

While your first offer may not be what you were hoping for, it is a good idea to consider several things when choosing how to respond to that offer. Length of time on the market, time of year, initial asking price compared to the price recommended by your agent, and current competition should all be taken into account when determining whether to accept, reject or counter the first offer you receive.

It may be tempting to hold out for a better price, especially in the first few weeks that your home is on the market when there is a high volume of showing activity. However, that activity typically wanes after about three weeks, at which point the buyers who have been waiting for “just the right house” will have already considered your property. Buyers rush to see new listings, and if it’s the best thing they have seen they will probably make an offer. Most of these buyers have been at it for a long time and know the values very well, in some cases understanding market realities in their price range even better than realtors who have been tracking a broad market. Therefore, an offer received in the first few weeks on the market is probably appropriate to current conditions and worth serious consideration. Comparing the offer to your realtor’s initial price recommendations can help you decide what action to take.

After the first several weeks, the activity that remains is buyers just entering the market. Since they are at the beginning of their house hunting, they generally have more time to look and are less motivated to act quickly. They are less educated about the market than those who have been shopping for a long time and will err on the side of caution when making their offers, especially in a buyer’s market. Consequently, offers will more likely be lower than early on.

Time on the market erodes value as well. The longer a house is listed for sale, the less interested buyers and Realtors are in the property. People will begin to wonder what is wrong with the property, and even if they like it will offer a lower price so they won’t lose money if they end up having to sell.

Be sure to consider the opportunity costs. While your first offer may be lower than you had hoped, every month you keep the property is another month you must pay mortgage, taxes, utilities, and insurance for a home you are hoping to leave. These costs can add up quickly and end up costing you more in the long run.
Time of year is another factor that can affect the offer. Your offer in March or April will most likely be much higher than in September or October. Sellers who were optimistic in the spring will be lowering their prices quickly to try and sell.

The bottom line is that you are never in a better position to get the best price for your home than when it is fresh on the market. Even if the offer and subsequent negotiations are less than you are hoping for, don’t kick yourself months or even years later wishing you had taken the offer. That real estate rule of thumb stays true: your first offer is usually your best.

sniper, i was responding apt1234's comment.

you are absolutely correct, the first couple of weeks can be critical. two times i've had apartments on the market that haven't sold. didn't need to sell, however, and took them off the market for at least 3 months. both times the apartments sold within a couple of days at a HIGHER asking (once at asking and once over), because i'd taken the time to make certain the place showed at it's optimal potential.

This market is even tougher, with more transparency. It really behooves all sellers to do some of their own research. Or, perhaps you could ask any potential broker to actually take you to see the three apartments that he/she thinks are the closest comps to yours, and why. That way you'd also get to know your broker a bit better.

Your first offer is NOT always your best offer. It is a complete myth. When I sold several years ago, my first offer was my WORST offer.

and my second offer was $50,000 less than my third offer, which is the one I accepted.

With regard to whether 7P sold at its last listed price or higher or lower: take a look at the "recent sales" function on Streeteasy. Take the last 30 sales on the Upper East Side for which there was listing. I'd say more than 95% have sold below the last listed price. I don't think I've seen one in 3 months which sold over the last listed price. That's because the market is going down. Sorry to state the obvious.

still waiting for odds from joepa above.

"Time on the market erodes value as well. The longer a house is listed for sale, the less interested buyers and Realtors are in the property. People will begin to wonder what is wrong with the property, and even if they like it will offer a lower price so they won’t lose money if they end up having to sell."

This is complete nonsense. When the listing has been listed for 6 months, you unlist it and then re-list it, re-setting the DOM to zero. DA DA: You have a freash listing!

alpine - go back in your cage.

Your First Offer Is USUALLY Your Best Offer. that is the cliche.

there are always exceptions to the rule and the fact that i even have to point that out to you is ridiculous.

it's a myth. It is not true. Realtors tell you that so that you will accept the offer and they can make their money quicker.

that may have been the case in a bull market, but in a bear market it likely holds true more often that any offer you get in the first two months will be better than the ones you get after you chop your price.

i keep wondering when the majority is going to get the fact that we are in free fall. other than the random movement upwards of the stock market, there is nothing but an endless string of bad, bad news. people are losing their jobs at a rate that we have never seen with no end in sight. the mass denial would actually be funny if the news weren't so bad.

not true columbia. Initial jobless claims have fallen for the second week in the row. There is plenty of good news, but the media refuses to cover it.

here's a fun link...open and press the green button. make sure the window is closed first

http://www.slate.com/id/2216238/

From CNN:

Initial jobless claims plunge
The number of people filing initial jobless claims drops 53,000 to 610,000. Continuing claims break record at 6 million.
Last Updated: April 16, 2009: 9:54 AM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Initial jobless claims plunged to 610,000 in the week ended April 11, reported the U.S. Department of Labor.

That's a decline of 53,000 from the prior week, which the government revised to 663,000.

Initial claims measure the number of people filing for unemployment benefits for the first time.

click the button

click the button

so 6 million out of work but great news....the rate of increase has dropped by 10%!? click the button

have you clicked yet?

Oh, Alpine, you really need to work on your analytical skills. Don't be a sheeple, look at the facts behind the numbers.

The Labor Department itself said these numbers are highly interpretive. There was the holiday week, and then there was a seasonal adjustment that usually occurs that they don't quite know how to deal with because there seems to be no seasonality to job layoffs right now. But because there is usually a large spike in unemployment claims during the spring holiday week, they adjusted the numbers down.

JoePa - senile like the Nittany Lions coach? There is no way 7P went over ask ( we will find out soon enough...I'll bet you a burger and a beer at Melons).
I find it highly doubtful that 4P will sell for more than 7P if they even close in the next 3 months...

Also Alpine, there is an enormous wave of layoffs coming in the public sector. As we write local governments are trying to make do with what is being given to them, and they're not finding it easy. If jobs are not cuts, then salaries and benefits must be, so until another stimulus package is passed for the states (a tough sell right now, but maybe feasible in the future), expect to see more pain everywhere.

yep, my favorite public library employee is quitting and moving out of ny. she said that everybody is being laid off anyway at the nypl and she was the last one to be hired at her branch. sad to see her go :-(

also with so little real estate transactions there are a whole bunch of professions/businesses that are getting hammered. from real estate brokers to designers to furniture... how will real estate brokers pay their own mortgage within the next couple of years?

admin, not-so-funny that the brokers don't show up in the U3. as they are self-employed. Nor do the small business owners, the temporary workers, many of the illegals.

great point aboutready. the persistent drop in discretionary spending from these folks is not being accounted for yet. i expect many of them to either fill for bankruptcy or to live on survival mode till the econ improves (years from now).

Joepa - "I think, given the comps, there is a decent chance it went above list - though I haven't seen the place or done any due diligence to make a truly informed opinion."

Here's some research you can use so that you have a truly informed opinion-

Number of sales on the Upper East Side in the last 30 days closing at or below last listing price - 30
Number of sales on the Upper East Side in the last 30 days closing above last listing price - zero.

Let's see how many more people can possibly miss the point of my post.

i think the point of your post was to say that the seller is not a jerk...but, you based your argument on some other very arguable comments while making that point and that is what people are commenting on. i think you know that.

I said that I can't make a truly informed decision but, based on what I've seen, that there is a chance it went above list. I deserve to be attacked for that? So be it.

Joepa - come on, a Melons burger...we both win!! can someone post when we do get a final price?

12 weeks since last cut? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, NO. It didn't go above list. wanna try again joepa?

Did anyone go see 239 east 79th this weekend?

"From CNN:

Initial jobless claims plunge
The number of people filing initial jobless claims drops 53,000 to 610,000. Continuing claims break record at 6 million.
Last Updated: April 16, 2009: 9:54 AM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Initial jobless claims plunged to 610,000 in the week ended April 11, reported the U.S. Department of Labor.

That's a decline of 53,000 from the prior week, which the government revised to 663,000.

Initial claims measure the number of people filing for unemployment benefits for the first time. "

Uh, they're running out of people with jobs to lose, and you're pretending this is a GOOD thing?

In terms of the OP, this guy is going to be absolutely screwed when the 2nd ave construction moves in front of his door. He should drop the price right away to get in before this thing becomes impossible to sell.