SoHa118

they've closed about 45, but none since December. that would seem to indicate that they got some closed, and then financing dried up. how many units are there here?

Well, there are some for rent (only shows in SE) but the same question can be asked of just about everything in Harlem...other than the Fitzgerald i don't know of many that have cut prices, amazingly. I think as many have said in other threads its some times more economical to go bankrupt, perversely, and let the bank sell them.

Ohhhhh.... I feel TERRIBLE for people who bought there--or anything in that neighborhood. Since many of them were artificially inflated in price, they are bound to take a magnificent hit...if they already haven't. Many of my younger friends bought in the area, and some of them are ready to call their real estate agents and tell them off for recommending the area.

right...because prices would be up by so much if they had bought places of the same size for the same price...where exactly? Not in Manhattan anywhere.

nyc212, not only will they take the hit, they may be stuck. many of them can't sell except for an all cash deal. some who bought early are doing OK, at least no worse than others who bought new development more recently.

jason, the ones for rent may be ones that were bought. have you taken a look at the listings?

hold the presses, the Lenox Grand has actually closed three units. that development has cut fairly seriously, as has Rhapsody on Fifth I believe.

I am going this weekend, I will let you know.

Yes, Lenox and rhapsody have sold by cutting drastically (below reduced asking even.

I love that NYC212's friends were forced, by Dick Cheney under torture, to buy in Harlem. Forced! Their brokers MADE them.

I saw Soha118. It is much nicer than other condos I saw in Harlem. I saw 2 units, both with big terraces. If you like an altar to the kitchen in the middle of your entertaining space, these offers one. The windows are huge, which makes me wonder about cleaning them.

Jason, I don't know why I am even dignifying this w/ a response, but I said "...some of them are ready to call their real estate agents and tell them off for recommending the area." How is your reading comnprehension? Recommend = force?

You should be grateful that I didn't call you a big fat toad who's ever been to the gym in his life, based on the COMPLETELY off-mark comments you made on another thread about gyms... You think you know everything, but...

I just realized--Jason lives in SoHa. Sorry I dissed your 'hood. Your investment will pay off eventually, and I am not being sarcastic.

I believe Jason rents, anyway.

I do rent. And I am off to the gym even as we speak! Talk to you all tomorrow.

I think anyone who buys anything named "SoHa" is enough of a rube (trying to play off Harlem as Soho) that they deserve what they get.

OTOH, I think anyone who bought in DUMBO should receive some sort of special tax credit for living in the best acronymed neighborhood in the city.

we saw the model 3br 2ba unit in Soha and the 3 br in Brownstone lane 2007 summer
In both cases the flooring had already bubbled up
The Soha unit had a column oddly placed in the middle of the living room
Given the prices at the time we gave up. ...of course Graceline and Kalahari emerged as even higher priced and were further surpassed by 2280 fdb among others, and Soha followed suit

Kalahari proudly informed me that they had had 21 price increases by last fall.

It is not surprising that this trend is reversing. Considering they got the land free or close to it, you would think these developers would have focused on turning the units out fast and moving to the next project so they could make more money in aggregate

Not to be in a greedy world........

30yrs, the best acronymed neighborhood in the city was named by faustus on this board: District of Overbuilt Underserviced Condo Housing Eyesores Between Astoria/Greenpoint (formerly known as Long Island City, which doesn't acronym well).

Alan: yes and no: I'm only counting one's which people actually use to any extent.

Perhaps they'd sell their remaining units if they got trees on the sidewalk, as their artist's sketch shows. The sidewalk there is very wide and glaring. I'm surprised the developer has neglected this.

The Kalahari has reduced prices. It's considerably less expensive now per sq foot than the SoHa 118. As a result, they are selling units. The SoHa, from my information, is not.

you are right bronxboy
Graceline may have reduced some prices but not by much.
Both Soha and Graceline are marketed by the same agent in chief -- Vie Wilson
From our experience with her, she lives on another planet.
Same comment re her co-marketing agent at Soha : Eric Mclendon

It took us multiple appointments with her to originally see Soha, and he was a no show twice.
When they finally showed us, attitude was definitely in the air -- wow, thanks for the favor.
Clearly, full price or more was the pitch.

Joe,

And they continue to flounder unsold and will do so especially as more new developments become available. Not too brilliant.

i don't think SoHa can sell. people can't get mortgages. nothing in contract, less than 50% sold. maybe if the lender allowed firesale prices they could get enough in contract to get mortgages written, but maybe the lender has other ideas.

In addition to the attitude of these brokers (which would be risible if it weren't so delusional)SoHa is a shabbily constructed building. I looked at several of the apartments before construction was fully completed with an eye to buying, and then more recently with an eye to renting. The developers cut corners everywhere they could. The Kalahari is marginally better construction, but more importantly, they have been closing at substantial discounts on their list prices (although I believe buyers at market rate prices are still going to find themselves underwater if they want or need to sell anytime soon).

cherrywood, I haven't been in those buildings. What sort of construction corner-cutting did you observe?

If you want quality and style check out 50 West....only one of the units for sale is a sponsor unit, besides the one in contract:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/50-west-127-street-new_york

i liked 50 West a great deal. aren't the common charges quite high, though?

aboutready - The common charge on the one bdrms is approx. $680 and taxes are approx. $170 per yr....abated for 25yrs. Not sure about the common charges or taxes on the larger units.

i was looking at the larger units. that doesn't seem so bad for the smaller one, with the 25 year abatement.

50 West looks nice but needs to drop to around $500 per square foot or less to be viable for anyone these days.

Sigh...but FDB is just soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much nicer than 127th and 5th.

was this building always partly lottery/affordable housing? because that's what it seems to be now. the lower priced units have a FDB address instead of 118th street.

most new developments in harlem have a lottery going on (soha included), i'd say almost anything built 2000 on in harlem has a lottery (not the white one in CPN for example). that's one of the reasons why buying in harlem is taking a leap of faith, you cannot possibly compete with sellers with such much lower basis if you need to sell...

also the maintenance of lottery winners is subsidized by those that bought mkt rate in soha118. think they weren't told this was so for the 1st assessment of the building... then anger ensued.

"i don't think SoHa can sell. people can't get mortgages. nothing in contract, less than 50% sold. "

actually, 50% of the building went for lottery prices ($240k for 1 bedrooms, i think $270k for 2 bedrooms), hence conforming. so it's more than 50% sold (if the rules don't demand market prices, that i don't know).

admin, i realized that. but i hadn't heard it about soha118. they only recently started closing the lottery winners, and it was significantly later than the other units.

i don't know about those rules either.

AR, seems we are talking about different buildings. soha's lottery was in mid 2006, closed much later than they said they would, but did finally (most lottery winners moved more than a year ago if i'm not mistaken). check ACRIS using the lot/block. you have the lottery winners there. actually, with that spying machine, i was able to spot a lottery winner that HELOC like there is no tomorrow... by the way, best yet is moving by end of the year, to the empty retail store (is a supermarket chain from long island).

that's back to my previous question to you regarding how did you get the info about how leverage buyers in harlem are.

I think admin is right, but I'm not sure. I know there pretty much nothing outside of the lottery apartments has sold at SoHa118 in the past year. Same can be said for Brownstone Lane II.

it's fairly well known. if you spend some time in the area, or talk to others who have, there are huge numbers of stories of people who aren't paying mortgages, underwater, unable to complete townhouse renovations that are stalled, purchasers of multi-family units who can't get sufficient rental rolls, etc. whether it's just that the people in that neighborhood are more likely to discuss such things i don't know. or that because it was an emerging market the price corrections are making these owners less able to sell without a short sale, i also don't know. i suspect it's a combination of factors. a broker once told me that the HELOC was literally essential to the success of the new condo development, which would indicate that the problem is much larger than just harlem. so maybe i was a bit inaccurate, it's a question of leverage combined with resale potential, combined with the fact that a very high percentage of harlem's sales have been new construction.

sorry i didn't see your earlier question.

there have recently been a number of sales under $300k here. perhaps earlier lottery winners were unable to close and they had to find new buyers.

"I know there pretty much nothing outside of the lottery apartments has sold at SoHa118 in the past year. Same can be said for Brownstone Lane II."

wow, didn't know that. i thought it was a success story (thanks to better timing than soha and nice backyards for those with kids, although 0 privacy).

AR, amazing!!! didn't hear anything at all about people not paying their mortgages. no surprise there, as with the mobility of nyc, why not living rent free for a couple of years and then move on? foreclosure moratoriums are all about that.

but i don't talk about that stuff much (like politics... homeownership is kind of tricky, always think i'm gonna be called "bitter renter" just for thinking prices will come down). i just spy on ACRIS from time to time, in the comfort of my own (rented) living room. saw some townhouses in harlem HELOC like there's no tomorrow at the verge of foreclosure. but that's it. the length of the foreclosure pipeline in nyc seems astonishingly long. a townhouse can be on default for YEARS before it's a REO, much more than the official 450 days. i guess if i could spy in a more efficient way with ACRIS, i wouldn't have these doubts regarding leverage and the like.

with the townhouses you have the added wrinkle that so many borrowed to do renovations. it does take years.

i wish only the best for harlem and its owners. but i think, like many other areas, it's going to be a bumpy ride. good to hear the grocery store is going in.

i think brownstone lane II did close almost every unit. i watched as the last townhouses sat and sat and finally closed. interesting penthouse available now in brownstone lane I.

I thought Soha and Brownstone were sold out with some resales still in progress and maybe a few units left
Interesting

We looked quite aggressively for townhouses, but other than the one we are buying it was hard to find one someone was willing to part with for a low price. The foreclosure ones -- we have tracked one that has now had 9 consecutive postponements of the auction.
Others, we went to bid on and the bank claimed them since the price was not high enough, and then has failed to sell it for months. A few did sell for really low prices but have tenants or are shells and even a year later I have seen no movement

On the other hand the number of people who look affluent and are walking around in the Sha/Morningside area keeps increasing and the place has been looking better

Not sure how many vacancies there are in Susan's court -- the new rental

the block we have bought on has 2 townhouses for sale, but all are renovated. block behind has 1 for sale (short sale) others renovated . block onthe other side has 1 for sale , all renovated. the next block over has 3 foreclosures pending and is much more mixed

so still quite a ways to go

propertyshark map shows that virtually nothing sold in Harlem in the 3rd quarter

totally feeling like a lemming for buying there

joe, you bought in a specialized market, and for the long-term, no? you had access to a good mortgage product, cheap rates, and bought something that they really AREN'T making any more of. It may be a rough few years, but your location insulates you from some of the ups and downs that may occur during an upper manhattan correction.

ignore sales and prices, and enjoy your home.

Indeed, AR, and we did get a fully renovated place for what shells were selling for until a few months ago , ahem , priced at, not selling at

if the brownstone market collapses so renaovated brownstones are going for 1 to 1.3 million, I will indeed feel stupid
some shells /major reno candidates near 106th and Manhattan did sell recently for 800k - 1 million , well below most of Harlem below 125th

joe, you should try to avoid the top of the market like a plague, but if you have a long-term (hopefully 10+ years) time frame you don't need to buy at the bottom. of course it's always nice when one manages to do so, but some with less patience/flexibility than me would like to get on with their lives and create their homes.

the question is whether this is still the top
we moved here in 1999 and it felt like it was topping -- at least the previous few years had unprecedented rise. We are now still pretty far up on that trajectory
On the other hand we are buying at a price that is neutral wrt current rents so that aspect of value is there and I am ready to be done with wasting time on this activity

"I am ready to be done with wasting time on this activity" which activity?

so you bought a townhouse i harlem in 1999? if so, that sounds like great timing to me, when yellow cabs didn't dare.

sorry admin
moved to NYC in 1999
decided not to buy since it looked like things were moving up too fast
watched as the rocket took off
just bought now in Harlem
wasting time on activity -- looking at housing

joe, it's not still the top. you know that. but after you pull the trigger, you can't beat yourself up. you have a renovated townhouse that presumably you like and can afford without discomfort. you have stable employment, and you're in a neighborhood you like.

And he got a great deal that priced in another leg down...

"just bought now in Harlem... wasting time on activity -- looking at housing"

omg... so the RE bug doesn't go away through buying? is there a cure then? btw, how did you get a great deal? found a seller in distress?

still helping 1 friend with a like purchase and monitoring conditions in the area till we actally close
thx

Wouldn't it be hysterically ironic if market prices fell below what the lottery "winners" paid?

hey Joedavis, we're still looking to buy in harlem, although not townhouses.

I hope we can find I place soon - I spend way too much time on Streeteasy.
Although its reading the message board mostly, not actually looking at apts.

30yrs: Prices falling below lottery are exactly what I am concerned about -- that is true replacement value given land at ~ 0. Most of the developers who got into that game got the land at near 0. So, in a sense that is the floor, unless no one wants to live in the area, in which case there is no floor.

Just saw on tumblr, Hans Futterman announced he has plans for this development back in summer. Wonder what that might be, and if it's before or after the completion of 2280 FDB?

"Wouldn't it be hysterically ironic if market prices fell below what the lottery "winners" paid?"

lol. if so, those that got into the lottery for a home and not an investment, still have their carrying costs (maintenance) subsidized by the market rate buyers. so not a bad deal still.

issue is, many of these lottery winners can only sell to people with income restrictions. with tighter credit, there should be a discount for those units (just cause of the shrinkage in the buyer's pool).

"still have their carrying costs (maintenance) subsidized by the market rate buyers" ... no, unless you mean some sort of vague, indirect effect.

"many of these lottery winners can only sell to people with income restrictions" ... I'm not aware of this arrangement in these programs; are you sure you're not thinking of HDFC buildings, which are entirely different? With these lottery programs, there's either no resale penalty (as in the earlier ones) or a profit-splitting with the City if sold too soon (as in the newer ones).

There are lots of coop units on the market in Harlem with income restrictions of 190K. Some are new and some are resales. I believe that the income restriction lasts until the HPD or HDC (or both) subsidy is paid off. The 50% flip tax (aka profit splitting with the city )on the units goes towards paying the subsidies. I"m pretty sure there's a 15 or 25 year limit on the subsidies, and the amount owed is set to decrease over time. But it all depends on the specific deal that the building has.

There are HDFC/HOD Condos with income restrictions as well. Mostly it's the older buildings which were taken "In Rem" (when the City did such a thing) and essentially sold the building to the tenants with financing. Many of these older HDFC Coops are ignoring not only income restrictions, but failing to pay HUGE amounts of money owed to HDFC from flip taxes (in many buildings the flip tax is actually supposed to be ...... 70% ........ with 40% going to the building and 30% going to HPD. But since it's not getting enforced, lots of buildings (which are made up of owners in the same boat - i.e. wanting to keep their profits) are basically saying FU to the City.

alanhart, "no, unless you mean some sort of vague, indirect effect." i'm talking about a very specific & direct subsidy.

both points i made were specific of soha though. arrangements regarding lotteries vary building by building. taxes and maintenance (assessments too) are heavily subsidized by mkt rate owners at soha. sorry, it's just the way it is. mkt rate buyers are not told this when buying. probably it is disclosed, i don't know, but it should be, but not everybody reads all the paperwork.

many found out this during the 1st assessment. not fun! but then, all lottery winners are told that their maintenance and taxes are subsidized big time but the suckers (ie: buyers at market prices).

"But since it's not getting enforced, lots of buildings (which are made up of owners in the same boat - i.e. wanting to keep their profits) are basically saying FU to the City."

boy! that doesn't seem so difficult to enforce. is it due to laziness? maybe that changes as the city looks everywhere for pennies.

It does seem pretty straightfoward. The city should have tough all along, now it will be much harder for the residents to raise that money. I guess that they could sue people for money that they are owed since the sales prices are a matter of public record.

Although it also seemed pretty straightforward to go after offshore tax havens...

"Although it also seemed pretty straightforward to go after offshore tax havens..."

not really, by definition the enforcement agents are foreign and it's not a transparent mkt.

Ah but you're not getting the nuance in my voice. If only we were talking in person.

I think something can be done although it will be difficult. And it look like it finally is starting after 8 years of doing absolutely nothing about the problem.

Does this building have parking?

no parking.

It was designed with parking ... they didn't wind up building it that way?

Also, notadmin, just to be perfectly clear regarding subsidy in the carrying costs, are you saying that CCs for identical units (i.e. same layout 3B & 4B) are substantially different? Can you provide examples?

> Also, notadmin, just to be perfectly clear regarding subsidy in the carrying costs, are you saying that CCs for identical units (i.e. same layout 3B & 4B) are substantially different? Can you provide examples?

Sure, during an open house i was playing the role of a person interested on the lottery (i also went after that playing the role of a mkt rate buyer) for a 2 bedroom. CC was a mere $87 i think (this was 2006/7 so # might have changed). The same 2 bedroom at market rate had a CC+tax of around $600 instead, so it's like having a 85% discount on carrying costs. I even have the brochures showing this (i'm such a hoarder!).

Now, the more worrisome for the market rate buyers is that assessments cannot be paid by lottery winners. So the cost doubles when lottery winners made up half of the building. These developments have been built really quickly during a bubble, so assessments are expected imho. Indeed, the 1st came already (even quicker than i would have anticipated for a brand new building).

> It was designed with parking ... they didn't wind up building it that way?

Who/when told you about the original design? Cause lottery applicants were told early 2006 that it wouldn't have parking. People complained saying "why manhattan court has parking and this one doesn't!?!?!" Michele used to be the broker for Soha118, i heard she promised mkt buyers a swimmingpool!?!?!? that wasn't in the plan honestly and obviously never happened.

Realtors can get away with anything during a bubble. People have this sense of urgency and simply don't reflect, don't ask for relevant information. When buying sth on Harlem, market rate buyers should ask directly about lottery types of subsidies, right? Well, I have no idea whether they asked and they are lied or whether they have no idea about the system.

Have to say, sometimes I wish I were a real buyers realtor. This manipulations anger me to the point at which I would do it for free!

It wasn't a broker.

I saw plans that called for a garage entrance that piggybacked on the one used and owned by the adjacent (totally unrelated) condo building (Brownstone Lane), to be operated by a net-lease parking operator. It was going to be connected by blowing through the basement-level party wall. Aside from that being a ludicrous arrangement in the first place, the existing one is self-park and self-managed.

sounds like an marketing gimmick to me, don't buy it. why on earth would owners on brownstone lane share their parking with Soha118?

Lottery winners are eligible for the restricted units. these units appear to fall under the category of special risks. These lottery winners get a subsidized common charge. According to the offering plan which is available by a freedom of information request from the AG's office, the lottery winners have to pay a common charge equalization fee when the unit is sold, meaning they have to pay the difference in their common charge fee and what the market rate common charge fee is for each month they have lived there up to $35k, this amount is adjusted every 5 years.

If you are a lottery winner and you sell within the first 5 years any profit goes back to HPD, after 5 years and for the next 10 years 1/10th the amount of the difference between the actual price and the subsidized price is subtracted from what appears to be a special mortgage.

As far as the buying process, you are initially lead to believe you can get special low financing and down payment/closing costs assistance through SONYMA, The sponsor was contacted and provided wrong information about how many apartments were owner occupied. After again contacting SONYMA , if it appears not enough units are sold and are owner occupied you might be steered towards a Fannie Mae or Chase product such as their Dreammaker program. These program may have a higher rate.

Sonyma only allows up to 10 mortgages under their program, no one has yet confirm how many sonyma mortgages have been taken out. 39 lottery apartments appear to have been available, if you are in the lottery process now, you might not be eligible for the special financing

No financing contingency in purchase contract, you are told you can get your deposit back if you don't qualify for financing, the problem is no one will give you a straight answer on what other financing options are available until after the contract is signed.

Affordable housing?? not so sure. Closing cost estimates range from 9-21K, no one will give a straight answer. If you qualify for down payment assistance you will still need to come up with the closing costs. Estimated 9500-plus 2400 attorney costs, plus bank and mortgage fees, plus working capital contributions (2mos common charges) plus replacement reserve fund, (1 mo common charge) plus aprrox 1700 tax abatement reimbursement, plus application fees for mortgage 400, plus approximately 2100 commitment on mortgage which will be refunded.

The real catch here is that you wont know what type of mortgage financing you will get until after a paid deposit and signed purchase contract. What if the financing is too much to handle? If it is you might be out $21000. The entire process seems questionable

That doesn't sound correct, you should be able to ask you bank in the project is approved and get rates etc. The sponsor should be asked to pay or split the city transfer fees, and you should also ask the sponsor to pay their own attorney fees.
Why do the special units get lower HOA fees, I thought the benefit wsa for a lower purchase price? Giving them lower HOA screws all the market rate owners even more.

> Why do the special units get lower HOA fees, I thought the benefit wsa for a lower purchase price? Giving them lower HOA screws all the market rate owners even more.

sure, the question for me is not why anybody would buy through the lottery, but why would anybody buy market rate in a building where they are subsidizing half of the units? there's no equal treatment on HOA fees nor assessments but also you can get undercut price-wise by a neighbor with an identical unit when it comes time to sell.

their break even price is so much lower than what mkt rate owners will have to sell for to recoup their mtg (this is true even when you add the full value of that hypothetical 2nd mtg at 100%, even though it goes down to $0 after 10 or 15 years). if i remember correctly, a mkt rate buyer for a 2 bedroom would pay $850k, a lottery winner less than $300k and the 2nd mtg (the $ that goes back to the city if he sells within the first 10 years) was about half that, around $150k. i might be mistaken, but having a neighbor that can sell for $450k and break even when you have to sell for $850k to break even is kind of nuts.

I still pretty much don't believe that there are subsidized CCs for lottery buyers, and less so that said subsidy would come directly from market-rate buyers' increased charges (...is that what's being suggested?).

But I find it particularly amazing that the CCs would be anything but low. Presumably the developers got free City land, and tax breaks, and the building is large enough to be efficient in terms of doormen, etc. And there's lots of retail, presumably subsidizing building operation costs.

Is there an underlying mortgage? And if so, why here and not at other new condos? Is the legal structure different here, e.g. condo within a coop, retail separated?

> I still pretty much don't believe that there are subsidized CCs for lottery buyers, and less so that said subsidy would come directly from market-rate buyers' increased charges (...is that what's being suggested?)

cannot blame you, hard to believe that people would put up with that if they knew. legend goes some mkt rate owners got to know about this during the 1st assessment. hard to believe too that they wouldn't be informed about this issue on proper documentation that they would have properly read and signed.

a disclosure that would sugar coat the "you sucker belong to the team that pays assessments"

Half of the units in this building are lottery? That seems very high. The CC also seem large in this building, maybe the CCs are subsidized. I am not completely sure how the lottery works, but the thought of getting undercut due to these is scary.

I would think most of the lottery units are 1 and 2 bedroom, not the larger or more desirable floorplans. Maybe I am wrong.

> I would think most of the lottery units are 1 and 2 bedroom, not the larger or more desirable floorplans.

yes, none of the top 2 floors had lottery units. but still on regular 2 bedrooms the discrepancy of pricing between mkt rate and lottery winners (both on pricing and CC) is so big that you wonder "why, oh why!?" only explanation i can think of is that the mkt buyers didn't know about the details regarding the lottery. i'm 100% sure they didn't know that only the mkt rate units would be paying assessments. imho they should be entitled to know about how costs are paid for and that the guy next door with exactly the same unit can sell for 1/2 the price to break even. brave people!

how do you know all of this? and why are your comments blocked?

does anyone know what percent of brownstone lane was lottery?? thanks!

Nope, this development has been out there for so long, wondering what is wrong and why the units are not selling.

saw this building, would not buy here, did not seem built well, wood floors in two of the units were already falling apart

After a lot of looking we are close to making a serious offer for a Soha apartment. I'd be interested in hearing from others who live there or know about the building. What's it like now? What's the percentage of renters vs. owner occupied?

Will08 - did you hear back from any building residents? I'd be curious to hear from actual residents (renters or owners) as well...

We saw unit 10G, but there were some serious issues with the unit. Floors were already going bad, cabinets loose etc, not sure how you show a 1.5mm place like that.

I'm surprised - how the heck would the cabinets come close. Sounds unlikely. Why would ms123 keep looking at apts even after s/he determined they were falling apart 3 months ago.

still overpriced.

Pawn go look at the floors and cabinets see for yourself buddy, we didn't go look again, we are wondering why prices have not dropped and how people could be buying at these levels.

Not many are, ms123. Units there have been on the market for over three years now despite dropping prices, but not to realistic levels yet.

Have any units been moving? Looks like they are holding prices steady.

This has been for sale for over 3 years! We are still on this topic!?!?!?

Yes, I think we are. I am wondering why they are not lowering prices, the developer must be blowing through cash like crazy.

Wow, they just substantially RAISED prices on the remaining apts. We had looke at 8A and weren't willing to pay $920,000 and now they want over a million? Maybe the Harlem market is stronger than I thought or are they just nuts.

the reason they are firm on their price is because the developer already break-even long time ago when they sold a bunch of affordable units. those affordable unit are sold at market price (buyer paid low price plus a sizable government grant).

thus, everything left are free lunch, they could take anything for granted, why hurry to sell?

The sponsor must be renting units as well. There have been many rentals listed there over the years, i had though condo owners. But now I am not sure.

But no, the harlem PURCHASE market is not particularly strong.

8A is in contract at a 7 figure ask. Market may actually have improved.

We ended up passing on a place here after getting an accepted offer due to pending litigation against the condo board and the developer from one of the unit owners. Turns out there are some construction issues related to improper installation of tension cables in the flooring as well as with the facade.

It's so nice to look at the history of pricing sentiment, and see how it waxes and wanes at exactly the wrong times. The comments from 5 years ago suggest that SOHA 118 was way overpriced. Even as recently as two years ago, there's some disbelief about pricing at SOHA 118. As an owner in this building, I'm glad I ignored such sentiments- those who bought here in 2008(me) and 2009 have done remarkably well.