Ghost buildings in FiDi and BPC

are they for rent maybe and we don't know? lots of no-fee craigslist listings for new unamed bldgs in the area.

currenttime - please do us all a favor and learn to use ACRIS before spreading rumors. Riverhouse is almost sold out and Visionaire has closed at least 80 units. Sponsor units in Millenium Tower probably sold out in early 07.

I can't speak about the Visionaire or Millenium Tower, but hvd is right on regarding the Riverhouse.

Are you so sure? There were supposed to be over 260 units in Riverhouse. Streeteasy lists over 150 sold but a fair number of those appear 2-3x in the sold column.

currenttime, are you simply saying that when you walk by the building seems hardly inhabited?

Isn't percent actually occupied, not percetn sold, relevant for Fannie and Freddie?

I live in the Millennium in BPC, everything for sale is re-sales.
The Visionaire is in the process of closing on apts as they are finished, I see alot of construction people in and out all day long.

yeah currentime your post is pretty silly. The buildings Riverhouse and Visionaire are over 50% sold and counting. Whatever is left are the non-view apartments or smaller sizes. i'm sure there are bargains to be had but it's far from the dire situation you describe.

HarlemNWCP - Fannie Mae has a pre-sold ratio requirement for condos, which has to be with number of units in contract. They also have a 51% owner occupancy ratio requirement. That in fact is really a "non-rental" ratio and has nothing to do with whether the units are physically occupied. (Try google this yourself). Think about it - how can Fannie Mae enforce a physical occupancy requirement without invasion of privacy?

And no, counting the number of windows that light up at night is not a reliable way to estimate physical occupancy ratio.

I found this:

https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/guides/ssg/annltrs/pdf/2008/0834.pdf

pg 9 covers the 51% owner occupancy rule

It seems that this applies only to buyers who do not plan to live in the property.

Fannie clarified what the requirement means:

http://realtytimes.com/rtpages/20090205_fanniemae.htm

Even foreclosed units put on sale by the lender is eligible to be counted towards the 51%. On the other hand, a unit physically occupied by a renter is not. That's why Fannie Mae is probably not interested in peeping into windows and counting lights :)

They must be hiring people to pretend they live in the visionaire and they go off to live somewhere else. and the closing people must be actors/actresses as well. oh, and the moving trucks with peoples stuff in it you saw almost everyday in jan when they finished the first wave of apartments.. also from central casting.
the people in the gym and pool also actors and actresses.
Is it 100% occupied- no so please don't make it worse with moronic information

LOL bubbles

So I think there are some seriously troubled developments in BPC and FiDi (Rector Square, Beaver, 20 Pine etc.) but the Riverhouse, 30 West and Visionaire are probably holding up the best. The Riverhouse is at least 75% sold from what I understand (I believe that includes apartments that are in contract) and there is plenty of activity in the building.

On the other hand, we were quite surprised yesterday when we noticed that most of the high-floor corner Hudson River view units (which I think are all 2 or 3BRs) at the Riverhouse were unoccupied (we only saw 1 that was). Don't know if they're just unoccupied or unsold as well, but I'm pretty sure if I owned one of those apartments, I would be living there right away :)

http://downtowny.blogspot.com

Unfortunately, we will be seeing more and more of these ghost buildings in all city neighborhoods.

"Another ghost is the William Beaver house"

I may finally get to fulfill my lifelong dream of opening a liquor store in that location.

the building really in the outhouse is wbh... the sales people do not even show up for the weekend open house any longer. at least in the other buildings they sales people are working their butts off

I did not check Acris. All I am saying is that those buildings look empty (not the Millenium), the Visionaire (of which I have an excellent view), William Beaver, and the Riverhouse.

do you have binoculars?

RE2009- No. My building is across the street. Visionaire is made of glass and you can clearly see that there is no furniture in all but two or three units. At night, it is always dark.

Downtown is in big trouble. They are not going to complete the World Trade Center will be under construction till 2037. http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE53F77N20090416

I wouldn't want to overpay to live in a construction zone. If you buy downtown, they should throw in a hard hat and a pair of earplugs!

I found this on the Visionaire website:

http://www.thevisionaire.com/main/press/ArchitectureWeek%201-17-09.pdf

'The Visionaire mixed-use residential high-rise (pictured above) recently opened in Battery Park City, New York City. Rafael Pelli of New Haven, Connecticut-based Pelli Clarke Pelli Architects designed the 35-story, 500,000-square-foot (46,000-square-meter) project, which houses 251 residences and also
includes 40,000 square feet (3,700 square meters) of office space and 4,000 square feet (370 square
meters) of ground-floor retail.'

Perhaps currenttime you're seeing office floors which are empty?

bubbles- visionaire 100% occupied? that's a lie.

sorry bubbles- misread your post

Currentime, you are wrong on the visionaire. I am not going to debate the details of why you are wrong. you are also wrong on the millennium. i am not going to speak re the others as i try to speak about things i don't know for certain. the fact you even mention the millennium proves you are just spuing (sp) random info.
btw- most of the units occupied currently at the visionaire are in the section. they are the lower floors and have the water view.

The Visionaire, according to the Visionaire website as listed by HarlemNWCP, has 251 residences. SE shows 65 recorded sales, with another 11 listed by the developer as sold (the most recent on 4/25, so it seems up to date), and 2 in contract. There are an additional 4 units listed as unavailable that may or may not close.

no, everyone is wrong about the visionaire. currentime knows best and he knows there are only two units occupied. part of the show to make you think there are people living there are packages being delivered via fed ex, ups ect. they are really putting on a good show!!!

A whole bunch of recorded closings at the visionaire is missing from Streeteasy data. SE recorded those sales under a rental building by error.

hvd, which one?

River Watch

11 more sales. Someone should tell SE. Those should be moved.

RE2009- why such nasty comments? I said specifically that Millenium does NOT look empty.

BUT RE 2009 I stand by my comments on the Visionaire, too bad we can't post pictures.

You can. Take some and post to flickr.

Go to the lobby tonight for 5 minutes or ask to see the pool/gym and then come back here and say the visionaire has 2-3 units occupied. Nasty comments because i have zero tolerance for people who speak of things they do not know

what's nice too is the make believe people that live there have make believe dogs and some have make believe kids.

I am actually quite curious about those pictures.

Is the Visionaire built for hardcore exhibitionists? Are all internal walls, ceilings, floors, appliances and equipments made of see-through glasses? That can explain how currenttime expects to be able to see furniture in residential units on all four sides of the building from his place across the street.

Or did currenttime meant to write “across the streets” as in he owns/rents apartments facing multiple sides of the Visionaire?

Or did he fly around the building in a helicopter?

Is he Spiderman?

I assume that currenttime has a reason for writing that. RE2009 is adamant. ??

Maybe <100 units are sold out of 251 total and currenttime is not facing any of these? Would that qualify as a "ghost building"?

It sounds like the greatest risk to a building is the default of a sponsor that still holds a majority of the units. This makes selling ANY of the units difficult. So long as the sponsor is solvent, low occupancy may not matter as much?

Okay, kids, we're no in high school anymore. Break it up, and move one!

got cut:

Maybe <100 out of a total 251 units are sold and currenttime is not facing the occupied ones. Does this qualify as a "ghost building"?

not only can you see thru the entire building of the visionaire but to live there you have to promise to walk around naked all the time. no wonder so few people are willing to live there

bubbles, that might really appeal to a certain type.

That must be it. 80 families closed but only 2-3 mustered up enough courage to move in.

i am excited to see the pictures!