building at 500 Fourth Avenue

From Brownstoner:

"500 Fourth Avenue Sees Most Spring Contracts"

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2009/07/400_fourth_aven.php

http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/the-tallest-green-condo-shoots

Is this place doing FHA or is the 10% off the only incentive? Are people really sinking 20% down into these inflated prices?

I think they are trying to do FHA assuming they become qualified. I overheard that the "preferred" lender is HUD approved and is ready to take on FHA loans.

500 4th ave puts all other developments on 4th to shame . this property will only appreciate in value as the area continues to improve,it is centrally located to the best brooklyn has to offer .get in now, the prices are right so pick the apartment you want and go for it.

Jesomma: how did u know the price is right? U went to that tv show? Real eastate won't get better untill economy goes back to normal. Maybe some positive signs there but ppl still wonder

Jsomma are you a 500 sales agent? Glad to hear you think that the price is right when most think that they are over priced. I still think that the economy will keep buyers at bay.

jsomma, nonsense is strictly prohibited on this site. please read the streeteasy rules and regulations before posting again. thanks.

let's give him a break guys. jsomma - looks like you decided to go through and sign a contract. congrats and best of luck.

jsomma is my alias my real name is bob barker and yes the price is right,come on down.

They do FHAs as I just requested disclosure from the Fairmont guy and they are a HUD Direct Endorsement lender. FHAs are closing on 50% according to them which is double the stated 25% rate for conventionals.

jsomma's comments were seriously less egregious than other strings where people are eviscerated as a shill (points to nevets' links for people's viewing pleasure), so while probably a bit overly optimistic at best, let us try to keep this board from devolving to an iRage trolling forum. Besides, if he was one of the sales agents, he would have told us that his relatives were thinking about buying there because it was such a great deal (I must have heard that 4 - 5 times from them so far)

The area "may" get better over time, especially with all the new buildings going up, but one thing I have found is that the prices @ 500 in comparison to most of the other new developments around the area, are comparable if not lower if they come thru with all the finishes and amenities the are hawking. The only place I have seen for significantly less is the Bisney at the corner of 17th & 4th, and the 2 places are just too different in scale & potential to compare side by side. Still overpriced & unwilling to engage in the dreaded "N" word (negotiate btw) with buyers, which has helped other buildings fill up? absolutely, but as long as sales keep trickling in - they have no incentive to soften their position. Let's see what happens after the alleged end of 10% off 2 days from now.

August 1, and they have removed the "early bird special" from internet sales. So who will be left catching the "worm"? I am guessing that they will negotiate back down to.......the original 10% off. So it will be slow and steady as it goes.

Well yes early bird had ended and the 10% off sales add on the website is gone, but maybe now they will consider negotiations and face the reality that 10% off is just not enough to spur sales. 156 units and only 18 in contract since it went on the market it will take more incentives and better price to make better sales or at least attract more potential buyers. Maybe we will see a new offer posted soon like 20% off!!!!!

My guess is now or soon enough they will accept off-price bids 10% or lower and be more open to negotiation. If anyone goes to an open house, please let us know if you sense a change in attitude.

freewilly thanks for the encouragement it has been a long tedious drawn out decision but i love the apartment i selected.i had major reservations in moving to 4th ave but i feel i made the right decision based on price and location .i hope you get the apartment you want for a great price, good luck and i hope we will be neighbors

Interesting development / update. If you have been 'on the fence' for a while with a unit reserved, warning - there is a report of the sponsor pulling the reservation totally and putting the unit back on the market without giving a final warning/time to think. Also, 10% earlybird (a.k.a. summer special) is literally over as of 7/31; the price goes back to the full list price with no negotiation. I really have no idea what they are thinking at this point. Any ideas or anyone other insight on this?

Well as you can see there have been no sales posted within the last 2 weeks, so I'm not sure how removing the 10% early bird and their continued stubbornness with no negotiations will benefit sales! Would love to hear from anyone who has been to a recent open house.

They may be responding to the uptick in the real estate market... the economy... etc. The headlines last week of Obama saying that the economy is turning around. I am guessing that they are holding out??

Yes. Economy is getting back from bottom. But the ture is this building remains 85% units unsold.

Agreed, it does remain highly unsold even with 10% off and removing that hardly offers more incentive for prospective new purchasers. One slightly positive report and it emboldens their position but while the housing/economic situation was in the tank, there is no give. It seems to be a one way street with this developer and they expect us to hope that it is not a dead end street and take their word for it that it is not. Interestingly enough, the agent now states there are 30 units in contract but their own site lists 16 and there are 18 listed here. Anyone have another source to check this?

Well I always find that the sales agent always say that there are so many more units in contract then the 18 that are posted here. They have always been claiming a larger number of units in contract then posted here. I find it kind of strange that they don't post all the units that are in contract not only to make their statement more creditable, but to give buyers the security they want with the knowlage that sales are going well. After all they are sales people, should we believe anything they say?

No. Especially that big hairspary woman!

Since they have plenty of time before C of O, they will continue to be stubborn. Once they have no choice to get it, they will have no choice but to dump the rest of the units at 20% off.

Anyone going to the open house today?

realbroker

156 units, 61,000,000 construction loan. Comes out to $391,000/unit.

OUCH...

Just wanted to know where you got this figure. Thanks!

wow 20 more in contract!

Does this mean that they will actually close soon? 40 in contract, 2 sold already. The lendor needs 30% sold to fund, right?

Okay, after taking a second look at the Streeteasy listing for 500 it looks like they have made a mistake and have duplicated the information they posted twice, and that explains the doubling of the units in contracts from 20 to 40 that happened last night. Also, it says 500 has 196 units available, but the building only has 156 units.

So, what's going on with this building now? Is the developer budging on price? Has anyone been able to negotiate beyond 10%? Is construction almost complete?

how far along is this building? when i went to an open house (months ago), they told me it should be ready by september or october. is it close?

Hi I was told late November

no, they're not even close to finish. Maybe next year

We've been looking at 500 Fourth for a couple of months now. Quality is the best in this building: floor plans, engineering and architecture in general, tile work, appliances, HVAC, doorman, cold storage, etc. The location has pluses and minuses. In a normal market this place would sell out, no problem, and the area would gentrify rapidly. Prices are high but not as high as they would be in a normal market environment. But this is not a normal market and they're not negotiating. It doesn't look like they'll meet their "late fall" deadline for completion of construction, TCO, closings. There's still plenty of construction work to do.

"Quality is the best in this building."

"The location has pluses and minuses."

"In a normal market this place would sell out, no problem, and the area would gentrify rapidly."

"Prices are high but not as high as they would be in a normal market environment."

Are you F#*king kidding me?

My understanding is that they're getting very close to the 25% level, at least in terms of units in contract. At 25% their financing company will allow closings. The current projected completion date is January, 2010.

park slope may be stroller central, but this is not in a good school district. you can find similar in better districts which is relevant for those with kids and for anyone's resale. the area itself is fine.

Hello winter, Question, to start closings, do you know if it is 25% in contract on the 118 units available or 25% overall (156 units)? I Should have asked at the open house when I went a few months ago.If its 118 units then yes I think its close, but if its 156 overall,it is a ways to go.

It should be 25% in contract out of the 156 units before closings can start. At least that was what I was lead to believe. Also they have been claiming for the longest time already that they are very close to the 25%. But 25% would be 39 apartments in contract out of the 156 units they have in the building. I still think that they are overpriced and this no neogations will not help get this building sold.

We were also told that the finance company, Fairmont Funding, will allow closings when 25% are sold, and we assumed that meant 25% out of the total 156 units. According to a Brooklyn Eagle article published 7-2-09 they had already sold 20% by that time. They claim they are getting very close to 25% now. Can someone explain why all 156 units are not available? Could some of the units that Streeteasy does not list as available also be in contract or some pre-contract stage of negotiation? As for price, compared to the Elan or the Argyle the prices are comparable but the quality of construction and the amenities are better. For instance, the HVAC system at 500 Fourth is state-of-the art central air and heat, whereas the Argyle and the Elan use clunky and space-wasting room units. 500 Fourth has a doorman, concierge and cold storage for fresh food deliveries. The Argyle and the Elan don't even have doormen. The only advantage to the Argyle and Elan is that they are located further up Fourth Ave., closer to the prime Slope. But I like the convenience of being close to the 9th St. Subway station. I do think that if we weren't in an historic recession that all these condos would sell quickly at the asking price. The Sponsor at 500 Fourth has the funding to weather the recession and wait for sales. I think that's why they're not willing to negotiate too much.

winter2 hi there new condo developments routinely hold units and release units as sales progress .its like testing their product out in the market .it is 25% of the 156 units and i dont think any other units are in contract that are not posted . i agree with everything you have said and thats why i jumped in early on .i saw an apartment i loved and went for it.i looked at other developments in the area and nothing came close to this .i would walk in and right out but 500 4th ave hit the mark and coming from the city in which i was priced out of nothing compared i saw garbage for 1,ooo,ooo. i agree that 500 4th would be selling better if not for this economy.however ,i think once the building
is complete sales will be better.we all want to buy as cheap as possible but if you compare whats out there 500 4th ave is competively priced

500 4th presents as a quality building and I am convinced the area will follow in terms of amenities and options…over time (hello..10 years!). However, the prices DO NOT reflect a realistic market for 2009 both in terms of what buyers are willing to pay for real estate and what they are paying for construction (which is down over 35%). Get real…

getting real is realizing that the area has what you need now and its nyc/bklyn you are not in las vegas ,so keep waiting

It looks like we'll be buying here so we hope jsomma is right. It is the best building for our needs and that's probably the best reason to buy. Compared to other offerings on the market, prices don't seem unreasonable. The only other building we saw that compares in quality is One Brooklyn Bridge Park, but that is not close to subways and it is plagued with financial problems. Common charges and taxes are much higher there, too. If you're trying to time the market, the S&P/Case-Shiller Home Price Indices are worth keeping an eye on. The Case Shiller Index for non-seasonally adjusted New York City condo prices seemed to be bottoming in June, with a slight rise in July, suggesting that prices may not drop further. Prices in other major cities bottomed even earlier this year. But unemployment continues to rise in NYC above national levels. Anyone have a crystal ball?

No crystal ball... You might wait for another drop in the market but it seems like the NY market was not effected as much anyway. Either way, if you wait, you might save a little more but right now, interest rates are pretty low so you might wait for a better price only to find the interest rate has changed. No one can tell you which way to go... not the 'buyers' or the 'waiters'. Either group might be right. But one thing you don't need a crystal ball for is the quality of the building.

50 yards down the street is another large development. thene theres also 599 4th (bisney view) which is a smaller new construction development. I went to see both last weekend. bisney view sponsor is giving a 15% discount from current ask if you buy now. i see large decreases coming from this area in the near future

there will be large discounts only on developments that just dont cut it.the bisney could be giving those units away and some of us would just not want them . 500 4th ave might be some what negotiable in the future but basically they will wait for their buyers

Thanks RalphTV, look forward to meeting you when we move in. Marco_m: regarding the Bisney, we didn't want to live so close to the Expressway.

What's next? Rentals? Auction???

Have you seen your new neighbor at 574? You guys are doomed, fringe Brooklyn is about to drop like a rock.

What's next? Only time will tell, but if things continue the way they've been going, they will continue to sell units at a slow rate for another few months until construction is complete, they get their TCO, and 25% of the units are sold. And then the rate of sales will increase because not only will financing be available, but the apartments will be ready for immediate occupancy. But prices will be even less negotiable at that point than they are now.

Did prices change or is that my imagination?

You think they went up? Do you have any specific details?

pricing looks the same

Prices look the same. I think everyone is wishing for a price drop. Soon it will be one year that it went on the market and they haven really budged on price.

My husband and I looked at 500 Fourth Avenue at the open house yesterday. The building is still unfinished, although we were told that move-in would be this spring. I know that the original move-in for tenants had been for the fall '09 -- so what happened to all those who bought apartments in this building when the opening was pushed back? And to those who had already bought apartments, how was it to deal with the changes? We're just at the beginning stages of looking to purchase an apartment, and we'd appreciate any feedback. We loved the finishes of 500 Fourth Avenue, the kitchen and baths, layouts, as well as amenities -- the building itself feels like exactly what we'd want. However we have concerns about location and also that it still looks unfinished despite its imminent opening.

now that the Gowanus Canal has been named a Superfund site by EPA, there maybe more issues in getting mortgages for these condos. you'll be only 1 1/2 block away. Toll Brothers just pulled out from purchasing multiple parcels of land in the area due to the status.

You're closer to the canal if you're on Smith and Sackett (or possibly even 5th and Union). The building is 3 avenues away from the canal.

One of the risks of buying new before construction is complete is that the move-in date could get delayed. That's one reason you should get a discount on price relative to what the units would sell for upon completion. Most of the early buyers did get a discount. Whether they eliminate the discount when the building is completed remains to be seen. We felt the same way as you, the building is beautiful, but the location is a concern. We decided we liked the access to the subway and we're confident the area will develop.

Considering that they're still only 25% sold, shouldn't the "early buyer" discount still be in effect?

I think it may be.

we went to the open house this weekend and are putting in an offer soon. Any info on how much they are flexible on? 10%? also will they cover cc?

Don't know about now but when we put in our bid, which was in September, the party line was not a dime under 10% off. They probably won't cover cc but the cc will be very low and with the tax abatement, the monthly carrying charges will be extremely reasonable.

I was refering to closing costs :) we put in an offer and are signing next week!

Hi Anne1234 - Did they accept your offer? Do you mind sharing? (i.e. 10% less, covering portion of closing)?

we agreed to a little less than 5% off. But I think it was worth it (higher floor, terrace). I think they will negotiate a bit more on lower floors. They will also cover SOME closing costs, but not close to all.

could it be? the first tco? any experts want to weigh in?

http://a810-cofo.nyc.gov/cofo/B/301/872000/301872490-01.PDF

I have been in contract for a while and my closing date is finally set. Now I am told that because the building is new construction and less than 50% sold, I have to get an FHA loan regardless of how much I put down. I have put down 20% and have excellent credit, and the thought of having to buy mortgage insurance now is such an expensive and unnecessary turn-off that I might pull out altogether. Is anyone else having this problem? Is there a way aroung this that won't involve an ARM?

I am having the same exact issue. I've been doing some research and calling a few other places. So far everyone has to get back to me because of the "unfortunate" situation of buying into a new building. Seriously, they should do something about the mortgage insurance for us few that have been waiting forever and was told upon signing they had a prefered lender in place that can work within a building that did not need to be 50% sold to close and still aquire a regular mortgage. Now there is a new prefered lender and all they have to offer is the FHA or, if we can wait, eventually, we can get a regular conventional loan. If I new that back then, and the fact I waited all this time ,I would have looked elswhere.

The problem is that a lot of these regulations have been changing over the last couple years. It would have been nice to have been notified. FHA guidelines that went into affect in February require 50% presale, the same that FNMA and Freddie Mac use. So, I'm surprised even FHA loans can be issued. The rate of the up front MI also increased, which makes matters worse. Monthly MI charges should not apply after 22% equity is achieved.

http://www.hud.gov/offices/adm/hudclips/letters/mortgagee/files/09-46bml.pdf

I still plan on going forward with the sale as I prefer to move in now, rather than later.

I am about to go into contract ( after I send in the 10% downpayment) and just read your comments about the difficulty and extra expense involved in getting a mortgage, due to new construction/ less than 50% sold issue. Yicks! - I love the building but am concerned. I am going to see a mortgage broker tomorrow so I am very happy that I am more informed after reading your comments-thanks! I still have a few days before i have to send in my down payment and would very much like to move forward but if it it really difficult and involves a lot more money to get a loan....hmmmm????

Glad to hear I'm not the only one! After many phone calls, I was assured they are working on it and expect it to be resolved soon. I am committed to this building, assuming they work this out. As far as I'm concerned, investing in this building, given its quality and neighborhood, is win-win. That said, I'm not going to wait forever and an firmly opposed to an FHA loan. So now I wait. I hope to meet all of you in the building, assuming this is straightened out!

Thanks Rick and everyone else....I'm glad to find a lively and informative conversation here. I am off to talk to my mortgage broker to see if he offers any insight. I also love the building and would like to see things work out! But I am holding out a couple of days before I send in my deposit , just in case things look too difficult . I have been told that the development groups pockets are very BIG so I should not be worried about financial issues ( ex- common charges skyrocketing, or the financial integrity of the building).

We've all had to jump through a lot of hoops to close, but closing won't be the end of it. One of the problems with new construction is that the owners don't control the board. The sponsor appoints a managing company that manages the building however they like, with no input from the owner occupants. But as in many other situations, we can seize a little control over our destiny if we work together and support one another. Towards this end, I hope we will be having owner occupant meetings to discuss our common concerns once we all get settled in.

Has anyone bought at 500 Fourth recently? If so, did they negotiate with you? I am being told they only offer 1-2% discounts off of ask.

blackmandF 1-2% lol.There is no shot i woudl buythere without them negotiating about 10-15% but that's just me.

They are currently offering an $8000 incentive. However, any additional discounts are definitely under 5%

Why would people be buying in this area? Did someone convince you it was Park Slope?

Where is the entrance for ambulances at this hospital? Major design flaw.

I have noticed that they have increased the common charges by $100-$120 on the remainder of units left on the market.I think they should have lowered the sales price instead to move these apartments.I have the sales sheet from when I visited an open house about 9 months ago and there is definitely a huge increase on the common charges....very disappointed.

So what you're saying is that you waited till there were only a few left to sell in the hope that the developer would lower prices and now you're diaappointed because they aren't. I hope you weren't fooled by all the streeteasy trolls like Marco_M who tried to drive prices down with their constant drumbeat of negativity about this building.

500fourthave
about 2 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse So what you're saying is that you waited till there were only a few left to sell in the hope that the developer would lower prices and now you're diaappointed because they aren't. I hope you weren't fooled by all the streeteasy trolls like Marco_M who tried to drive prices down with their constant drumbeat of negativity about this building.

hahahahahah@gisele0201.