Reaching a conclusion that downtown is hideously overpriced...

As long as people are willing to pay those prices, it's obviously not "hideously overpriced".

Your inability to afford those prices doesn't make the area "overpriced".

your inability to make sense doesn't stop you from posting.

> As long as people are willing to pay those prices,

Except people aren't willing to pay those prices. Thats why sales volume fell off a cliff.
They obviously aren't willing to pay...

spq, all you need to find is one realistic seller. Try some offers at 25% off list. Those have worked...

you could also just wait until downtown declines catch up. patience is a virtue. however, if you really must buy now, then yes, the uppers provide much more space for the money. and yes, they have their positive attributes. your choice.

"Except people aren't willing to pay those prices. Thats why sales volume fell off a cliff. They obviously aren't willing to pay..."

And if the sellers are desperate enough, they'll drop their prices. Until then, the area is not "hideously overpriced".

So, NYCMatt, you don't think that 1500 to 2000 a sq ft is overpriced? Must be nice to live in your world. As for me, I am in the same boat as spqsydney, but I am still holding out for the downtown buildings to realize what the market will bear (get it...bear market) and not that the market will meet their wild expectations. Also, check out my other discussion called 7 Wall.

bump...75 Wall

if you want to live downtown on the cheap, then look on the Lower East Side.

Not sure if asking for 800 a sq ft is on the cheap, but 15 Broad street is already around that price. Great point alpine292

chunderboy, a place is only "overpriced" if it's out of YOUR price range.

If it's not out of other people's price range, and people are willing to pay the price, then it's clearly not "overpriced".

IMHO: since I live down there and see and have seen the traffic of open houses, hear conversations with the sales people take the same direction (too expensive) and see the listings on the these buildings stagnate, I can comfortably say that it is overpriced for most people looking.

NYCMatt and to your first point, it isn't out of my price range (was approved for a 1mm Mortgage in January), I would just be a fool to buy at these prices.

chunder, I'm sorry you actually need a mortgage to afford Downtown.

Keep reaching for the stars!

NYCMatt. Sad that a decent conversation turns into you being a keyboard tough guy speaking out of his azz. I am sure you are wealthy enough to buy anything and everything, that is why it makes so much sence you would be blogging when you could be out buying.

Apparently spelling skills are optional for qualifying for a million-dollar mortgage.

Hmmm, which word was spelling incorrectly? Now make sure it isn't a word that was intentionally spelling incorrectly little girl....take your time....

Which word was SPELLED incorrectly?

Re-read your post. I'm sure someone who qualifies for a million dollar mortgage should be able to spot the spelling error.

that was the joke you schmuck.

using spelling instead of spelled was the joke. i was making a joke with the word spelling. man...

Truce. The Spinners are on the radio right now. I'm having a '70s moment.

Truce brother.

Stone in Love?

Re: As long as people are willing to pay those prices, it's obviously not "hideously overpriced".

After all this time, it's STILL not obvious to some that ANY area in Manhattan where asking prices are 6,7,8,9 or even 10 times average income, versus historical norms of 3 or 4 times, or two or 3 times the historical rent multiples, and sales volume has slowed to a virtual trickle, remains locked in bubble price-infused denial? Thus hideously overpriced is accurate. spq, time is your friend, just chill out and wait, it's only a matter of time.....

On second thought, ignore my comment, I just remembered... Village/Chelsea/Flatiron is different

West34
True That.

From what I can see, 1 bedrooms (on my list) in nice buildings in nice areas, (village, greenwich village, west side, lincoln square), with very good amenities (swimming pool, gym, concierge, doorman) are going into contract when the price hovers at just below $1,000 a foot. For nice buildings w/o these amenities, but with 24-hour doorman, well maintained, top neighborhoods, units seem to move once they are priced in low-9's or so. This is an unscientific observation based on tracking about 40-60 apartments over time. Of course these are asking, not closing, prices, so perhaps once units have been reduced by 15%-20%, I assume the seller will not go much lower, perhaps another a cosmetic 5%, depending on other units in the building. There's definitely a oil/water line between buildings that have cool amenities near transportation, and those that are more vanilla -- even in the same immediate area. Two bedrooms ask higher per square foot, by and large. Three bedrooms still command a premium. I do not know the financial district at all, and I have not followed Chelsea, Meatpacking, or the far East Side, where the numbers begin with a 4. I assume better bargains are to be had there, a 10-15 minute walk to subways where there is abundant supply. If buyers are becoming renters until prices go down, then perhaps sellers become landlords until prices firm. If you can rent (ok, maybe a big if) high enough to cover your monthly nut, pressure to sell is removed (unless you invested with Madoff and now need grocery money).

"I'll Be Around".

here's an example of the insanity. this is a second floor apartment. not much movement at 260 PAS, but 15 active listings and some highly priced rentals that don't seem poised to lease soon. somebody's going to have to sell here soon, and that will be interesting.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/374023-condo-260-park-ave-south-flatiron-new-york

03/20/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $1,650,000.
03/24/2006 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,970,000.
07/21/2006 Corcoran Listing sold. Last priced at $1,895,000.
07/21/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $1,840,000.
04/12/2007 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,499,000.
06/29/2007 Corcoran Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $2,450,000.
01/12/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,399,000.
04/25/2009 Listing is no longer available.

""Except people aren't willing to pay those prices. Thats why sales volume fell off a cliff. They obviously aren't willing to pay..."

And if the sellers are desperate enough, they'll drop their prices. Until then, the area is not "hideously overpriced"."

Thats completely backward.

If the price is above the market, it is overpriced. If it gets moved down, then its not longer (as) overpriced.

And, back to the original point. You said:

> As long as people are willing to pay those prices, it's obviously not "hideously overpriced".

If folks are not willing to pay the price, thats pretty darn good evidence it is absolutely overpriced.

As Yogi says, "nobody goes there anymore cuz it's too crowded"

Except in this case, no one is actually going there...

they're all hanging out in the gloriously uncrowded UES.

Wait, I thought we were talking about "going there" as in willing to pay pricing... but it wasn't my incorrect analogy.

Agreed, downtown is absolutely crowded these days. NYU is still in session.

I see, yes you are correct. Things are growing moldy down here, sales wise. As I posted earlier, there has been some movement at the Chelsea Merc, where there is more room to move down. downtown, almost every neighborhood, is horribly overpriced.

LOL...patience is really not one of my virtues and thanks for all who defended my comment. The proof is in the pudding - not much selling between $1 million and $2 million in prime downtown areas.

And NYCMatt, I can afford to pay the prices they are asking - just don't feel comfortable doing it, as I don't want my personal assets overly skewed towards real estate.

I have just found it interesting to look in another area. I always assumed I wouldn't like living uptown, but I am finding there are a lot of nice features to the area.

we're on the same page...

spqs, that's cool. always good to have more options.

SPQ, your approach sounds right on.

Time is on your side... prices are still decreasing, and RE markets don't bounce. You get L shaped recoveries. Your patience will be rewarded...

> I always assumed I wouldn't like living uptown, but I am finding there are a lot of nice features
> to the area.

I was in the same boat. Swore I'd never live (or go) above 23rd once, actually... now I realize how stupid that was. And its even stupider these days.

It depends on what you mean by "downtown" and what size and type of apartment you are looking for. If you are looking for a Classic 6 in the Village, there are as many Classic 6's on any just about any ONE BLOCK on West End Ave as in All of GV combined. Supply and demand: when supply is THAT limited, it doesn't take much demand to make prices high.

Of course, if supply of one type is limited, it means something else is overrepresented.... and is probably seeing significant drops.

Ultimately, medians are down all over the place, so clearly the demand isn't there overall...

u