Beacon Towers in Harlem (W. 138th & 5th) - Any thoughts?

Make sure to add a clause to your contract stating that you can get your down payment back in case you can't secure financing. Many banks won't give a loan if the building is not 50% sold at the very least (and generally require 70% of units to be sold before approving the loan). I live on West 131st and 5th and like the neighborhood. It's changing very quickly (more amenities, more restaurants, more stores), and I think that Harlem has a nice neighborhood feel. It's the last remaining "real" neighborhood in Manhattan.

Recently I spent an afternoon walking from 135th and Lenox to St. Nichols Avenue, and then rounding back along 136th to Lenox and then back across 137th, etc. My self-guided walking tour ended at 139th and 5th Avenue outside a building where Billie Holiday lived. It felt really safe to be out during the day, but there was a noticeable change on the block of 139th between Lenox and 5th Avenue. I think on that block in particular is a lot of low income housing, and it did seem more rundown than all the other blocks I walked through. There's a small park at the NW corner of 139th and 5th Ave. with a lot of activity. Also there is major construction activity on Lenox for Harlem Hospital. That's a block away from the building you are considering, and the construction project looked large from the area that was blocked off. I don't know the scale of the project, but I would definitely investigate that in regards to construction noise, relationship of what they are building to the proximity of the building you are considering buying in, etc.

I didn't walk over to the river, was too spent, but was curious what the scene was like there.

I used to lived in 1st Avenue near NYU and Bellevue hospitals, and since I'm a walker and love the river, I would try to access the river from where I lived in the 30s and it was extremely creepy to be out behind those hospitals alone walking.

Since you are planning for a family, definitely check out the nearby playgrounds.

Good luck! I am planning more self-guided walking tours of Harlem, I love the history of the place and have a strong desire to experience Harlem.

Oh and I think there are a lot of "real" neighborhoods in Manhattan, it's all perspective.

Valldejuli thanks for your post. It will be great if you continue letting us know what you see during your walks. Maybe you can start a thread with your "walking reports"

mmarquez, two things. that is a really small space for more than one child. but everyone has their own space/tolerance levels.

more importantly, that unit doesn't seem that cheap to me. i'm starting to see non-income constrained units listed for less than $500 psf, and i would be surprised if prices don't keep falling.

there was an interesting article recently on the excess supply of housing available under the low and moderate-income programs. deals have been falling through, buyers have not been able to get financing, even for these very low-priced properties. i would think that there will be more options soon.

either way, good luck.

Thanks for your responses

marvyboy - Halstead realty (who is representing the building) is working with specific agents in two larger banks to provide mortgages. So they are certainly aware of the situation of the building, but I will definitely look into that mortgage clause to the contract.

Valldejuli - They are making a very large addition to Harlem Hospital
http://www.nyc.gov/html/hhc/html/pressroom/press-release-20040420.shtml.
Not sure when it should be finished but it would bring more business and workers to the community which I would certainly consider a good thing. We have not hear any construction noise the 3 times we've visited. Part of 139th is the Beacon Mews which is the rental portion of the project. I agree that 139th does not look as nice as 138th, though it has a very convenient bus route.

An additional aspect of this location is that whether I end up working in manhattan, NJ, LI, or CT I think that I could get a reasonable commute between metro-north,subways, or if I have to drive over the GWB

aboutready - This is priced at $375 / sq ft which is well below $500 /sq ft. I have not seen any prices like this anywhere in manhattan regardless of location that does not have sever income restrictions (such as <110K). We aren't buying to make a large profit if we eventually move (although a tidy profit would be nice), and I don't think that the $190K restriction (actually its 250% of median income) on the resell would be too hard to overcome if the economy rebounds in the next 5 yrs. If you are aware of any buildings with similar prices , please let me know. As for 850 sq. ft. - I don't really think its an option for us to get something larger at this point, but that is because I have not seen anything similarly priced.

mmarquez, there have been a couple of threads on the pricing issues in central Harlem. my point is that i think there is the potential for a fair amount of downward pressure, and this is a very small apartment for a family, so i personally would wait and try to spend the same amount for at least 20% more space later.

this, however, is your choice, and if you are comfortable with it, then good for you!!

this is what i am talking about. i realize it is income restricted, and not brand new construction. i am instead listing it to show what has happened to prices in this neighborhood, and that there is a huge amount of room for downward momentum.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/408027-coop-239-west-148th-street-central-harlem-new-york

06/03/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $120,450.
08/28/2008 Previously Listed in StreetEasy by Prudential Elliman at $390,000.
02/19/2009 Prudential Elliman Listing is no longer available.
05/01/2009 Listed in StreetEasy by Warburg at $379,000.

aboutready - thanks for the info. I am fairly new to this board but have looked at some of the previous threads regarding the explosion in harlem building prices. That certainly is a huge price jump in a span of less than 4 years. Do you have any suggestions on a good way to monitor the overall trend of harlem apartment prices?

here's a search that could be helpful:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sales/central-harlem-manhattan/ppsf%3A-500%7Cprice_changed%3C7

it only looks for apartments in central harlem, at less than $500 psf. i know you're looking at lower, but this will give you a better sense of where things might be headed generally. i also added a restriction, only properties where prices have changed in the last week. you should try running it weekly (you can, obviously modify it), as well as following at the same time new listings for your area that have come up in the past week. i've been seeing movement in prices, but i feel there is more to come. once again, good luck.

Ah so you know about the Harlem Hospital, good, but think about this, where will the ER be? What will be the routes of the ambulances that go to the hospital? That type of noise is never ending. I lived around the corner from a firehouse for many years, and never ever again. It's mind boggling how much noise emergency vehicles make when you live very near their base of operations. Something to consider.

mimi, I'm happy to chime in about my experiences in a neighborhood if I feel I have something to contribute. Will definitely post more about Harlem since I have several more areas to explore in Harlem on foot.

aboutready - thanks for the search. i'm considering looking more but now I"m getting worried about these mortgage rates going back up.

Valldejuli - good point on the noise. I'll definitely look into that.

let the rates go up and the prices go down. as long as the monthly cost is the same you're better off with higher rates and lower prices as long as you're comfortable that you're in it for the long term. higher rates could make it more difficult to sell, however, so if you have any potential pitfalls best to avoid altogether.

keep looking but don't fall in love until it makes sense.

mmarquez110, I think you should at the very least compare the terms and structure of Beacon with other recent affordable-housing ownership opportunities in Harlem. I'm surprised Beacon is coop and not condo, and also the very substantial City profit-payback element -- which could really hurt you in the likely event that you decide to move sooner than you'd imagine (because of family issues, moving for work, etc.).

I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast, but for instructional purposes on what the terms and structure used to be, so you can consider what burdens you're taking on with the income-restriction (as high as it seems): My (former) condo, opened in 2001, had no subsequent income restrictions, no profit-splitting with either the City or the condo, no minimum holding period, and only a phase-out repayment of a $33,000 affordable housing grant repayable to the City (not based on resale price). The only ongoing restriction (unenforced anyway) was primary-owner-occupancy. I would be hesitant to take on anything more burdensome, unless it's a major discount (60-75%) from market prices.

Also, is the $195K income cap a multiple of median income that adjusts in future years. Assuming Harlem thrives but income inflation visits us, that will be very important. It's hard to predict far into the future, so flexibility is a must.

alanhart - i believe that the income cap adjusts in future years, it is 250% of median income. Sounds like you had a great deal, but surely the market in Harlem was much different place 2001? If you know of any similar deals please let me know.

AR - the monthly payments will be our main concern for the first year, but will be easier once I get a better job (which will happen assuming the economy does not tank further). So you do make a good point.

In general does there seem to be a problem with people selling HDFC or other income restricted places due to the income limitations? I do not have any firsthand knowledge of anyone who has ever owned an income-restricted apartment.

I have been searching the Harlem market both as a hobby and for a friend. My friend entered the lottery prior to the prices being announced for Beacon Towers. She was selected, but when we looked at the apartment sizes (usable not gross sq ft as they cite on their marketing materials), the cost, and the location from multiple subway lines, she was quick to decline.

I see one unit on the Halstead site listed for $330k, and it seems to be about 675 sq ft. based on the floor plan (other units in this price range seem to be close to the same size). This is approaching the $500 sq ft range for a very generic looking apartment.I think if this apartment was more centrally located I might have less of an issue with the pricing considering the amentities.

If you find that having a doorman, gym, and parking with your building this might be the right choice for some. For myself, as well as the friend I am doing the search for- a much larger apartment for a better price in a more central location is far more important than some luxury features.

Also with any new building- you should account for large increases in maintenance/common charges within the first couple of years.

Semerun- thanks for the input. For us, the amenities are very enticing, as we have absolutely none of them in our current apartment. Regarding square footage: is it not the norm for listings to list total square feet and not usable? Likewise when ppl talk about it on this board, are they typically referring to usable sq.ft?

mmarquez, no, actually, conventions vary widely and have changed greatly in terms of sf figures. your example is very small for the stated size. spend an hour or so looking at floor plans and you'll see what we mean. it's not just a usable vs. non-usable issue, but it's complicated and would take a long time to explain. so have a look, just remember that brokers are frequently not honest, so it takes awhile to get a sense of this. start with condos.

"just remember that brokers are frequently not honest"

Its the developers too.

yes, of course you're right. but the developers are dishonest via formula, not mere guess. they've added common space, etc., but because condos have always had to give numbers, it is very easy to take a look at an old condo floorplan and a new one and tell the difference. doesn't make it right, and their formulas are not consistent, but it is different than a unit being listed at 1400sf and then being relisted at 1600sf.

As to that point of developers and sq ft- when I first saw my new construction condo- it was advertised at more than 1,400 sq ft. (by a realtor)- which is true if you include gross (non-usable) square feet as well as common area space allocated to the unit. If you exclude that common area space in the calculations- it comes to more than 1,100 sq ft (still gross sq ft). The usable sq ft is more than 950. I was actually looking for something in the 900-1,000 usable sq ft range- so everything worked out for me-regardless of how it was marketed.

So while a realtor or developer can use any of these calculations- which is most relevant to everyday life? That's why buyers are most interested in usable square feet (unless they don't know the difference in the calculation variations).

mmarquez110, have you been on the lookout for resales in The Langston (145th and Bradhurst) or that other newer construction on 145th by the Pathmark? It's pretty close to the A/C/B/D trains. I believe they have similiar amenitites and restrictions (although not entirely sure) as Beacon Towers- but are located in a more central location. You also have the 3 train in one direction and the 1 train in the other. I think the new shopping center just over the 145th st bridge in the Bronx is ready to open (With Target, BJ's, etc) in the next couple of months. I am not crazy about the proximity to the projects in that area- but it might also meet your search requirements.

The Home Depot already opened in that mall. But they're asking $2 for parking. Forget it.

Semrun - The Langston looks nice but we're looking for a 2 bedroom no more than $400,000 I'm not seeing any listings even close to that in the Langston. I am not familiar with the construction on 145th near the Pathmark, do you have any listings for it? Thanks.

mmarquez -- why is the maintenance so high on a brand new building? For the 2beds it was generally about $700 and for larger 2 beds it was around $800.

The building staff, including the doorman, must all be new. But doormen and some other staffers are union labor, so their salaries will go up steadily each year, which will cause maintenance charges to rise too.

It would be different if the building were starting in year one with relatively low maitenance, but it's starting our relatively high.

I've been studying the market in Harlem and I think that 1) It got froze -totally- more so than other areas. 2) It stayed frozen longer than the rest, maybe giving the impression that the prices were "holding." 3) It just started to move, and it's showing deep cuts 4) Is up for a correction that will show during the next year.

The reason that the the gap in prices between UWS and Harlem diminished in the last 4 months is that things started moving earlier and faster there. Harlem moved more glacially. There is less wealth, less credit, less risk appetite everywhere. There are enticing prices uptown and downtown (a very nice townhouse house went for 2m last week) and these places offer a safer investment. Harlem couldn't hold the prices better than them, there is not rationale for such a thing.

Many houses in Harlem are taken off the market because the owner, that bought for say 600, has a 1.2m mortgage + interest = owes 1.4m. The house is due for a correction, at 1m. at least. But this person can't sell at that price. So she tries to renegotiate with the bank. We are waiting for an endgame debtor-creditor and this takes some time.

Other things to consider: condo glut, wide inventories, if you need to rent out one day, the return is ridiculous.

I think that 300% in 5 years is a nonsense that needs to redeem itself somehow, under the light of what has happened to the world. In fact, it is the literal example of why has this happen. And for the buyers, nobody loves to buy in a downturn for 1.5 something that sold in 2005 at 500k. If it ends up selling at 200 % profit in 5 years, isn't this still a little out of line with all the global wealth that has gone into a black hole? Is the economy really so abstract that loss is kinda not loss anymore? Is money so cheap?

The building I couldn't remember the name of was The Hamilton http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/330-west-145-street-manhattan

I realize the units for sale are listed above your parameters- but keep your eye open on this building and at the Langston, you never know what might pop-up.

GraffitiGrammarian - Is that abnormally high for a new building with 2 elevators, exercise equipment, video intercoms, common space, etc. There's only about 50 units in the building, maybe that is why?

semerun - hamilton looks really nice, I'll a eye on it.

alanhart - $2 parking at home depot? Thats utterly ridiculous - I would just keep driving up to one of them in Westchester.

mimi - this just sounds like the inevitable result of what happens when everyone assumes housing prices can only go up, and then everyone else makes bets on that. i'm just glad I don't own any property right now.

I'm having some trouble trying to determine if the prices in the Beacon Towers will drop much further since it is a new building. Obviously the developer wants to sell asap because they need enough units sold before people can move in, and the longer they wait, the longer their $$ is tied up, and the higher the likelihood is that people who are already in contract will bail because the wait is too long. I think that 70 or 80% of the Beacon Towers are affordable living (subsidized by HPD) , so the developer is already not going to make much of a profit on them. i also don't think that the luxury apartments are selling that well in the building probably because there are like a 1000 new luxury condos on the harlem area that are priced between $600K and $800K and everyone is waiting for them to drop. Any suggestions?

mimi - did you say a downtown townhouse went for $2mm last week, or a Harlem one.

kspeak, it sold for 2m in Kips Bay: :http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/803404

mmarquez110, was in Harlem today for lunch, and passed by the building you are considering. One thing I like was all the birdsong from the trees across the street from the building, and wow post office next door, I mail a lot of things so that is a huge convenience for me, plus bodegas on 5th Avenue so a quart of milk is not too far away.

The greater context gave me pause though. This is a block where not a lot of people live. There are the towers directly across the street on W. 138th, and there are other apartment buildings in the block. There is also a playground, one possibly two churches, a school on the block. There is a nursing home on the block, and I seriously doubt those residents are going to be out late. Around the corner, heading south on 5th Avenue you have a big apartment complex with a fence around its border, very green, lots of tree, but essentially closed off, and then across 5th from those building the Department of Health which will also be closed at night.

I didn't walk to 139th and 5th, lacked time, but you know, as a woman, coming home late at night by myself, this block isn't really ideal for me. I'd be worried about my safety, the lack of people around. Too quiet in a sense, not enough traffic. It doesn't specifically bother me that the Madison Avenue Bridge offramp is at 138th and 5th Avenue, but given this isn't such a lively block at night it does add to my concerns of safety. It's just another notch against the block, not a showstopper, if that makes sense.

5th Avenue is a two way street at 138th, so I bet the ambulances will be rollin' down it to Harlem Hospital, and you are in the 2nd building in from the corner, and the USPS building is pretty narrow, big sidewalks out front, so I suspect lots of exposure to noise from 5th.

I don't mean to be a downer, just wanted to share my impressions as a person who navigates the city alone frequently, woman, always concerned for my safety.

Another thing I liked seeing in the immediate area specifically the block of W. 138th between Lenox and Adam Clayton Powell is the Abyssinian Baptist Church which is a huge, historic place of worship in Harlem. The church's leader, Rev. Calvin Butts, is also the chairman of a non-profit that is deeply involved in community development in Harlem. On W. 138th b/t Lenox and Adam Clayton Powell I saw at least two or three lots being developed by the Abyssinian Development Corp., I assume for housing since that block is part of the historic "Strivers Row."

http://www.abyssinian.org/
http://www.adcorp.org/

"For resale, there is no sale price restriction only an income restriction on the new buyer which will be $195,000 or higher. Also, no profit if sold in the first 3 years. For years 4 - 16, half the profit goes back to the city, and years 16-25 some of the profit is used to pay off the remainder of the subsidized HPD loans. My wife and I are in our late 20s, and we currently rent, and would be able to move within a month's notice. We are interested in living here for awhile. We plan on having kids,feel that this would be a good investment, and that there is a very good chance the property values would rise within 5 years."

My only hesitation would be that it's not REALLY yours to buy and sell (and own the profits) free and clear for at least 25 years!

That said, if you're REALLY sure you want to commit to this neighborhood, it does look like a great place. No way would you be able to come close to buying that amount of space, with those amenities, even in Brooklyn or Queens.

Good luck!

Hi Valldejuli, thanks for your description of the neighborhood. Safety is definitely a concern of mine, although I think I'm somewhat paranoid, having grown up in the 'burbs. I think that the neighborhood will become more populated in next couple of years. Once Beacon Towers and Beacon Mews are inhabited that will mean an extra 200 or so people living in the near vicinity. Also the expansion of the hospital will bring more people.

Thanks for the info on Striver's row, I was not too familiar with it, or the fact the Billie Holiday used to live a block away.

You're welcome. You are correct that more people will flood the area as people move into the new buildings something I had not even considered. We will never know how many years it will take for that micro area of the neighborhood to get into your ideal state of living, but it sounds like you and your wife are young and willing to commit for the long-term and live in an area that is transitioning. Hey, this is NYC, what neighborhood is NOT in transition? HA! They all are.

When I was young, I lived in a fringe area of San Francisco and didn't regret it all. Now that I'm an old lady I don't want to be battling pimps, hos, drug dealers, crazy and homeless people, but where I was today I didn't even see any of those elements which is a very good thing.

-NYCMatt I'm glad to hear we have similar feelings about the great deal on the space and amenities. I suppose the question of the neighborhood is the reason why this building even exists. We're not really looking to make a profit - just to get some equity and to stop spending all of our money on rent.

-Valldejuli I think that we're probably going to go for it. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Just make sure you love -- really LOVE -- the neighborhood. Don't forget to visit it and walk around at night, too. Buying into these "affordable" buildings is an even bigger commitment than buying a market-rate, given the restrictions and residency requirements.

You also have restrictions on renting them out if you have hard times.

A few comments:

1) Given the restrictions on selling (because it's affordable) housing, make sure it's truly a place you can be in for a long time.
- You mention having kids - is 850 square feet enough space? Definitely for one kid, but two? What is your realistic time frame for this place? Have you evaluated schools in the areas (note that Harlem south of 123rd and west of 5th is zoned for District 3 which has better options on the whole than District 5, which that area is zoned for I believe). There are some great charter schools options, and pockets of Harlem have pretty good public schools now, but it's good to check out your options.
- Be careful with the concept of "building equity." The reality is, without appreciation (which I would not count on in the near term, and the affordable housing will restrict you anyway), you don't build much equity in the first 5 years of a mortgage. You are paying mostly interest at first. Even after 10 years, most people are surprised how little "equity" there is.

2) Given that there are already a decent number of listings in this part of Harlem (and actually parts of Harlem considered "better") for less 500 psf - and this is asking nearly $400 psf - ask if the restrictions worth it? If you wait a year or two, might you be able to get this without affordable housing restrictions.. this means more flexiblity, and, when you want to sell, if the market has turned, you get the upside. I think it's reasonably likely that they'll be listings in Harlem for $400 psf in a year - simply because of the condo glut and the glacial pace of transactions. I grant this building has some attractive "ammenities" but most people find they use these less than they think.

3) I don't think Harlem per se is a bad idea. I like the neighbhorhood and monitor it myself (will likely be a buyer up there at some point). Just make sure you think through timing carefully, as well as the specific part of Harlem you are buying in. Most people I talk to think that the either the area South of 125th Street (close to central park, lots of subway options, proximity to UES and UWS) or West Harlem (Columbia expansion, the emerging restaurant row, new Hudson river park) has better long-term fundamentals than this specific section (although I do think 5th avenue just North of 125th Street is pretty nice, less so when you get much past the mid 130s)

Good luck!

If I am not mistaken, this building is developed by the Abyssinian Development Corporation.
You should check them out -- there has been a fair amount of negative publicity about them -- documented in NYT and other mainstream pubs

# 3 above from kspeak is true.

Good luck, mmarquez110! If you do buy in the neighborhood, you'll like this map: http://www.ephemerapress.com/harlemmap.html and Steven Watson's book about the Harlem Renaissance which you can buy at the NYPL Schomburg Center's gift shop at Lenox and 135th St.

joedavis, I tried to find a link between the Abyssinian and Beacon Tower, but was unsuccessful. There is a mention of a construction company, Strategic Development & Construction Group (Brooklyn), in the pdf that describes the affordable units:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/downloads/pdf/Beacon-towers-apts.pdf

I want to get some more opinions on Beacon Towers at 29 w. 138th. St. between Lenox and 5th ave. I'm ok with the neighborhood and location, and believe it will improve in the coming years.

I looked at a brand-new 2 bedroom, with a full bath, and a second bath/showerstall. There also is a private terrace which is roughly 10 x 25. The interior space is around 900 sq ft. Maintenance is currently at $800/month.

As previously mentioned there is a maximum household income limit of 250% AMI (currently at 192K) for owning an affordable unit in the building, and during resell profit must be split with the city. Seller can get no profit for the fist 3, 50% profit for years 3-15, and then a larger share during years 20-25. There's also a 25 year tax abatement which is phased in starting at year 20.

What I want to know, is how much do you think this place is worth, and do you know of any similar buildings or properties in manhattan that are 2bed with outdoor space that can be had for <500K?

Check these out.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/404962-coop-530-grand-street-lower-east-side-new-york

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/393603-coop-345-west-145th-street-central-harlem-new-york

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/365816-condop-330-west-145th-street-hamilton-heights-new-york

Thanks marvyboy for the listings.
I think we'd pass on the LES one - that's not really a location where we would pay more just for location.

345 West 145th Street looks pretty nice and around the price range we're looking for. Still, the maintenance is pretty steep - and there's no private terrace or W/D. But I do like the low 5% flip tax

and 330 West 145th Street #PH5, I mean wow, that place is gorgeous with an amazing terrace. We would need them to come down at least another 80K so that we could afford the high maintenance. They've already reduced it 100K since november. I doubt that is even realistic.

The Hamilton is also a Cond-Op (the penthouse unit listed by Marvyboy)...The maintenance is 33% tax deductible- so that might help a bit on the affordibilty aspect. This unit has also been on the market for a long time- and since they probably bought when the building was brand new before the area started changing- they might have a lot of flexibility on the price- so perhaps that additional 80k chop on the price could be reasonable. I don't know what these sold for when they were brand new- but I am guessing a penthouse market rate unit like this could have been under 300k. Perhaps Propertyshark.com has the original sales prices on this building.

As was recently discussed, both on this board and in the NY Times, nearly new construction resales can be more attractive because the new construction problems have often been worked out, the common charges/maintenance pricing levels are aligned with reality, uncertainty regarding percentage of units sold/closed is gone, etc.

We looked at these apartments and felt that going the affordable apartment route wasn't worth all the restrictions - the regular prices weren't all that different at the time so we considered those apts instead - it seems they've dropped the affordable apt prices since we looked a couple of months ago though. I would look into negotiating one of the luxury apartments down in price. They have cabanas/outdoor space and no restrictions. I worry though about buying condos in buildings that are having a hard time selling because of the foreclosure madness. I don't know much about it but I would want to know a lot about the sponsor's financials. My only other comment on the building is that I didn't feel the quality of the materials they used was very high and that may be hard to re-sell in years to come if you do ever decide to move.

vacircabrown - thanks for your input.

We are ending up with an affordable unit that has a terrace you can enter from your bedroom. Personally we feel that this is worth a lot more than one of the cabanas which can not be entered directly from the apt. We also were able to get a discount off of the listed price.

The building is actually a co-op and is subsidized by HPD and HDC. My feeling is that since these depts. are involved there is a reduced chance that the sponsor will go leaving us in a terrible position.

I don't know what to say about the quality of the materials. We looked at the building with relatives who have owned multiple apartments and/or houses but no one mentioned anything.Is there anything specific that you noticed?

Can I ask which floor your unit is on? We were told that none of the affordable units had terraces. How much of a discount did they give you?

Hi Patri, I'm not in a position to say too much about our deal. There may have only been a couple affordable units with a terrace. I couldn't say whether or not there are any remaining. They're clearly looking for people to purchase since they need 75% of the units bought in order to close. You may be able to negotiate them down.

My understanding was that floors 2 thru 6 were affordable units and there are no terraces on those floors. You can see in the floor plans on their site. Floors 1, 7 and 8 are market rate and have terraces/outdoor spaces. Maybe some of the units on those floors have been changed to affordable?

I couldn't really say which affordable they were before or are still available. I don't think the units listed on Halstead or Streeteasy reflect the availability. It does look like the market rate ones have come down considerably - even for ones with cabanas, if you can afford it. If you're still interested in the building you should just put an offer on the table. It can't hurt, even if they flat out reject it.

mmarquez110, where did you end up buying?

We ended up purchasing near Striver's Row. Beacon's timeline didn't work for us.
Last I heard they declared their offering plan effective.

mmarquez110 I would like to communicate with you privately. Let me know if this is possible.

mmarquez, my boyfriend and I are considering purchasing in Beacon Towers. see my post here:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/18178-2-bedroom-apartment-in-harlem

it seems like we are in a similar position as you and your wife. which building did you end up purchasing in? Maybe you can help us gain some perspective on the 2 bedroom scene in Harlem.

i saw it - will respond on other thread

mmarquez110 My name was picked from the lottery of E.118th Affordables which is also called Embelesar 118. I am now awating approval from HDC. Does anybody know if I can offer a lower price than what it is listed for. My understading is the whole program is "AS IS", the price of the apartment is fixed and there are a slew of criteria to be met before one can purchase. Any pointers and tips will be most apprecisted.

congrats Mfont! offering doesn't hurt imho. many lottery winners are not taking on the offer cause it's not as good of a deal as once was. so by now they might be more open towards considering discounts (check whether they are already cutting prices with mkt rate units).

I don't think the market rate apartments are being marketed as of date. The building is almost finished and I believe occupancy will be this summer. I think one great thing about this dev. is the new Hunter College is being built across it. It is just that, Im a first time homebuyer and I would love to get so much knowledgeable information about this program and its processes. I just don't want to rely on whats being explained by the agents. So Im hoping that there are people out there who experienced this and would be kind enough to share. Thank you all.

mmarquez, I just saw your email. Thanks so much for your response!

Mfont- have you figured out if you can negotiate on the "affordable" units at embelasar? I, too, have had my name pulled, but I really can't afford the affordable prices.

Mfont - sorry I never got back to you on this. I've been on SE less and less recently and didn't see it. we visited Beacon towers nearly a year ago, well after the lottery so I don't have too much information on the process. I would guess that it is instituted through HPD/HDC so they may not have much leeway in lowering the prices. i would imagine a similar thing for Embelesar.

By the time we went to Beacon they were kind of desperate as they had very little sold but reluctant to drop the prices any further on the affordable rate, although they were offering to pay some maintenance and the transfer taxes. The prices on the market rates were much more flexible and almost reasonable, who knows where they would have gone with negotiating. I was repeatedly told that the developer could not lower the affordable units as much as they would like to bc of the city .

The prices on the affordables at Beacon would have been ok at peak, but once things dropped 20%, not so much. The main reason we're not living at Beacon was because they could not guarantee a closing by Jan 1st which was necessary for our living situation. I think they told us March or May they would be willing to guarantee in writing or we could walk away. I walked by Beacon a few weeks ago and it did not appear that anyone was living there, although I've heard that the OP was declared effective a couple of months ago.

You definitely want to take into account your current living situation in these decisions, specifically how long you can stay there and if you have to break a lease, etc. I have an email from Beacon's lawyer from August stating they would be confident in closing well before Jan 1st 2010. Looks like we made the right choice on this one.