This lack of apartment number thing

I stopped looking at their posting since they started doing that.
I am not surprised though. Just more lies, obfuscation, misrepresentations...

Share away, AR, share away! ;)

Aboutready, this lack of apt. number on listings also makes it impossible to guess-timate the views, or lack thereof. Emailing the broker only sometimes gives accurate information.

and they have recently reduced the number of pictures, sometimes only exterior shots, so you can't match them up. but i have the time and the inclination. i'm going to start a thread where I try to match new listings with prior ones. it's great to find some focus. please share if you match as well, and include info even if you only figure out via floorplans approximately what comps you can find. if they don't care about any accuracy, we can't be expected to be 100% accurate in our attempts.

"but I have the time and the inclination..."

aboutready, do you have a life? Do you have ANYTHING worthwhile going on in your life? You are not even considering buying an apartment. You are seriously a streeteasy addict with no buying prospects. Time for you to find something meaningful to do with your life. Since you have an abundancy of free time, why don't you volunteer at a soup kitchen or volunteer cleaning up parks?

You have set a new low to your life.

piss off.

Seriously, exit. Piss off.

What part of "hobby" don't you understand, exit2? It's an intellectually-fulfilling pursuit of knowledge and understanding.

It becomes more challenging and exciting when some of the subjects throw hurdles up (as these brokerages are clearly doing, to keep buyers uninformed and pliable).

exit2, go play in traffic

As opposed to Exit, whose decidedly unfulfilling passtime is just to stalk AboutReady on streeteasy. Does he do anything else with his time? I don't think so.

He comes on streeteasy to attack people for spending time on streeteasy. Loser.

nothing like wasting time scolding other people about wasting their time.

"I wonder if the titans of the real estate industry realize that this just makes an intrepid individual like me work harder for the info."

That's the idea of it. The RE industry does not want your job to be easy.

Long time observer here, so people without lives:
aboutready
nyc10022 - worst offender
alpine
jasonkyle
stevejhx
rufus

mbetc. piss off.

Back to the topic, it is interesting but not surprising. When your realize that greater flow of information is damaging your business, you try to control the information any way you can. The internet has managed to destroy a lot of business models. I give them credit for holding out this long, but the end is nigh.

I for one, appreciate the active posters. Its only recently that I discovered this section of the site and having the context by the posters above makes it much more informative and enjoyable...

me pissing off doesn't change you having nothing to do but post post post post some of the silliest waste of times

i have often wondered why they supply any info to SE. I guess they feel they have to be represented here but hope that less people check listings. On the other hand, if they used this info to their advantage, it could help particularly in convincing sellers to reduce asking prices. Of course, it ruins their buy side business almost completely.

cc, the evidence of price declines is pushing them to the edge. i don't know when you last bought, but i remember in 2000 trying to use dial-up internet to select apartments i wanted to see. awful pictures, extreeeeemely slow, floorplans missing. my broker and i would go through the list and he would pull up each property in his listing system one at a time. no info, well that says nothing, why do they bother. we saw some real crap (he specializes in downtown, and i neither wanted to change brokers nor expected him to preview the UES properties that I wanted to have a look at. he would ask other brokers for leads, and their descriptions were laughable). as prices rose people they were willing to provide more information, speed the sales along. now they want just the opposite, but eliminating the information completely would just be too much of a red flag.

mbetc, so basically anyone who posts frequently is an "offender"? There's this handy device called the ignore button. I suggest you employ it if how others spend their time wrinkles your undies so much.

"piss off"

I haven't heard that saying since my Grandmother said it then said, "Pardon my French."

You're a relic, aboutready. Time to join a gardening club.

exit2, piss off.

actually you'll be seeing me a lot less since we are (hopefully) done with real estate for awhile. and my poor stalker got herself banned and her account shut down by streeteasy for over-utilizing her bigotry while posting. i would be wary of any um "new" posters who come on here who are um... "long term observers".

jasonkyle, do come back once in awhile, just for s&gs. you make me laugh. yes, "new" posters with "old" agendas appear with some frequency.

As I said in a previous thread, the major brokerages look like the major record labels did not long ago, and I expect a similar fate.

Will any of them smarten up and figure out how to be iTunes (doubtful), will it be an outsider like Noah (soon to be an outsider, as I saw him mention his planned exit from Halstead), Burkhardt or Michael/West81st with a new model, or will brokerage forever shrink as most buyers and many sellers forsake them as so many of us already have? It's actually a rhetorical question for me as I expect the industry as a whole to contract, a few alternatives to pop up, and a whole lot of people to go without.

aboutready, I like the idea of a thread that "outs" disguised properties. Add me to the chorus of piss offs.

JasonKyle, what did I miss? Did you buy?
If you did, I'm excited for you, now you get to decorate!

Exit2 why don't you stop criticizing others and go out and do some volenteer work yourself...and take mbetc with you. I haven't seen you add anything constructive to the conversation. As a relatively new observer I appreciate the insights and info provided by aboutready and others. Keep it coming!

Aboutready's posts are incredibly intelligent, well written and extremely valuable to this community. So what if she spends a lot of time on Streeteasy? I spend all day at a job that is arguably a lot less interesting than what's going on here. Exit2/mbetc spends most of his day trying to tie his shoes. Come on big guy, you can do it! Make the ears, criss cross, into the bunny hole, pull them tight! Oh, it's ok, try it again. What, you have an appointment in 10 minutes to show that rental? Ok, Velcro sneakers will do for today. But try again tomorrow! I know you can do it!

And in case you didn’t notice, aboutready is addressing these sleazy broker attempts at obfuscation during an illiquid and declining market. Anyone interested enough in real estate to show up on these boards should care....a lot.

Sthrngirl and thedeuce, welcome to the board, if I haven't said hi already.

Exit2-- I also have a strong feeling that AR does have a life...quite a rich life. Her posts are smart and interesting and offer something more sophisticated than the average post. Have you ever thought that she's able to post here and still have the emotional energy and intelligence to do other things as well. Maybe you can't walk and chew gum at the same time, but others actually can post on SE AND still have a life.

Yeah...we spend all day poking around apartments and thinking up of new jokes involving beavers (I mean, 15 William) and we think AR is groovy.

-DT

http://downtowny.blogspot.com

To those of you who saluted, I salute you. A board like this has tremendous potential to be many things to many people. And hopefully to offer many things to many people.

I have never denied that for many reasons i have an abundance of time on my hands. I've chosen to take my knowledge of data and source interpretation, my desire to understand macroeconomics, my understanding of psychology, and my love of real estate, and to focus my excess energies here (data is everything, and many of the people here are fabulous, and remarkably full of information).

I am considering a number of topics for a book, and I'm doing research that often leads me to this board, both to share and to receive input. But even if that book never comes to fruition, i will have felt as if i have learned and gained by doing what i do here.

Oh My - if someone is willing to pursue truth and justice, why on earth would anyone belittle or discourage that?

Aboutready - to the extent you have the time and interest, keep doing your thing! (I love the economic news thread you and Riversider dilligently populate as well - I don't always have time to comment, but that thread is almost always floating near the top of the pile)

AR: I know you're taken, but I still think your sexy. I don't care about the smart or interesting stuff.

Aboutready IS groovy!

Sod off.
Bugger off.

Leave aboutready alone. It takes a lot of gall to admit that you have no life. Who cares that she she has no intention on purchasing yet spends hours and hours each day aimlessly posting on streeteasy.

If that's what makes her happy, that's fine. Not everyone fits into the mold of a normal person, exit 2.

My only concern is that she seems too obsessed with streeteasy opinions. It's not healthy because this is an anonymous forum and opinions are being solicited from completely anonymous people. Perhaps a college course on real estate would be more appropriate.

If this makes you happy, aboutready, then continue. It's not a popularity contest, as I'm sure you're used to being the one that got picked on in life.

"Not everyone fits into the mold of a normal person, exit 2"

read: "Not everyone feels perfectly comfortable overpaying for a depreciating asset, like I do."

actually, old buyers, as of high school i became one of the popular ones. and i do have a great life, wonderful family, and the like. also have good social network, not what i would like, but not bad. one nice thing about this recession is that people seem to have more time. i just don't work outside the home. as some of the other frequent posters can tell you, this doesn't take much time. what does take time is the comp analysis, and i find that fascinating so i do it for fun. not your idea of fun? so be it.

if you follow my posting, and i'm not sure why you would want to unless you're interested in the topic at hand, my opinions are not inflexible but they are not generally swayed by the posters here. i am in no need of self-affirmation. i just see the value, and enjoyment, in sharing information.

oh, and i took the NYU real estate course, years ago.

hahaha I agree with exit2--time to develop a real hobby.

"the titans of the real estate industry realize that this just makes an intrepid individual like me work harder for the info"

the titans of the RE industry are going out of biz as we speak, while having their 2nd and 1st hip replacement. they hate transparency and the web that brought it. it's a low skill job but that doesn't mean they are idiots. RE is the biggest asset class and the least studied, the least transparent (ok, that before CDOs lol!). that said, why do you work so hard on this hobby aboutready? it seems you are super serious about it.

Philatelics? Numismatics? Mycology?

you are, sadly, judged by your friends.

take a look at this new listing. just try to look at the floorplan. did they put all of their brokers in a room with a powerpoint presentation and take-home materials on how to obfuscate?

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/413188-condo-382-central-park-west-upper-west-side-new-york

That was in response to "real hobby".

Thanks evnyc :)

Oldbuyers and changedropper -- Aboutready started this thread with a proposition that I think appealed to many of us, whether we're in the market to buy, sell or just enjoy following the market. That was to research apartments listed in SE without numbers and share them. If you're not interested in that, may I suggest that you find another thread or log off and find your own hobby. I don't see the point in this unprovoked criticism of perfectly nice, reasonable people who bring so much to the discussion...unless the only way you have found to get attention is to go on the offensive. What losers. Back off and let the grown ups get back to the topic at hand.

admin, why not? and it doesn't take that much time. really. i've been on alot more recently because i became an insider and love data analysis. it just interests me. yesterday i spent over 4 hours putting together travel plans for an upcoming trip, and i'll spend at least as long at it today. i am very active at my daughter's school. i walk my husband to work each mornning (50 minute walk). i shower and get dressed and do the shopping. i meet with friends a couple of times a week. i go to the gym once or twice a day.

i read the news anyway to stay informed, as this is kind of like my Watergate hearings. i don't know if you are old enough to remember the women who spent days getting couch sores enthralled by those hearings. this train wreck angers and fascinates me, and the media and political maneuvering is better entertainment for me right now than reading a good book, which I hope none here would think to scorn me for.

"i walk my husband to work each mornning (50 minute walk)."

love it! nice life aboutready, congrats!!!

sure, this bubble will make sure we make history as the worst nut case after the tulip bubble. not easy to achieve and quite fascinating. i have tons of stories for my grand kids already. the whole thing makes a great setting for financial education (within the family at least).

It certainly has been a financial education for me. I can't tell if it's painful or enjoyable to follow the economic train wreck, but I do it anyway.

yep, as an stranger told me a year ago "read, learn, survive".

Hey, AR, your posts are great. Don't let the schmoes get ya down. There's a lot of nastiness on this board. Some idiots post here as a cheap way to release their bile. Ignore them.

Agree w/ you re: apt #s: reeks of desperation.

dwell, i greatly appreciated your alternative british offisms. Wouldn't want to get stale. Might have to rotate in a bugger or sod off here or there. i've been terribly busy the last couple of days, couldn't target the asshole brokerages, but as soon as I find a gite or two in the Vaucluse and the Dordogne, i'm on it.

And really, what would the world be without offisms?

But for best British effect, just say "right" in any of 300 different tones of voice. exit2 will never see the entrance again.

AR gym once or twice a DAY? God, when you do something, you really do it...

exit2 meet slumlord oldbuyers whose idea of a wife is someone you cheat on and kick in the gut as they do dishes and cooks dinner..... oldbuyers meet exit2 whose only source of income has dwindled down to 0 in the last 8 months and is a anti-semite too boot.... :)

FWIW... I've met aboutready... nice as can be and has got her child into a school which I can only dream to send my kids to.... so looks like the probability of your kids (exit2 and oldbuyers) working for aboutready's children are pretty high....

better be nice to her... and oh yeah... piss off your douchebags....

mimi, in the last eight years i've lost about 70 pounds but i've got another 20 to go. and if you like swine and wine, you've got to put in the time. i haven't been so good since i became an insider, but i'll find the resolve again shortly.

w67th, you're a doll, but my child would be looking for higher-quality labor.

Here's another one: wanker or "wankah". The BBC describes it as 'moderately offensive'.

AR: I'd never take the mickey with you, mate.

Look forward to meeting you on 5-21.

The brits toss around the c word for fun, also. think nothing of it. when my husband has british clients in the office he has actually had to say something when women are present. got to love those "proper" brits.

dwell, this will be a gathering for the ages, i look forward to meeting so many of you.

Gotta ta luv the ancient anglo saxons: f*** & c***

Ah yes, wanker - the perfect epithet, but so often misused in the US.
Tosser (tossah) is almost as good and it means the same thing.

here goes:

This is 9B (they're having an oh, it's on elliman's web page), $499k.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/413488-coop-137-east-28th-street-kips-bay-new-york

8B is listed as contract signed on 4/30 with listing price of $450k, after much chopping.
6B closed on 12/07 for $650k.

They actually increased the price here after taking it off the market. Apt. 3D, now listed at $650k

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/413480-coop-329-west-108th-street-manhattan-valley-new-york

compare and contrast, can see why you wouldn't want this muddying up the listing history:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/28934-coop-329-west-108th-st-manhattan-valley-new-york

12/08/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $570,000.
04/25/2006 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $729,000.
10/31/2006 Listing is no longer available.
08/29/2008 Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
08/29/2008 Price increased by 3% to $750,000.
12/11/2008 Price decreased by 4% to $720,000.
02/19/2009 Listing is no longer available.
02/27/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $675,000.
03/31/2009 Price decreased by 7% to $625,000.

This one says buy at a discount!! Except for the fact that is closed for $1.3m in 08/07. Apartment 11A, listed at $1.45m.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/413479-condo-10-west-end-avenue-lincoln-square-new-york

impossible to tell if it's the comp, but a unit that is the same size sold 03/08 for $2.35m. This one's listed at $3.5m.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/413470-coop-714-broadway-greenwich-village-new-york

3C, sold for $160k in 09/04. now listed at $279k.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/413469-coop-1264-amsterdam-avenue-morningside-heights-new-york

looks as though this one might be 5F. Even if it isn't should have similar sales history. still listing it at $1.8m. Those downtown brokers/sellers are so stubborn.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/413467-condo-655-sixth-avenue-chelsea-new-york

5F
07/11/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $1,400,000.
07/14/2007 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,800,000.
01/13/2008 Listing is no longer available.

This is the hyphen thing again, Sold for $835k in 05/05. Now listed at $950k.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/413433-condo-415-east-54th-street-sutton-place-new-york

Apartment 3R, sold for $550k in 11/05.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/413385-coop-242-west-72nd-street-lincoln-square-new-york

A bunch of the apartment numbers just got added for the open houses. Interesting.

I would bid another 5-10% lower from offer and tell the broker that you dont appreaciate the no apt number idea.. the extra effort has just cost the seller, let them know.

aboutready: This is really a great value add to this board and to streeteasy in general. Please keep it up. I have seen the actual practice of not putting numbers on the listing in recent days and it got me thinking more about the disintermediation occurring in NYC real estate via sites like streeteasy, curbed and property shark. If streeteasy is wise it will pick up on your work here and actually create another venue for its users to provide this kind of info, which it then could incorporate into its listings. I see analogies to open source software, where streeteasy continues to realize that its users are not just consumers but providers of information.

They should omit asking price and number of rooms, too. Then those little would-be buyer fools will have nothing to go by but the creative area calculestimations.

More transparency -- especially in terms of current photos and historical prices -- is a good thing, but information ain't brokerage. And in terms of disintermediation, a co-op ain't a flight to Paris. As an agent, I am now deluged with "buyers" who are attracted to apartments that seem cheap per square foot -- but they have no idea of value in terms of layout, condition, what renovations are and aren't possible.

I don't omit apartment numbers from my listings, but I would like to point out that the information sword cuts two ways, and it sometimes creates consumers who are buying the wrong thing because they think they're smarter.

I'll give you one current case in point, there have been multiple offers downtown on a one-bedroom that "presents" well in terms of photos and "prices" well in terms of historics that is far from the pick of the on-market crop, partly because it is on a block that is loud, loud, loud.

But your computer can't tell you that.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

No, Ali, but chances are that many brokers wouldn't tell you that either. The broker wants the deal done too, especially these days. Not everyone in your profession is as ethical as you are. And the loudness of the block can be found out if a buyer is willing to walk by the place at different times of day, which personally I do for rentals, much less a purchase.

Alan, "calculestimations" is my new favorite word.

Just providing a little free service here, Ali. Customers can use the information correctly or incorrectly. As they always have.

As for noise, I open windows, while the brokers scurry around behind me closing them. Annoying. Brokers don't like potential buyers to think of any negatives, even when a buyer is staring at a busy intersection from the 2nd floor of a building.

Ali -- Your points are well taken but people might always buy the wrong thing and no doubt more information would remedy the exact type of situation you are talking about. E.g reviews of mini-neighborhoods, etc. Brokers will always have value but obfuscation is not one of them.

I'll add my own anecdote about going around with my girlfriend to look at rentals when she had just moved here and I already knew the city well and kept quiet. I could tell several stories of the various brokers we went around with, but the most pertinent one is when the broker tried to pitch us on a place next to Webster Hall and denied any noise problem. Whoever took it would have been better off googling it then listening to the broker.

i recall looking out a window at a parking lot in Chelsea. the broker, with a straight face, said of course nothing will ever be built there.

Great thread, but I have a suggestion. Post the listing here, but also click the link to add a discussion about the property, where the discussion is just a link to the older listing. That way, if someone is looking at the place, they might come across this.

Also, if brokers are following their own listings in SE, and you made a mistake, they would have the opportunity to correct it in that same thread.

wishhouse, you're killing me here. but when i have a chance i'll do so.

oi wankers

how many brits on this board

silly old 'see you en tea' (spell it out!)

your havin a bubble

Enguurlaaaand

back at it. this apartment is owned by a Strokes band member, so i hate to pick on it, but he chose Corcoran. Now $899k.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/414114-coop-141-east-3rd-street-east-village-new-york

12/30/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $770,000.
08/02/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,199,000.
09/04/2008 Listing entered contract.
11/20/2008 Re-listed by Corcoran.
12/05/2008 Price decreased by 8% to $1,099,000.
01/12/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $999,000.
01/28/2009 Listing is no longer available.

This one was only a partial hide. Took off the apartment number but it's in the body of the listing. Why this would tempt anyone is beyond me. Currently $2.375m.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/414435-condo-16-west-19th-street-flatiron-new-york

03/28/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $2,975,000.
07/11/2008 Price decreased by 7% to $2,775,000.
12/28/2008 Delisted temporarily.

No way to tell this one. Following may very well be same unit, but it is the same size so it's a nice comparison. Currently listed for $1.3m.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/414322-condo-49-east-21st-street-flatiron-new-york

02/10/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,195,000.
11/15/2007 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,795,000.
06/18/2008 Prudential Elliman Listing sold. Last priced at $1,695,000.
06/18/2008 Previous Sale recorded for $1,590,000.
03/05/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $1,690,000.
03/12/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $1,595,000.
04/16/2009 Listing is no longer available.

ar:16 w 19 explanation for bizarre is easy - listed by kafka ;)

Aboutready, I noticed the Strokes apartment this weekend. I love it except for the placement of the second bathroom. Still, it's a good price. If this was a year from now I'd be seriously considering an offer, but for now I'm still trying to repair the down payment fund.

evnyc, and that second bedroom is a bit problematic. but you're right, as of here and now that's nicely priced, especially given the location.

your year of repairment will only be to your benefit, I think.

se10024, will the apartment morph into vermin? from louise philips forbes to kafka.