The BEHOLDER's RENOVATION THREAD

I think we should try to keep it in "Q & A" format until it evolves. Or collapses.

beholder, is this for general info, not related to a particular project, or are you undertaking renovations currently?

I just finished with my own and elated about it being over. Other project(s) are in progress but they are not personal. I just find the process, from making a decision to execution, exciting and beautiful.

i agree. why don't you start by describing what you just completed?

Q: How would you describe the renovation that you just completed?
A: ...

What are you working on/contemplating/needing advice with? What's your experience with reno's?

Here's my little construction bio... I'm an engineer. In the early 90's I bought 5 acres of forest in the foothills of the rockies in western Canada, cleared the building site and built a 4500 sf custom log home using large douglas fir logs, all hand peeled and fit together with full scribe Scandinavian saddle notches. I participated in the log building but mostly left it to the pro's. I did everything else from foundation to interior/exterior finishing plumbing, electrical. Since then I have reno'd every home I have bought from top to bottom by myself (and spouse, of course). I kissed the rat race goodbye a few years ago and did it full time which led in to building custom furniture. At the end I did a professional office - desks, bookcases, cabinets, etc. in solid cherry. I've done a lot of tile, paint, electrical, plumbing, wood floors etc etc. Everything really. I didn't enjoy doing it for other people so much. Just closed on an apartment on the UWS that needs a lot of work. I'm chomping at the bit. Still have my chainsaw. Anybody need a tree cut down?

A: total gut of 1300sqf 1-bed, 1 bath that was not touched since the '40s. Promise to give total recoup later today (have to work!)

spin, i need lots of trees cut down. but they're quite a bit north of manhattan!

Where'd you find a 1300sf 1BR that was built before the 1940s?

Briefly: design from empty dilapidated raw space to glorious finished beauty with furniture and window treatments in place.
Talk to you later!
I'm enjoying it.

Let me loose and you might end up with Greenpeace on your doorstep.

Spin,

When you renovate don't forget to leave room for the 'bull pen'.

just kidding with you!

We'll be here beholder, anxiously awaiting your tale. It already sounds wicked. Nothing gets my blood going like a killer space in the rough. The opportunities for creative expression are endless.

spin, then you'll like my plans to turn a horse barn into a poolhouse. but i'm not going to be ready for that for a year or two.

Not an experienced renovator, but have a Q and couldn't resist trying to tap the accumulated expertise! Apologies for the (attempted) hijack. We are very interested in a property (brownstone) that has decorative fireplaces. But for me, working fireplaces are a must. How difficult is it and what does it cost to make non-working FPs functional? We checked out the chimneys on the roof, and they seem in order. It looks to me like they were originally gas, not woodburning (consistent with the age of the house as well). If we wanted to bring a professional to give us an estimate on that, should it be a plumber, contractor, who? Many thanks -- I don't post but enjoy reading. Congrats to the folks who recently bought and look forward to the tales of renovations past and future.

You're welcome here mommyesq. Think about creating a new subject thread next time so it doesn't get lost in beholder's dust and debris.

Please take what I say as novice opinion. Chimney's are a major source of catastrophic home fires and many chimneys are not properly maintained and serviced. I suspect cost of repair coupled by increased cost of insurance becomes prohibitive.

Creosote build-up from years of use can create fire hazard, that's why chimneys should be regularly cleaned. The more serious problem rests with the actual structure and the lining itself, where structural cracks over time are inevitable. A couple of solutions have been developed to deal with the problem. One is accomplished by replacing the fireplace with an airtight insert. For this, a new airtight firebox is inserted into the existing fireplace opening and two flexible flues are inserted into the chimney and connected to the new firebox; one tube is for fresh air intake and one for exhaust gas. It makes an extremely efficient fireplace, much like a wood stove. The other solution is to replace the lining of the chimney by inserting a long inflatable bladder down the chimney and then pouring cement in the space between the bladder and the existing lining. When it dries the tube is deflated leaving a new lining. I would expect a good contractor to use a camera to inspect damage and develop a solution.

mommyesq: many fireplaces in brownstones were never woodburning. One thing to think about when converting to woodburning is that some detail (tiling/iron backing) may be lost. If you are interested in converting to wb, consider that I paid 25k to have 4 converted along the same back wall, because it cost 20k to do just one. You may be able to get it for cheaper if you shop around in Brooklyn for an old-timer specialist.

P.S. - I didn't do much research into this and let the GC go with the new firebox approach. Also consider whether you would really use a fireplace. We have never used ours.

Many thanks for the input on the FPs. You all are a great resource. nyc10023, I swear I would use them, although I know many people in your position. We had two in our old place, and have three in a beach house. Somehow nothing says home to me like lighting something on fire . . .

OK, here I am as promised. And I have to ask everybody to keep in mind that there's no accounting for taste. Mine happens to be minimalistic.
Details: a great space rotting away. High floor pre-war huge 1-bed, both living room and bedroom on the grand size. 16 windows all together.
What I did:
restore the kitchen/living room wall, creating very long and light windowed eat-in;
took off the recessed ceilings all over, therefore getting 11' ceilings;
took off all stinky ancient plaster and discovered gorgeous terracota bricks that I kept exposed;
increased the height of ALL door frames; put new metal door frames, left unpainted;
many storage-related things were done to the walls but that's one of my trade secrets;
bathroom: gutted, all new plumbing, with walk-in small shower and oversized medicine cabinet and mirrors; all done in monochrome (material is secret);
kitchen: gutted; bright color new appliances (red and yellow); stone countertop; floor the ssame as bathroom (meaning secret, sorry);
refinished all wood floors with dark stain and semi-gloss.
The whole scheme is stone-metal-wood; nothing breakable or unstable. Oversized pieces of furniture. Calm and serenity.

I prefer plaster to exposed bricks. Having 8' doors is fantastic - really "lifts" rooms. I'm into hidden appliances (with matching panel covers). My guess is a non-veiny limestone. I like dark wood floors with no gloss.

Limestone — no, for many reasons, but one should be enough: it's slippery like hell. Tell you what, 10023, if you are ever in the mood to talk about it off the boards...
Also, I'm not a huge fan of exposed brick but this one is very unususal (12"x9", ribbed and the color of peach and salmon). It was beautiful on its own, and with north/east exposure, it looks amazing.
Appliances: bright red fridge, muted golden stove. Cabinets natural dark wood, overlay; cut glass knobs. Vaguely '50s look that I love for KITCHENS ONLY.
The main thing was the co-op laws, 9 to 4pm, etc.

10023, only some of the walls are left with exposed brick. The rest are stone.

I have a question. What kind of paint can you use while pregnant?

sorry. i think i'm confused about the Q&A aspect of this thread. that's what happens when you don't read thoroughly ;)

usmom: the standards for interior paints are all pretty strict. Don't use oil-based (but you wouldn't anyway, right?), any water-based is good.

Benjamin Moore just came out with a no-VOC paint, Natura.

I'm sorry to say but I think it's a marketing gimmick on BM's side. All water-based paints have little or no VOC.

10023, how big is your kitchen?

I never looked at the specs, but by my nose - BM's Aura line smells less than the regular BM.
Kitchen area is 12 X 18, one corner open to LR.

It's the pigments. They are better and better, even the non-BM that can be added to anything, including a sealer or lacquer. New pigments are liquid and non-smelling/toxic. Isn't that something. I love the German pigments. A few drops into anything, from cement to wax, and it's a new world. Even metallics are great.

Sorry, missed your answer about the kitchen. Mine is smaller, but I don't cook my fridge is a Smeg, and so is the stove. I also had a diner booth made, modified of course, with movable benches and much much smaller backs.

Sorry, missed your answer about the kitchen. Mine is smaller, but I don't cook my fridge is a Smeg, and so is the stove. I also had a diner booth made, modified of course, with movable benches and much much smaller backs.

Beholder: http://www.john-lewis.co.uk/kitchen-creme-de-la-creme-1.php

I saw this kitchen in the flesh 4 years ago, and I've never forgotten it. In a semi-open kitchen like mine, the LR would have to be just as funky to make it work.

The original: http://retrorenovation.com/2008/02/01/vintage-english-rose-metal-kitchen-cabinets-from-spitfires-to-luxe-to-salvage-and-back-again/

Creme de la Creme is very very cute, and I've done a similar one for a client but I'm not big on cute. And the floors... checkered... Also, metal cabinets are very much not my thing. Again, no accounting for the taste, and I see how these kitchens can be absolutely fabulous.

I saw a bathroom once, about 8 years ago, that I can't get out of my head. First, it's about 700sqf. Should I go on?

I copied my current kitchen from another UK source - http://www.johnlewis.com/jl_assets/pdf/kitchens/integrale.pdf. My cabinetmaker did a fantastic job replicating at a great price. My upper cabs are glassed.

Do go on about the bathroom - a link would be great.

re; Fireplaces,
As far as I know, the only way to really bring them to 'code" is to insert terra cotta liners. This can not be done from the roof: you must open up the walls all the way from where your firebox is and go to every floor above and open the walls all the way up to the roof to insert these liners. I'm assuming this is why nyc10023 paid 25,000 for 4 vs. 20,000 for 1. now, a lot of places have dropped in various sorts of liners, from lead liners to the poured concrete/bladder method described by spinnaker1. But as far as I know (unless the code had changed) the only "legal" way is going thru all the walls.

Secondly, if the original fireplaces were gas, odds are the firebox is way too shallow to convert to woodburning without a LOT of work. But my question would be, since gas fireplaces have been made legal, why would you just have gas fireplaces? They are MUCH easier to use, require MUCH less venting, don't need nearly the amount of cleaning and have virtually no creosote build-up, etc.

My cabinets are the same color and almost the same design! Warm and woody, I love it.
About that bathroom: there is no link, it's a private triplex on CPW that I was involved with. If the owner knew I mentioned it, he'd have a fit.
Bathroom: 700sqf of modified grey clay. Everything is clay except for a 14" showerhead and metal toilet and sink. Sounds harsh but the reality is absolutely beautiful.
So I did my bathroom with that one in mind. Guests tend to rub their cheeks on the walls...

I'm really curious about beholder's blgd - doesn't sound like anything I've ever seen in Manhattan.

Yep. You know, this is one of the rare occasions where I bought into the whole "good for resale" mantra. That, and we didn't make any crazy design decisions. People love the mystique of a wb fireplace. Not me. I think you all know that I'm lazy when it comes to cleaning...

Beholder: my bath cabs & kitchen cabs are the same. Still loving the look. Had to deal with a temperamental but reasonably priced cab-maker...

My bathroom: I forgot built-in bench and storage. All the same material.

mommyesq, are you in a house?

beholder... I think I can see it, although your many secrets leave much to the imagination. 16 freaking windows!!!? You gotta be kidding! What went on with the ceiling again and what did you end up with? Did you have a suspended ceiling before? Never heard of a recessed ceiling. How did you handle the trim on the metal door frames? What material did you use for doors? What's it like keeping dark floors looking good? Been there, love it, but not sure I would do it again.

I'm picturing a bldg built as artist studios or "loft" studios. Ina Gartner, the Barefoot Contessa, lives in such a "studio" on the UES.

spinnaker1: the ceiling were lower in LR and bedroom than in the hall and then lower again in the kitchen and bathrooms. All these different heights made me suspicious, I checked and it turns out that it was the was it was built, for extra insulation probably. They are the real thing, with armature etc. So probably we can call them double ceilings. CONFESSION: it's a penthouse.
So the insulation wasn't a concern in the hall where the ceiling was the highest. So I had all others taken down and there were beautiful beamed ceilings right behind the doubles.
Metal door frames: most pre-wars have metal door frames. I had them stripped (2" of gunk!), sanded and sealed with clear poliuretane. They don't have trims, just their own grooves.
The doors are dark mahogany
Keeping the dark floors looking good: bi-monthly liquid wax. Not different from any other floors I had. These are old oak, so they took much more stain to achieve the dark tint.

"CONFESSION: it's a penthouse."

ok, that explains an awful lot of my confusion. Built the same time as the original building or add-on?

30yrs, the same time.

uwsmom,

buy Farrow and Ball -- it costs a lot to import from Britain (around $80/gal I think) but you get beautiful color, it doesn't have preservatives, and doesn't smell at all.

but I thought you were a renter ...

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Front_porch: I just sent away for the color samples.

Paints with no preservatives at all fade in 1 -1.5 years. Preservatives actually preserve the pigments.

thanks ali. we are renters. location TBD. would like to paint if possible. 1-2 year fade is perfect for us. plus, i love muted tones.

"Preservatives actually preserve the pigments."

What a unique concept. ;)

what a totally great and interesting thread that yet again proves people don't only fight on here. i love those kitchens you linked to nyc10003. they are amazing. now i want to see the bathrooms kind of.

second the farrow and ball, the colors are amazing! they also have beautiful wallpaper as well, just these gorgeous muted colors.

yes, the wallpaper! I knew the name sounded familiar for a reason.

beholder... 16 windows sounds amazing! where did you get the stove? and what kind of stone countertops? i'm a minimalist myself, and would have gone with a varenna kitchen, but your vaguely 50s sounds intriguing...

beholder - another question - did you ever get a confirmation about the ceiling heights before you signed the contract or was it a pleasant surprise based on your gut from seeing the different ceiling heights?

jess, the stove is by Smeg, as is the fridge. The countertop is silestone. Smeg's sprcs are a bit different from the American standards, the refrigerator is about 58" tall, which I find beautiful and convenient. May not wark for everybody though.

jess — I saw the ceiling in the hall whic gave me pretty accurate measurements. So no surprises.

sprcs=specs
wark=work
whic=which

beholder - curious as to timeframe and budget? if you are willing to reveal.... i keep seeing "projects" that i would like to do but my last gut renovation was some time ago...

i love the curves of the smeg fridge, and silly as it may sound, the knobs on the smeg cooktops are just so streamlined - great choices!

given the space was so dilapilated, did you have to replace any windows?

uswmom - the wallpapers really are gorgeous! you'll love their paint colors - when you look at them, there's a chalkiness to them that you just don't see with other brands.

jess - the windows were ok, thanks god. Timeframe - about 6 months but my contractor was a piece of shit, so I pretty much supervised the work myself. Also, I took care of appliances myself, bought them and had the store keep them until I was ready (about 10 weeks).
Smeg had ripped off an Italian design company but with more playful sensibility. I like them a lot.
Price - well... All told about $175K. Ouch.

ouch? getting what you want @ $135/SF (with sweat equity of course)... SWEET! and if your secret material is what I am thinking of... WOW!

My arch. did a complete gut of a 2500 sqft townhouse in Bk, and it cost him 100/sqft with a lot of sweat equity (he did a lot of the physical labor himself). So 135/sqft isn't bad.

The aggravation factor is what gets me riled. I had to re-do a lot, and the quality was sub-par. And the specs were not abided. And so on.

Aggravation - yes, I find that you basically have to be there ALL THE TIME. Re: specs, did you do your own detailed construction documents? Or was that outsourced?

I designed the whole thing, down to the door knobs. So all they had to do is to follow my specs. 10" here and 7" there, and it means a lot. Sometimes it means everything, because things are no longer aligned, and so on.

T0 30 years re: fireplaces: gas would be fine by me, and may turn out to be the way to go. I believe it's more likely given the age of the house that the original intent was gas, and I spotted part of a jet in one. At the moment, they are just decorative. Thanks for the insight!

mommyesq: a friend recently had to deal with the city about the fireplaces. His place is a townhouse in Manhattan Valley; we wanted to re-open 3 fireplaces, and the city got to know and said "no" to 2 of them. Supposedly some thing about air pollution and carbon monoxide.

Hmm -- thanks, beholder, for the word on the city's potential input. (Jeez, as a non-driver, I feel slightly aggrieved about potentially being on the hook for pollution from a fireplace). And thanks for the info about your drool-worthy renovation. Only thing missing is pictures! nyc10023, those kitchens are fabulous, too.

Hmm, I didn't have an issue with the city with 4 fps. The renovation was subject to frequent inspections, and nothing was mentioned. It was definitely in the plans as well.

beholder, try to put them on picasa.